Fortress Of Amplitude - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 658 Old 05-25-2020, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Time to switch up the look of the theater. It's not gardening. I'm trying to put together some "minimalist" sound panels.

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post #632 of 658 Old 05-26-2020, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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One million screws later and the backings are ready. After verifying that the cross hatch fencing is vinyl, I tried to glue the edge trim with PVC cement. It did not work at all, no adhesion. Plan B was the screws and they have worked well. It was disappointing to find that the edge trim channel is twice the width of the fencing panel thickness, so had to use spacers create a tight fit.

The reason for going this route is that I intend to use the remaining length of my linacoustic roll for the panels. It looked big enough. However after unwrapping it, it was partially uncoiled and turned out to be half the length I assumed, and needed. I'll have to use something like denim insulation sheets to make up the difference.



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post #633 of 658 Old 05-27-2020, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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A nice selection of fabric samples has just checked in for the sofa project. The supplier is an essential provider, now manufacturing PPE, so they understandably took a while. I'm glad I didn't order the full material straight off the online pictures. Some are very different from what I expected.

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post #634 of 658 Old 05-27-2020, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
A nice selection of fabric samples has just checked in for the sofa project. The supplier is an essential provider, now manufacturing PPE, so they understandably took a while. I'm glad I didn't order the full material straight off the online pictures. Some are very different from what I expected.
And the winner is . . . .
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post #635 of 658 Old 05-27-2020, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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And the winner is . . . .
This..




Wait, what?? I brought this in literally just a few minutes ago. I was all committed to building a couch, and the process would take several months due to logistics such as the delays in shipping of parts. Lately I have been cleaning house of all my post construction crap. Yesterday it was the drywall lift, which sold on Craigslist in an instant. There is a reseller in the area who snaps up the cheaply listed high end furniture and resells it with a four figure markup - I've looked at his offerings which are nice, expensive, and tempting but haven't quite fit the bill. As I took down my lift listing I decided to run a search just for the heck of it. BAM there it was, posted just an hour earlier! I pulled out all stops to lock the couch down before the lurking reseller got his hands on it. The seller suggested looking up the couch online to get its dimensions. I went to check its specs and my jaw dropped on the floor when I saw the price - high four figures, and they sold it to me for $300. Can't argue with that. @TMcG , you were absolutely right!

Despite the brand name, it doesn't look that expensive to me. It's not perfect. I find that couches are like speakers - Small differences in design make or break the experience between speakers that superficially seem close to identical. There is more give in the suspension than I like, which may have more to do with all the excess weight I'm carrying (thanks Covid! ) However for the savings it is more than fine. As my realtor told me, "If there are three must-haves in you are looking for in a house, if you find one with two of them, buy it!"


The difference in depth is huge! I was already $200 in, in parts for a couch build. All is not in vain. There is a friend who needs a modular sectional for his basement theater that has an impossibly tight stairway entry. I just might build one for him.

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post #636 of 658 Old 05-28-2020, 04:41 AM
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Glad you found something. It just takes diligence and patience to find what you are looking for at the right price. I've even flagged items I've wanted but definitely NOT priced to sell on a secondary market. I'll send a note to the sellers saying I hope they get their price but to reach out to me if it doesn't sell and they are interested in discussing a deal.
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post #637 of 658 Old 05-28-2020, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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The six pack of 2 inch Knauf Smooth Board landed this morning. Their description seemed to be rigid enough when I looked them up on GIK Acoustics. I later panicked when reading further about them, after ordering. It was too late to cancel. It sounded like they were loose sheets, similar to your typical rolls of pink fiberglass insulation. Good news is that they feel pretty much like OC703. They are way cheaper, so that is a big plus.






The cross hatched panels get sandwiched between linacoustic and knauf.




The panel turned out better than expected. I feared that the border trim would push the insulation proud at the edges. Not not a sign of that. One thing this project has not been so far, is quick, easy or cheap. The vinyl edge trim cost way more than I expected, plus having to buy the Knauf sound board. This one panel has taken close to two cans of 3M 77 to glue together.



