Jeff's Small Home Theater Build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By jjcook
  • 1 Post By jjcook
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 06-30-2018, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Jeff's Small Home Theater Build

Introduction

Almost five years ago, after much research and deliberation and hurry-the-baby's-coming motivation, my first dedicated room build ended up as not much more than dark paint, Triad in-wall speakers, JVC projector, first surface mirror, and AT screen in a finished spare second floor bedroom. Ever since that build I have continually dreamed of future improvements (acoustic treatments, aesthetic elements, variable aspect masked screen, etc) and had even started construction toward some of those intents; but six months ago I realized that I wouldn't be completely happy with the room unless I started from scratch to build true theater and not just a super media room -- at least so far as my space-constrained room will permit -- so I tore it all down like any other obsessed AVS member would.

In short (too late), the room is 10'x15'x9' stud-to-stud, a second floor room at the corner of the house opposite the bedrooms. Primary design goal is to seat 4 for family movie time (two adults and two younger children with +1 adult as a bonus). The room will be sound-intrustion-proofed with double drywall, green glue, clips and channel, etc; walls will be fabric panels with acoustic treatments; 9.x.6 audio with custom built speakers, baffle wall, and subs all hidden behind fabric; acoustically transparent screen with four-way masking with constant image height the primary focus; hush box with space for two projectors; a ducted mini-split; equipment closet outside the theater; etc. Overall, the room's space limitations for each of these elements have been and continue to be adversarial in my mental simultaneous equation design task.

Current Status: 2018 June 30

Original drywall ripped out in preparation for soundproofing and am currently working through the overall design. I also need to remove the framing from the closet that was in the room and the prior electrical.



Status Updates:
  • Jul'18 -- Construction phase starts. Now that the kids are out of school I should be able to take a few hours in the morning before I head into the office.
  • Jun'18 -- Solidifying critical design elements...
  • Feb'18 -- We got a new puppy and life got busy.
  • Dec'17 -- Deconstruction: removed partially-completed coffered ceiling and drywall

Thread Index:
  1. Previous HT Build: what goes up, must come down.
  2. Analysis Paralysis: a tale of two room orientations.

- Jeff
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	avs_build_status_18june30.png
Views:	811
Size:	2.18 MB
ID:	2422300  
bubbrik likes this.

Last edited by jjcook; 07-01-2018 at 10:22 PM.
jjcook is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 06-30-2018, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
reserved
jjcook is offline  
post #3 of 21 Old 06-30-2018, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
reserved 2
jjcook is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 21 Old 06-30-2018, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Previous HT Build: what goes up, must come down

I never created a thread for my original dedicated HT build unofficially named "Hurry up! the baby's coming soon" It was a modest spare bedroom conversion assembled Nov 2013 thru Feb 2014.

I started with a 10' x 12.5' room (excluding the closet) with the door and a closet along the short wall and a window on the other short wall. For scale you can see a queen bed frame in the first photo.

In planning the first build, I chose the long wall adjacent the doorway for the screen wall so the room would feel open and spacious. After carefully selecting Triad in-wall Gold Omni SE speakers for LCR, in-ceiling dipole Silver Surrounds, an 2.35:1 100"-wide Falcon HD acoustically transparent screen, and a high contrast JVC RS4910 projector, I tackled the short throw of the 10' room depth by utilizing a first surface mirror (which was also tilted to position the projector closer to the ceiling). The equipment was stacked on small shelving in the closet. Cozy and functional.

Fall 2016 I had decided to do some acoustic treatment upgrades; as my left and right "walls" were not practical to properly treat due to doorway, closet, window, I decided to at least treat the ceiling reflections from my tweeter-mid omni speakers and get some bass trapping. The concept was a 9" deep coffered ceiling with ~6" of cloud treatments in the coffers. I decommissioned the room and slowly started the coffer build; I obsessed over the moulding profiles for many months. Finally after having built the coffer framework and purchasing the mouldings (shipped from across the country) -- I second guessed myself! Was this the theater that I wanted for this space? No. My kids' bedrooms are on the same floor; on Friday nights the neighbors hold parties in their backyard; the layout is difficult to acoustically treat side reflections; and so on. Once these mouldings would be installed there was no way I'd rebuild the room. So instead, I tore out the coffer frame, tore out the drywall, and here we are...



