Willow Chase - Theater Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 38 Old 08-06-2017, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Willow Chase - Theater Build

In 2012 we broke ground on our house that took me about 10 years (off and on) to design. The house layout included a space in the basement for a future home theater although I did not help myself out with the oversized steel beam running right through the middle. Between myself and my family we self performed a lot of the work on the house so one the house was complete I decided to take a break to recover physically and financially! The house was finished in late 2013 so guess its time to get going again. Next up... The basement finish and the home theater.

The theater will be approximately 18'X25' with a raw 8'-9" ceiling (7'-7" under the beam). I went ahead and purchased the seating early to mock up the riser height and plan for power. I went with two rows of 5 seats with a full row in the back and a double love seat (left and right) in the front.

I got in touch with John at the Sound Proofing Company early on and put together my sound proofing plan. I can't say enough about the help and information John provided even before I made a purchase which was a major reason why I did purchase from them. Double 5/8" with green glue on the walls and ceilings with hat channel on the ceiling. Two of the four walls are full concrete walls so they will get standard 16"OC framing. The back wall will have the mechanical/storage on the other side so I went with offset stud framing there. The theater entry wall is part foundation wall and part basement, in order to line up the wall with the future basement build out I initially put the offset inside the theater but then decided to frame up inside wall to keep the theater room symmetrical. That part of the room will essentially be a double wall set up with the exception the outside wall was framed with offset studs. All of the framing is decoupled from the foundation walls and floor joists with the IB-3 clips.

The framing is complete at this point and most of the electrical and low voltage is complete but I would welcome any comments good or bad before I get to insulation and sheetrock. I am going to wire for ATMOS 9.2.4 although I have not come across a processor that can handle the 9.2.4 setup. I am posting the layout and will eventually get photos posted to bring this thread up to date with the current state. Baby steps.
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post #2 of 38 Old 08-06-2017, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 38 Old 08-06-2017, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 38 Old 08-06-2017, 02:14 PM
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I would place your front atmos speakers at the recommended 45 degrees in front of the MLP and also the same behind the MLP.
Look at the bottom of the linked page where it show a sideview and angles.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html

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post #5 of 38 Old 08-06-2017, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LydMekk View Post
I would place your front atmos speakers at the recommended 45 degrees in front of the MLP and also the same behind the MLP.
Look at the bottom of the linked page where it show a sideview and angles.

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sp...tup-guide.html
I struggled with the ceiling speaker locations. I could not decide if I should base everything on the front center seat or try and split the difference between the front and back row. I also have the beam and resulting soffits to deal with as well. I think the forward speaker would end up in front of the beam soffit and the back speakers would end in the back soffit. My thought process was to layout per spec and then adjust to actual conditions.
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post #6 of 38 Old 08-06-2017, 04:04 PM
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I struggled with the ceiling speaker locations. I could not decide if I should base everything on the front center seat or try and split the difference between the front and back row. I also have the beam and resulting soffits to deal with as well. I think the forward speaker would end up in front of the beam soffit and the back speakers would end in the back soffit. My thought process was to layout per spec and then adjust to actual conditions.
My room 17'x29 and I prewire 9.2.4 too ,
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post #7 of 38 Old 08-09-2017, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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All of my equipment will be "racked" or shelved in the mechanical room behind the theater. My current plan is to go with 3 - Marantz MM7055 (15 channels total) with a Marantz AV7703 processor unless I can find something that will do a true 9.2.4 ATMOS. Media will be sourced from a combination of Apple TV, satellite, and more than likely a HTPC. I did run a conduit for multiple HDMIs to put a disc player in the back corner of the theater and possibly a game console just to avoid the run around of changing out physical media. The two outlets on the lower left of the layout are dedicated power feeds, one to the Sub power and one to the projector, they will get plugged into the power conditioner and UPS.

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post #8 of 38 Old 08-09-2017, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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My canvas. And my brother and dad getting in on the action.