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post #638 of 658 Old 05-28-2020, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I take that back. This version of Knauf Sound board is less than half the weight of OC703 and not as rigid. It will do for this project.
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post #639 of 658 Old 05-29-2020, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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There was not enough spare speaker cloth to line the insides of the cutouts, so I used one of my t shirts that don't seem to fit any more. Interesting thing about t shirts I noticed for the first time in all these decades - They don't have seams down the side.




Not my finest job. I'm surprised I didn't take photos of the covering process. I lay the speaker cloth on the patio and kept it taught at the corners using the nearest heavy objects in hand - sledge hammers, axes, etc. I then sprayed 3M 77 glue around the perimeters of the panel and immediately plopped it onto the cloth. I left it to dry for an hour.





Glad to have the panel finally done. The crease is due to all the flopping in the heavy winds as I moved it around. The rough parts will thankfully be hidden behind the AV stand.





The panel is supported by screws that the hatch rests in. The screws stick out an inch in order to accommodate the linacoustic.

One advantage of this method is that it was very easy to mark the cutouts for the sockets.




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post #640 of 658 Old 05-30-2020, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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The second panel, glued and ready to lower on the cloth. I get by with a little help from my friends. Before they go to Infinity War, as you can see at the bottom.




All glued up, and much better this time round. Or so I thought...




Lifted it up to see a huge crease where a spacer slice of insulation was added for coverage. I'm done with it at this point. It will have to suffice.

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post #641 of 658 Old 05-30-2020, 07:24 PM
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Fortress Of Amplitude

Sorry, double post

Lakeview Cinema build thread

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post #642 of 658 Old 05-30-2020, 07:27 PM
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I think you could fix it by getting some 1x2 lumber, cutting 1” of insulation around the perimeter and replacing it with a frame to stretch it over. Or you could split it in half and make two panels similar to how other theaters have done.

I realize you have the cut out to contend with. The way I’d do this is build a wood outline on the wall that goes around the cutouts you need, lay insulation into the inside, stretch and staple to the wood. Then put trim around it if needed to cover any staples or exposed wood.
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Lakeview Cinema build thread
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post #643 of 658 Old 05-31-2020, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you could fix it by getting some 1x2 lumber, cutting 1” of insulation around the perimeter and replacing it with a frame to stretch it over. Or you could split it in half and make two panels similar to how other theaters have done.

I realize you have the cut out to contend with. The way I’d do this is build a wood outline on the wall that goes around the cutouts you need, lay insulation into the inside, stretch and staple to the wood. Then put trim around it if needed to cover any staples or exposed wood.
That's a great idea. I'll probably keep trying to take the easy route out of this one. The brown cloth is disappointingly light, which is not good for the screen wall. I'll place some stiff material over the ridges, probably drywall fiberglass mesh, then cover the panel over again with black cloth.
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post #644 of 658 Old 05-31-2020, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The side panels follow closer to the spirit of 'minimalist' absorption panels that I had in mind: Next to no framing in order to avoid diffraction effects. It's like installing titanium exhausts on a Corolla LE.

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post #645 of 658 Old 05-31-2020, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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My first furniture! The top is building lumber and the rest poplar. A dark poly/stain (espresso) will be applied to it. Wish me luck! These are the times I wish I were a wood working god like @pkinneb !

Edit: I'm wondering if a spray can lacquer will give a better result.


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post #646 of 658 Old 05-31-2020, 08:03 PM
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What is it? I figured a stool height table but the rectangle hole in the middle is throwing me off!


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post #647 of 658 Old 06-01-2020, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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What is it? I figured a stool height table but the rectangle hole in the middle is throwing me off!


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It's an AV rack. The hole at the top is for ventilation (and has nothing to do with running out of lumber, I promise )

I chickened out and added a hint of structural support to the rear legs.

