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post #4231 of 4404 Old 12-02-2019, 09:30 PM
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I still need to figure out the limiter on the Behringer nx3000d because the only option I get there is in regards to dB and timing. Nothing regarding watts or ohms. I have my 6 jbls running in bridge mode and I have input that mode on the amp so not sure if the nx3000d needs to know how I have it wired? I looked through all of the menus and didn’t see anywhere to input ohms or watts/volts in the limit section - only dB.

Now, my thoughts on the BOSS....

All I have to say is WOW! I’m completely amazed and blown away. This has far exceeded any expectations I had coming into this project. I’m in love with the BOSS as is everyone in my family. My young kids even mentioned how it feels like you’re inside the movie and how real the feeling is. It’s extremely clean with zero distortion whatsoever. I don’t think I’m even driving them very hard. My main listening volume was a -15 as I was demoing some movie material. I have the gain on the behringer set just past the halfway point. I took a look under the couch and didn’t see too much excursion out of the drivers which only further proves the amazing power transfer to tactile response with these jbls and platform. I couldn’t be happier. Anyone on the fence with this should definitely pull the trigger and complete this project. You will not be disappointed. I spent easily a week on this project with many trips to Home Depot and would do it all again in a heartbeat. It’s also true that the platform is very quiet. If you sit on the unpowered side of the couch you would have no idea of all of the goodness happening on the other side. I can’t recommend this enough. My home theater now feels complete and I can only imagine how it will feel when I can properly limit the power and feel comfortable turning it up more - not to mention playing with the EQ settings for that additional <10hz material and BEQ. Definitely looking forward to that. I think another fun thing is that unsuspecting family/friends will be just blown away when we watch a movie. The platform is perfectly hidden under the couch and conceals those badboy Jbls. It’s really not something which you can comprehend until you’re experiencing it.

Tim, your advice and guidance has been consistently spot on throughout the build process and on that golden post 29. You have truly created something magical here. This will completely transform the HT industry. Again, can’t thank you enough.

If anyone has some good info on limiting power within the Behringer nx3000d, I would appreciate it.
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post #4232 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
PakZX3....Thanks. I've listened to music in my 2 channel room for many years and was completely happy. But, after discovering how good 5.1 music is, especially anything mixed by Steven Wilson, music with BOSS and BEQ has been an epiphany.

I still enjoy 2 channel, especially vinyl. But, there's nothing like kick drums and bass riffs enveloping your entire body while fully reclined in a relaxed position. All, while only listening at -20dB main volume. I can listen to music for hours now without any fatigue. It's actually quite therapeutic and I always feel better after long 5.1 music sessions whenever I can sneak them in.

That's been my experience with music and BOSS so far. Just wanted to share if you seek more demo material beyond movies
So I put some music on last night to enjoy the BOSS and I came to the realization that my Marty was no longer firing. A little alarmed, I spent around 3.5 hours troubleshooting. I think I've narrowed it down to a faulty speakon cable. I checked the wiring on both of my cables and they are both wired for 1+/1-, but I can only get the new cable to work with either my BOSS or my Marty.

Just to be sure I am not losing my sanity, here is how I have everything wired:

BOSS - 4 JBLs wired in series for 4 ohms; connector is wired 1+/1-.
Marty - 2 ohm Stereo Integrity driver wired for 4 ohms; connector is wired 1+/1-.

I shouldn't have an issue running the Marty & Boss off my single iNuke 3000 DSP, correct? Dual Mode, inputs on both Channel A & B so I can setup individual filters for each output channel. That would give me about 820W per channel according to the manual. If I rewire the Stereo Integrity Driver so it stays as 2ohms, I should be able to send 1520W to it, right?
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post #4233 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLViking2011 View Post
I still need to figure out the limiter on the Behringer nx3000d because the only option I get there is in regards to dB and timing. Nothing regarding watts or ohms. I have my 6 jbls running in bridge mode and I have input that mode on the amp so not sure if the nx3000d needs to know how I have it wired? I looked through all of the menus and didn’t see anywhere to input ohms or watts/volts in the limit section - only dB.

Now, my thoughts on the BOSS....

