Fortress Of Amplitude - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 596 Old 03-09-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
While browsing screens and materials on Amazon I was pleasantly surprised to find it is possible to buy sample packs, and they are cheap. The Carl's Sample Pack Projector Screen Materials came in today. I'm waiting on the Elite Screens Sample Pack 7.











I think I got the same Carl’s pack. I took it over to a friends house to try on his projector and I think we agreed that the acoustic weave looked the best, though it is a tad warm. I’m not sure I’ll go for that in the end but it was a fun experiment.
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post #92 of 596 Old 03-09-2018, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Forgot to mention I went to Cine Bistro yesterday. The screen was a lot smaller than the one I went to the other week, but the design, sound, and steak were superb!



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post #93 of 596 Old 03-10-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
While browsing screens and materials on Amazon I was pleasantly surprised to find it is possible to buy sample packs, and they are cheap. The Carl's Sample Pack Projector Screen Materials came in today. I'm waiting on the Elite Screens Sample Pack 7.




Screen material and Maker's Mark. That's a good combo Good choice.
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post #94 of 596 Old 03-14-2018, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Having fun with the Elite Screens Sample Pack 7. It is great having samples in hand to see exactly what they are like, and to test how they perform compared to my reference white sheet. It is a lot better than try to read between the lines of reviews. I'm liking the Elite samples!

It's time to test the Panasonic FV-04VE1 ERV. It will not be installed for months. Just to confirm it works.

The Kerdi shower kit has come in for the bathroom remodel. It has a direct impact on the theater since the bath is one of the rooms behind the theater. A leap of faith with Styrofoam!









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post #95 of 596 Old 03-16-2018, 08:08 AM
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I have one of those shower kits. Been installed for about two years and solid as a rock. Just be sure to follow the instructions and use the right thinset. Also I believe it can’t be used with tile smaller than 2”x2”.
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post #96 of 596 Old 03-16-2018, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I have one of those shower kits. Been installed for about two years and solid as a rock. Just be sure to follow the instructions and use the right thinset. Also I believe it can’t be used with tile smaller than 2”x2”.
Thanks for the vote of confidence in the product, it is reassuring. I'm a fan of Sal Diblasi's Youtube channel and he is big proponent of Schluter products.
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post #97 of 596 Old 03-20-2018, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Time to drywall! The wiring looks a bit rough but it should pass..

Lol, I'm still months away from drywall. At the moment it is lighting configuration. I'm doing what worked for my kitchen, which is to put together a crude lighting rig to test lighting setups. They are cheap $1.50 light sockets with dimmable Philips bulbs. It's tricky because some of the ideal locations are too narrow to accommodate a backer box. The lights are also competing for space with Atmos speakers.

I wanted to buy a basic dimmer for testing. It was already half the cost of a Z-wave model so I went ahead and bought my planned GE Z-wave dimmer switch.





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post #98 of 596 Old 03-20-2018, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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As my ladies Salt N Pepa sang, "Let's talk about IB3!"

My walls are isolated by A48R brackets which look identical to IB3 brackets, apart from being red. The recommended screws to use for the rubber are #8 or #10 screws.

Being smarter than the average bear, I figured it would be better to use 1/4 inch thick screws (silver, with washer), which would fit snugly into the hole and eliminate any chance of play. As I completed installation of the brackets I came across a damaged one. It turns out there is a solid plastic core embedded in the rubber. I can now see how the recommended screws may be better than the 1/4 screws I was using, so I'm now switching all the brackets to use #10 x 2.5 inch screws.

I am using star system screws. I highly recommended them as opposed to Philips screws that strip away easily. An impact driver is highly advised! You can see the type of screws I am using from the boxes in the background. Another recommendation is to reduce the gap between the wall and joist to one inch or less. That way you can secure the bracket to the joist with at least four screws. I drive the screw until it barely puts pressure on the rubber.

If you ever need to, it is tough to remove the rubber piece and even tougher to re-insert it without the metal bracket cutting it to some extent. What helps when removing the rubber is to pinch the bottom together before twisting, so that the rubber stops are pulled below the metal. To re-insert the rubber, push it hard into the bracket from the bottom center, so that the top piece clears the metal, then twist. "Now push it, push it real good!" - Salt N Pepa.

If you have any observations or recommendations please share!