Equipment list for this previous room build:
  • Projectors: JVC RS4910 and Mitsubishi HC7900DW
  • Screen: Falcon HD 100"-wide 2.35:1 acoustically transparent screen
  • Seating: Lovesac Sactional and Supersac
  • 5.1 Speakers: 3x Triad InWall Gold Omni SE (behind screen), 2x Triad InWall Silver Surrounds (in ceiling)
  • Subs: Power Sound Audio XS15 (back corner near closet) and Triad Bronze SlimSubs (between LCR)
  • AVR and Video Processor: Marantz SR7008 and Lumagen 2143
  • Media: Oppo 103D, TiVo Mini, HTPC
  • Rack: $10 plastic rack from Walmart, placed in the closet

I sized my scope screen for a 2.4x screen height for my eye-to-screen distance of approximately 8.5-feet. I was satisfied with the scope size but ultimately unhappy with the 16:9 image size for blockbuster content. I learned from this room that I would like to have a scope screen sized for 2.0xSH but would shrink casual 16:9 content as necessary.

With deconstruction nearly complete, its time to get going....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	avs_build_oldroom.png
Views:	847
Size:	3.64 MB
ID:	2422312  

Last edited by jjcook; 06-30-2018 at 12:12 PM.
jjcook is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 07-01-2018, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Question Analysis Paralysis: a tale of two room orientations

Before I can solidify the many finer points for the room which I've considered and reconsidered over the past few years, I need to finalize which room orientation I will use for the new theater.

My old setup had the screen on the wide (long) wall with a single row of seating up against the opposite wall; as a plus this allowed use of the window (light and fresh air) when not watching something and the room felt open and social. For my new room I intend to build potent speakers around the TPL150H horn tweeter and to have the left and right channels toe'd in at least 10-15 degrees -- this requires my screen (baffle) wall to be about 12 inches deep from screen to drywall; losing this extra foot of depth (on top of the depth lost due to soundproofing) really makes a critical difference in the depth of the room when the screen is on the wide wall. I'm trending towards the narrow room with screen on the wall where the window is.

Here are some quick mock ups of the two room orientations, any opinions from the forum? The yellow surround is the drywall, blue surround is 2" of acoustic treatment, green box is the screen wall keepout, black rectangle is the screen (pictured here as 108"-wide screen for both the narrow and wide rooms), and to-scale couch or recliner theater seats. I'd like to sit at 2.0xSH for CIH as my previous room was 2.4xSH and was too small for blockbuster content. The wide configuration with MLP at 7.5' eyes-to-screen achieves 2.0xSH, the narrow room can be 2.0 if seating is close to screen but as I'll likely only have one row (overflow seating in rear) there will be space to pull back the physical distance to be more comfortable yet still hit at least 2.2xSH. Not shown, the equipment would be in the linen closet shown in the first post.


----------



Here are the major factors I've considered (in no particular order) to choose one orientation versus the other:

NARROW ORIENTATION:

audio
+ 9.x.6 (wides ~required to add spaciousness due to narrowness?)
- MLPs ~3.5-4ft from side surround, other seats more compromised for hotspotting
+ MLP not along back wall
- boundary reinforcement coloration of LR next to wall, maybe minidsp digital crossover / EQ to compensate
- early reflections side walls (path length cancellation)
- SBIR/allison effect 1/4 wave cancellation notch at ~250Hz (maybe 2" of treatment can mitigate this)
~ uneven bass response two rows
- boomy bass response in second row along back wall (since tuned for first row MLP)
~ 2xSH is 59% of room depth if baffle wall doesn't alter acoustic depth, 55% if baffle wall does alter; this is close to 50% room depth bass suck out; 2.1-2.2xSH is 58-62% so bass OK

video
- reflections side wall as screen will be only a few inches from side ~velvet acoustic treatments
~ width limited room, 2.1xSH for 2.4:1 content @ ~8ft is likely design point; CIA screen for larger 16:9

comfort
+ MLP variable distance
+ MLP not back wall
- tight 4x single row couch works but for how many more years (wife and I want to snuggle with our 4+6 year old kids)
- two rows not as social
~ projector headroom: hush box ~30" from ceiling above a rear seat (I might bump out the rear wall for the hush box with a builtin bookcase in the hallway to mitigate this)