All I have to say is WOW! I’m completely amazed and blown away. This has far exceeded any expectations I had coming into this project. I’m in love with the BOSS as is everyone in my family. My young kids even mentioned how it feels like you’re inside the movie and how real the feeling is. It’s extremely clean with zero distortion whatsoever. I don’t think I’m even driving them very hard. My main listening volume was a -15 as I was demoing some movie material. I have the gain on the behringer set just past the halfway point. I took a look under the couch and didn’t see too much excursion out of the drivers which only further proves the amazing power transfer to tactile response with these jbls and platform. I couldn’t be happier. Anyone on the fence with this should definitely pull the trigger and complete this project. You will not be disappointed. I spent easily a week on this project with many trips to Home Depot and would do it all again in a heartbeat. It’s also true that the platform is very quiet. If you sit on the unpowered side of the couch you would have no idea of all of the goodness happening on the other side. I can’t recommend this enough. My home theater now feels complete and I can only imagine how it will feel when I can properly limit the power and feel comfortable turning it up more - not to mention playing with the EQ settings for that additional <10hz material and BEQ. Definitely looking forward to that. I think another fun thing is that unsuspecting family/friends will be just blown away when we watch a movie. The platform is perfectly hidden under the couch and conceals those badboy Jbls. It’s really not something which you can comprehend until you’re experiencing it.

Tim, your advice and guidance has been consistently spot on throughout the build process and on that golden post 29. You have truly created something magical here. This will completely transform the HT industry. Again, can’t thank you enough.

If anyone has some good info on limiting power within the Behringer nx3000d, I would appreciate it.

Couldn't agree more about the BOSS. It totally transforms movie watching into movie experiences. I turned off my BOSS platform last night to tweak and tune my subs in the front of the room, and quickly came to the realization that watching movies without the BOSS is not possible for me. All I could think about was how shallow and boring movies are without the BOSS. Happily, I was able to finish my tweaks and reconnect the BOSS and boom, ish got real again!
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post #4234 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Steve...Thanks for the reminder. I forgot you have a limitation on how many speaker wires are available. Hopefully you can pull the three speaker wires to your platform OK. If not, is there any location in the room that the Rotel would fit without calling attention to itself? You've probably already considered all options already. For what it's worth, I leave my BOSS amplifier on all the time to make the operation of the theater easier when I'm not around since it has no IR control. I could have placed it anywhere in the room with ventilation rather easily while just keeping it on all the time. It's passively cooled with heat sinks and no fans.

By chance, does the Rotel stay cool when left on but not doing any work? Is it quiet when on? If so, that may make it's placement in the room a bit easier not having to worry about powering it on all the time and making noise. Looking at the Rotel manual, it can be set to trigger also from a remote signal if you're not comfortable leaving it on all the time. It really depends on your overall goals and setup. Pulling the 3 speaker wires would certainly be the easiest path if possible. Fingers crossed.

Hope some of this feedback helps as you're brainstorming these "opportunities"
Tim,

Definitely helpful. I was originally planning to use 3 channels from the Rotel to power my three main L/C/R speakers, then use the extra 2 channels for something else - then the BOSS came along. So now it seems best to use 3 channels for the BOSS, leaving one of the 3 mains to be powered by the receiver instead of the external Rotel. I have to give this more thought.

Thanks again,
Steve
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post #4235 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 01:02 PM
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Got one of the JBL's before Black Friday and after reading this thread so much I figured why not do two while they're still $29.99? My local BB has these sitting on the shelf so if you're near Birmingham easy to go grab a couple. I built the plywood part last night in a rush thinking my amp would arrive, but alas UPS let me down. So I went ahead and soldered the connectors on and got it all installed. Hopefully the amp will be here today and I can see what the fuss is all about...
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post #4236 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLViking2011 View Post
I still need to figure out the limiter on the Behringer nx3000d because the only option I get there is in regards to dB and timing. Nothing regarding watts or ohms. I have my 6 jbls running in bridge mode and I have input that mode on the amp so not sure if the nx3000d needs to know how I have it wired? I looked through all of the menus and didn’t see anywhere to input ohms or watts/volts in the limit section - only dB.

Now, my thoughts on the BOSS....

All I have to say is WOW! I’m completely amazed and blown away. This has far exceeded any expectations I had coming into this project. I’m in love with the BOSS as is everyone in my family. My young kids even mentioned how it feels like you’re inside the movie and how real the feeling is. It’s extremely clean with zero distortion whatsoever. I don’t think I’m even driving them very hard. My main listening volume was a -15 as I was demoing some movie material. I have the gain on the behringer set just past the halfway point. I took a look under the couch and didn’t see too much excursion out of the drivers which only further proves the amazing power transfer to tactile response with these jbls and platform. I couldn’t be happier. Anyone on the fence with this should definitely pull the trigger and complete this project. You will not be disappointed. I spent easily a week on this project with many trips to Home Depot and would do it all again in a heartbeat. It’s also true that the platform is very quiet. If you sit on the unpowered side of the couch you would have no idea of all of the goodness happening on the other side. I can’t recommend this enough. My home theater now feels complete and I can only imagine how it will feel when I can properly limit the power and feel comfortable turning it up more - not to mention playing with the EQ settings for that additional <10hz material and BEQ. Definitely looking forward to that. I think another fun thing is that unsuspecting family/friends will be just blown away when we watch a movie. The platform is perfectly hidden under the couch and conceals those badboy Jbls. It’s really not something which you can comprehend until you’re experiencing it.