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post #99 of 596 Old 03-22-2018, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Nothing is ever simple. I was reading through the Panasonic FV-04VE1 ERV literature. It says the air inlet remains closed for half the time when the temperature falls below 32 degrees. Once the temp falls below 20 degrees it only opens for 10 minutes on the hour. Meanwhile the exhaust fan runs as normal throughout. The unit does this to prevent moisture in the core from freezing. This is not the best news for a room that will be tightly sealed. Most other ERVs heat the core to avoid the problem. Guess it is back to the drawing board..
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post #100 of 596 Old 03-22-2018, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
Nothing is ever simple. I was reading through the Panasonic FV-04VE1 ERV literature. It says the air inlet remains closed for half the time when the temperature falls below 32 degrees. Once the temp falls below 20 degrees it only opens for 10 minutes on the hour. Meanwhile the exhaust fan runs as normal throughout. The unit does this to prevent moisture in the core from freezing. This is not the best news for a room that will be tightly sealed. Most other ERVs heat the core to avoid the problem. Guess it is back to the drawing board..
I can't speak for other brands, but the ERV/HRV I went with doesn't have a heater in it, it exchanges the energy with the outside air with an air to air heat exchanger. From what I have read, the Panasonic does the same thing, just not terribly well. The Panasonic is only capable of recovering about 36% of the cool air in summer and about 60% of the warm air in winter, and that is at 30 cfm. Given the low price of the unit, this makes sense. The unit I went with will do upwards of 80% recovery as low as -25 degrees outside at a minimum of 70cfm, but then it costs around 8x as much as the panasonic.

Really an ERV/HRV unit is designed to inject fresh air into the HVAC system and rely on the HVAC to pump the air through the house, not to exchange high volumes of air on its own. In a theater you are mostly trying to remove the heat and bring in some cool air while keeping it from feeling stuffy. Usually tying in to the HVAC is not ideal for several reasons, like how an HVAC will call for heat in the winter when it might be 90 degrees in your theater room. That really leaves only a couple options, one of which is to exchange all the air in the theater with the rest of the house several times per hour and rely on the HVAC to keep the rest of the house comfortable. Another is to have a mini split unit independently cooling the theater room, and then having a way to freshen the air as well. A small ERV like the Panasonic would work in this case if you are bringing in outside air. Or you can just exchange some air with the rest of the house to keep it fresh. I went for the minisplit option with some air exchange to the rest of the house. I have two fans, one pushing, one pulling, running ~300 cfm. For my 4000 cu ft theater room this will exchange the air around 4 times per hour with the rest of the house. This is probably a little overkill but I can always turn it down a bit.

My total cost for two sound proofed and muffled vents with 300cfm fans, speed controllers, wiring, and flex duct came in under $300. The cost of a 100cfm ERV unit is upwards of $2k just for the unit. I still did the ERV but I tied it into the whole house. I figured if I am going to spend that kind of money to bring in outside air, I might as well benefit from it in every room, not just the theater.

Just my 2 cents, hope it helps to make some decisions on this. I think this was one of the most complicated parts of designing my theater. Now it is in and mostly functional and it actually works very well so far.
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post #101 of 596 Old 03-22-2018, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great information. Yours sounds like a very robust system! I plan to use the ERV purely for air exchanges, and have a separate dehumidifier and mini split for humidity control and cooling. It sounds like this ERV will not be so effective at air exchanges in the middle of winter.
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post #102 of 596 Old 03-22-2018, 09:49 AM
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Thanks for the great information. Yours sounds like a very robust system! I plan to use the ERV purely for air exchanges, and have a separate dehumidifier and mini split for humidity control and cooling. It sounds like this ERV will not be so effective at air exchanges in the middle of winter.
That is one of the reasons I went the path I went - the challenge of cooling a sealed room in the winter. I also put the mini split compressor in the garage so I can run it when it is 25 below zero outside and not have to have any special equipment. My garage is heated anyway, and the by-product of running a minisplit is heat, so it will not only work regardless of how cold it is outside, but it will help heat the garage when in use.

If you are still set on using an ERV, look into LifeBreath. They are more expensive but work better in the winter. I was originally looking at a unit just for the theater to do about 45cfm of fresh air exchange. It was more expensive than the Panasonic but if you can find a distributor and buy one there you can get it for a reasonable price, and they can be run 100% of the time even when below zero outside. Mine has a drain for condensation, but so does my minisplit, so I have a drain installed in the wall between the minisplit and the ERV.
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post #103 of 596 Old 03-22-2018, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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That is one of the reasons I went the path I went - the challenge of cooling a sealed room in the winter. I also put the mini split compressor in the garage so I can run it when it is 25 below zero outside and not have to have any special equipment. My garage is heated anyway, and the by-product of running a minisplit is heat, so it will not only work regardless of how cold it is outside, but it will help heat the garage when in use.