WIDE ORIENTATION:

audio
- 5.x.4 (no rear, maybe can add wides)
+ width for audio spaciousness
+ 4x good seats away from surrounds
+ attic subs more plausible (in extended soundproof shell, but not trying to contain bass just not sacrifice noise floor)
+ even bass response across single row
- rear wall bass boom (high variability when head moves a few inches forward/back)
~ will have 6+ inches of acoustic treatment on rear wall behind seats (by embedding into rear wall with backer boxes)

video
- requires continued use of a mirror to extend throw distance, will require a large polished first surface mirror ~$2k to eliminate draw lines artifact
- white hallway and face of door visible when left open
+ screen not limited in size by room

comfort
+ window may be useable with complicated soundproof window plug
- room feels very shallow
- projector/hushbox above MLP, hush box ~20" from ceiling with the 15-degree mirror tilt trick
- floor joists (run length of room) along screen wall supporting a lot of weight, maybe a concern


** link to a parallel thread to discuss the acoustics tradeoffs of the narrow and wide rooms --> Acoustics of wide vs narrow room
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2018-06-12 at 10.20.00 AM.png.png
Views:	987
Size:	83.3 KB
ID:	2422902   Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2018-06-08 at 4.27.32 PM.png.png
Views:	970
Size:	99.9 KB
ID:	2422904  

Last edited by jjcook; 07-18-2018 at 09:10 AM.
jjcook is offline  
post #6 of 21 Old 07-01-2018, 07:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
sirjaymz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
Liked: 502
@jjcook

I vote W2. Seems like it checks most of your boxes that you would like, but also you deal with some of the constraints as well, you also know what the other constraints are going into it.
Additionally, since you have young ones as well, definitely would need them on same row...


Additionally, you have worked a several solutions with the size of space you have... and it sounds like you have spent some time thinking through all the options..

Whatever option you choose, looking forward to seeing your endeavor come together.

sub'd

HT1.0 | HT2.0 (Finally Fully Operational )
JVC RS-2000 / Xbox One X / nVidia Shield / DIY treatments
Seymour AV Center Stage 130" 2.35 / Denon 7200WA / Denon 6300 / 2x miniDSP2x4HD
iNuke NU6000DSP / iNukeNU3000DSP / 2x Klipsch R-112SW / 2x UM18-22 / 12x JBL 12"
11.2(16).6 Atmos/Klipsch RF-82/RC-64II/RS-42/RS-41/BS-62/CDT3800-C-II
sirjaymz is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 07-02-2018, 06:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluer101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,357
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 613 Post(s)
Liked: 683
I would have to go with one of the narrow rooms. I think it gives you the most flexibility down the road for upgrade. Gets you off rear wall too. Your room is only slightly larger than mine I’m currently building. If you gave a chance check out my thread in my signature for a small room.
bluer101 is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 07-04-2018, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
@jjcook

I vote W2. Seems like it checks most of your boxes that you would like, but also you deal with some of the constraints as well, you also know what the other constraints are going into it.
Additionally, since you have young ones as well, definitely would need them on same row...


Additionally, you have worked a several solutions with the size of space you have... and it sounds like you have spent some time thinking through all the options..