Tim, your advice and guidance has been consistently spot on throughout the build process and on that golden post 29. You have truly created something magical here. This will completely transform the HT industry. Again, can’t thank you enough.

If anyone has some good info on limiting power within the Behringer nx3000d, I would appreciate it.
FLViking.....Thanks for sharing your finished build picture and your initial impressions. That's one clean install! Nicely done.

Great to hear about your positive experience and satisfaction from your build. It brought a smile to my face when you said the entire family is enjoying it and their comment about "it feels like we're inside the movie". I love it!

You did a great job of keeping everything stealth for that surprise attack that is totally unexpected. In addition to your newfound joy in experiencing ULF TR, you will also enjoy all the cool responses as you demo it for family and friends for the first time! I really enjoy the look of surprise from first time visitors after experiencing the BOSS, especially those who have no idea what's happening to them as they're being thrashed around.

Enjoy.

Congrats!

Welcome to the BOSS family!

P.S. I found an excerpt from the inuke 3000 dsp manual regarding the power limiter function. I presume it's the same DSP engine as used in the NX3000. I'll post that verbiage below to see if that helps.
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post #4237 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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inuke nu-3000 dsp settings for power limiter functionality

Below is an excerpt from the Behringer iNuke DSP manual. Hopefully this is similar to the NX3000 DSP software and provides some clues as to where to start.

Also, I'd add, it's not absolutely necessary to apply the peak limiter function. It's really just a safety setting to prevent accidental overloading of the drivers.

To get started....I'd recommend listening to your favorite demo material that you're very familiar with. Start with the gain setting about in the middle and listen to the demo material at a higher than normal setting. Then, slowly increase the gain on the Berry until you hear some strange noises during some of the more violent scenes in the demo material. If you hear the strange noises happening, just back the gain down a bit and listen again. Once you get it dialed in for that demo, then try another demo scene without changing the main volume or the Berry gain. Listen again for any strange noises. If they occur, just back the gain down a bit more. Once it's set, you shouldn't have to worry about it unless, of course, someone increases the gain on the Berry by accident. That's where the power limiter provides some peace of mind.

Hope this helps.

Excerpt from the Behringer DSP software guide

Peak Limiter

The Peak Limiter helps protect your speakers by preventing signal spikes at the
amplifier's output stage.

The Peak Limiter controls include a dedicated virtual knob with matching
numerical displays in dBfs (decibels relative to full scale), Vp (Voltage(peak)),
as well as a rating in Watts, which appears only when you choose an Ohm setting
from the Load pulldown menu.

The BEHRINGER Amp Remote software also allows you to see the amplifier's total
output as a rating in Watts. This Watt rating allows you to connect speakers with
lower power ratings and then adjust the limiter to match the speakers' maximum
Watt rating.

Note: the Amp Remote software does not automatically detect or show the total
speaker load connected to the amplifier.

Controls for Hold and Release times appear near the bottom of the window, each
with a matching numerical display.

Programming the output limiter

1. Program the output limiter by using either of these two methods:

a) Rotate the Peak Limiter virtual knob counter-clockwise until you find an
adequate limiter setting for your sound system. The dBfs (decibels relative
to full scale) and Vp (Voltage [peak]) text boxes will each display equivalent
values as you rotate the virtual knob.

b) Type a limiter value directly into one of the text boxes below the Peak
Limiter virtual knob (dBfs or Vp). The Peak Limiter virtual knob will rotate to
a position matching the delay value you have entered.

2. Choose a Load value from the Load pulldown menu (none, 2, 4, 8, or 16 Ohms)
that matches the total combined load of all speakers connected to the
amplifier's outputs. If your combined speaker load in Ohms does not exactly
match 2, 4, 8, or 16 Ohms, choose the next lower Ohm setting from the Load
pulldown menu (i.e., if your total combined speaker load equals 4.25 Ohms,
select the 4 Ohm setting). When you select a Load setting, an additional Watt
rating for the limiter will appear above the Load pulldown menu.

3. Choose a Hold value either by rotating the Hold virtual knob or by entering a
value (in milliseconds) into the matching text box below the knob.

4. Choose a Release value either by rotating the Release virtual knob or by
entering a value (in milliseconds) into the matching text box below the knob.
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post #4238 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PakZX3 View Post
So I put some music on last night to enjoy the BOSS and I came to the realization that my Marty was no longer firing. A little alarmed, I spent around 3.5 hours troubleshooting. I think I've narrowed it down to a faulty speakon cable. I checked the wiring on both of my cables and they are both wired for 1+/1-, but I can only get the new cable to work with either my BOSS or my Marty.

