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post #301 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 08:09 PM
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Just waiting on the isolators to show up Tuesday and ill be ready to give it a go.

If you double up, what keeps the platform and upper isolators from sliding right off the lower isolators? Round to round seems like it could slide off easily, no?
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post #302 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ @SteveCallas Looks great! Now, that's a rigid platform....lol. You won't believe what it's going to do for your theater experience....won't be long now!

I don't recommend doubling up on the isolators....at least for my platform, the TR got to be too much for me personally. Haven't really given it much thought on how to double them. I think GK said the same thing about doubling them also. Stability would be an issue. Doesn't hurt to experiment since the isolators are relatively inexpensive and easy to retrofit.

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post #303 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 08:38 PM
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How many isolators would you recommend for a 48 x 31 platform? Recliner is much larger than its steel base dimensions and weighs approximately 100lbs, i weigh about 210, and platform and driver will be maybe 70lbs. I was thinking 6 isolators.
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post #304 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 08:39 PM
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Yes they will slide out. I tried a screw and washer but lost TR. So I used Kerdi fix, it's a sealant I use at work that's incredibly strong.

Lexel has great adhesion and will not tear like silicone does. Assuming it is compatible. I'll check in morning if can find the tube I have and it is still good. Shelf life after opening isnt very long.

I also put velcro on bottom to keep it and the platform from moving
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post #305 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
How many isolators would you recommend for a 48 x 31 platform? Recliner is much larger than its steel base dimensions and weighs approximately 100lbs, i weigh about 210, and platform and driver will be maybe 70lbs. I was thinking 6 isolators.
The less isolators the better when in parallel (not stacked) under the platform. Springs in parallel are additive. The softer the BOSS suspension, the better the TR response. 4 isolators would be plenty, maybe even 3 if the platform is stable with only 3. I'd recommend 4 and maybe even 3 depending on stability and TR that you like. 3 will provide more TR than 4.

BTW...if you're platform was less rigid, I'd recommend 4, one under each leg to minimize platform flexing and keep it all moving as one monolithic member. With your rigid platform, you won't have to worry about flexing so you may be able to get away with 3 as long as it's stable when seated.

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post #306 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 08:57 PM
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400lbs on 3 scares me a bit - if my gf hops in my chair with me, then 530lbs, or 176lbs on each 2.25 inch piece of rubber. But i hear what you are saying on additive spring effect, so ill start with 4.
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post #307 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ I'm using 4 to lift one side of my back row riser about 1/2" above the carpet, that riser is ~800 lbs plus the couch and chair pieces, plus 4-5 people back there at a time. Haven't had any problems yet.
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post #308 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 09:08 PM
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So approximately 1800lbs on 4? What is holding up the other side?
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post #309 of 2903 Old 03-16-2019, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ The other side is just resting on carpet, so the isolotors aren't supporting the entire 1,800 lbs. I would have put isolators on the other side also, but my columns are resting on the platform on that end so it can't be raised without major surgery. Surprisingly, the BOSS effect is just as good back there, even with only one side of the platform raised....it's a very rigid platform (2x12's with 3/4 plywood on top, everything screwed, no nails) and you can't even tell it's raised on one end because it's 12 feet long and only raised 1/2" and the carpet hides the gap. No one even knows except for me...lol.
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post #310 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 05:02 AM
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Damn that pool looks amazing, love the BOSS Idea, seem quite cost effetive
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post #311 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I also put velcro on bottom to keep it and the platform from moving
Soon you're going to need velcro on YOUR bottom.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #312 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Damn that pool looks amazing, love the BOSS Idea, seem quite cost effetive
Buzniak.....Thanks! Yep, the BOSS was designed with lowest cost materials to deliver the biggest bang for buck! In this case, the biggest bang for butts...lol. Even better, it's probably the simplest and quickest speaker build you'll ever see on AVS! The single digit ULF and TR it delivers will bring your living room or theater alive in no time. All that for the cost of a weekly visit to the grocery store....at least for my family anyway...lol.
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post #313 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Soon you're going to need velcro on YOUR bottom.

Michael
LOL...one of those velcro suits comes to mind. I can see it now, suiting up to watch a movie, complete with an included kidney belt!
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post #314 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 08:17 AM
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One of these?
https://www.woojer.com/vest/


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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #315 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
@trhought Great idea, done and done.





Worked like you would expect, now I'm pretty strong down close to 15hz. When playing Bass I Love You the 17hz tone is very strong. If I crank the volume way up I can just barely feel 10hz.

Oh, I forgot to mention earlier that I am using a house curve eq on the minidsp so it is a bit of a cheat. Without that the low stuff is still pretty weak compared to above 30. However, since I was running that same EQ curve before with 1 isolator it is an apples to apples comparison to stacking 2 of the Crowson isolators.