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post #9 of 38 Old 08-09-2017, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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And the first day of framing...



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post #10 of 38 Old 08-11-2017, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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And the next day of framing.





And framing is done...



At least I thought framing was done... I decided to add an additional wall on the inside of the theater to make the room somewhat symmetrical.


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post #11 of 38 Old 08-11-2017, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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The seating showed up. Apparently down is the new up? No damage so all is well.





Had to try them out to make sure everything felt right, also mocked up riser height to see if it would be OK.

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post #12 of 38 Old 08-23-2017, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ceiling track is all up. I marked my 24" interval on each wall side ceiling joist and then set up my auto leveling laser to locate each clip across the entire ceiling. Between the laser and a set of drywall stilts the entire ceiling took about 3hrs start to finish.



Bosch laser in use. Very handy tool to own!

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post #13 of 38 Old 08-23-2017, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I had to improvise on the backer boxes for the ceiling speakers. The floor joists are doubled up to provide additional support for the granite island above which limited my width in the joist cavity where the left ceiling speakers had to go, I needed about 10-1/2" for the speakers and I had 11-1/2" clear between the joists. I stacked 2" of drywall on the top and double 5/8" all around. They are not decoupled but I figured it was better than nothing.
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post #14 of 38 Old 08-23-2017, 08:02 AM
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Looking good! That's an awesome blank canvas you have to work with. 10 full seats is going to be sweet. Have you figured out what to do with the beam and projector placement? Any ideas on color schemes yet? Are you doing fabric panels on the walls?
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post #15 of 38 Old 08-24-2017, 06:17 AM
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Question for you on the framing against the concrete wall. Not sure if it's important in your part of the country, but I had been told in the past that there is suppose to be some type of barrier between the studs of a wall and the concrete wall, such as some wall foam for insulation, or even tar paper glued to the wall, .. this along with about 1/2" of air gap for undue condensation and such.

Not sure if you all need that, but you may wanna look into it before you get too far.

I completely agree with @javeryh , what a nice blank canvas to work with!! 10 seats! that's great..

One thing i did notice, double check your SR/SL surround speaker placement. I would reference the Dolby Atmos setup guide for correct angles and placement. Looks like they might be too far forward in reference to the front row.

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post #16 of 38 Old 08-24-2017, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking good! That's an awesome blank canvas you have to work with. 10 full seats is going to be sweet. Have you figured out what to do with the beam and projector placement? Any ideas on color schemes yet? Are you doing fabric panels on the walls?
Thank you.

The beam has been a thorn in my side from the layout standpoint. I believe I am close +/-6" but until I purchase a projector purchased and get the room in a place to test it out I am going to have to rely on my "design". Any idea how exact and or critical the minimum throw distance calcs are? The Sony projector I am looking at uses (L=1.205377*D-1.7084) to calculate the minimum throw distance, I assume if they have you subtracting 1.7084" it is fairly critical? I am sure it is the same thing over and over but trying balance the ideal viewing distance, screen size, projector minimum throw and not hitting your head on the projector is a pain. Nothing nailed down on the color scheme but I do plan on incorporating some type of fabric panels just not sure exactly what yet. I have spent some time on your build thread, looks like you are in the home stretch! It's got to feel nice to be that close.
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post #17 of 38 Old 08-24-2017, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Question for you on the framing against the concrete wall. Not sure if it's important in your part of the country, but I had been told in the past that there is suppose to be some type of barrier between the studs of a wall and the concrete wall, such as some wall foam for insulation, or even tar paper glued to the wall, .. this along with about 1/2" of air gap for undue condensation and such.

Not sure if you all need that, but you may wanna look into it before you get too far.

I completely agree with @javeryh , what a nice blank canvas to work with!! 10 seats! that's great..