Whatever option you choose, looking forward to seeing your endeavor come together.

sub'd
Thanks. Yes the wide configuration is certainly attractive for some reasons, I'm just really stuck at the moment feeling that having the spaciousness behind me (as well as flexibility of physical depth to screen) is important to me, but this does place the side surrounds close enough to make them more localizable -- here I am, talking in circles -- ah the joy of HT!
jjcook is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 07-04-2018, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post
I would have to go with one of the narrow rooms. I think it gives you the most flexibility down the road for upgrade. Gets you off rear wall too. Your room is only slightly larger than mine I’m currently building. If you gave a chance check out my thread in my signature for a small room.
Regarding flexibility of narrow, are you referring to projector throw? With the wide room and a good first surface mirror I can support most any projector -- but yes I'd like to avoid a mirror this time.

I took at look at your build -- looking nice! And I feel your pain on the smaller space Glad to see you're doing wide speakers to help widen the sound stage. With your door location and need for only 3 seats it looks like you have a great setup there. Have you experimented with surround speakers in your room to determine if localization is an issue?

I'm considering if coaxial constant directivity surround speakers setup in a time-intensity trading configuration might mitigate the narrow room regarding localization...
jjcook is offline  
post #10 of 21 Old 07-04-2018, 02:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluer101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,357
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 613 Post(s)
Liked: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
Regarding flexibility of narrow, are you referring to projector throw? With the wide room and a good first surface mirror I can support most any projector -- but yes I'd like to avoid a mirror this time.

I took at look at your build -- looking nice! And I feel your pain on the smaller space Glad to see you're doing wide speakers to help widen the sound stage. With your door location and need for only 3 seats it looks like you have a great setup there. Have you experimented with surround speakers in your room to determine if localization is an issue?

I'm considering if coaxial constant directivity surround speakers setup in a time-intensity trading configuration might mitigate the narrow room regarding localization...
Yes, projector throw for future upgrades easier to deal with. Plus you can get your seats off back wall for sound.

I setup a mock demo for a quick test for audio. It performed really well. My last setup I was using bipole speakers but due to size room and speakers I decided to change back to direct speakers.
bluer101 is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 02-08-2019, 08:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Hi JJ,
Any updates on your room?
Thanks!
mlee1 is online now  
post #12 of 21 Old 02-10-2019, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee1 View Post
Any updates on your room?
Thanks!
Unfortunately not much to update yet, I’ve been hesitant to go with something I may not be happy with. After I was getting close to committing to config N2a, I realized that I might put the screen wall on the “south” wall and convert the hall closet into a communicating door entrance to the theater, which would allow me to have 4 seats across the room (no aisle needed) plus the soundproofing benefit of communicating doors. So I spent time planning the room (shallow baffle wall etc) but later chickened out the unconventional entrance regarding how it would hurt resale value. I next was back to working out for N2a the DIY surround speakers that would minimize localization issues and the in-attic LLT subwoofer feasibility but then had to switch to other non-theater commitments.

All that said! I’m currently waiting for a few preliminary quotes this week to dig out and convert a crawl space area into a full height basement so I can get a larger and more isolated theater — should be able to do a 14x22 HT room plus space for a small dedicated office and so leave this upstairs bedroom for other uses — if I can stomach the expense — I’m expecting quotes in the $50-75k range to get the space to the unfinished basement state. Stay tuned!
jjcook is offline  
post #13 of 21 Old 02-11-2019, 09:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
I’m currently waiting for a few preliminary quotes this week to dig out and convert a crawl space area into a full height basement...
That would be epic!
mlee1 is online now  
post #14 of 21 Old 02-11-2019, 09:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
sirjaymz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 914
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 416 Post(s)
Liked: 502
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
All that said! I’m currently waiting for a few preliminary quotes this week to dig out and convert a crawl space area into a full height basement so I can get a larger and more isolated theater — should be able to do a 14x22 HT room plus space for a small dedicated office and so leave this upstairs bedroom for other uses — if I can stomach the expense — I’m expecting quotes in the $50-75k range to get the space to the unfinished basement state. Stay tuned!

