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post #31 of 590 Old 11-10-2017, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Door framing day!

Framing is almost complete. Most people find the exciting phase of their project is the finishing. In my case it is the framing and finding solutions to maintain decoupling efficiently. Today it is time to tackle the the door framing structure. Wish me luck!







A hydronic heating pipe to work around. The vertical 2x4 behind the pipe is just for checking heights and clearances.

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post #32 of 590 Old 11-10-2017, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
Door framing day!

Framing is almost complete. Most people find the exciting phase of their project is the finishing. In my case it is the framing and finding solutions to maintain decoupling efficiently. Today it is time to tackle the the door framing structure. Wish me luck!







A hydronic heating pipe to work around. The vertical 2x4 behind the pipe is just for checking heights and clearances.

Why is there piece of 2x4 between the two top plates. I thought that the IB-3 clip should attach vertically like I have attached.
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post #33 of 590 Old 11-10-2017, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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In a standard installation the IB3 clips would be mounted just the way you have shown, and I have done so for the rest of the room. In this case the wall is directly under the center beam so there is no way to secure the clip vertically. In addition, the drywall will rise above the bottom of the center beam to support the soffit on either sides of the beam. To do so I will use OSB as the first layer.

Mechanically the IB3 bracket is supporting the framing as if it were vertical. The 2x4 piece is not really a 2x4 but a 4x4 chopped up to fit perfectly between the space with just a couple of mm clearance below the center beam 2x4 support.
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post #34 of 590 Old 11-10-2017, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a couple more pictures that give a better view of what I am trying to achieve. The center beam is as wide as a 2x6. The framing is 2x8 so it is almost an inch proud of the center beam on either side.


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post #35 of 590 Old 11-22-2017, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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A big step for me. The door is in place. It is all squared up but I will leave final touches till the end. Building the frame was more like surgery than construction, but it all worked out. I'm really happy!! All framing including the door frame is decoupled, and nothing is touching. As Hollywood and Capitol Hill will tell you at the moment touching is a bad thing.

Pro tip: Don't use a Dyson as a shop vac. It is so good at dust collection that your wife will divorce you and you may not even notice.





You can just about make out the IB3 clip that is holding the frame in place



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post #36 of 590 Old 11-22-2017, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
A big step for me. The door is in place. It is all squared up but I will leave final touches till the end. Building the frame was more like surgery that construction, but it all worked out. I'm really happy!! All framing including the door frame is decoupled, and nothing is touching. As Hollywood and Capitol Hill will tell you at the moment touching is a bad thing.

Pro tip: Don't use a Dyson as a shop vac. It is so good at dust collection that your wife may divorce you and you may not even notice.





You can just about make out the IB3 clip that is holding the frame in place



That's a nice big door. Is it 4' wide? I take it you built the door as well as the frame?

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post #37 of 590 Old 11-23-2017, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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It's a 42 inch solid core 1-3/4 birch door. Unfortunately I don't have the skiIls - I bought it prehung
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post #38 of 590 Old 12-23-2017, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Today was the start of a process I've been avoiding for the last two weeks: Applying drywall to the subfloor to combat footfall. As you can see, the plank sub floor looks porous so I'm hoping just as much that the drywall will reduce sound leakage through the sub floor slates.

Is that the collective sound of 1000 groans? Yes, I'm using Roberts 3095 carpet glue. And Green Glue. The problem is the sub floor slates are uneven so it would take copious amounts of green glue to form any decent bonding with them. Bent nails compound the unevenness. From what I read about constrained layer damping this sub floor is not a good candidate in theory. If the carpet glue drys hard and forms a solid bond with the planks then I'd consider that a good thing. Green glue then goes between the layers of drywall.

Is the process as miserable as I thought it would be? It's ten times worse . How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. That's the approach I use when tackling such soul-sucking jobs. However this is one elephant I'm not sure I want to eat.








While at Home Depot shopping drywall I came across 10 foot long, 25 gauge furring channel at $6 a pop. What a find! I snapped up the 20 pieces needed and took the stash home. The channel is flexible like 25 gauge should be. I had a couple of pieces left over from tmsoundproofing and compared them with the HD hat channel. Firstly the HD channel is 2.75 inch wide while TMS channel is 2.5in. The HD channel was bent and under stress when secured in a whisper clip whereas the TMS channel rests perfectly in it. Lastly and most importantly for me, the TMS channel is more compliant than the HD channel, which means better decoupling. There is no sense on spending so much on soundproofing then picking an inferior performance hat channel. I returned the HD hat channel and will order TMS hat channel for my project.






The new Ford Transit vans are awesome! They make so much more sense than the F150 trucks everyone buys. I'd buy one if I needed a utility vehicle.