One thing i did notice, double check your SR/SL surround speaker placement. I would reference the Dolby Atmos setup guide for correct angles and placement. Looks like they might be too far forward in reference to the front row.
I believe it is important especially in our specific area, not just ground moisture but we have also have a lot of ground water. Great for my ground source heat pump field but bad for basements. My sister and brother in-law built a house about 1000' away from me almost 15 years ago and he has replaced his sump pump virtually every 2-3 years because it runs constantly. I took from their experience and went with a walk out basement and went over board on the water proofing and perimeter draining. So far my sump pit that I put in "just in case" has been just that. I never put a pump in but I did put a level sensor in so I wold know if I ever needed to install a pump, so far so good even with raining season we have had this year. Now back to you question... I did leave the framing off of the concrete 1/2" and put down treated lumber on the floor. Depending on which camp you talk to (there appear to be many when it comes to vapor barriers), I should be good with my current plan. I believe the biggest concern is trapping moisture between vapor barriers which I will not be doing. So the thought is the outside wall has a vapor barrier (not just the typical foundation coating but a true water proofing) I will use faced fiberglass insulation on the walls that align with the concrete which will give me a "vapor barrier" (if you believe it) on the inside. Any moisture vapor that does end up between the finished wall and the foundation wall should be able to travel up and though the floor to the rest of the house. Very similar to current conditions minus the temperature gradient of the new theater walls. The basement walls and floor has always been very dry from day one the the humidity level in the basement typically tracks very close to the rest of the house so I feel confident that I won't have any major issues but thank you for your comment/concern.
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post #18 of 38 Old 09-12-2017, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so some progress has been made beside my daughters two different birthday parties one of which was a Chuck E. Cheese event. I survived, barely. Worse part was that we set it up for 10:00am, and although they serve beer it seemed a little too early.

Any way... Insulation is complete! Walls were not bad but as far as the overhead... I could have found several other things that I would have enjoyed more (possibly even Chuck E Cheese), Ok, maybe not.



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Picked up the sheetrock, 90 sheets of 5/8" 4'X10'. Had to make two trips because we could not get the full load back far enough on the trailer. Almost 8,000lbs total but the panel cart made life easier. My brother, brother in-law, and nephew also made life a lot easier.




And done, specifically my brother in-law. Apparently his 2,000lbs share was a little too much, or it could have been the full day of work prior to.

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post #20 of 38 Old 09-12-2017, 10:36 AM
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Your project looks good.
I'm feeling lucky myself i've got direct flat access to the cinema through my garage.
No stairs LOL

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Your project looks good.
I'm feeling lucky myself i've got direct flat access to the cinema through my garage.
No stairs LOL
Enjoy it! I had to fit just about every piece of material through a standard basement window (the low rectangles) because my stairs have two 90 degree turns to navigate - nothing fit!
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post #22 of 38 Old 10-25-2017, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Now its time to get the drywall off of the floor and on the walls/ceiling.







You can never have too much help!


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Riser Height Concern

So the new topic to worry about...

Riser height vs ceiling height vs projector location. I have come across several builds that are similar in size and they build a riser out of 2x12s for the second row. I understand that screen height and viewing distance are part of the formula but I am struggling here. I tried one of the online riser calculators and came up with 5”, obviously input error or misunderstanding. When I try and use my cad program to figure it out I end up with a 24” riser which will not work for my genetics and the ceiling height, not too many in my family under 6 foot tall. I know I can gain an additional 4.5” with a mini riser under the chairs but I am still concerned if it will be enough. I should be able to push the projector back some (plywood backer stops at the 84” mark) to raise the screen bottom but I was trying to avoid breaking the projection with a second row walk-by.

Any thoughts or comparisons?


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post #24 of 38 Old 10-25-2017, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadGV View Post
So the new topic to worry about...

Riser height vs ceiling height vs projector location. I have come across several builds that are similar in size and they build a riser out of 2x12s for the second row. I understand that screen height and viewing distance are part of the formula but I am struggling here. I tried one of the online riser calculators and came up with 5”, obviously input error or misunderstanding. When I try and use my cad program to figure it out I end up with a 24” riser which will not work for my genetics and the ceiling height, not too many in my family under 6 foot tall. I know I can gain an additional 4.5” with a mini riser under the chairs but I am still concerned if it will be enough. I should be able to push the projector back some (plywood backer stops at the 84” mark) to raise the screen bottom but I was trying to avoid breaking the projection with a second row walk-by.