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post #648 of 658 Old 06-01-2020, 08:37 AM
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Oh nice! Makes sense and glad it wasn’t running out of lumber


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post #649 of 658 Old 06-01-2020, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
Edit: I'm wondering if a spray can lacquer will give a better result.
Looking good! Yes to spray lacquer top coat, my go to rattle can is Deft. I usually pick it up on Amazon but it can be found in stores as well.
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My Theater Build - Full Circle Cinema
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post #650 of 658 Old 06-03-2020, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I may revive the sofa project just to have an excuse to use this bit

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post #651 of 658 Old 06-04-2020, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
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...It's like installing titanium exhausts on a Corolla LE...and has nothing to do with running out of lumber, I promise...
LOL

Aaron
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post #652 of 658 Old 06-06-2020, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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The rack turned out ok, much to my surprise. The shelves from the old rack were reused for this one. It's a lot more sturdy than expected. When measuring, I banked on the legs being flexible enough to squeeze fit the shelves if necessary. They ended up needing a lot of persuasion with a mallet.

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post #653 of 658 Old 06-06-2020, 01:00 PM
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Very nice!
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My Theater Build - Full Circle Cinema
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post #654 of 658 Old 06-06-2020, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Why go through the trouble of building an AV rack? The old one wasn't terrible. Despite being of 90's flavor it fitted quite well into the AV corner. The first problem is that that top shelf where the receiver sits is too high. I made the classic mistake of underestimating the length needed of HDMI run coming out of the wall, so it was barely long enough to reach the receiver. The second problem is the rear center column. You can see how it interferes with the outputs in a heavily featured ATMOS receiver.






I wanted a replacement stand with no center rear column, a height that would work well for my cable runs, none of that shiny metal\glass style heavily favored for HiFi racks, and a price under $200. The best option I figured was to make a quick, easy, and cheap interim rack that would place-hold for the next few months. Cheap it wasn't. Materials included about 34 feet of 1x4 poplar, stain, spray lacquer, sanding stuff, and shelf and trim hardware. It was about $120 in all, way over budget. The positive side is that it came out better than expected, and can hold fort for the foreseeable future.

While the AV walls were renovated the plasma TV was pressed back into action. I struggled to get back into the groove with a TV I once loved.

The absorption panels have made quite a difference and opened up the sound stage considerably. A resounding success. To get the projector back into action I placed the receiver onto an Ikea side table. I kinda liked the setup, and briefly contemplated making it permanent. The Nvidia shield is the prime source 99% of the time, so just it and the amp could suffice. The sound also won't be impeded by a tower rack of components.




Not knowing much about staining, I chose an ebony gel stain in the hopes that it would reveal enough of the wood's character, along with steel wire sanding. The stain turned everything black. I still like the look. I laid the gel stain on thick, planning to wipe it down after a few minutes. I promptly got distracted for a couple of hours. It was sticky when I returned so I thought I had messed up with sticky stain that would never dry. Resigned, I left it that way overnight, fully prepared to buy regular stain the following morning to clean it up with. The stain was completely cured by morning - an unexpected relief!

@pkinneb , thanks for the tip! The spray lacquer was the right way to go. What would have taken several days with polyurethane coating took a day with Deft spray lacquer.


I feared that the rack and components would caused reflection issues, so I built a side acoustic panel with the last remaining scraps of linacoustic. I had two full pieces of linacoustic, and laid out scraps in the middle to make a third layer. Just after I sprayed the scraps a gust of wind blew them up and all over the other already sprayed sheet. As you can imagine I was not a happy camper.




There is no solid panel inside it, it is all insulation. The result was not great, the sound felt congested. With the panel removed the effects of the media tower are surprisingly not noticeable, at least yet. The sound of the room is not perfect - it is time to get serious with room analysis and fine tuning.







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post #655 of 658 Old 06-07-2020, 07:59 AM
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Do you have an equipment list anywhere? I was going over this thread after seeing the volt kits and noticed you sold some HTM12's last year.
That left me wondering what your actual setup is using.

Thanks.

Spoiler!
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post #656 of 658 Old 06-08-2020, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you have an equipment list anywhere? I was going over this thread after seeing the volt kits and noticed you sold some HTM12's last year.
That left me wondering what your actual setup is using.

Thanks.
Theres something about Mary..

I'm feeling a bit of imposter syndrome, as my theater is really more of a media room. To echo @dersken 's sentiment, most of the time I listen at a volume that a soundbar could easily meet. I have come to admit that there is some magic the KEF KHT3005 centers have, that other speakers can't match, at least for the volume I listen at.

