The Hideaway Theater - Page 152 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4531 of 6625 Old 12-20-2019, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post
While I haven’t built and set up my BOSS platform yet, I’m guessing the answer will be...Nah!

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You'll be pleasantly surprised after building and experiencing your BOSS

I'm not advocating BOSS can replace subwoofers. But, you'll soon realize your subwoofers needed a lot of help in delivering the experience that BOSS brings to the table. Even chest punch can be dramatically improved if sitting reclined and using an LPF of 80Hz.

The trick with direct TR devices is having the ability to deliver linear TR across the entire 1-120Hz LFE range. Then, being able to dial down that TR in certain frequency ranges because it's so powerful. The other trick is to orient that TR relative to your body for it to feel natural like we would experience those events in the real world.

Subwoofers do a great job of delivering that "real world" experience because they create sound waves just like we hear/feel in the real world. The challenge is having enough subwoofers to create "real world" SPL strong enough for us to feel. Then, once you have enough sound power to deliver that feel like we experience in the real world, it's way too loud for extended listening more than a few seconds.

Think of listening to a canon blast from 10 yards away while wearing hearing protection. The TR and chest punch was incredibly powerful from the shock wave of the blast and feels so awesome without hurting your ears.

That shock wave from the blast can be recreated with subwoofers and feel quite natural. The problem is no one watches movies with hearing protection and that SPL starts to be uncomfortable fast without hearing protection.

That's where direct TR devices fill the hole. They allow us to experience "punch" from shock waves like we feel in the real world without the uncomfortable SPL that normally happens with these events in the real world. The challenge is getting that punch to feel natural. And, with an LPF of 80Hz and fully reclined, I've found that punch is incredibly life like and powerful with BOSS like it should be without hurting my ears.

Pretty cool stuff
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post #4532 of 6625 Old 12-20-2019, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by varun432 View Post
I am using a steep filter @80 hz and not below.. The steep filter also helps with less bleed on the other side..
I am getting lots of chest thump from 40-80 which I so much missed earlier...
The low frequency 20-40 tactical was always there from near field subs sitting on a platform.., but now with boss and beq (mainly boss, as without beq too its on a whole new level) low frequency rumble is at another level..

Also using recliners over the boss platform..

Alone boss is good,, but u know something is missing.
And yes as someone said boss plus 1 sub and you feel it's complete..
That's awesome to hear varun! Sounds like you have everything dialed in nicely already!

Great to hear you're getting that chest thump now with BOSS that you were missing with your old setup....recliners make a big difference with the chest slam and an LPF of 80Hz.

Thanks for the update on your BOSS experience. Enjoy!
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post #4533 of 6625 Old 12-20-2019, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gtoboss View Post
I have a couch that is right at 9ft wide and finding plywood that long is proving to be difficult and expensive. My couch is made up of 3 separate chairs (metal frames) that link together with pins in slanted grooves and there is some movement between each seat so I was wondering if making three separate platforms (1 driver on each) would be doable. My concerns is that the load difference on the platforms when different people sit in each seat might have some ill effects. I realize I could overlap 2 pieces of plywood and make it longer but I was trying to keep my chairs as low as possible to keep it as stealth as possible (WAF).
You’ll need to shop around a bit at lumber stores for the 10ft plywood sheets. I called 10 different lumber stores before finding one which had a reasonable price for them. I had to get 3 10ft sheets. Found a place that was selling each sheet for $60. It’s russian birch. Got lucky with that find but they’re out there if you take the time to search. Then you can cut it to shape
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post #4534 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 12:41 AM
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Merry Boss-mas. Watched 6 underground on Netflix and wasn’t expecting a whole lot in terms of bass due to it not being a Blu-ray. But wow, it was out of control. The Boss was unleashed in bass bliss during this movie! I highly recommend people checking that movie out on Netflix. Amazing. Has digital streaming content really caught up to Blu-ray in terms of sound quality? If so, I’ll start checking out more streamed movies. Is there a recommended movie server/streaming service that I should be checking out? Also getting a minidsp for Christmas which I’ll be using for BEQ. Looking forward to that!
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post #4535 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 01:44 AM
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The Hideaway Theater

I’m about to carpet the floor where the riser will be on. (6” heigh full boss riser on rubber feet). The base floor is a cemented floor that contains the heating system.