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post #39 of 590 Old 01-03-2018, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Just some pictures of the theater in the local Best Buy










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post #40 of 590 Old 01-04-2018, 08:44 AM
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So does the door lead into another listening room? Was that TV or a screen with projector. The screen seems kind of small for the room.

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post #41 of 590 Old 01-04-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the door leads to a living room home theater setup. The perspective is deceptive. The screen is 100 inches and the projector is laser but HD. The door is your regular 32 x 80 but is built like a vault door. It is massively heavy.
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post #42 of 590 Old 01-04-2018, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I passed through the store today and had another look at the screen. It's by Stewart and, as you might be able to make out from the photo, it has a masking blind mechanism to reduce the image to 16:9.
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post #43 of 590 Old 01-06-2018, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Here lie the souls of 1000 footfalls..




You might be thinking, 'What a wuss, complaining about putting put a few pieces of drywall between the joists.'

What is not obvious is that the sheets of drywall cannot get past those electrical cables in one piece. They are scored and snapped in order to wiggle through. So I'm balancing a loose 30lb floppy sandwich of drywall, green glue and peanut butter that is falling apart, high overhead with shifting centers of gravity, and then trying to attach the mess with screws and drive them in with one hand, while holding the boards up with the other hand..


Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

At least that was the idea with the shower caddy. It failed miserably, unable to support the weight. What made all the difference was laying a piece of two-by-eight on the ground, which gave me the extra 1.5 inches of reach that made all the difference.




Sandwich making station. One thing most of us who've laid tile in bathrooms know, is to regularly lift up one tile to check thinset coverage. I did that for the green glue. Is there a case for trowelling? Hmm..






"♩ I love peanut butter, creamy peanut butter ♩"




This cast iron radiator has thrown a wrench in the works. Initially I chose to work around it then dress it up sometime after the build. Now I see that ideally it needs to be replaced. The iron pipe also needs to be switched for copper. There is no way I'm touching the heating system in this bombosomethingorother cyclone that is hammering the North East at the moment. The exposed basement has also driven heating bills up. Another hidden cost to the project..

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post #44 of 590 Old 01-30-2018, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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This morning I woke up in a cold sweat after a horrifying nightmare.. In my dream I went down to the basement and found that only half of the footfall drywall was installed... Arrrrghhh!!!!! (picture that in Atmos)

It's done. I now have to add post traumatic therapy sessions to the home theater costs. In all, 22 sheets of 5/8 drywall, 17 tubes of green glue and three 5-gallon tubs of Roberts 3095 carpet glue went into the installation. You can see why I was not so keen on green glue for all. The fourth tub of Roberts glue is because I was just short enough glue to install the last piece of drywall There is another use for it: caulking the gaps between the footfall drywall and joists.






I really like the Roberts 3095 glue - it remains very elastic, though still a lot stiffer than green glue. Before running out of glue I set up test samples to place in a time capsule and see how they change over time. Let me update this post in 30 years .







In other news the Polk RM705 system has flown away to a new home. It is a puny surround system compared to the ones in this forum. But it was loud enough for me, and too much for my acoustically transparent floor and walls. The footfall drywall has already helped tremendously in reducing the sound reaching the main level.



How many layers of drywall do you reckon I need?

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post #45 of 590 Old 01-31-2018, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Speakers..

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post #46 of 590 Old 02-01-2018, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Speakers!

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post #47 of 590 Old 02-01-2018, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Moar speakerzzz!!!

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post #48 of 590 Old 02-01-2018, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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The speakers are a couple of KEF KHT3005SE systems plus four of the satellites in silver. The drivers look very similar to the LS50 though they are way older. I am hoping that the UniQ drivers will make for good Atmos speakers.

A few years back I was keen on the 3005SE's but they were above my budget at $1500. I forgot about them. As I planned this new HT I came across a couple of deals for $300. I'll use the good ones in a 5.2.4 setup, then sell whatever is left over.


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post #49 of 590 Old 02-03-2018, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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The electrical goodies have arrived. I bought samples of the usual Halo H27 remodel cans, as well as a new one: The E27RICAT.

The lastest ultra thin recessed LED lights that do not need a can are amazing, however I think the flexibility that traditional cans offer with a wider choice of bulbs is the better bet. The great thing about the E27 can is that its locking mechanism looks like it will work fine for double 5/8 drywall. With the other cans you have to improvise your own way to hold the securing clips in place for anything greater than single 5/8 drywall. I also like that the connection box is not dangling at the end of an extension, which makes for a compact package.