Before buying the KEF 3005s, I always though their center speaker was a bit of a gimmick. After all, what benefit could those two tiny ABR units really provide? My plan was to set them aside and use the single cone bass reflex side speakers for all channels. The bass reflex versions didn't sound particularly great. As I played around with configurations I decided to try the center speakers as left and right channels, just for kicks. It was a revelation! They are very musical and give a three dimensional texture to sounds. The best analogy I can think of is car design. There are some cars that look flat and uninteresting in the magazines. It's only when you see them in person that you can see all the interesting curves and details of the body that were not evident in the pictures. That's what the KEF centers do for sound. I would find myself unconciously tapping along to the track music of the most mundane programming.





From experience I knew it would be hard to find another set of speakers that could provide such enjoyment, but I was going to give it a try. The HTM12's came along. They were great, and could really bring the house down when turned up. However that 'je ne sais quoi' of the KEFs was not quite there. Speaker musicallity is a complex subject and preferences are very individual. I believe that most people would find the HTM12s easily superior to the KEFs. While I wanted to keep them anyway, I just don't have the space to store them. The new owner loves them!




Surely in the 14 years since the KEFs came out there should be a number of speakers that could match them. I tried two: Mission QX-2s and Monitor Audio Silver 100s. The monitor audio silvers were musical but suffered from a problem I find common to speakers with metal coned mid\bass drivers - They needed to be turned up to start singing. There was a two month return window from Crutchfield, so they went back. The Mission QX-2s were not as musical, but they had the low level detail and natural atmosphere that the Monitors were lacking.



At this stage I was pretty sure there was little hope of finding an up-to-date version of the KEF experience. There was one last and obvious option - current KEF centers. Superficially they are similar but they are actually very different. I bit the bullet and bought three KEF Q650s. They are the closest I have come to getting the same enjoyment that the 3005s deliver. They are not quite there, but they are the first speakers that have made me content enough not to switch them out. The new KEFs are in many ways superior to the old, but not quite as enjoyable in a couple of crucial areas. What they both have in common is they don't use ports, and have sweet sounding high frequencies. I think there is an emphasis that the old KEF gives some midrange notes that really makes the difference.

The Mission speakers eventually found buyers who recognised them for what they were, and were very happy to take them off my hands, since they are not available locally. I have slight regret selling them because they performed very well as HiFi speakers. However I needed to recoup some money to cover the new KEF purchases.

DIY Sound Group is an excellent resource in our community for theater speakers. Unfortunately, due to the nature of their operation, models frequently go out of stock or are discontinued. That came to bite me when I wanted to order HTM-10s and HTM-6s. I really like what I hear from the Volt 6s, so I bought the additional four to either test as front channels or for a new theater system if I ever move house in the future. In other words I bought them to hoard.

My current system is KEF Q650s for LCR, Volt 6s for surround and Atmos. The left atmos channels of my Marantz SR7012 stopped working. I was banging my head for not registering the receiver for warranty. After some tests I found out that the pre-outs were still functional, so I hooked them up to an old Denon AVR787 that was literally a day away from being donated.




The KEF Kube 12b has been joined by a smaller 10b brother. There is something weird about the low frequency characteristics of the room that I need to get to the bottom of (no pun intended). The second sub will hopefully be able to help fix it. Now that all the hardware and room treatment is in place, It is time to get serious with room analysis and tuning.

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post #657 of 658 Old 06-08-2020, 11:49 AM
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This is one of my favorite threads of ALL TIME! The ingenuity and skill on display here is spectacular. I mean...you were going to BUILD a couch!!!!! I’m silently sitting by my email inbox, hugging my knees whilst rocking back and forth awaiting the announcement of a G2G!


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post #658 of 658 Old 06-08-2020, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
This is one of my favorite threads of ALL TIME! The ingenuity and skill on display here is spectacular. I mean...you were going to BUILD a couch!!!!! I’m silently sitting by my email inbox, hugging my knees whilst rocking back and forth awaiting the announcement of a G2G!


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Thanks so much for the kind words! The theater performance is nowhere near G2G standards, and there is a lot of work to be done buttoning up the sound. Once it's safe to venture outside and the sound is sorted I'd be more than happy to have you over for a listen! As for the couch, this is what runs through my head

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