Just to be sure I am not losing my sanity, here is how I have everything wired:

BOSS - 4 JBLs wired in series for 4 ohms; connector is wired 1+/1-.
Marty - 2 ohm Stereo Integrity driver wired for 4 ohms; connector is wired 1+/1-.

I shouldn't have an issue running the Marty & Boss off my single iNuke 3000 DSP, correct? Dual Mode, inputs on both Channel A & B so I can setup individual filters for each output channel. That would give me about 820W per channel according to the manual. If I rewire the Stereo Integrity Driver so it stays as 2ohms, I should be able to send 1520W to it, right?
PakZX3....Thanks for the details. Your thinking is correct and descriptions all sound good. Since the problem is following the speakon cable, that's probably the culprit. Only way to really know is to do a continuity check on that cable from pin-to-pin to see if there's any openings or shorts in the wire connecting those pins. This can be done with a multi-meter.

When you said, the 4 JBL's are wired in series for 4 ohms, I presume you mean they are wired in series/parallel for 4 ohms. If they're wired in series, that's 20 ohms and will limit the power on that one channel accordingly.

Hope you find a solution soon so you can enjoy both the Marty and BOSS at the same time.
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post #4239 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Got one of the JBL's before Black Friday and after reading this thread so much I figured why not do two while they're still $29.99? My local BB has these sitting on the shelf so if you're near Birmingham easy to go grab a couple. I built the plywood part last night in a rush thinking my amp would arrive, but alas UPS let me down. So I went ahead and soldered the connectors on and got it all installed. Hopefully the amp will be here today and I can see what the fuss is all about...
p3bham.....Thanks. Won't be long and you'll be introduced properly to the BOSS!

Welcome aboard.
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post #4240 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
Couldn't agree more about the BOSS. It totally transforms movie watching into movie experiences. I turned off my BOSS platform last night to tweak and tune my subs in the front of the room, and quickly came to the realization that watching movies without the BOSS is not possible for me. All I could think about was how shallow and boring movies are without the BOSS. Happily, I was able to finish my tweaks and reconnect the BOSS and boom, ish got real again!
Thanks for sharing your experiences m0j0. It's anecdotal stories like this that help others make informed decisions about whether a BOSS is good to help them meet their goals.

I sometimes turn off the BOSS amplifier for grins and wonder to myself...."how did we watch movies and listen to music for 20 years like this"
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post #4241 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
PakZX3....Thanks for the details. Your thinking is correct and descriptions all sound good. Since the problem is following the speakon cable, that's probably the culprit. Only way to really know is to do a continuity check on that cable from pin-to-pin to see if there's any openings or shorts in the wire connecting those pins. This can be done with a multi-meter.

When you said, the 4 JBL's are wired in series for 4 ohms, I presume you mean they are wired in series/parallel for 4 ohms. If they're wired in series, that's 20 ohms and will limit the power on that one channel accordingly.

Hope you find a solution soon so you can enjoy both the Marty and BOSS at the same time.
Pretty sure it's the one speakon cable, which doesn't make sense to me since I've been using it with my Marty for years now. But I'm going to diagnose it when I get home in a little bit to be sure. I'll also double check the wiring on the BOSS and the Marty driver while I'm at it. Pretty sure I have the BOSS wired for series/parallel at 4 ohms. My brain has been doing loops all day thinking about this.

My Cozy HT: Benq 2050HT ; Silver Ticket 115" 2.35 ; Full Marty Sub ; BOSS w/4 JBL's ; Definitive Technology Bookshelves 7 Channels ; iNuke 3000DSP ; HP Chromebox running Kodi w/Scopenox for CIH; Plex Media Server w/30 TB of media
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post #4242 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 03:17 PM
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Viberry results from my BOSS-back chair (yes, this is a test to make sure you've been paying attention ). Intro to Edge of Tomorrow, of course:

Best results, as expected, are with the sensor attached to the chair. A close second is reclined position with sensor under the shoulder blade. Vibrations under the leg are similar reclined and upright, also pretty much as expected.
Viberry is up, running and stable for anyone who's been waiting on the sidelines. Great fun awaits!
Michael
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post #4243 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 03:45 PM
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Hey Tim,

It's been a while since I've followed this thread, I've just been too busy enjoying the BOSS setup. I recently put 2 JBL drivers on the inside framing of my back row couch (which sits on my riser that has 4 JBL drivers in it). The effect is much improved, previously I felt significantly more in the riser itself through my feet than I did from the couch and now I can even things up by independently playing with the volume for the 2 subs in the couch and 4 subs in the riser.