I can definitely feel the difference just sitting on the chair and moving my weight around a little bit, the chair has a lot more "float" to it.
Would you mind sharing your secret house curve formula?

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post #316 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 10:17 AM
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Good news and bad news. First the bad news. The $29.99 sale was for one day only (Mar 15th). I went in for the price adjust on the 16th The good news is Best Buy honored the sale price for 4 of the 6 speakers! That comes out to $41.66/speaker so I'm happy with it!
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post #317 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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One of these?
https://www.woojer.com/vest/


Michael
Sweet! I can't let my 15 y.o. son see this! He would sooooooo want one of these!
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post #318 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 12:12 PM
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Gorilla when you says gobs of power to get it moving at 5hz, do you mean watts or more driver displacement or both?
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post #319 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 12:34 PM
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Its moving slower but excursion is higher which takes more power to push the suspension up and down. If I run it at 7 hz its taking all the amp can give and close to clipping. Its not as intense as 10hz, you can feel it but not near as much. At 20hz the amp is cruising. Multiples will cover it in place of 1.

I just wanted to show that moving your seat at 10hz is happening, and your not spending 5k to achieve it. Your'e also not making your house and neighbors suffer.
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8hz ULF TR for the masses and the Cashless. Like a BOSS


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post #320 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Would you mind sharing your secret house curve formula?
Hmm weird, I responded and now it's gone.

Anyway, currently I am using:

Freq: 18
Gain: 12
Q: .8

This ^ is after experimenting after stacking the isolators. I had a different boost before but not sure exactly what it was. None of this is set in stone and will likely change quite a bit after getting the new isolators.

I did find that moving the isolators closer to the edge of the plywood fixed my issue with feeling BOSS more in the legs than the rest of the chair.
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post #321 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
10hz sine without a chair with dbl iso's at -10mv

You would need gobs of power at 5hz to get it moving, at 10hz you can see it is and is more perceptible when seated. Dollar for dollar it can't be matched, heck 10-1 won't do it. That's saying something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wYp...ature=youtu.be
Jeff....Thanks for posting the video....looks familiar....lol. Did you see my video in post 43. Re-posting below for anyone who wants to see the JBL's in action down to 2Hz. This is with just 80 watts in our back row riser BOSS. The clicking you hear between frequency changes is in the original youtube video I used as a feed to the BOSS. My guess is the video author was using a sine wave frequency generator and the sound between frequencies is a mechanical selector knob being turned.

Nonetheless, the sensitivity of these JBL's in an open baffle arrangement is pretty amazing. We can't feel the response on our BOSS risers until 3Hz (both front BOSS and back BOSS), but I'm still amazed at the excursion at 2Hz.....all with only 80 watts per driver!

This video was shot at the beginning of some of my earlier work with the BOSS and the fact I was getting any movement at all below 10Hz was exciting and fueled many, many more experiments with these little beauties. Working on another concept build right now with these incredible little 12's that can!

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post #322 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
Its moving slower but excursion is higher which takes more power to push the suspension up and down. If I run it at 7 hz its taking all the amp can give and close to clipping. Its not as intense as 10hz, you can feel it but not near as much. At 20hz the amp is cruising. Multiples will cover it in place of 1.

I just wanted to show that moving your seat at 10hz is happening, and your not spending 5k to achieve it. Your'e also not making your house and neighbors suffer.
Jeff.....I think you'll be amazed with the JBL's. The original BOSS design as prescribed in post 29 will start moving your seats at 3Hz! 80 watts per JBL x 3, plus 4x8 sheet of plywood and isolators = $150

As many seats as you can fit on the 4x8 sheet of plywood and every one is feeling that single digit ULF and TR.

Think about that for a moment. If you have 4 chairs on that platform, that's $37.50 per seat! The price of dinner out for 2....lol

Like a BOSS!
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post #323 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Hmm weird, I responded and now it's gone.

Anyway, currently I am using:

Freq: 18
Gain: 12
Q: .8

This ^ is after experimenting after stacking the isolators. I had a different boost before but not sure exactly what it was. None of this is set in stone and will likely change quite a bit after getting the new isolators.

I did find that moving the isolators closer to the edge of the plywood fixed my issue with feeling BOSS more in the legs than the rest of the chair.
carp....I think you'll find no DSP will be needed once you get your isolators. I'm running both my BOSS platforms from a single sub out feed from my Onkyo AVR directly to my BOSS amp. Just select 80Hz LPF for LFE in the AVR and you should be golden! Of course, DSP can be added to taste, but I think you'll be very impressed with the single digit ULF and TR with the prescribed isos.