The pad is fibrous, 1/4” thick, carpet still to be decided.

What is best for the place where the riser will go:

1) just carpet the entire floor (pad plus carpet) and place the riser on top of that.
2) only do padding where the riser will go
3) keep the cemented floor with nothing on it where the riser will go

Number 3 saves some carpet but requires some effort when laying the carpet. However I’m looking for the solution that works best for the riser, regardless of cost or amount of work.

The riser itself will be carpeted too.

What option would you recommend?

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post #4536 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 04:18 AM
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I think I may have found my next project.

The JBL speakers are not that cheap in Canada and seem hard to find. My local audio/video has a few subwoofer options. Are any of these ok to use?

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...=30&sku=TN1204

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...30&sku=TSW304R

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...30&sku=TSW306R

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...30&sku=TSW127M

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...=30&sku=S300S4

https://www.visions.ca/product-detai...d=30&sku=DS303

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post #4537 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLViking2011 View Post
Merry Boss-mas. Watched 6 underground on Netflix and wasn’t expecting a whole lot in terms of bass due to it not being a Blu-ray. But wow, it was out of control. The Boss was unleashed in bass bliss during this movie! I highly recommend people checking that movie out on Netflix. Amazing. Has digital streaming content really caught up to Blu-ray in terms of sound quality? If so, I’ll start checking out more streamed movies. Is there a recommended movie server/streaming service that I should be checking out? Also getting a minidsp for Christmas which I’ll be using for BEQ. Looking forward to that!
Merry Boss-mas! Haven't check out 6 underground yet, but it looks fun. Heard a lot of good things about it

Until Santa brings your mini, some other Netflix movies/series that come to mind that had great sound design without BEQ are:

1) Love, death, robots - an animated series, not recommended for kids though
2) Dark - a series similar to Stranger Things except in Germany
3) Wheelman - a getaway driver, bank robbery movie
4) Altered Carbon - sci-fi series

Amazon has some that left a good impression:

1) The Boys - superhero series with adult themes, not for kids either
2) Jack Ryan - action/spy series

Streaming certainly offers the fidelity to reproduce even the most demanding audio mixes for sure. The streaming bit rates these days offer plenty of headroom for even the most demanding material. How the streaming content sounds is mostly dependent on the sound design from my experience. This is true for Blu-Rays also from my experience. Unfortunately, just because a movie has the highest bit rate audio, highest channel count and carries a 3D audio badge (name your favorite flavor), doesn't mean it's going to sound great. The experience delivered still requires a good sound design and that is entirely up the film mixer.

Some films are better mixed than others. Even though there's standards in the film industry regarding mixing levels, speaker placement in the studio, sound stage guidelines, etc. there's still an art form to putting it all together to deliver a cohesive, believable and natural experience. This is especially true with LFE content and how the sound designer uses different combinations of LFE frequencies to deliver a "moving" experience....literally and figuratively.

Like you, I continue to be blown away by streaming content, both audio and video. It's definitely reached the level of parity from my perspective, especially with the more efficient and higher fidelity compression algorithms these days. That combined with the ever increasing bandwidth capability in most homes, certainly doesn't bode well for physical media. I think there will always be a demand for physical media but it will be more for collectors and more "goodies' will likely be packaged with the physical media to cater to that market.

Lots of options for consumers which is always a good thing
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post #4538 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ijansch View Post
I’m about to carpet the floor where the riser will be on. (6” heigh full boss riser on rubber feet). The base floor is a cemented floor that contains the heating system.

The pad is fibrous, 1/4” thick, carpet still to be decided.

What is best for the place where the riser will go:

1) just carpet the entire floor (pad plus carpet) and place the riser on top of that.
2) only do padding where the riser will go
3) keep the cemented floor with nothing on it where the riser will go

Number 3 saves some carpet but requires some effort when laying the carpet. However I’m looking for the solution that works best for the riser, regardless of cost or amount of work.

The riser itself will be carpeted too.