In the front row I still have a total of 6 JBL's for the 4 seats and I was wondering if I could power all 6 of the front row drivers with a single channel of the inuke 3000dsp? I'm guessing not, that the impedance would be too low? I tried to look it up but all the diagrams seem to stop at 4 drivers.

The reason I ask is that in using another channel of one of my 3000's to power the drivers in the back row couch I am currently not using the Crowson on my main seat in the front row and I don't want to have to buy another amp if I can avoid that.

So, to sum it up I have 2 inuke 3000 dsp's. One of them powers all 6 in my front row, and the other powers the 4 in my riser and 2 in my couch.

thanks!
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post #4244 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 04:15 PM
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Critique my BOSS plan?

I think I'm ready to join the BOSS team... been reading a ton, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Can you guys take a look at my plan and see if it looks OK?

* Design for my front row mini-riser attached. I'll be supporting a 3-part sectional couch (each section is its own distinct reclining chair). I've violating the 2-foot isolator rule, but I could move the isolators forward or back to rectify that. Or add a third row of isolators in the middle.
* The drivers won't fit under the couch, so I'm using a cantilevered design. I think the edges of the cone *will* fit under the couch, though (shown in the diagram). I'd get a new piece of plywood if necessary, but I'd rather keep it as narrow as possible.
* Was thinking I'd go for the MB Quarts simply because I missed the JBL sale. Are the JBL's preferred or are the Quarts just fine?
* My 2nd row is a bit unconventional... I have a pretty low ceiling and my AV rack is directly behind the middle seat of the front-row sectional. So I was planning on putting a tall drafting stool on another mini-riser, one behind each of the left and right sections of the couch. Will those stools be OK on a vibrating mini-riser?
* My 6th seat is a single recliner way over on the other side of the room, and I plan to put a third mini-riser under this one.
* For the single chairs, I was planning to use more of the MB Quarts, but am open to using a 15" driver instead. Any pros/cons on this decision? If I go with 15's and pair the drivers in series, I'd need to pair a 12" with a 15" on one of the channels -- is this OK?
* My amp is an old 5.1 AVR -- a JVC RX-6020. Specs say it's rated for 100W per channel min RMS driven into 8 Ohms. I don't know how accurate these values are though. The amp is also driving my rear height Atmos speakers. I'd have a pair of drivers on each of the other 3 channels. Does this sound OK?
* I've currently got two Aura bass shakers screwed to my main platform. It gives enough shaking when the chairs are upright and power is fully maxed, but the effect is very muted when the chairs are reclined. Will the subs do a better job of shaking when the chairs are reclined?

Thanks so much for any opinions you can offer.
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post #4245 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PakZX3 View Post
Pretty sure it's the one speakon cable, which doesn't make sense to me since I've been using it with my Marty for years now. But I'm going to diagnose it when I get home in a little bit to be sure. I'll also double check the wiring on the BOSS and the Marty driver while I'm at it. Pretty sure I have the BOSS wired for series/parallel at 4 ohms. My brain has been doing loops all day thinking about this.
Try putting a meter on the sub end of the cable to see if juice is flowing. If there's not check the cable for damage and open up the speakon connector. If it's in the connector you might be able to fix it.

If it has power check your the NL4 terminal and make sure the connector is plugging in correctly. I ran into an issue on Sunday when I was setting up my VNF boxes. Only one side was playing. (I'm used 4 conductor cable bring both channels over) After futzing with everything for an hour, thinking I had a wiring issue, I found that the connector wasn't locking into the terminal correctly. As soon as I fixed that everything worked perfectly. It still seems odd to me that channel 1 would play but not channel 2 with the connector not plugging in correctly.

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BOSS & Marty back up and running! Speakon cable was wired wrong. Now on to tuning and making sure I have a power limit set.

My Cozy HT: Benq 2050HT ; Silver Ticket 115" 2.35 ; Full Marty Sub ; BOSS w/4 JBL's ; Definitive Technology Bookshelves 7 Channels ; iNuke 3000DSP ; HP Chromebox running Kodi w/Scopenox for CIH; Plex Media Server w/30 TB of media
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post #4247 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Viberry results from my BOSS-back chair (yes, this is a test to make sure you've been paying attention ). Intro to Edge of Tomorrow, of course:

Best results, as expected, are with the sensor attached to the chair. A close second is reclined position with sensor under the shoulder blade. Vibrations under the leg are similar reclined and upright, also pretty much as expected.
Viberry is up, running and stable for anyone who's been waiting on the sidelines. Great fun awaits!
Michael
Michael....Thanks for the update on your BOSS back. I wish I had room for some JBL's in my couch backs. That would be the ultimate for VNF or would it be VVNF Great to hear you're enjoying your BOSS setup. To date, I think you're still the only one with a JBL mounted in your chair back....like a BOSS
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post #4248 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey Tim,

It's been a while since I've followed this thread, I've just been too busy enjoying the BOSS setup. I recently put 2 JBL drivers on the inside framing of my back row couch (which sits on my riser that has 4 JBL drivers in it). The effect is much improved, previously I felt significantly more in the riser itself through my feet than I did from the couch and now I can even things up by independently playing with the volume for the 2 subs in the couch and 4 subs in the riser.

