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post #5071 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
What tubes are you using?
In the back for hovercraft I'm using 16 inch tubes and in the front I'm using 4 inch wheelbarrow innertubes

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post #5072 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
Had my first flat tire on the hover board... I put it under water and it looks like there was a small leak at the base of the stem. Will order some spare tubes but hopefully just a bad one and not something that will happen frequently.
Thanks for the update m0j0. I do a lot of mountain biking and most of my leaks have been at the base of the stem also. I think it's because the tube starts slipping inside the tire and starts to bend the stem causing a lot of stress in that area.

When I saw some of the pictures on here with the stem being bent to the outside of the tube for easy re-fill, that was the first thing I thought of.....leaking around the base.

If others start experiencing leaks at the base of the stems from bending them outwards, one solution is the tube extenders that Shikamaru linked earlier. These allow the stems to rest naturally inside the tube. Then, just simply add the extensions and use that extra length to route the stem to the outside of the tube.

For easy reference, here's the extenders Shikamaru linked earlier right here.
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post #5073 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
So how about just putting them (the speakers) in super small sealed cabs and using the same or more isolators?
Seal up each speaker in its own little box.
No more flat tires.

Michael
Michael.....good question.

The tube add-ons provides a few desirable features to a BOSS platform:

1) Added "floatiness" to the BOSS platform. The baseline prescribed isolators are solid rubber and not as 'floaty' as 2 thin walls of rubber with an air spring in between which is what the tubes are. This is called "tubes as isolators" where the isolators are simply replaced by the tubes.

2) The "tubes as hovercraft" approach takes advantage of not only the added "floatiness" added by the tubes. But, by also placing the tube around the JBL's, that provides a forcing function much larger than the JBL's moving mass by itself. This forcing function acts in both directions due to the area inside the tube multiplied by any pressure generated by the JBL moving up and down. I'm estimating this force to be upwards of 100-150 lbs based on platform bending I've measured with the baseline 80 watts per JBL.

3) With the "tubes as hovercraft", the power can be pushed beyond 80 watts now since the JBL's are no longer being ran in an open baffle. The tubes provide some back pressure, especially at the lower freqencies where excursion is greatest, which allows more power to be used providing even more shaker force described in number 2 above.

4) The "tubes as hovercraft" combines 1, 2 and 3 above all into one simple component.....the tube itself! And the addition of the "tubes as hovercraft" optimized the efficiency of 2 of the 3 BOSS elements....the 1) forcing function is multiplied dramatically and the 2) floatiness is multiplied dramatically. The third BOSS element, the 3) rigid platform, needs to be more rigid than ever due to the extra floatiness and the extra shaker potential.

Unfortunately, if rigid cabinets are used, the economies of engineering are all lost. The extra isolators cost extra money and are less floaty than the tubes. The rigid cabinet doesn't provide any lift/pull and doesn't take advantage of the dramatic increase in shaker potential provided by having pressure created inside the ID of the tubes when the JBL's are moving up and down.

The "tubes as hovercraft" is the most efficient way of optimizing most of the BOSS elements to date.

The "tubes as isolators" is a close second, providing optimization of the "floatiness" of BOSS but doesn't take advantage of the significant increase in shaker potential if not used in a "tubes as hovercraft" alignment.
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post #5074 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I added the tubes to the rear row that has the cantilevered design and they have a even more pronounced impact in those seats. The TR is nuts! I also added more tubes close to the hovercraft ones and it has added more TR. This has really taken the BOSS to the next level. One additional benefit I am seeing is that the impact from the BK has increased as well since the whole platform has a bit of a bounce now. Love it!
Ray....Thanks for the update. That's great to hear you're enjoying the added BOSS TR now with the tubes add-on. I thought you'd like the extra floatiness combined with the dramatic increase in "hovercraft" shaker potential from your JBL's

Enjoy!
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post #5075 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Magly View Post
In the back for hovercraft I'm using 16 inch tubes and in the front I'm using 4 inch wheelbarrow innertubes
Is the reason you used thicker tubes in front is to tilt the platform backwards to increase downward pressure on the hovercraft tubes?

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post #5076 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Ray....Thanks for the update. That's great to hear you're enjoying the added BOSS TR now with the tubes add-on. I thought you'd like the extra floatiness combined with the dramatic increase in "hovercraft" shaker potential from your JBL's

Enjoy!
Thanks Tim, I post some vids soon as well. The rear row with the cantilevered drivers has even more TR than the front row...

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post #5077 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
The increased TR from the inner-tube upgrade is incredible. The increased TR does require some tuning as it isn't suited for all movies. However, it is truly something to experience in movies with a great low frequency track (Hulk, Spiderman, EoT. Ready Player One, current Season of Expanse, etc.).