I have actually done one of those dig out the crawl space and make a room when I was a lad and still living at home. Took me the entire summer to dig out the room. It started as a 42" crawl space that I dug out by hand, pick axe, shovels and 5 gallon buckets to reach a depth of 9'6", to allow for a 6" concrete pad to be poured. It was the most grueling work I've ever done, and still is to this day, other than a full remodel on a rental property I did in 2011, that took me a year.



By the time the room was completed, It was the best personal space I could have hoped for during the senior in high school, and till this day, the room has been coined 'The Dungeon'. Would have made a pretty good HT room.


I would say it's a solid $75k.
Good luck with the sticker shock..

HT1.0 | HT2.0 (Finally Fully Operational )
JVC RS-2000 / Xbox One X / nVidia Shield / DIY treatments
Seymour AV Center Stage 130" 2.35 / Denon 7200WA / Denon 6300 / 2x miniDSP2x4HD
iNuke NU6000DSP / iNukeNU3000DSP / 2x Klipsch R-112SW / 2x UM18-22 / 12x JBL 12"
11.2(16).6 Atmos/Klipsch RF-82/RC-64II/RS-42/RS-41/BS-62/CDT3800-C-II
sirjaymz is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 02-11-2019, 10:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Little Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 263
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Boy, do I wish for you that the quotes come back in your favor! I remember all too well how I struggled to cram stuff into a very tiny room and making a lot of compromises. And no, I'm not talking about my excisting small theater build in my signature, but a room before that. It just never turned out really good.

Having said that I do agree with sirjaymz that it seems like you've spend quite some time thinking through the different scenarios. I'm also quite impressed by your mirror solution for getting additional throw distance.

Looking at the different scenarios you've put up I would also vote for W2. That's simply because I tend to like a wider home theater more than a very narrow one - they just feel more comfortable to me

And I know this is probably something you've already thought about, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Is there any chance to move any interior walls or pick another room for the theater, if you did some extra construction works? You could come a long way for $50-75k. Especially, if you did some of the remodelling yourself.

Good luck with your project. As I said, I really hope it bodes well for you!

My Small Home Theater Build
JVC RS400 / 110" 2.40:1 Curved DIY AT Screen w. Masking / Prismasonic A-Lens / Marantz SR7011 / Emotiva XPA-5 / Behringer EP4000 / Oppo UDP-203 / PS4 Pro / Apple TV 4K / 7.2.2 Surround / DIY LCR's / 4xFI IB3 15" IB Sub
Little Chris is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 02-12-2019, 04:23 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 8,830
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1989 Post(s)
Liked: 807
One unexpected lesson of living with a 9' 5" wide room, is how much I like a big 16x9 AT screen.

I do have a horizontal masking system embedded in the AT wall, but I am pretty sure my next theater, is simply going to have one row of seats,
and have but a single upper mask. I went so far as buying an anamorphic lens, and scope screen, before I decided to trying a video image to the
bottom of the screen, and simply drop the screen mounting height. Scope feels a little more IMAX like, despite the fact I am running CIW. And
sports and 16x9 content can be bigger, not as intimate as scope does.

I do like your "suspended" ceiling and could see a wide masking panel, sliding up into that space.

I dug out two rooms when a student. Cheap weekend labor (We have full depth foundations for frost reasons, so there were block support walls,
right down to the foundation.)

My space is still 5.1 (with dual subs). I have my moments where I think 2.2 would be so easy, headache free, potentially free of hdmi for audio, coupled
with the 54x96" AT screen. I also am not far off being fully ATMOS capable, with a recent upgrade of an eight channel surround speaker amp, and htpc
upgrades. I am a little leery about a bunch of speakers bouncing around a small room, but the upgrade was really about the next theater. In the same light,
I wouldn't reach for horned tweeters in such a small space. Domed tweeters have the capacity to play reference levels in such a small room. I have occasionally
caught horns beaming in a smaller room, and while it doesn't last long, it kind of is unsettling.