In the front row I still have a total of 6 JBL's for the 4 seats and I was wondering if I could power all 6 of the front row drivers with a single channel of the inuke 3000dsp? I'm guessing not, that the impedance would be too low? I tried to look it up but all the diagrams seem to stop at 4 drivers.

The reason I ask is that in using another channel of one of my 3000's to power the drivers in the back row couch I am currently not using the Crowson on my main seat in the front row and I don't want to have to buy another amp if I can avoid that.

So, to sum it up I have 2 inuke 3000 dsp's. One of them powers all 6 in my front row, and the other powers the 4 in my riser and 2 in my couch.

thanks!
carp...welcome back!

If your front row is still open baffle with no back pressure on the JBL's when they're moving at max excursion below 10Hz, one channel should drive them just fine. Just wire those 6 front row JBL's in series/parallel for a total of 6 ohms and both the JBL's and the Berry will be happy. This setup may feel different than your current setup for the front row, especially if you're running those 6 JBL's higher than 80 watts today and are approaching Xmech. Some folks are pushing 110-120 watts per JBL and reaching Xmech. If you're one of those, you may notice a difference with the lower power and less headroom with 1 channel.

Only one way to really know and that is to try it to see if you can feel the difference. If not, you're good to go.
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post #4249 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I'm ready to join the BOSS team... been reading a ton, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. Can you guys take a look at my plan and see if it looks OK?

* Design for my front row mini-riser attached. I'll be supporting a 3-part sectional couch (each section is its own distinct reclining chair). I've violating the 2-foot isolator rule, but I could move the isolators forward or back to rectify that. Or add a third row of isolators in the middle.
* The drivers won't fit under the couch, so I'm using a cantilevered design. I think the edges of the cone *will* fit under the couch, though (shown in the diagram). I'd get a new piece of plywood if necessary, but I'd rather keep it as narrow as possible.
* Was thinking I'd go for the MB Quarts simply because I missed the JBL sale. Are the JBL's preferred or are the Quarts just fine?
* My 2nd row is a bit unconventional... I have a pretty low ceiling and my AV rack is directly behind the middle seat of the front-row sectional. So I was planning on putting a tall drafting stool on another mini-riser, one behind each of the left and right sections of the couch. Will those stools be OK on a vibrating mini-riser?
* My 6th seat is a single recliner way over on the other side of the room, and I plan to put a third mini-riser under this one.
* For the single chairs, I was planning to use more of the MB Quarts, but am open to using a 15" driver instead. Any pros/cons on this decision? If I go with 15's and pair the drivers in series, I'd need to pair a 12" with a 15" on one of the channels -- is this OK?
* My amp is an old 5.1 AVR -- a JVC RX-6020. Specs say it's rated for 100W per channel min RMS driven into 8 Ohms. I don't know how accurate these values are though. The amp is also driving my rear height Atmos speakers. I'd have a pair of drivers on each of the other 3 channels. Does this sound OK?
* I've currently got two Aura bass shakers screwed to my main platform. It gives enough shaking when the chairs are upright and power is fully maxed, but the effect is very muted when the chairs are reclined. Will the subs do a better job of shaking when the chairs are reclined?

Thanks so much for any opinions you can offer.
kennethav.....Thanks for all the details. You're doing your homework

Your design for the front row looks awesome. No need to add a third row of isolators. The more isolators the less bounce effect. I wouldn't worry too much about going over the 2 foot rule. You're still close enough to minimize bending of the platform. Just be sure to use 3/4" plywood and you'll be all set. For the back isolator placement for your front row, since your cantilever drivers will be very close to the back legs, I'd recommend placing those isolators underneath the back legs. Since the center line of the drivers is so close to the legs themselves, there won't be much bending of the platform.

The MBQuarts are just fine and with the smaller profile, they are a bit easier to work with regarding fitment under the furniture. Having said that, the JBL's can normally be purchased for about $60-80 even when not on sale. The last time I checked, the MBQuart DS1-304 was about that same price and maybe slightly higher. Both will do great in a BOSS setup.