What option would you recommend?
ijansch.....Thanks for the details of your setup. I'm a big fan of keeping things simple. I'd just carpet everything as normal including the padding. This will allow you flexibility down the road for difference furniture placement etc. Never know what the future will bring in our crazy hobby!

Placing the isolators on the carpet won't be a problem. The BOSS experience will be the same as long as the isolators are underneath and there's some breathing room for the drivers underneath. If the carpet and padding is thick, just get the carpet savers in post 29 and those can be used anywhere you may move the platform in the future. Those basically "poke" through your carpet and padding down to the floor below providing a solid foundation for your BOSS platform.

Hope this helps.
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post #4539 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
JonnyVee.....welcome aboard!

I modeled the Pioneer TS-W306R awhile ago and it's a very capable driver. It has a shaker potential of .85x which is about the same as the baseline JBL driver. This driver only requires 30 watts to reach Xmax of 11.7 mm so it won't take much power either which is a good thing. Especially, if you have a spare AVR or amplifier laying around and want to use that for your BOSS.

Hope this helps.

As always, let us know of any questions as your design comes into focus.
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post #4540 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Do it @toothboy! I have 1 MB Quart mounted in one section of the sectional, as I mounted directly to the couch like you can see that @Archaea has done. Then I have 3 of the JBL's mounted to the sectional as well. The other 2 are ends that recline, so I working on possibly opening the back, and directly mount them to the back...
One of the JBL's is mounted facing down( no clearance) but the other 2 that are in the turn of the L sectional are facing up. I love that I found this thread, as the brings movie watching a whole new level of enjoyment.

Bit the bullet and going direct mount. Just got 1 MB Quart to play around with first, then once I figure out how (and to be honest, IF) I can do it, I'll outfit the other 3 seats. Will post some pics when I'm done!

Another setup question...I see people talking about setting a "limiter" (I'm assuming a VOLTAGE limiter?)? Is this to protect the subs from receiving too much power?

Is this something I can set with my MiniDSP? I've been looking around and I can't seem to find any info on how to set voltage limits on the MiniDSP. Surely this is possible.


Thanks

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post #4541 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
JonnyVee.....welcome aboard!

I modeled the Pioneer TS-W306R awhile ago and it's a very capable driver. It has a shaker potential of .85x which is about the same as the baseline JBL driver. This driver only requires 30 watts to reach Xmax of 11.7 mm so it won't take much power either which is a good thing. Especially, if you have a spare AVR or amplifier laying around and want to use that for your BOSS.

Hope this helps.

As always, let us know of any questions as your design comes into focus.
Awesome. Thank you. I won’t be building until after winter when I can use my power tools in the garage. Until then I’ll be buying the drivers, used amp or AVR ... plus getting advice.

2020 appears to be the year of the bass upgrade. Might also sell my SVS PC-2000 (which is behind the sofa for some NF affect) and upgrade to a PSA V1512DF - but put that in front to the right of the screen.

Here’s my first set of questions:

1. How many drivers for a 4-seat sofa that is almost 9’ in length? 3 or 4?
2. The sofa had 4” legs, so it’s mini riser for me. However, can I do a full riser if I remove sofa’s feet with the drivers then going into the sofa cavity?
3. This won’t affect the SVS subwoofer output?
4. I have a x4400h. If I go dual v1512s - what’s the best way to connect dual subs plus BOSS?
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Audio: Denon x4400H 5.1.4 - Infinity R162 L/R, Infinity RC263 centre, Kef T101 surrounds, Kef Ci160er rear atmos, Energy V-Mini - front atmos, PSA v1512df (x2) & BOSS w/4 12” Subs
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post #4542 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
1. How many drivers for a 4-seat sofa that is almost 9’ in length? 3 or 4?
2. The sofa had 4” legs, so it’s mini riser for me. However, can I do a full riser if I remove sofa’s feet with the drivers then going into the sofa cavity?
3. This won’t affect the SVS subwoofer output?
4. I have a x4400h. If I go dual v1512s - what’s the best way to connect dual subs plus BOSS?
1. I'd go 4 drivers. You can space them nicely across that span and 4 make for nice wiring that can be run off one channel of an NX3000.