Any thoughts or comparisons?
For the calculators I think a lot of people mess up and don't notice the difference between eye height and top of head height. Generally speaking they should accurate if you know how high your heads will be. I'm not sure what your cad software is assuming for top of head height, eye height, and how high the bottom of the screen are, which are important along with how far back the rows are.

Also for your projector, you mentioned trying to get it within the critical distances, but did you also consider the amount of vertical shifting that it is capable of? Are you for sure within those ranges?

Project is looking good!
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post #25 of 38 Old 10-26-2017, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadGV View Post
So the new topic to worry about...

Riser height vs ceiling height vs projector location. I have come across several builds that are similar in size and they build a riser out of 2x12s for the second row. I understand that screen height and viewing distance are part of the formula but I am struggling here. I tried one of the online riser calculators and came up with 5”, obviously input error or misunderstanding. When I try and use my cad program to figure it out I end up with a 24” riser which will not work for my genetics and the ceiling height, not too many in my family under 6 foot tall. I know I can gain an additional 4.5” with a mini riser under the chairs but I am still concerned if it will be enough. I should be able to push the projector back some (plywood backer stops at the 84” mark) to raise the screen bottom but I was trying to avoid breaking the projection with a second row walk-by.

Any thoughts or comparisons?


First let me welcome you to the forum and I have subscribed to your build thread. I see you are in the KC area, I take it from you screen name you are in Grain Valley? There is pretty good KC theater group on here and sometimes do movie nights at peoples HT's every month or so. Check these out when you get a chance.




https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...ter-crawl.html

As for the Riser I have been using this calculator.
http://www.diymovierooms.com/Home-Th...s/Riser-Height

It will get you close. When I came up with the numbers I drew it up on AutoCad and usually it was a little short. I like figuring the heights based on when people are seated, because some may not recline all the time. By moving the screen up your height of your riser will go down in height. The theater I am planing on building at this time is close to what you have. The one I have uploaded here is 16'-10"x25'-8"x 8'-8". I am thinking of going 2 rows of 4. I wanted a 3rd row, but I don't think it is necessary.

Also if you are going to build a soffit around the room I would do it first before building the riser. That way you don't have to work around it. It looks 13" should work from your drawing. How high is your screen up from the floor? If at 24" you could go up to 30" and your riser should drop about 3".
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post #26 of 38 Old 10-27-2017, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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For the calculators I think a lot of people mess up and don't notice the difference between eye height and top of head height. Generally speaking they should accurate if you know how high your heads will be. I'm not sure what your cad software is assuming for top of head height, eye height, and how high the bottom of the screen are, which are important along with how far back the rows are.

Also for your projector, you mentioned trying to get it within the critical distances, but did you also consider the amount of vertical shifting that it is capable of? Are you for sure within those ranges?

Project is looking good!
I have it all in AutoCad and it is close give or take a few inches it just depends on where I assume someones head will be in the chair.

On the vertical shift... I currently plan on a 130" 2:35 (141.3" diag.) screen. That should be 55" of vertical screen height and the projector I am eyeing claims a 85% vertical shift which equals 46" and some change. With my current screen height (21" off of the floor) I should be right at 46" center to center. May need to adjust everything a little but I think I close as long as I have understood everything correctly. Trying to keep the projector as tight to the ceiling as possible.

