Oh my, here we go - The Drop In Quarters Arcade Bar & Theater - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 690 Old 03-08-2018, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Griffin Cinema & Bar



Renders of my proposed theater design....








The Completed Bar & Lobby Area




The History....

As a kid I used to make pinhole cameras out of cardboard boxes and a magnifying glass, put them over my 13" Black & White TV set and project the image onto my bedroom wall. That was my first home-theater and the beginning of the dream for me.

I've traveled a lot in my life, lived in many countries, so as a result was never really settled enough to commit to the time and financial investment of a dedicated theater room. Now I'm settled in San Diego, California with my own house and a space that I can actually play with - it's time to start down the road.

I don't have a huge budget, but I'm prepared to shoot for something in the region of $25k for my finished room with all the AV gear and furniture. Maybe I'll be able to run a little higher if I spread the costs out over time.


My current set up.





For the past five years I've been enjoying my movies and my other hobby, collecting and restoring classic arcade machines, in my garage. Living in southern California means temperatures which allow me to enjoy hanging out in my garage almost year round without any real heat or cold issues.

I've made the best of what I have, simply piecing together odds and ends to create a room that is family friendly where we can enjoy that 'movie feel' without having to custom build a room.

It's served me well, but I REALLY want to build something that isn't "something else converted"

My modest AV setup looks like this...

- 110" Home made blackout cloth screen
- Sony VPL-HW40ES Projector
- Energy speakers 4+1 Center
- Some big ass sub I found on Craigs List
- Pioneer Something or other 5.1 Receiver
- Cheapy Theater Seats from some place online.

The nice thing is that having this setup in the Garage will 'hopefully' stop me from rushing the dedicated space as I build it, because I already have a great little spot to hang out and enjoy in my down time.
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post #2 of 690 Old 03-08-2018, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The Space

When I bought my home 5 years ago, one of the huge draws was the large room on the back of the house. It was a bit of an odd construction, half concrete wall up to about 4ft on three sides, then wood framed with a lot of windows. It originally had a horrible semi-opaque white corrugated non-insulated roof which turned the space into an oven during the summer and was freezing during the winter - I really don't know what the previous owner was thinking when they built it, while it looked pretty, it was basically unusable.



2 Years ago I had my contractor come in, replace the roof, add a fully insulated ceiling, heat exhausts, LED lighting etc to turn into a much more usable space with far better thermal control.





There are various aspects about the space that are pluses and minuses (like every other non-custom built candididate)...

Pros...

- It exists already!!!
- One continuous space 40' long, 15' wide.
- Solid floor, nothing underneath
- 3 un-shared walls
- 1 solid concrete wall against the 'exterior' of the house
- Existing electrical
- Great height - 10' ceilings

Cons...

- It exists already!!!
- Lots of windows and doors to remove
- Existing roof line encroaches into space
- The solid concrete stucco walls may cause framing headaches??


The Vision...

I'm trying to split the space into two distinct areas, incorporate the location of the bathroom and use the existing roof outcrop in such a way that it creates a design feature rather than an eyesore. The idea is to split the space into two 20x15 rooms. A bar and social area with arcade and pinball machines, and the dedicated theater.



Basic render of the theater space. I've followed the lines of the existing roof outcrop around three sides of the room and created illuminated alcoves to display movie memorabilia. The hallway exists because I have an irrational/sentimental desire to have a passage way that you walk through to get into the theater - to me it just adds to the feeling. In these first renders I place a small refreshments area at the end of the hallway, but I think this will be better served as an equipment and sub closet as the bar will be just outside the main entrance to the theater, so it will be easy to just go there for refreshments.





Here's a render with the two hallway walls removed just so you can get a better idea of how the spaces relate to one another and the existing structures.

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post #3 of 690 Old 03-08-2018, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Audio and Video Equipment - Budget approx $12,000

I'll be doing most of my research in the dedicated forums for each of these different areas and just updating the list here as I refine the decisions.