If you are still set on using an ERV, look into LifeBreath. They are more expensive but work better in the winter. I was originally looking at a unit just for the theater to do about 45cfm of fresh air exchange. It was more expensive than the Panasonic but if you can find a distributor and buy one there you can get it for a reasonable price, and they can be run 100% of the time even when below zero outside. Mine has a drain for condensation, but so does my minisplit, so I have a drain installed in the wall between the minisplit and the ERV.
Wish I could return the Panasonic. I bought it a couple of months ago The LifeBreath looks perfect for my application.
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post #104 of 596 Old 03-23-2018, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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You can never take things for granted. I have been searching for good cable securing options. One popular product is a tie wrap that has a hole at the end for securing with a screw. I bought a bunch of them but the vendor sent me regular tie wraps in error. I started using them - After all a tie wrap is a tie wrap, isn't it? As I secured cables, some would come apart. What was I doing wrong? It turns out the tie wraps were weak and brittle, so the latching tab was just falling apart. I'm sticking to big box store tie wraps!

The two options I bought are the ones below. The right option can be unclipped easily and it is sturdy. I have more faith in the tie wrap bracket on the left so that's what I'll be using.





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post #105 of 596 Old 03-23-2018, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there any downside to building lighting backer boxes from particle board?
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post #106 of 596 Old 03-26-2018, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Started on the backer boxes. I had two sheets of 3/4 inch particle board for some speakers that I never got round to building. After research I could not find any good reason not to use particle board for the backer boxes. It's not the strongest stuff but it's not like the boxes will be touched once they are installed.

I noticed on my local craigslist that someone is selling 21 tubes of QuietGlue Pro for a throw away price. Wish he had listed them before I started on my footfall drywall.

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post #107 of 596 Old 03-27-2018, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The Craiglist seller was literally going to throw away his stash of QuietGlue tubes since he had to get rid of them and no one was buying. I did the honorable thing and saved them from a fate with the landfill. 21 tubes for $40. I have no idea what I'm going to do with them since I intend to use Green Glue. Will probably sell them on at cost.


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post #108 of 596 Old 03-27-2018, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I've built many speaker boxes over the years but I'm not very proficient in cabinet making. One of the tasks I had been avoiding is cutting the flat packs for the backer boxes, especially since I do not have a good tool for cutting 4 by 8 sheets. I have a Harbor Freight circular saw that I tried once and the results were nasty.

This past weekend the eureka moment came, and I had the flat packs for eight backer boxes cut in 20 minutes. This is how I did it. A note that this story contains elements of fiction, and the whole process took longer if you count the Home Depot trip.

Here are the dimensions of the boxes I had in mind. The space between my joists for the backer box with remodel can is quite tight.



The tools I had at hand were my table saw and 10" sliding miter saw. The hurdle was how to cut a large sheet up into reasonably precise pieces. I really should invest in the track saw that Tedd recommended.

The piece to the puzzle came when I remembered that Home Depot will cut a sheet for you (SMH!). However the minimum cut they will make is 12 inches, and you are at the mercy of the attendant cutting them for you, so accurate cuts are by no means guaranteed. So I came up with a plan. I got them to cut two 3/4 4x8 sheets into 12 inch strips and took those home.



The 20 minute action begins:

These are the pieces that I needed to make.



I adjusted my table saw to 11 inches and trimmed down two of the 12" strips. I then adjusted my table saw to 5.75 inches and trimmed each of the rest of the 12" strips into two 5.75 inch strips.



On the miter saw I improvised an extension with marker for the 16.5 inch point. Using it I cut the two 11 inch strips, and most of the 5.75 inch strips into 16.5 inch pieces. I then adjusted the mark on the miter saw to 9.5 inches and cut the remaining 5.75 strips.



Like most historical tales, this is not really how it went down. There are plenty of holes in the story . I then used cheap Harbor Freight clamps to assemble the boxes. The glue drips easily so you can see how I applied it to keep it from running down before assembly. It is also wise to keep the strips perfectly flat while chopping them on the miter saw otherise the cut edges might be at a slight angle and the box will go askew if you clamp at the ends. Now you know why I am using just one clamp under light pressure in the middle. Titebond is the only wood glue I've used that keeps well in its container for a long time. The maximum cut the 10 inch sliding miter saw can make is probably 12 inches. To speed the process I cut two strips at a time on the miter saw for the smaller pieces. There are certainly much better ways to make boxes. I thought I'd share what I did with my limited resources.






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post #109 of 596 Old 03-27-2018, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
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The Craiglist seller was literally going to throw away his stash of QuietGlue tubes since he had to get rid of them and no one was buying. I did the honorable thing and saved them from a fate with the landfill. 21 tubes for $40. I have no idea what I'm going to do with them since I intend to use Green Glue. Will probably sell them on at cost.