2. Mainly choice. if you do the mini riser you'll be sitting about 2" higher. If you remove the legs you can make the riser with 2x4s with the ply on top and keep about the same height. The larger riser will be a bit stiffer and probably feel a little better but you can't go wrong with either choice. It's comes down to your sitting height and how much you want to build.

3. It partially depends on what you do for #2 and what your couch looks like underneath. The BOSS itself doesn't generate much SPL which is what would effect your SVS. If you do the larger riser with the legs off the couch might effectively form a box and give some SPL, mine does this. If it does you can run REW and integrate the the SPL from the BOSS the same way as you would any other sub to make sure you have a good combined response from the BOSS interacting with the SVS.

4. Your best bet would be to get a miniDSP 2x4HD. I'd recommend it even if you don't go dual 1512s. With one you have more control over the AVR to EQ, set crossovers, etc. and you can also BEQ with it to get the most out of your subs and BOSS.
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post #4543 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
Awesome. Thank you. I won’t be building until after winter when I can use my power tools in the garage. Until then I’ll be buying the drivers, used amp or AVR ... plus getting advice.

2020 appears to be the year of the bass upgrade. Might also sell my SVS PC-2000 (which is behind the sofa for some NF affect) and upgrade to a PSA V1512DF - but put that in front to the right of the screen.

Here’s my first set of questions:

1. How many drivers for a 4-seat sofa that is almost 9’ in length? 3 or 4?
2. The sofa had 4” legs, so it’s mini riser for me. However, can I do a full riser if I remove sofa’s feet with the drivers then going into the sofa cavity?
3. This won’t affect the SVS subwoofer output?
4. I have a x4400h. If I go dual v1512s - what’s the best way to connect dual subs plus BOSS?
@JonnyVee --

Love the room. Very tasteful and love the Creepshow stuff.
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post #4544 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 04:36 PM
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I'm very much in the same boat as @JonnyVee . Will join the BOSS bandwagon in a couple months doing @Archaea 's furniture BOSS under my 4 seat sectional (12' wide) in my family room. Already have 4 JBL's for that. Will likely also add a VBSS directly behind as NF. Currently have a pair of Polk HTS12's on front soundstage about 10' in front which will stay.

I'm thinking of getting the NX3000 to power both the BOSS (4 JBL's in series/parallel on 1 channel) and the VBSS (1-4 PA460-8's). A miniDSP 2x4HD will be added to EQ them as well as the 2 Polks in front.

I have up to 22cuft available behind the sofa. How many VBSS's should I do, or do I even need any with the BOSS in play? I'm not a huge basshead but I do like immersion, and typically watch movies at -15/-20 max.

Thanks,

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post #4545 of 6625 Old 12-21-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Darren Chan View Post
I'm very much in the same boat as @JonnyVee . Will join the BOSS bandwagon in a couple months doing @Archaea 's furniture BOSS under my 4 seat sectional (12' wide) in my family room. Already have 4 JBL's for that. Will likely also add a VBSS directly behind as NF. Currently have a pair of Polk HTS12's on front soundstage about 10' in front which will stay.

I'm thinking of getting the NX3000 to power both the BOSS (4 JBL's in series/parallel on 1 channel) and the VBSS (1-4 PA460-8's). A miniDSP 2x4HD will be added to EQ them as well as the 2 Polks in front.

I have up to 22cuft available behind the sofa. How many VBSS's should I do, or do I even need any with the BOSS in play? I'm not a huge basshead but I do like immersion, and typically watch movies at -15/-20 max.

Thanks,

Darren
I still like both. Nearfield directly behind me and the BOSS directly attached to my seats.