For the second row stools, I have some experience with bar stools with padded seats and wooden armrests on my back BOSS platform. They feel great, especially with my feet on the foot rests of the stools and off the platform and my arms resting on the wooden arm rests.

A mini-riser under the 6th seat will work great.

As far as mixing different drivers on the same circuit, I'd recommend not doing this. Only because 1 driver will need more power than the other to reach it's full potential. And, what's good for that driver may be too much or not enough for the other driver on the same circuit. Having the same drivers from the same manufacturer with the same impedance on each circuit is important to avoid these in-efficiencies. You could do it, but it won't be maximizing the extra money you've spent on the additional shaker potential if that makes sense.

Regarding the JVC AVR, 2 JBL's per channel will definitely work. This will provide about 50 watts per driver. You'll lose some TR below 10Hz with this setup, but the experience will still be great. Since you're considering the MBQuart's already, I'd recommend the DS1-304 model mentioned earlier. These drivers only need 20 watts each to reach their full potential unlike the JBL's which need 80 watts to reach their full potential.

Regarding using a BOSS platform when reclined. The answer is absolutely do it if you can. This is a discovery I recently made with my BOSS platforms. For the last year or so, I would always watch upright. We have 1 recliner and I remembered some of my VNF testing last summer delivered a more consistent experience when reclined. Still not perfect with VNF which is why I pursued another solution and the BOSS was born.

But, after remembering that reclined experience, I wondered if the same would happen with BOSS. The answer is a resounding YES. The same thing applies to BOSS, but the feeling is much more natural because your entire body is being enveloped by the TR from neck to upper legs instead of just certain parts of your body when sitting upright. Once you get everything setup, I highly recommend an LPF of 80Hz for the BOSS platform when fully reclined. The chest slam is amazing and combined with the ULF wobble in the single digits, the effect is very pleasing.

It's hard to describe....the best analogy I can think of is imagine dipping your foot into a hot tub and how good it feels. Then, you enter the hot tub and sit down in one of the seats, it feels even better. Then, if the hot tub allows, you lay down in the hot tub recliner and the experience is even better, especially if you have massaging jets on the bottom of the hot tub recliner. The same with BOSS, your entire body is immersed in TR goodness when fully reclined.

Anyway, sorry about the tangent....I'm loving my BOSS's so much these days in a reclined position. I can't say enough good things about the experience.

As always, as more questions come up during your design just let us know.

Hope this helps.
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post #4250 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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BOSS & Marty back up and running! Speakon cable was wired wrong. Now on to tuning and making sure I have a power limit set.
Great to hear PakZX3.....mission accomplished! Enjoy.
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post #4251 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 08:56 PM
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carp...welcome back!

If your front row is still open baffle with no back pressure on the JBL's when they're moving at max excursion below 10Hz, one channel should drive them just fine. Just wire those 6 front row JBL's in series/parallel for a total of 6 ohms and both the JBL's and the Berry will be happy. This setup may feel different than your current setup for the front row, especially if you're running those 6 JBL's higher than 80 watts today and are approaching Xmech. Some folks are pushing 110-120 watts per JBL and reaching Xmech. If you're one of those, you may notice a difference with the lower power and less headroom with 1 channel.

Only one way to really know and that is to try it to see if you can feel the difference. If not, you're good to go.
Thanks sounds good, I'll give it a shot.

Should I wire them:

2 sets of 3 in series with the 2 sets in parallel
or
2 sets of 3 in parallel with the 2 sets in series.
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post #4252 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks sounds good, I'll give it a shot.

Should I wire them:

2 sets of 3 in series with the 2 sets in parallel
or
2 sets of 3 in parallel with the 2 sets in series.
Interesting question....I was thinking of the first option which will be 6 ohms and allow the amp to run cooler but with reduced power to the JBL's. The second option provides a 2.66 ohm load to the amp which is about ~133 watts per JBL for one channel of the 3000, but the amp will run hotter. It's rated at 2 ohms per channel so I'd try the second option if you want to keep the power close to what you have now. If you notice the fan running a lot more or the amp is clipping more, then go with the first wiring option.
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I know its been discussed many times before but how much of a gain do you get by going from 3 to 4 drivers ?


I have 3 15" 4ohm DVC Clarions with 1.5 times the JBL shaker potential and can get an identical 4th one secondhand but want to see if it is worthwhile because it is still expensive.


I did try doing a search but so many results come up you may as well just read the whole thread (again) !!
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post #4254 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I know its been discussed many times before but how much of a gain do you get by going from 3 to 4 drivers ?