Speakers
LCR - DIYSG 1099s x3 - $1450
Surround sides - SVS Ultra Surrounds - Already Own
Surround rears - Energy Bookshelfs - Already Own
Subs - SVS SB-2000 x2 - $1300
Front heights - SVS Sound Prime Elevations - Already Own
Middle heights - unknown
Rear heights - SVS Sound Prime Elevations - $400
Auro 3D VOG and Front height - unknown

Receiver
Denon 6300h Atmos Receiver - Already own

4K HDR Projector (This choice Very likely to change A LOT during the build)
JVC NX7 is high on the list at the moment as I am a big 'inky black' fan.

120" 16:9 AT Screen
Elite Screens AcousticPro UHD 120" Aeon Screen 1.0 gain - $740

Media Players
HTPC - [email protected], 8gb Ram, NVidia GTX 1070ti, 14TB mirrored storage - Already own
PS4 Pro - Already Own
NVidia Shield - Already Own

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post #4 of 690 Old 03-08-2018, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 690 Old 03-08-2018, 04:47 PM
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Cool space, I dabble in the arcade stuff so I'm interested in following what you are doing.

I would suggest a couple things. First, the seating should not be against the back wall for acoustic reasons. 12-14 feet from the screen is a good viewing distance for many people, and doable in this space allowing you to not be hugging the back wall.

Second, that 138" 2.35:1 screen is probably too big for the projector and while you could technically project that image with that Sony 285 projector with a room that deep, you will not have nearly the brightness needed for 4k HDR. That screen will have about a .8 gain being AT (despite the advertised 1.1 gain), and at that size zoomed in for scope you will have about 8 fL of brightness. That is pretty low even for SDR, and way too low for HDR. You want around 30fL for HDR, but can probably get away with something in the 20's if you can black out the room and don't expect the HDR to look like it would on an LCD TV. The only way to even get close to the brightness you need on that screen size is to get a really expensive high gain AT screen and use a lens with the projector so you aren't losing any light with a zoom method in 2.35:1 mode. That will cost another $6-10k. Or you can scale down to a smaller screen and not have to spend all your budget on one component.

The good news is you can scoot those seats forward a bit to get better sound imaging and go with a smaller screen and it will still look just as big.
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post #6 of 690 Old 03-08-2018, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow that's really great info on the PJ and screen setup I'll have to make sure I pay much more attention to that.

I currently run a Sony SDR and have no brightness issues with it on my 110" screen in my garage at about 14' from the screen, I have it on cinema mode which is the darkest setting but yes different formats and a different material.

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post #7 of 690 Old 03-09-2018, 08:08 AM
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When I started my new theater I had no idea brightness would be an issue, after all the 120" Silver Ticket screen I had was painfully bright in some scenes with a Sony HW40es projector. As I fell deeper down the rabbit hole, I learned how much more HDR needs and how much less brightness you get as you increase the size of your screen. I went from budgeting for $500-1000 on a screen to having to consider options as high as $7k! Talk about a budget buster...

One way to look at this (and this isn't my quote) is you date your projector, you marry your screen. You will upgrade the projector in a few years, but chances are you will be stuck with that screen for the life of the room. Still makes it hard to spend 2-3 times more for a screen than a projector, but it does make sense.
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post #8 of 690 Old 03-09-2018, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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After doing some serious question asking and research I've found that I have to make some significant design changes to achieve my HDR setup along the lines you pointed out.

So, using this projector, screen size, 1.3 gain and mounting point...



I've simplified my design and gotten much more 'realistic' about designing the space from a function standpoint, taking into account some the things I've learned about acoustics as well.