Regarding you iso placement, that makes a lot of sense and I was going to recommend experimenting with iso placements once you get them since your drivers are cantilevered behind your seating positions. That cantilever is going to cause your platform to bend more than it would if the drivers were spanned in the middle of the platform like a traditional BOSS riser. Moving the isos outward will help keep the platform from bending. That energy can now be used for more up and down movement which is what you want.

Below is a graphic to help illustrate. The top pic shows the isolator right below the chair leg, the triangle labeled B. This will cause the platform to bend. Moving that isolator out towards the edge of the platform as shown in the bottom pic will help keep the platform from bending as the JBL's are moving up and down. That energy can now provide more up and down motion from the JBL's which are shown in blue.

Hope this helps for anyone else considering a cantilever JBL mounting location behind or to the side of your seats.

Changing isolator location with JBL's behind the platform will increase up and down (z-axis) BOSS movement (the bottom picture is what you want to minimize BOSS platform bending):

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post #324 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Some videos of BOSS platforms in Action

Wanted to share a few videos for those new to this thread who may have missed them earlier in the first few pages.

Both BOSS platforms in action!

Pretty amazing for only $150 per row plus 80 watts per JBL!

Front Row BOSS (5 seats on 4x8 sheet of plywood) - Lone Survivor Chopper Drop Scene


Back Row BOSS (5 seats plus a third row bar on the back row BOSS riser) - Lone Survivor Chopper Drop Scene


Front Row BOSS - EOT intro


Back Row BOSS (bar table) - EOT intro

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post #325 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post

I just wanted to show that moving your seat at 10hz is happening, and your not spending 5k to achieve it. Your'e also not making your house and neighbors suffer.
Saving eardrums and keeping neighbors happy.....one theater at a time....like a BOSS!
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post #326 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
carp....I think you'll find no DSP will be needed once you get your isolators. I'm running both my BOSS platforms from a single sub out feed from my Onkyo AVR directly to my BOSS amp. Just select 80Hz LPF for LFE in the AVR and you should be golden! Of course, DSP can be added to taste, but I think you'll be very impressed with the single digit ULF and TR with the prescribed isos.

Regarding you iso placement, that makes a lot of sense and I was going to recommend experimenting with iso placements once you get them since your drivers are cantilevered behind your seating positions. That cantilever is going to cause your platform to bend more than it would if the drivers were spanned in the middle of the platform like a traditional BOSS riser. Moving the isos outward will help keep the platform from bending. That energy can now be used for more up and down movement which is what you want.

Below is a graphic to help illustrate. The top pic shows the isolator right below the chair leg, the triangle labeled B. This will cause the platform to bend. Moving that isolator out towards the edge of the platform as shown in the bottom pic will help keep the platform from bending as the JBL's are moving up and down. That energy can now provide more up and down motion from the JBL's which are shown in blue.

Hope this helps for anyone else considering a cantilever JBL mounting location behind or to the side of your seats.

Changing isolator location with JBL's behind the platform will increase up and down (z-axis) BOSS movement (the bottom picture is what you want to minimize BOSS platform bending):



Great explanation!

I will definitely experiment more with placement. When I first tried it out yesterday before I tried stacking the isolators I put them on the carpet because I wanted to make sure that the driver had enough room to not hit the carpet. However, when you suggested that I try stacking them I then put the stacks in the places where I cut small squares out of my carpet a couple years ago for where I had isolators for the Crowsons. These holes in the carpet happened to be closer to the edge of the plywood than where I initially tried the single isolators.

So... my future experimenting will include trying out the bare concrete cut outs (the rear holes in the carpet/pad are still in front - and to the sides obviously - of the driver) vs. moving the rear isolators back to where you have them in your diagram above. It will be no carpet vs. more optimal placement. I could of course cut more holes in the carpet.....

My wife happened to come in the room while I had the chair up yesterday and she saw the holes... and I panicked and yelled, "this is not for your eyes, you weren't meant to be here right now - look away!!!!!" or something to that effect. She wasn't mad, she lets me do whatever I want since she thinks of it as "my" room, however, at the same time I don't want her to think that I'm completely insane. I think I'm too late on that one.

So far there are things I like better about the Crowsons (dig a lot deeper with more power way down low below 15hz) and the NF sub (chest punch) BUT the BOSS has way more headroom above around 20hz than the Crowsons and feels more realistic and it also is more realistic than the NF sub.

The BOSS still doesn't feel as natural as the wave of bass coming from the 8 18's up front. The BOSS can move me more but doesn't feel quite as real and freaky (in a good way) if that makes sense. I'm sure it will never move my hair/clothes/etc. of give that wave of pressure. However, it is the closest thing I've found so far in fooling my brain into thinking I don't have any "tricks" connected to my seating. My Crowons will be in the classifieds if I get even a little bit of improvement with the other isolators.