A couple of years ago I ordered 250ft of Cat 6 cable to wire the whole house. I learned the other day that Cat 7 and above is out. This time I decided to buy terminated lengths of cable, that way I only have to wire the socket end. It works out at almost the same cost as a single roll of Cat 7. The reason for going Cat 7 is for better shielding.

The speaker wire is returned and in-wall rated Monoprice 12AWG wire is on its way.








Parts for the hydronic system upgrade. The pragmatist in me recoils but my inner steampunker is doing backflips!





Work starts on the bathroom remodel in parallel. It's amazing what you can get these days: An LED lit 50ft endoscope camera for $20!

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post #50 of 590 Old 02-03-2018, 12:08 PM
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I'd have loved to use that core drill if it was an option. Unfortunately it was not. Very expensive to rent, if you can find one.

Apart from not being able to drill from the outside, the inside of the cinder block was not simply two hollow halves. There was plenty of internal structure that had to be chiseled away. Then they filled the voids with broken pieces of brick
when my buddy and myself drilled through my 12 inch pour for the 4 and 3 inch holes when we did the pool house waste lines and conduit runs even with a core bit it took him 4 hours to get through for the 4 inch cause he hit rebar after rebar in the pour. i was laughing cause i was smoking him and then i hit rebar and we were both hung up. sucked ripping through the rebar. i really never want to drill through my foundation again. plus we were 4 plus feet down in a small trench. just sucked.

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post #51 of 590 Old 02-03-2018, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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when my buddy and myself drilled through my 12 inch pour for the 4 and 3 inch holes when we did the pool house waste lines and conduit runs even with a core bit it took him 4 hours to get through for the 4 inch cause he hit rebar after rebar in the pour. i was laughing cause i was smoking him and then i hit rebar and we were both hung up. sucked ripping through the rebar. i really never want to drill through my foundation again. plus we were 4 plus feet down in a small trench. just sucked.

jim
Wow, you had it much worse than me! What tools did you use?
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post #52 of 590 Old 02-03-2018, 04:10 PM
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We used 2 huge bosh hammer drills. Myself in 1 trench my buddy in the other. I drilled the 3, 3 inch conduits holes and he did the 4 inch waste one. I did my 3 to his 1 cause of all the rebar he was hitting. I hit some but not as much as him. When we poured my foundation besides the rebar sticking up in the footers we also were just throwing more and more rebar into the forms as we poured for more bind. Helped with preventing cracks but oh man to drill through afterwards now. Totally regret it. We blame his older brother on that one cause that was his idea. Brutal. Good laughs though.

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Quote:
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when my buddy and myself drilled through my 12 inch pour for the 4 and 3 inch holes when we did the pool house waste lines and conduit runs even with a core bit it took him 4 hours to get through for the 4 inch cause he hit rebar after rebar in the pour. i was laughing cause i was smoking him and then i hit rebar and we were both hung up. sucked ripping through the rebar. i really never want to drill through my foundation again. plus we were 4 plus feet down in a small trench. just sucked.

jim
Wow, you had it much worse than me! What tools did you use?
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post #53 of 590 Old 02-03-2018, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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We used 2 huge bosh hammer drills. Myself in 1 trench my buddy in the other. I drilled the 3, 3 inch conduits holes and he did the 4 inch waste one. I did my 3 to his 1 cause of all the rebar he was hitting. I hit some but not as much as him. When we poured my foundation besides the rebar sticking up in the footers we also were just throwing more and more rebar into the forms as we poured for more bind. Helped with preventing cracks but oh man to drill through afterwards now. Totally regret it. We blame his older brother on that one cause that was his idea. Brutal. Good laughs though.
Amazing that the drills were able to go through rebar. You are probably on NASA's shortlist for the real life version of the Armageddon movie!
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post #54 of 590 Old 02-03-2018, 07:43 PM
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Fortress Of Amplitude

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The electrical goodies have arrived. I bought samples of the usual Halo H27 remodel cans, as well as a new one: The E27RICAT.



The lastest ultra thin recessed LED lights that do not need a can are amazing, however I think the flexibility that traditional cans offer with a wider choice of bulbs is the better bet. The great thing about the E27 can is that its locking mechanism looks like it will work fine for double 5/8 drywall. With the other cans you have to improvise your own way to hold the securing clips in place for anything greater than single 5/8 drywall. I also like that the connection box is not dangling at the end of an extension, which makes for a compact package.



A couple of years ago I ordered 250ft of Cat 6 cable to wire the whole house. I learned the other day that Cat 7 and above is out. This time I decided to buy terminated lengths of cable, that way I only have to wire the socket end. It works out at almost the same cost as a single roll of Cat 7. The reason for going Cat 7 is for better shielding.