Here's a quick and dirty render





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post #9 of 690 Old 03-09-2018, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffindodd View Post
I have to make some significant design changes
No, you don't......
That Arcade is a sweeeeeet set up man, you do not need a HT, that Arcade should be enough LOL.
Just saying

I salute you.
I too love restoring old arcade games and you have twice as many as I do. Very cool.
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post #10 of 690 Old 03-09-2018, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamest View Post
No, you don't......
That Arcade is a sweeeeeet set up man, you do not need a HT, that Arcade should be enough LOL.
Just saying

I salute you.
I too love restoring old arcade games and you have twice as many as I do. Very cool.
Ha! Thanks man, I've been in that hobby about 6 years. I run the Arcade Icons web site and Facebook pages, I've probably done over 40 restores of different types over the years. I'm actually planning to wind the hobby down a little and transition my time, energy and money into the HT project as I need a change of pace, and this is something I have always wanted to do.
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post #11 of 690 Old 03-09-2018, 02:58 PM
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Ha! Thanks man, I've been in that hobby about 6 years. I run the Arcade Icons web site and Facebook pages, I've probably done over 40 restores of different types over the years. I'm actually planning to wind the hobby down a little and transition my time, energy and money into the HT project as I need a change of pace, and this is something I have always wanted to do.
Yeah, I will have to check that out Arcade Icons web site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffindodd View Post
I'm actually planning to wind the hobby down a little and transition my time
Oh no, don't do that. It is a love that should never die. But I get the HT thing too, I really do. It can be a bit of a disease that will never end. Anyways, it looks like you have a great space to work with that most here do not have. I really look forward to seeing how it comes out
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I didn't see an anamorphic lens in your equipment list, and I don't think that projector has the lens shift or the memory to be able to do CIH with the zoom method. I am intrigued by the laser DLP's that have come out, but that's why I skipped them and went with the Epson 5040 - I don't have the budget for a lens and processor right now.


I like the renders, it's looking good! I look forward to seeing your progress.
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post #13 of 690 Old 03-09-2018, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't see an anamorphic lens in your equipment list, and I don't think that projector has the lens shift or the memory to be able to do CIH with the zoom method. I am intrigued by the laser DLP's that have come out, but that's why I skipped them and went with the Epson 5040 - I don't have the budget for a lens and processor right now.


I like the renders, it's looking good! I look forward to seeing your progress.
Yep i think I may stick to 16:9 and then if I get really motivated after the room is finished then maybe I'll build a vertical masking system.

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post #14 of 690 Old 03-18-2018, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I spent most of the afternoon giving away old furniture and clearing out a bunch of junk to get my 20' x 16' blank canvas.

Now that the space is clear I think it will help me actually move from ideas to getting something real underway.

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post #15 of 690 Old 03-21-2018, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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A little refinement, moving the entry door directly behind the seating, I figured I may as well use the space as a passageway and keep everything as symmetrical as possible.

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post #16 of 690 Old 03-23-2018, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I spent some more time thinking about the relationship of the bar area to the theater and how I wanted them to work together.

One of the great things about my space is that it is a huge 40ft long room, which is pretty rare to find in a typical family home. I didn't want to lose that feeling by just cutting the area into two separate spaces. I was flicking through the 'show me your theaters' thread and was inspired by this design choice...




which would relate well to my space and what I would like to achieve, the flexibility to 'open' the room to a certain extent for more casual use, parties, sports viewing that kind of thing.





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post #17 of 690 Old 03-23-2018, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I adjusted the projection wall to maximize viewing distance. I am 'stuck' with the sliding doors on the back wall, and I would like to be able to access them in the future, so I'm thinking of doing a hinged screen wall that will lift up and reveal the sliding doors behind for access (even though I rarely use them on that side of the house). The sides area basically 30"x30" which I intend to use for speakers and AV closets.



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Absolutely love where your going with this
In case you missed this post about those doors https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post55896104
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post #19 of 690 Old 03-23-2018, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely love where your going with this
In case you missed this post about those doors https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post55896104
Thanks for this info, good words of warning there, thankfully I have plenty of time to work it out as I go, and to be honest, soundproofing into the bar area won't be super critical, in fact those doors may stay open much more than they are closed.