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post #4546 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Merry Boss-mas! Haven't check out 6 underground yet, but it looks fun. Heard a lot of good things about it

Until Santa brings your mini, some other Netflix movies/series that come to mind that had great sound design without BEQ are:

1) Love, death, robots - an animated series, not recommended for kids though
I'm surprised to see you mention Love, Death, Robots without BEQ. I watched the entire series, and while I enjoyed it I found the sound mix extremely lacking, especially the bass. I found it frustratingly low on bass, lacking any weight or impact, rendering action scenes quite lifeless. Was that just me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethav View Post
I'll comment on this briefly, since I just replaced my auras with BOSS. I tested 2 aura's vs 2 JBL's (before I installed the 3rd JBL), using the same platform, and the difference was quite substantial.
I just wanted to say that I received your PM and I am interested, but I'm not allowed to send you a PM until my post count gets up to 15 So please bear with me as I attempt to increase my post count!
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post #4547 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 06:12 AM
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In post 29 the design for the full size riser has the drivers in the top of the riser facing the seats. Has anyone with a full size riser tried if it makes a difference if the drivers are in the bottom just like with the mini boss?

I can imagine that if the drivers are facing a solid floor they have more ‘resistance’ to move away from, then when they face the seats. Or doesn’t that make a difference?

When mounted in te bottom it’s a bit harder to keep
the baffle open but that could be solved on the back and sides maybe?
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post #4548 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 07:48 AM
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Hi Guys, I am still waiting to get the plywood but I ran into a small problem.. I am wondering can I change the wire size for the subs to 14-16gauge wire??

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post #4549 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
Awesome. Thank you. I won’t be building until after winter when I can use my power tools in the garage. Until then I’ll be buying the drivers, used amp or AVR ... plus getting advice.

2020 appears to be the year of the bass upgrade. Might also sell my SVS PC-2000 (which is behind the sofa for some NF affect) and upgrade to a PSA V1512DF - but put that in front to the right of the screen.

Here’s my first set of questions:

1. How many drivers for a 4-seat sofa that is almost 9’ in length? 3 or 4?
2. The sofa had 4” legs, so it’s mini riser for me. However, can I do a full riser if I remove sofa’s feet with the drivers then going into the sofa cavity?
3. This won’t affect the SVS subwoofer output?
4. I have a x4400h. If I go dual v1512s - what’s the best way to connect dual subs plus BOSS?
JonnyVee.....awesome theater and entertainment areas! Love the open floor plan you have going on in your basement and clever use of the window bay for a display area!

DesertDog's advice was spot on.

As always, let us know of more questions as your design comes into focus.

You're going to be amazed what the BOSS brings to your open floor plan on a concrete floor.

Welcome aboard!
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post #4550 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Chan View Post
I'm very much in the same boat as @JonnyVee . Will join the BOSS bandwagon in a couple months doing @Archaea 's furniture BOSS under my 4 seat sectional (12' wide) in my family room. Already have 4 JBL's for that. Will likely also add a VBSS directly behind as NF. Currently have a pair of Polk HTS12's on front soundstage about 10' in front which will stay.

I'm thinking of getting the NX3000 to power both the BOSS (4 JBL's in series/parallel on 1 channel) and the VBSS (1-4 PA460-8's). A miniDSP 2x4HD will be added to EQ them as well as the 2 Polks in front.

I have up to 22cuft available behind the sofa. How many VBSS's should I do, or do I even need any with the BOSS in play? I'm not a huge basshead but I do like immersion, and typically watch movies at -15/-20 max.

Thanks,

Darren
Darren....welcome aboard!

Great question about the need for VNF's behind you along with your BOSS.

Do you have recliners?

If so, I'd recommend trying BOSS only and an LPF of 80Hz when fully reclined once you get your BOSS up and going. This experience for me has been far better than any of my VNF experiments last summer before the BOSS was born. When listening to BOSS fully reclined with an LPF of 80Hz, your entire body is cradled in all the frequencies that are important for tactile feel and chest slam.

During my VNF experiments last summer, I could never get the experience to be consistent. Either slight movements of my body or changes in the main volume by a few dB's would collapse the realism. The TR from them would either go down significantly or they would start to call attention to themselves and I could tell where the VNF sub was located which was distracting.

None of these limitations exist with a BOSS. The realism and pressure on the body is so powerful and consistent at any main volume level. Even shifting of your body from one side to another doesn't change the experience. But, you have to be fully reclined and have an LPF of 80Hz for your BOSS to get this effect.