One other nice side effect that I have found in my experimenting is that I get more seat movement from the front subs than I did before now that I'm on a double decker of isolators.
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post #327 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 06:02 PM
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Very tight fit, but i have clearance in seated and every reclined position. I hope this thing works!
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post #328 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Great explanation!

I will definitely experiment more with placement. When I first tried it out yesterday before I tried stacking the isolators I put them on the carpet because I wanted to make sure that the driver had enough room to not hit the carpet. However, when you suggested that I try stacking them I then put the stacks in the places where I cut small squares out of my carpet a couple years ago for where I had isolators for the Crowsons. These holes in the carpet happened to be closer to the edge of the plywood than where I initially tried the single isolators.

So... my future experimenting will include trying out the bare concrete cut outs (the rear holes in the carpet/pad are still in front - and to the sides obviously - of the driver) vs. moving the rear isolators back to where you have them in your diagram above. It will be no carpet vs. more optimal placement. I could of course cut more holes in the carpet.....

My wife happened to come in the room while I had the chair up yesterday and she saw the holes... and I panicked and yelled, "this is not for your eyes, you weren't meant to be here right now - look away!!!!!" or something to that effect. She wasn't mad, she lets me do whatever I want since she thinks of it as "my" room, however, at the same time I don't want her to think that I'm completely insane. I think I'm too late on that one.

So far there are things I like better about the Crowsons (dig a lot deeper with more power way down low below 15hz) and the NF sub (chest punch) BUT the BOSS has way more headroom above around 20hz than the Crowsons and feels more realistic and it also is more realistic than the NF sub.

The BOSS still doesn't feel as natural as the wave of bass coming from the 8 18's up front. The BOSS can move me more but doesn't feel quite as real and freaky (in a good way) if that makes sense. I'm sure it will never move my hair/clothes/etc. of give that wave of pressure. However, it is the closest thing I've found so far in fooling my brain into thinking I don't have any "tricks" connected to my seating. My Crowons will be in the classifieds if I get even a little bit of improvement with the other isolators.

One other nice side effect that I have found in my experimenting is that I get more seat movement from the front subs than I did before now that I'm on a double decker of isolators.
LOL about the surprise visit to the room. Yeah, fortunately for me, the theater is my room also to play around with. I do remember when I built the first BOSS concept build in our rear riser. My wife said, "you mean you are cutting holes in the wood and carpet we spent money to put there in the first place"...shaking her head. After completely hiding every hole and speaker with furniture pieces, there's no more complaints, especially after demoing our new found ULF and TR for the first time....priceless moments!

It sounds like your existing isolators are waaaaay too stiff!

Once you get the prescribed isolators, let me know what you think.....you won't believe the difference.

The Jello Gelatin GIF GK provided earlier isn't too far from what the platform should look and feel like with the soft isolators. And, yes, your FF subs will definitely have a bigger impact also on the total TR experience with the softer isos.

When it's all done, the BOSS should feel very natural and provide incredible ULF and TR into the single digits. Sounds like you're far from that experience right now......won't be long though!

Here's a video of Chris Young's BOSS platform also to give you an idea how soft the ride should be.

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post #329 of 2903 Old 03-17-2019, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Very tight fit, but i have clearance in seated and every reclined position. I hope this thing works!
Looks awesome....Great work Steve fitting it under the chair! Bet you can't wait for the isolators. I hope Amazon is keeping up with demand OK...seems like everyone is waiting on their isolators now.
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LOL about the surprise visit to the room. Yeah, fortunately for me, the theater is my room also to play around with. I do remember when I built the first BOSS concept build in our rear riser. My wife said, "you mean you are cutting holes in the wood and carpet we spent money to put there in the first place"...shaking her head. After completely hiding every hole and speaker with furniture pieces, there's no more complaints, especially after demoing our new found ULF and TR for the first time....priceless moments!

It sounds like your existing isolators are waaaaay too stiff!

Once you get the prescribed isolators, let me know what you think.....you won't believe the difference.

The Jello Gelatin GIF GK provided earlier isn't too far from what the platform should look and feel like with the soft isolators. And, yes, your FF subs will definitely have a bigger impact also on the total TR experience with the softer isos.

When it's all done, the BOSS should feel very natural and provide incredible ULF and TR into the single digits. Sounds like you're far from that experience right now......won't be long though!

Here's a video of Chris Young's BOSS platform also to give you an idea how soft the ride should be.

https://youtu.be/pluJsW_IOPg

I'm excited because it's really damn good now even with the stiffer isolators, I'll definitely update you when I get the new ones.

Yeah, I'm not getting that much movement down low like you and Chris are, I can see that for sure. Music is already a blast though!

You cut holes in the carpet for all of the isolators for all the seats and the riser? I think I may do that just so I know I'm getting as much as I possibly can.
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