Speaking of the bar area, here's an updated layout...





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post #20 of 690 Old 03-26-2018, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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After reading a fair amount of posts on the issues of doors and soundproofing I'll bite the bullet and accept the fact that I can't have a good sound floor AND a large opening option, so I'll replace my entrance with a single hung door.
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post #21 of 690 Old 03-26-2018, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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At least with the single hung door I can create more space for pinball and arcade games, woo hoo

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post #22 of 690 Old 03-26-2018, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Stripping the design back down to basics to focus on acoustics first I'm kinda torn on the aesthetics. While I know that I should certainly let function drive form, I also want this room to be an attractive addition to my house, so I'm struggling to find a look that accommodates light control and acoustics without creating a black hole.

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post #23 of 690 Old 03-26-2018, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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looking better with some proper seating and a riser.





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post #24 of 690 Old 03-26-2018, 01:10 PM
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Great name and great looking space.
looking forward to seeing the process.
We bought a new house last year and after looking at many it is funny how some additions are designed.
l also have always wanted to get a full sized Galaga game!

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post #25 of 690 Old 03-27-2018, 06:33 AM
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Subscribed! Interested to see how you handle your window and other challenges. Looks to be a fun build.

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post #26 of 690 Old 03-27-2018, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Because I'm probably going to shoot for a room-within-a-room and I have a concrete slab with tile flooring, I'll need to create a floating floor to work on top of. I'm wondering if I can build the floor first, as a 'platform' that I then build the walls on top of later? I assume this would be the closest I could get to a fully decoupled room.

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post #27 of 690 Old 03-27-2018, 07:19 PM
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After reading a fair amount of posts on the issues of doors and soundproofing I'll bite the bullet and accept the fact that I can't have a good sound floor AND a large opening option, so I'll replace my entrance with a single hung door.


Saw a familiar post above! You came to the same conclusion as I did. The only difference is you didn’t have to spend $ to figure it out . You could get a 6-7 ft wide opening with double doors. There are STC double doors, although STC rating is less than single. I’m redoing to do 4 ft wide door. Good luck!!


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post #28 of 690 Old 03-27-2018, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gwthacker View Post
Saw a familiar post above! You came to the same conclusion as I did. The only difference is you didn’t have to spend $ to figure it out . You could get a 6-7 ft wide opening with double doors. There are STC double doors, although STC rating is less than single. I’m redoing to do 4 ft wide door. Good luck!!


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That's because I paid attention to what you said my friend lol. But that's why we're all here right?

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post #29 of 690 Old 03-28-2018, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's my plan for the floating base/floor of the room. I plan to build the walls on top of this as I will be doing 'mostly' a room within a room although there are some structural limitations in my space that will stop me from going fully decoupled (unless I want to add a LOT more cost to the build). The current floor is a concrete slab (nothing below) with a stone tile finish.

The base will sit an inch short of the 3 surrounding walls

15' 8" x 19' floating floor platform. (300 sq/ft)

- 2 x 4 frame, 16" on center, resting on Auralex rubber joist floaters every 24" (I will provide these)
- R-13 insulation
- First floor layer - OSB screwed and glued to the frame with liquid nails sub-floor
- 2 x 4 wall bases on all 4 sides
- Second floor layer - 30# roofing felt glued to the OSB
- Third floor layer - OSB glue only to the roofing felt

Looks like I can get 50 Auralex isolators for $125 shipped no tax from a variety of sellers, i'm going to need 150 of these, so I'll go that way unless someone knows of a better deal on 150 instead of 3 lots of 50?

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post #30 of 690 Old 03-28-2018, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I've decided to delete the bathroom door and access to the sliding doors (behind the screen) from the theater.

While it would have been nice to hop out of your seat and go straight to the bathroom through the side door, it causes me noise isolation issues, step height issues and generally increases my costs and complications, so it needs to go.
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