If you don't have recliners or don't watch movies fully reclined, then, yes, VNF's will add to the experience when placed behind your seat because that SPL will be hitting your body in a perpendicular fashion similar to listening to BOSS when fully reclined. Just be sure to have your VNF's LPF'd at 80Hz, just like the BOSS settings I mentioned above, to get the full tactile effect.....especially the chest slam frequencies which live mostly in the 40-80Hz region.

For VNF's I'd also recommend using the Behringer with DSP. This will allow you to apply a dynamic eq (signal expander) to the VNF signal to make it feel more natural. Basically, you'll want the VNF volume to increase as your main volume decreases and vice versa to keep the VNF's feeling natural at any main volume level and not call attention to themselves.

As always, let us know of more questions as your design comes into focus.

Welcome aboard!
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post #4551 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TestType View Post
I'm surprised to see you mention Love, Death, Robots without BEQ. I watched the entire series, and while I enjoyed it I found the sound mix extremely lacking, especially the bass. I found it frustratingly low on bass, lacking any weight or impact, rendering action scenes quite lifeless. Was that just me?
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have to listen again as it's been about 6 months ago now. I just remember being blown away by the LFE content in most of the mixes....especially the episode that had the mech warriors fighting in the open fields. I forget what episode that was, maybe the first one?

I even watched some of the episodes in our basement den which has just a subwoofer in a 5.1 arrangement and remember a lot of low end action going on.

Will watch that episode again today and report back.
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post #4552 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 08:35 AM
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Talking Cantilevered hovercraft hybrid boss

Finally got time to test the hovercraft setup with innertubes that seal the driver.

This setup works extremely well and much better than the standard free air setup for single digit frequenzies, but there is a good amount of spl above 20hz so i had to use a steep filter that brings it in at about 15hz. This also combines very well with the other 8 jbls that i have in the normal config and feels very smooth and linear with a rising house curve below 20hz

I can start to feel 2hz pretty good and at about 3.5hz my voice starts to vibrate (the voice wobble) and is very strong all the way up.

This is by far the best boss config I have tried so far
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post #4553 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijansch View Post
In post 29 the design for the full size riser has the drivers in the top of the riser facing the seats. Has anyone with a full size riser tried if it makes a difference if the drivers are in the bottom just like with the mini boss?

I can imagine that if the drivers are facing a solid floor they have more ‘resistance’ to move away from, then when they face the seats. Or doesn’t that make a difference?

When mounted in te bottom it’s a bit harder to keep
the baffle open but that could be solved on the back and sides maybe?
ijansch....great question.

Your "resistance to move" comment is the key.

For the shaker potential to be maximized with a BOSS driver, it has to be free to move, especially in the single digit frequencies where the cone displacement is the greatest. If there's any pressure in the cabinet, the single digit response will be impacted the most because this is where the cabinet pressure is the highest due to the large excursions with the single digit content. This is why a BOSS requires an open baffle or a very large cabinet volume to minimize this cabinet pressure and maximize single digit frequency response.

So, if the driver is mounted in an open baffle (like BOSS), it will be free to move without any unwanted pressure working against it especially in the single digits. It doesn't matter if the driver is mounted magnet up or magnet down. The cone still has the same surface area that is hindered by cabinet pressure, therefore the response of the cone will be the same regardless of magnet in or magnet out.

Also, because the area of the cone is the same regardless of magnet in or magnet out, the response will be the same no matter what the cabinet pressure is. The single digit response will suffer the same with either orientation as cabinet pressure increases. This, again, is because the area and therefore back pressure will be the same with either orientation.

@Magly was asking a similar question a couple week ago but in a different way. He was using cushions against the BOSS drivers to artificially create more pressure for the driver to work against and create more TR this way. The same thing applies. This added pressure limits the drivers ability to move in the single digits. And, the only way to overcome that added resistance is to provide more power to the driver. As more power is added, that makes the voice coil hotter and eventually a thermal event will occur with a turn-to-turn short causing the magnet wire to melt.

Hope this helps.
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post #4554 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys, I am still waiting to get the plywood but I ran into a small problem.. I am wondering can I change the wire size for the subs to 14-16gauge wire??
Nephilim....Thanks. It will depend on how many JBL drivers are in the circuit, how they are wired for total impedance and how long your speaker wire length will be. A general rule of thumb is the total resistance of the wire should be less than 5 percent of the rated impedance of the speaker(s) in the circuit.