The initial BOSS upgrade I did last month and this Hovercraft upgrade this week have been the best bang for the buck home theater upgrades. No other upgrades have put such a smile on my face and draw me into the movie.
Shikamaru....great comments! Agreed, the tubes increases sensitivity of the BOSS so much, it does require some fine tuning to get right. But, when that balance is found, the results put a big smile on my face.

One other scene I'd highly recommend with "tubes as hovercraft" builders out there. The Pod Race scene in Phantom Menace. The extra floatiness of the tubes combined with the crazy "hovercraft" shaking forces, makes it feel like you're right there in the race.

The raw horsepower of each of the jet engines can be felt as your seat is rumbling. The pressure waves during the race as the pods fly by linger in the air for a couple seconds as awesome TR washes over the entire body.

And, the TR is nicely textured also....as each jet engine starts up in the beginning of the race, you can feel how each one is uniquely different in feel and power as your seat rumbles. So cool.

And, the scenes where they go down into the canyon during the race......the "tubes as hovercraft" pulls you down with them...amazing!
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post #5078 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Magly View Post
Did some more testing with innertubes as isolators
Since I have cantilevered hovercraft I already have tubes at the back so I slid a couple of fat 4 inch tubes under the front so they slightly lifted the iso's off the floor when not sitting in the seat and it seems to be working quite well

Here is a test with a 4 Hz sine wave


And a quick 3.5 Hz test
Awesome pics and videos Magly. Thanks for sharing! I too have increased pressure in my Goodyear tubes pictured earlier and added 3 more so the isolators aren't touching any more on the front or back of the BOSS platform. The effect is pretty awesome. It's like a D-box platform now

I'm monitoring the longevity of these tubes with this higher pressure and higher stresses they are experiencing now. So far, so good, but I've only been running them for about 24 hours with this higher pressure.

The Goodyear tubes have a thicker wall and are for fatter tires, so hopefully this combination will work OK in the long run.

I did notice they start to buldge in some areas with the higher pressure so I hope that doesn't create a weak point for failure down the road...time will tell.
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post #5079 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Magly View Post
In the back for hovercraft I'm using 16 inch tubes and in the front I'm using 4 inch wheelbarrow innertubes
Just saw this. The 4" wheelbarrow tubes might be the way to go with my front isolators on the front row mini-riser if the Goodyear's don't hold up with the extra pressure. Thanks for sharing.

Maybe several of them could even support our rather heavy back row riser......hmmmm
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post #5080 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Thanks Tim, I post some vids soon as well. The rear row with the cantilevered drivers has even more TR than the front row...
Thanks Ray.....looking forward to the videos! Yes, the cantilevered BOSS drivers compound the 'hovercraft" shaker potential even more due to the added leverage you're getting with that rocker potential in addition to lift/pull potential of the "tubes as hovercraft"

Lots of awesome TR man!!!

Enjoy!
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post #5081 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 12:56 PM
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How many watts are people pushing into the JBL drivers with inner-tubes around creating a seal with the floor?

I was up to ~125 watts each with the dsp limiter and not hearing anything odd coming from the driver.
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post #5082 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Is the reason you used thicker tubes in front is to tilt the platform backwards to increase downward pressure on the hovercraft tubes?
Not really, I just needed somthing smaller in diameter and they just happened to be thicker.
I just barely filled them with air so they would get the right shape, if I fill them more the front will be a little higher.
Might try to replace all the iso's with these smaller innertubes at some point to see if that feels better

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post #5083 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 05:52 PM
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So.... I was catching up on the thread on Friday as I read about the newest upgrade to the BOSS setup. Inner tubes? I thought to myself. Are you kidding me? Why would I want to change what I have now, it's already crazy. I'll just leave well enough alone for once.

First thing Saturday monring I find myself at walmart buying inner tubes.

Tomorrow I get the extensions from Amazon so I hope to be able to try it out tomorrow.

I'm hopeless when it comes to leaving well enough alone, but I'm glad I have company.

BTW, I'm still in shock that my Chiefs are in the superbowl. I've watched painful playoff loss after painful playoff loss after painful playoff loss my entire life (46 years), most of them at home... with a bye... and the better team.

It took Joe Montana to give us our first playoff win in my life time (he took us to the AFC Championship game) and we didn't have another year with a playoff win for over 20 years after Joe.

Losses with huge leads - check.
Losses with large leads very late in the game - check.
Loss with kicker missing 3 easy field goals (any of which would have won the game) - check.
Loss with picking off Tom Brady to win the game to go to the Superbowl - check (oops, lined up in the neutral zone).