The speaker wire is returned and in-wall rated Monoprice 12AWG wire is on its way.

















Parts for the hydronic system upgrade. The pragmatist in me recoils but my inner steampunker is doing backflips!











Work starts on the bathroom remodel in parallel. It's amazing what you can get these days: An LED lit 50ft endoscope camera for $20!





Avoid Cat7 (and the made-up “Cat6e”). It isn’t a standard that is getting support by the TIA. Instead the newer standard Cat 6A has superseded it. You aren’t likely to ever find equipment or connectors that support Cat7. It will fit and work to a degree but won’t be properly terminated at the equipment to meet Category 7.

It really only exists now because of marketing, 7 is greater than 6, but 6A is newer and the only twisted pair copper really spec’ed by switch manufacturers to deliver 10Gbit ad full distance.

I posted this on someone else’s thread already but I’d recommend some good Belden or Panduit 6A from a place like Anixter. It isn’t cheap but not crazy expensive, maybe $450/1000ft.
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post #55 of 590 Old 02-04-2018, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Avoid Cat7 (and the made-up “Cat6e”). It isn’t a standard that is getting support by the TIA. Instead the newer standard Cat 6A has superseded it. You aren’t likely to ever find equipment or connectors that support Cat7. It will fit and work to a degree but won’t be properly terminated at the equipment to meet Category 7.

It really only exists now because of marketing, 7 is greater than 6, but 6A is newer and the only twisted pair copper really spec’ed by switch manufacturers to deliver 10Gbit ad full distance.

I posted this on someone else’s thread already but I’d recommend some good Belden or Panduit 6A from a place like Anixter. It isn’t cheap but not crazy expensive, maybe $450/1000ft.
Wow, thanks for helping me dodge that problem! I'll return the Cat7 and get Cat6a.
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post #56 of 590 Old 02-04-2018, 03:16 PM
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Wow, thanks for helping me dodge that problem! I'll return the Cat7 and get Cat6a.


Glad there is still time.

As I mentioned, you’d probably still have working cable with a category 7 assuming it really meets the ISO spec. 10gig might be hit or miss on longer runs with no proper jacks and equipment. In the end it wouldn’t be worse than Cat6 or 5e, but if you care about getting the right stuff it’s 6a.

See some links here for examples of what to look for.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=55597150
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post #57 of 590 Old 02-04-2018, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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post #58 of 590 Old 02-04-2018, 06:15 PM
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Lol. They were pretty heavy duty drills. I can?t believe the bore bits didn?t wear out. Lol. My buddy deff has it way worse that I did. He hit 2 different pieces.

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We used 2 huge bosh hammer drills. Myself in 1 trench my buddy in the other. I drilled the 3, 3 inch conduits holes and he did the 4 inch waste one. I did my 3 to his 1 cause of all the rebar he was hitting. I hit some but not as much as him. When we poured my foundation besides the rebar sticking up in the footers we also were just throwing more and more rebar into the forms as we poured for more bind. Helped with preventing cracks but oh man to drill through afterwards now. Totally regret it. We blame his older brother on that one cause that was his idea. Brutal. Good laughs though.
Amazing that the drills were able to go through rebar. You are probably on NASA's shortlist for the real life version of the Armageddon movie!
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post #59 of 590 Old 02-04-2018, 06:22 PM
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I ran over 1500 feet of cat6a in my basement and for my theatre build. It sucked to pull. You can stand it up straight it?s so stiff. It?s a pain to terminate too cause they don?t have cheat push through connectors so u have to make sure they sit properly. I did get to try a few of the new tool less connectors that flex to 90 degrees to relieve strain. I have pics of them in my build. They r really nice.

I?m using them right now for some Atlona 4K extenders. Work great.

Jim
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post #60 of 590 Old 02-04-2018, 07:25 PM
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I ran over 1500 feet of cat6a in my basement and for my theatre build. It sucked to pull. You can stand it up straight it?s so stiff. It?s a pain to terminate too cause they don?t have cheat push through connectors so u have to make sure they sit properly. I did get to try a few of the new tool less connectors that flex to 90 degrees to relieve strain. I have pics of them in my build. They r really nice.

I?m using them right now for some Atlona 4K extenders. Work great.

Jim


Yeah, it is beefier than standard network cable. I don’t find it particularly hard to pull, but maybe that comes down to path planning, avoiding corners. It’s about as tough as quad shield coax or the white 14/2 romex. You do need 6A keystone jacks or you’ll have a hard time squeezing the ends (and may defeat the rating).

Here are some photos of 6a next to some cheapo 5e that is for my 100mbit security cameras, also RG6 quad.Click image for larger version

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