Hope this helps.
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post #4555 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 09:20 AM
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How do you test if your BOSS is working with single digits? Test tones? Any tips were to get them?
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post #4556 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Magly View Post
Finally got time to test the hovercraft setup with innertubes that seal the driver.

This setup works extremely well and much better than the standard free air setup for single digit frequenzies, but there is a good amount of spl above 20hz so i had to use a steep filter that brings it in at about 15hz. This also combines very well with the other 8 jbls that i have in the normal config and feels very smooth and linear with a rising house curve below 20hz

I can start to feel 2hz pretty good and at about 3.5hz my voice starts to vibrate (the voice wobble) and is very strong all the way up.

This is by far the best boss config I have tried so far
Magly....Thanks for the update on your BOSS experiments! I couldn't see in the pictures but if I understand correctly, you're using the tubes as both isolators and to increase pressure on the backside of the driver like this concept here....correct? If so, that's the first cantilevered hovercraft setup I've seen incorporating these alignments for the ultimate in engineering economies

1) Tubes as ultra soft isolators - check
2) Tubes to increase hovercraft pressure while still allowing single digit BOSS driver response - check
3) Cantilevered BOSS drivers to leverage the extra hovercraft pressure and shaker potential from the BOSS driver - check

Nicely done!

This is probably the strongest and most efficient BOSS-only implementation I've seen yet without compromising any of the 3 key BOSS ingredients!

Kudos!
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post #4557 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
1. I'd go 4 drivers ... With one you have more control over the AVR to EQ, set crossovers, etc. and you can also BEQ with it to get the most out of your subs and BOSS.
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@JonnyVee --

Love the room. Very tasteful and love the Creepshow stuff.
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
JonnyVee.....awesome theater and entertainment areas! Love the open floor plan you have going on in your basement and clever use of the window bay for a display area!

DesertDog's advice was spot on.

As always, let us know of more questions as your design comes into focus.

You're going to be amazed what the BOSS brings to your open floor plan on a concrete floor.

Welcome aboard!
Thank you all. Glad you like the space. It’s been a long journey going from my 86” painted wall/polk speakers/Epson 8350 projector to my now 120” silver ticket/JVCx790/Atmos Kef setup. This year I went from a BenQ HT2050 that was directly over the MLP in the room to the JVC, which I was able to add by building the port hole and mounting the JVC in the utility room from the joists. Let me tell ya, the look on my wife’s face was priceless when she came home to find the monster of a projector and me cutting through drywall to build the port with no warning.

And I’m not done ... the riser and bass upgrade is 2020. One more question for now.

I have a 10” gap behind the sofa due to the floating shelf. Instead of a riser, would an open subwoofer box running behind the couch give me adequate TR? It’s unused space and would be hidden from view. But I’d want it to rumble the sofa.. not the wall.
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Projector and Screen: JVC x790 & 120" Stuart WallScreen StudioTek 130 G4
Audio: Denon x4400H 5.1.4 - Infinity R162 L/R, Infinity RC263 centre, Kef T101 surrounds, Kef Ci160er rear atmos, Energy V-Mini - front atmos, PSA v1512df (x2) & BOSS w/4 12” Subs
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post #4558 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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How do you test if your BOSS is working with single digits? Test tones? Any tips were to get them?
jbarteli.....Thanks. Youtube has many low frequency sweeps. Just search "low frequency sweeps" for a quick test.

If you want a pure sine wave as defined by the industry, REW has those sine waves.

One word of caution.....don't run these low frequency sine sweeps more than a few seconds at a time at each frequency. These pure sine waves release a lot of energy and repeated listening with high power and using the same frequency will cause the voice coil to overheat. Real-world content has mixed signals and are not pure sine waves, but rather mixtures of many, many different sine, square, triangle waves all happening at the same time and at different frequencies so they are more forgiving on open baffle drivers.