Thanks for the input and the compliment.
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post #27 of 38 Old 10-27-2017, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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First let me welcome you to the forum and I have subscribed to your build thread. I see you are in the KC area, I take it from you screen name you are in Grain Valley? There is pretty good KC theater group on here and sometimes do movie nights at peoples HT's every month or so. Check these out when you get a chance.




https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...ter-crawl.html

As for the Riser I have been using this calculator.
http://www.diymovierooms.com/Home-Th...s/Riser-Height

It will get you close. When I came up with the numbers I drew it up on AutoCad and usually it was a little short. I like figuring the heights based on when people are seated, because some may not recline all the time. By moving the screen up your height of your riser will go down in height. The theater I am planing on building at this time is close to what you have. The one I have uploaded here is 16'-10"x25'-8"x 8'-8". I am thinking of going 2 rows of 4. I wanted a 3rd row, but I don't think it is necessary.

Also if you are going to build a soffit around the room I would do it first before building the riser. That way you don't have to work around it. It looks 13" should work from your drawing. How high is your screen up from the floor? If at 24" you could go up to 30" and your riser should drop about 3".
I understand you on the third row. I thought about adding a bar top third row but decided against it and the closer I get to getting everything detailed out the happier I am that I decided against it. I do plan on building the soffit first (this weekend hopefully) and then get a first coat of mud on before I tackle the stage and the riser. Raising the screen height is a contingent plan but if I raise the screen I will need to lower the projector to clear the big a$$ beam that I could have more than likely planned around when I built the house. If I only knew then what I know now!

I think for now I am going to stick with the 2x12 riser and plan on a 2x4 mini riser under the chairs, that should give me a little over 17". I will probably try and mock it up the best I can since I already have the chairs.

I have been on the KC Theater thread from time to time, I don't spend a lot of time over there but do check it out from time to time. Are there plans for a 2018 crawl?
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post #28 of 38 Old 10-27-2017, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ChadGV View Post
I understand you on the third row. I thought about adding a bar top third row but decided against it and the closer I get to getting everything detailed out the happier I am that I decided against it. I do plan on building the soffit first (this weekend hopefully) and then get a first coat of mud on before I tackle the stage and the riser. Raising the screen height is a contingent plan but if I raise the screen I will need to lower the projector to clear the big a$$ beam that I could have more than likely planned around when I built the house. If I only knew then what I know now!

I think for now I am going to stick with the 2x12 riser and plan on a 2x4 mini riser under the chairs, that should give me a little over 17". I will probably try and mock it up the best I can since I already have the chairs.

I have been on the KC Theater thread from time to time, I don't spend a lot of time over there but do check it out from time to time. Are there plans for a 2018 crawl?
I didn't really plan the screen height in my theater (when I started with a scope screen) until after we had built the riser and built the stage and screenwall goalposts. From there we put blue painters tape on the goalposts (to simulate the screen frame) and put a normal chair in front and on the riser to see what a good height would be. Initially, I had a 130" wide scope screen, on a single 2x12 riser (Plus double 3/4" plywood top making) making it 13.5" high. This was fine as far as two row viewing was concerned. When I changed the screen to a 16:9 format however, the bottom of the screen was much much lower, so I added a booster riser under my rear chairs which sat on top of my riser. You really wouldn't even notice it was there, but you can't make it too high, because then getting into the chairs is hard. I think any higher than the 3.25" I had em would be difficult. (2x4s + 3/4" ply)

Love the layout and sound/equipment plans. I wish I had your space to work with, I could use the extra seats! Make sure to put adequate HVAC cooling in there!

Last edited by damelon; 10-27-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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post #29 of 38 Old 10-27-2017, 09:50 AM
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Are there plans for a 2018 crawl?
If there is a 2018 one it will likely be lower key, with less participants. Hopefully there will be a larger scale g2g sometime in 2018 at a park or something if no crawl.

I think the expectation is to have another wamma-jamma one in 2019.
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post #30 of 38 Old 10-27-2017, 10:18 AM
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If there is a 2018 one it will likely be lower key, with less participants. Hopefully there will be a larger scale g2g sometime in 2018 at a park or something if no crawl.

I think the expectation is to have another wamma-jamma one in 2019.
I think I remember reading somewhere that it will be in 2019. Not sure that the park thing is going to work out this late in the year.

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