What I have seen on line about this product is it takes for ever to dry and oozes down the walls when used between drywall. I believe @HTGeek did wrote something up about this product and he did not like it. Maybe he will chime in on it. I plan on using Green Glue when or ever get to that point.

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post #110 of 596 Old 03-27-2018, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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What I have seen on line about this product is it takes for ever to dry and oozes down the walls when used between drywall. I believe @HTGeek did wrote something up about this product and he did not like it. Maybe he will chime in on it. I plan on using Green Glue when or ever get to that point.
Yes, @HTGeek 's review is why I intend to go with Green Glue. However, I hear it is not too bad on horizontal surfaces and I may be able to get away with encasing it with a perimeter of green glue or "peanut butter" (Robert's 3095 carpet glue).
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post #111 of 596 Old 03-28-2018, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Having fun comparing screens, each doubling in size from the previous. The first is a 32 inch Visio that was my only TV when I sold my plasma. Second is the 64 inch plasma I bought non-working and have just repaired. It was intended to be the main screen for my theater. Finally the 130 inch projector screen to rule them all! It was interesting how quickly I found myself adjusting to the 32 inch once it was all I had.

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post #112 of 596 Old 03-28-2018, 11:30 PM
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Subscribed. Awesome project!
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Marantz 6012 | Dual Full Marty’s with UM18's | iNuke6000DSP | ViewSonic PJD7828HDL | 135” Elite Screen 16:9 | Dual 8” speakercraft LCR | AIM 7 Surrounds | 5.2.2 Currently
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post #113 of 596 Old 03-29-2018, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Is this a record for the tiniest backer boxes in existence? I went a bit crazy with my rapid flatpack manufacturing process and churned out 30 kits for these tiny things in the obligatory 20 minutes!

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post #114 of 596 Old 03-30-2018, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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These boxes were originally intended as housings for speaker wall outlets. Now I'm thinking they could also be backer boxes for power outlets. They might be more effective at soundproofing outlets than putty pads since they ensure the outlet box is completely sealed on all sides.

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post #115 of 596 Old 04-04-2018, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Prototyping station for outlet backer boxes. I scrapped the previous batch. Some information I came across in a past thread indicates this is total overkill and does not add value over plain putty pads.

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post #116 of 596 Old 04-04-2018, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Jenga! I think I've picked up a box making habit..

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post #117 of 596 Old 04-07-2018, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Caption this!

"Mr Incredible married Elastigirl... And they got busy!!"

"Wait, how many members were there in the Backer Box Street Boys?"

"We bumped into Justin Timberlake last night. It didn't end well.."


About ten large backer boxes remaining to be built but they have to wait until hat channel goes up.

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post #118 of 596 Old 04-07-2018, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
Caption this!

"Mr Incredible married Elastigirl... And they got busy!!"

"Wait, how many members were there in the Backer Box Street Boys?"

"We bumped into Justin Timberlake last night. It didn't end well.."


About ten large backer boxes remaining to be built but they have to wait until hat channel goes up.

Are the smaller boxes for outlets and switches? I thought you were going to use putty?

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post #119 of 596 Old 04-07-2018, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Are the smaller boxes for outlets and switches? I thought you were going to use putty?
I was going to use putty pads. The issue I have with putty is I don't see how you can ensure the gap between the outlet box and the stud is properly sealed. These were built originally to house speaker terminal outlets, then I thought to myself - Why not use them for power outlets! I was going to use just the boxes alone but I've changed them to accommodate putty pads. Total overkill but the boxes are so easy to make it is not an issue for me. The boxes are a lot cheaper than putty pads and hopefully offer better sealing. It is important to ensure the boxes are glued together airtight. A quick test showed a couple of mine weren't as airtight as they looked so I had to douse the rest in wood glue. You also have to consider code compliance.
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post #120 of 596 Old 04-08-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by impreza276 View Post
I was going to use putty pads. The issue I have with putty is I don't see how you can ensure the gap between the outlet box and the stud is properly sealed. These were built originally to house speaker terminal outlets, then I thought to myself - Why not use them for power outlets! I was going to use just the boxes alone but I've changed them to accommodate putty pads. Total overkill but the boxes are so easy to make it is not an issue for me. The boxes are a lot cheaper than putty pads and hopefully offer better sealing. It is important to ensure the boxes are glued together airtight. A quick test showed a couple of mine weren't as airtight as they looked so I had to douse the rest in wood glue. You also have to consider code compliance.
I have seen others use duct seal instead of putty pads. It's a lot cheaper. To get coverage between the box an stud I would think the putty would have to go on the box before fastening it the the stud. This looks like it will work, but more work then I would want to do. Hope it would out.

https://www.toolbarn.com/ideal-31-60...44e6a786801d95
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