Hope this helps.
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post #4559 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
Thank you all. Glad you like the space. It’s been a long journey going from my 86” painted wall/polk speakers/Epson 8350 projector to my now 120” silver ticket/JVCx790/Atmos Kef setup. This year I went from a BenQ HT2050 that was directly over the MLP in the room to the JVC, which I was able to add by building the port hole and mounting the JVC in the utility room from the joists. Let me tell ya, the look on my wife’s face was priceless when she came home to find the monster of a projector and me cutting through drywall to build the port with no warning.

And I’m not done ... the riser and bass upgrade is 2020. One more question for now.

I have a 10” gap behind the sofa due to the floating shelf. Instead of a riser, would an open subwoofer box running behind the couch give me adequate TR? It’s unused space and would be hidden from view. But I’d want it to rumble the sofa.. not the wall.
JonnyVee....Thanks for the details about your setup. I bet having the JVC in another room has made a big difference in your noise floor. I laughed when I read your description of your wife's reaction to the "slight house modification". I've been there a few times too!

The open baffle box behind the couch will only provide TR if it's attached to your couch. Once attached to your couch, you'll probably find the TR to be too much and quite distracting because it will simply be vibrating instead of providing pressure against your body like we feel TR in the real world.

The only way to get this pressure from a BOSS is for your body to provide that pressure when you're sitting or reclined against the seat.

Then, the BOSS just simply vibrates that pressure to make it feel so natural and powerful. That's basically all the BOSS is doing...vibrating pressure on our butts, backs, legs, whatever we're sitting on to make it feel natural. Without pressure, the BOSS won't feel natural.

The good news is, once we sit down, our bodies provide the pressure for the BOSS to work with. With the BOSS behind your couch, the only way to get pressure is to push your back into the couch back. Then, it will start to feel natural and powerful, but will get tiring fast.

I'd start with the BOSS first to deliver single frequency response and natural feeling TR when you're sitting upright on your couch. It will bring your movies to life and feel like you're inside the movie. You won't believe how much more the BOSS will bring to your current setup.

Then, if you feel you still want more chest-slam from behind, since you can't recline, you could take one or more of your existing far field subs and start experimenting with them behind your couch. I could never get the nearfield experience to feel natural for any given volume level or for any seating position. They didn't meet my goals for me and my family.

Based on your nearfield experiments with your current subwoofers, you can start to get an idea what you like and don't like and whether they will meet your needs and the needs of your family/guests.

The good news about your BOSS, when built to the prescribed guidelines in Post 29, it will provide a consistent and powerful experience to anyone who sits on your furniture and won't depend on seating positions and main volume levels. It will feel natural at any volume level and on any seat of the couch.

Hope some of this feedback helps.
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post #4560 of 6625 Old 12-22-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magly View Post
Finally got time to test the hovercraft setup with innertubes that seal the driver.

This setup works extremely well and much better than the standard free air setup for single digit frequenzies, but there is a good amount of spl above 20hz so i had to use a steep filter that brings it in at about 15hz. This also combines very well with the other 8 jbls that i have in the normal config and feels very smooth and linear with a rising house curve below 20hz

I can start to feel 2hz pretty good and at about 3.5hz my voice starts to vibrate (the voice wobble) and is very strong all the way up.

This is by far the best boss config I have tried so far
Excellent! Good Job. Do you have the inner tubes just under the cantilever or the entire riser? I believe the cantilever was free floating before so I'm not sure if you just slid tubes under it. Can you post pictures of your hovercraft set-up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyVee View Post
I have a 10” gap behind the sofa due to the floating shelf. Instead of a riser, would an open subwoofer box running behind the couch give me adequate TR? It’s unused space and would be hidden from view. But I’d want it to rumble the sofa.. not the wall.
You could put an array of JBLs back there. They'll give a little bit of TR but honestly the BOSS is going to over power them for TR. They will help you get a smoother overall room response though. Since it's dead space, I'd do it.

Can you move the couch out a little so that there's about a 13" gap? If so you could do what I'm in the process of doing and that @Nalleh has done. Build your riser out out to extend behind the couch, put the sub boxes on it, and build down firing SLAPS into the boxes. It will give extra TR along with the SPL benefits. Nalleh's thread has details on what he did and mine has the boxes I built. I'm going to be doing my new BOSS this week.

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