My vote for best small space layout is:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	jjcook.JPG
Views:	35
Size:	163.7 KB
ID:	2524640  
Tedd is offline  
post #17 of 21 Old 02-14-2019, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Two conversion quotes came back: $73k and $59k

Basic process is to underpin or otherwise reinforce the existing foundation and then use shotcrete for structural and/or waterproofing (so there is no exposed cold seam). Also includes cutting a stem wall in my garage so I can reclaim a few feet of depth for the basement.

These prices include call outs for my independent engineering cost and permits to overall convert the crawlspace into unfinished waterproofed basement space; after DIY finishing will end up $175-200/sqft which is on the high side as the ratio of perimeter to underpin / floor space is higher than doing the same in a larger basement. My house (excluding land value) is currently valued around ~$150/sqft so its not a clear cut decision on any potentially added value to mentally offset the expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
I have actually done one of those dig out the crawl space and make a room when I was a lad and still living at home. Took me the entire summer to dig out the room. It started as a 42" crawl space that I dug out by hand, pick axe, shovels and 5 gallon buckets to reach a depth of 9'6", to allow for a 6" concrete pad to be poured. It was the most grueling work I've ever done, and still is to this day, other than a full remodel on a rental property I did in 2011, that took me a year.

By the time the room was completed, It was the best personal space I could have hoped for during the senior in high school, and till this day, the room has been coined 'The Dungeon'. Would have made a pretty good HT room.

I would say it's a solid $75k.
Good luck with the sticker shock..
Thanks for sharing that story -- that must have been a phenomenally daunting task to do by hand. I'm certainly not digging it out myself but more importantly as this requires underpinning the existing foundation (or replacing) its not a DIY job even if I wanted to hire some day laborers -- and my kids are too young

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Chris View Post
Boy, do I wish for you that the quotes come back in your favor! I remember all too well how I struggled to cram stuff into a very tiny room and making a lot of compromises. And no, I'm not talking about my excisting small theater build in my signature, but a room before that. It just never turned out really good.

Having said that I do agree with sirjaymz that it seems like you've spend quite some time thinking through the different scenarios. I'm also quite impressed by your mirror solution for getting additional throw distance.

Looking at the different scenarios you've put up I would also vote for W2. That's simply because I tend to like a wider home theater more than a very narrow one - they just feel more comfortable to me

And I know this is probably something you've already thought about, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Is there any chance to move any interior walls or pick another room for the theater, if you did some extra construction works? You could come a long way for $50-75k. Especially, if you did some of the remodelling yourself.

Good luck with your project. As I said, I really hope it bodes well for you!
Thanks. Unfortunately there is no other room in the house to utilize for the space and with the relatively small lots here in the Portland area for newer construction houses there is no space to build out and as I have a truss roof it would cost just as much to build up.

Yes those are aspects I like about the W2 configuration, I'm just fighting absolute eye-to-screen distance and would like to sit a little further away when relaxing due to eye comfort since I sit/stand in front of a screen much of the day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
One unexpected lesson of living with a 9' 5" wide room, is how much I like a big 16x9 AT screen.

I do have a horizontal masking system embedded in the AT wall, but I am pretty sure my next theater, is simply going to have one row of seats,
and have but a single upper mask. I went so far as buying an anamorphic lens, and scope screen, before I decided to trying a video image to the
bottom of the screen, and simply drop the screen mounting height. Scope feels a little more IMAX like, despite the fact I am running CIW. And
sports and 16x9 content can be bigger, not as intimate as scope does.

I do like your "suspended" ceiling and could see a wide masking panel, sliding up into that space.

I dug out two rooms when a student. Cheap weekend labor (We have full depth foundations for frost reasons, so there were block support walls,
right down to the foundation.)

My space is still 5.1 (with dual subs). I have my moments where I think 2.2 would be so easy, headache free, potentially free of hdmi for audio, coupled
with the 54x96" AT screen. I also am not far off being fully ATMOS capable, with a recent upgrade of an eight channel surround speaker amp, and htpc
upgrades. I am a little leery about a bunch of speakers bouncing around a small room, but the upgrade was really about the next theater. In the same light,
I wouldn't reach for horned tweeters in such a small space. Domed tweeters have the capacity to play reference levels in such a small room. I have occasionally
caught horns beaming in a smaller room, and while it doesn't last long, it kind of is unsettling.