I have 3 15" 4ohm DVC Clarions with 1.5 times the JBL shaker potential and can get an identical 4th one secondhand but want to see if it is worthwhile because it is still expensive.


I did try doing a search but so many results come up you may as well just read the whole thread (again) !!
niterida.....Thanks. There's no easy answer to that question because it depends on the BOSS design and alignment of masses. In general, going from 3 to 4 won't gain that much due to more holes in the platform causing it to bend more and losing energy. But, if platform bending is mitigated, you can expect some increase in TR, but probably not enough to make an overwhelming difference if you're using the 30-40 durometer rubber to isolate it.

If your isolators are stiffer or not placed properly aligned with the moving mass of the BOSS system, then more shaker potential is needed. When I say moving mass of the BOSS system, that means both the driver mass moving and your body mass moving. Both of these masses moving represent energy and the more mass bouncing, the more energy the system has. That's why the isolator placement and durometer is so important in any BOSS design. It really depends on your design in order to be able to fully answer the question.

The bigger factors in BOSS performance is your body mass and how it's aligned with the drivers, especially for mini-risers which don't weight very much in general. A properly designed mini-riser BOSS will behave with more energy when loaded with weight than it will without the added weight.

For a full size riser, they tend to be a lot more heavy and have a natural frequency that's quite low already when floating on the rubber. So, body mass becomes less important with full size risers and they behave with lots of energy even with just modest shaker potential when "floating" on 30-40 durometer rubber.

For example, my full size BOSS riser is about 1,000 lbs without anyone on it and as much as 1,800 pounds with 5 people sitting on the couch back there. The TR is so much at lower frequencies, loaded and unloaded, that I have to place about 50 lbs of magazines on top of my temporary bar table back there to keep it from bouncing off the platform. That's with just 3 JBL's providing the shaker potential for that 1,000 lb riser. Not only does mass reduce the natural frequency of the BOSS system (which is a very good thing for low frequency wobble) but it also provides more energy for the system once it's set in motion, especially around the natural frequency of the system.
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post #4255 of 4404 Old 12-03-2019, 11:21 PM
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Thanks Tim - looks like I won't need the 4th driver then - building a full size riser floating on inner tubes with 3 seater electric recliners that weigh a tonne - sorry 'ton'
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post #4256 of 4404 Old 12-04-2019, 12:11 AM
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So, to sum it up I have 2 inuke 3000 dsp's. One of them powers all 6 in my front row, and the other powers the 4 in my riser and 2 in my couch.
thanks!
Hey Sheldon, couple ways you can try:
1. a) Bridge the first 3000D to drive your front row (6 drivers wired in series/parallel for a 6ohm load) - Plenty of power from the 3000 in bridged mode.
b) Do the same for your rear row using your second 3000D. You will lose the independent adjustment between your couch and the riser. it might work just fine, idk but worth a try. Again, plenty of power from the 3000 in bridged mode.
2. Same as 1a above for your front row.
For your rear row, use one channel from the second 3000D to drive the 4 drivers riser wired for 4ohm (series/parallel wiring), then use the other channel to drive the 2 drivers couch wired for 8ohm (series wiring). This way, you will have independent adjustments between your riser and couch if needed.
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post #4257 of 4404 Old 12-04-2019, 05:40 AM
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I know its been discussed many times before but how much of a gain do you get by going from 3 to 4 drivers ?
One advantage is that you go from 12 ohms to 4, so you'll have much more power available.
Michael
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I got 23/32 in. plywood for free, will this be strong enough?
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post #4259 of 4404 Old 12-04-2019, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tim - looks like I won't need the 4th driver then - building a full size riser floating on inner tubes with 3 seater electric recliners that weigh a tonne - sorry 'ton'
niterida.....Thanks. Your design sounds awesome.

floaty isolators - check
A full size heavy riser - check
recliners - check

Looking forward to learning more about your build and your impressions afterwards! Make sure to try some of your favorite demo material when fully reclined and an LPF of 80Hz after getting things setup.

As always, let us know of any questions as your build matures.
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post #4260 of 4404 Old 12-04-2019, 06:36 AM
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One advantage is that you go from 12 ohms to 4, so you'll have much more power available.
Michael

The drivers I have are dual VC so it would be 2.66, 6 or 24ohms with 3 drivers and 2, 8 or 32ohms with 4 drivers so I guess no benefit there really ?
I only need 80w per driver and I have a 3000dsp to drive them so I don't think power is an issue.


If I could just jump in the car and drive 10minutes to get it I would just buy it and do it I would, but .........


I live in such a remote location with limited access to affordable gear , but this driver I can get is 400km away and I need them to deliver it to a mate and send him the money and then wait until either he or I travel to each others town - a lot of hassle if not much gain.
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