It goes on and on and on. Thank god for the Royals 4 World Series appearances and 2 championships, and now... this. Like I said I am still in shock.

The bad news is the 49ers look unbeatable.

Sorry for the OT, I'll post my impressions of the hover craft - although I don't think I really need to post anything, sounds like all that have tried it love it.
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post #5084 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
So.... I was catching up on the thread on Friday as I read about the newest upgrade to the BOSS setup. Inner tubes? I thought to myself. Are you kidding me? Why would I want to change what I have now, it's already crazy. I'll just leave well enough alone for once.

First thing Saturday monring I find myself at walmart buying inner tubes.

Tomorrow I get the extensions from Amazon so I hope to be able to try it out tomorrow.

I'm hopeless when it comes to leaving well enough alone, but I'm glad I have company.

BTW, I'm still in shock that my Chiefs are in the superbowl. I've watched painful playoff loss after painful playoff loss after painful playoff loss my entire life (46 years), most of them at home... with a bye... and the better team.

It took Joe Montana to give us our first playoff win in my life time (he took us to the AFC Championship game) and we didn't have another year with a playoff win for over 20 years after Joe.

Losses with huge leads - check.
Losses with large leads very late in the game - check.
Loss with kicker missing 3 easy field goals (any of which would have won the game) - check.
Loss with picking off Tom Brady to win the game to go to the Superbowl - check (oops, lined up in the neutral zone).

It goes on and on and on. Thank god for the Royals 4 World Series appearances and 2 championships, and now... this. Like I said I am still in shock.

The bad news is the 49ers look unbeatable.

Sorry for the OT, I'll post my impressions of the hover craft - although I don't think I really need to post anything, sounds like all that have tried it love it.
carp....Thanks for stopping by. That's a funny story about the tubes. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what just a few dollars will add to your BOSS experience, especially with your cantilevered BOSS drivers

Congrats on the Super Bowl berth! Looking forward to the game this year. It should be a good battle and anything can happen. Watching how strong the 49'ers look against the Packers right now, but you never know what team will show up on 2/2.

We'll be rooting for the Chiefs and one of our local NFL talents. I spend a lot of time in Tyler and remember some folks telling me about this kid who was a phenom on the baseball field. We went to watch him at one of the local games and he pitched a no hitter. One of those unforgettable moments. An incredible athlete. And the players name...Patrick Mahomes. He was great in basketball and of course football also.

Kansas City has a lot to cheer for these days....defending the city one sport at a time

By the way....looks like In Absentia will be dropping on 2/21 with the corrected center and LFE channels. Will be picking it up for a bit of BEQ remux accordingly!
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post #5085 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
How many watts are people pushing into the JBL drivers with inner-tubes around creating a seal with the floor?

I was up to ~125 watts each with the dsp limiter and not hearing anything odd coming from the driver.
Great question Shikamaru....if you find out where the limit is with the JBL's please let us know. I can't push any more than about 120 watts because I'm amp limited right now.
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post #5086 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 06:40 PM
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I am running four JBLs on one channel of the NX3000 (wired as series/parallel). I pushed the knob up to one tick under the max setting, so I am guessing that’s close to 200w, but I could be wrong. So far, the BOSS has taken everything I can throw at it with the hovercraft retrofit and new amp.
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post #5087 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
I am running four JBLs on one channel of the NX3000 (wired as series/parallel). I pushed the knob up to one tick under the max setting, so I am guessing that’s close to 200w, but I could be wrong. So far, the BOSS has taken everything I can throw at it with the hovercraft retrofit and new amp.
Thanks m0j0! That's around 225 watts p-p and 160 watt RMS....pretty impressive and good to know!!
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post #5088 of 5992 Old 01-19-2020, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
carp....Thanks for stopping by. That's a funny story about the tubes. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what just a few dollars will add to your BOSS experience, especially with your cantilevered BOSS drivers

Congrats on the Super Bowl berth! Looking forward to the game this year. It should be a good battle and anything can happen. Watching how strong the 49'ers look against the Packers right now, but you never know what team will show up on 2/2.

We'll be rooting for the Chiefs and one of our local NFL talents. I spend a lot of time in Tyler and remember some folks telling me about this kid who was a phenom on the baseball field. We went to watch him at one of the local games and he pitched a no hitter. One of those unforgettable moments. An incredible athlete. And the players name...Patrick Mahomes. He was great in basketball and of course football also.