My vote for best small space layout is:
Wow, lots of folks here with dig out experience.

Yes the open attic space is great opportunity for some creative uses although I am very limited on how much weight I can put on the truss system; I do have some ideas on how to add some additional support if I want to put some big subs up there but thats an idea in progress.

I do debate on how crazy to be, 13.x.7(TFC) is an attractive option to build backer boxes for (with array of two side surrounds to maybe mitigate localization) and with a QSC QSYS unit I do have the processing available to light up those speakers. I'd start with only a few of those positions filled with speakers but have the option to expand as desired.

For non-LCR my currently plan is to use 8- or 10-inch coaxial drivers crossed around 2-300Hz to a 12" midbass. Coaxial to keep a single point source despite close seating, but crossing to a midbass to minimize the tweeter modulation from the woofer and so that each channel would be cleanly reference capable down to ~60Hz.
jjcook is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 02-14-2019, 06:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 8,830
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1989 Post(s)
Liked: 807
You don't need to go crazy.... For that small space, that could get crazy in very short order. All you would be building is a system, that will simply be loafing along.

At some point, you need to fit it all in the room, without eating up much space, nor introducing a lot of visual clutter.
Tedd is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 05-13-2019, 09:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DavidK442's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked: 726
Didn't realize you had started a build thread...or more aptly a "pre-build" thread almost a year ago.
Interested to see what direction this takes. Patiently subscribed.
DavidK442 is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 05-14-2019, 08:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,497
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1988 Post(s)
Liked: 1005
Hi Jeff. I also didn’t realize you had started a pre build thread.

As a long time reader of your posts and a fellow mirror flipper for 3 years we have a lot in common. Our rooms also have a lot in common size wise as do our tastes in HT with some simplicity of design.

My eyes to screen is about like your option W2 currently I have 3 seats but if and when I get new seating it will be 4 and with a slight curve as you show. All in one row is key for me as it keeps immersion constant and is much more social. The biggest reason for me to want it in a small theater is for IMAX and the upcoming IMAX enhanced media at least in screen size as I don’t plan on changing my sound anytime soon.

For me 8’ eyes to screen is right on the edge of acceptable. Like you I wish I had another 2’ and could then go slightly larger with the screen. At least now there are some good shorter throw projectors both 1080p and 4k that will work for IMAX in a 10’ deep room.

So for me it would be W2 with a screen area of 110” for IMAX and scope at a seating distance of 8’. I then made my inclined slide projector mounting so I could use the cheaper shorter throw projectors and do CIH+IMAX or some form of variable presentation that allowed smaller for TV, flat and quality that IMAX size was just to big for.

The prices you are getting for the dig out would go a long way in construction costs to maybe expand the footprint of the room you have now. To pick up a couple feet of depth the addition could even be cantilevered off the foundation you now have. Depending on how the trusses are run it might require a beam or not. Wouldn’t be anything close to the digging price IMO.

Good luck I will be following along. Some days I miss my mirror setup but most of the time I’m more happy with my new setup.

Bud
bud16415 is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 05-24-2019, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,082
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked: 188
Man you guys are patient -- and you are right it has turned into a pre-build thread -- at least I showed some progress last year by tearing out the drywall.

I've decided to forego the crawlspace dig out (aka project undermine my foundation) or other major modifications such as a cantilevered extension (in part as joists run parallel the wall to bump out). It is time to get moving on this. I had promised myself I would have the theater done before my sabbatical (starting mid-July) so that I wouldn't be tempted to use that time building but...

I'm going to go with a narrow layout, I want my distance from the screen and a rear surround sound field.

Here is a photo of @tn1krr 's 9.5'-wide room that gives me hope it will work with the right (custom if necessary) sofa.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2018-06-08 at 5.07.19 PM.png.png
Views:	29
Size:	898.0 KB
ID:	2571358  
wilfredent likes this.
jjcook is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off