Kansas City has a lot to cheer for these days....defending the city one sport at a time

By the way....looks like In Absentia will be dropping on 2/21 with the corrected center and LFE channels. Will be picking it up for a bit of BEQ remux accordingly!

Wow, that's great you saw that, I had heard he threw a no hitter at one point which really didn't surprise me. It seems like he can do it all. He is walking proof that NOT specializing as a young athlete is the way to go - I cringe when I see a QB that never learned how to slide properly. You can see his basketball skills and baseball skills every time he plays.

Thanks for the heads up on In Absentia, I'll be getting that too, what a great album.
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post #5089 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 08:03 AM
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I am running four JBLs on one channel of the NX3000 (wired as series/parallel)...
Is there a pic of this some where? I thought there was but I cannot find it. I will be wiring my BOSS riser this way and to the same amp very soon.

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post #5090 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 09:03 AM
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Is there a pic of this some where? I thought there was but I cannot find it. I will be wiring my BOSS riser this way and to the same amp very soon.
He has it in post https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post59122394
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post #5091 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 09:48 AM
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Does it make any sense (with a couch) to remove the middle iso's when using tubes, so the boss can move more freely?
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post #5092 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Does it make any sense (with a couch) to remove the middle iso's when using tubes, so the boss can move more freely?
jbarteli....good question. For your particular setup, since you built 2 additional couch feet in the middle of your couch, I think you could remove those 2 isolators below it as long as you fasten the BOSS platform to the bottom of your 2 additional feet with screws or some other method. Once those feet are fastened to the platform, that will support it adequately so the platform doesn't bend with the additional 100-150 lbs of shaker potential from that JBL in the middle of the platform.

If you don't secure those 2 additional legs to the platform, then the isolators will still be needed below them so the BOSS platform can be captured in that area to keep it from moving up and down and bending too much.

Hope this helps.
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post #5093 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 11:20 AM
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Hi all,

My JBL S2-1224's have arrived along with the NX3000D to power them, I'll also be using the recommended 2.5" Hudson isolators, I have 16 of them.

My proposed mini riser will be going under this sofa,

Click image for larger version

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I've decided on 1" far eastern ply (that's what it's called in the UK), for the base, It was a good price/quality option over here at around £50 a sheet.
It's a pretty good match for the existing flooring, as this is a living room, Aesthetics had to be considered

Here's a drawing of my proposed mini riser.

Click image for larger version

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4 drivers set out equidistant on each board, I'm not sure whether to have them as separate platforms or join them together ?, Advice welcome.
Isolators under each leg, with a few extra to help with the board sagging, not sure it will though, with it being 1" ply ?

I would like to run all the drivers on a single channel, The JBL S2-1224's are switchable between 2 and 4 ohm's if this helps.
Some advice on how to wire them up would be appreciated, as this is my first time with this sort of amp/setup.

Also, What gauge speaker cable would you recommend (the amp will be situated below the twig lights to the right of the sofa), as the terminals are deferent sizes (1/8" and 1/4" spade connectors).

I was planning to put the drivers running down the middle of the board, But I notice you guy's tend to have them towards the back of your risers, Is this just the only place you can fit them or is there another reason for the positioning ?

Measure twice cut once and all that

What do you think ?

Thanks
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post #5094 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
The next problem I have to deal with is electrical power. If I turn the BK amp past 3 it starts tripping the circuit protection on the extension cord.

Please tell me you are not using the typical hardware store extension strips! Those breaker switches are junk and will trip at any time and most likely way sooner than they should...only use those for very low current components (Source devices). Use a regular heavy duty extension cord instead for receivers or amps...
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post #5095 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Please tell me you are not using the typical hardware store extension strips! Those breaker switches are junk and will trip at any time and most likely way sooner than they should...only use those for very low current components (Source devices). Use a regular heavy duty extension cord instead for receivers or amps...

As my Grandma was fond of saying, "Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies..."


Yes, I did recently add in a standard, run of the mill department store extension strip that I had laying around as I have added more equipment to the HT room. Do you have any recommendation as to a good extension strip? I saw one on Amazon that was 20A that cost something like 68 dollars...
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post #5096 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 02:11 PM
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HAHAHAHA!!!

That was my reaction just now to using a single inner tube just now with the Hulk bare knuckle punch scene. It is absurd. In a good way. That single hz centered bare knuckle punch wobbles so much more than before, and it was pretty good before.

This is at the same output levels from the amp, I haven't played with turning it up more because 2 more drivers are on the same amp channel so I'll wait until all seats have inner tubes to play with that.

I'm trying it out on an outside seat (not my main LP seat) because it's easier to get to and the drivers are too close together to use 2 separate inner tubes, so I am using a single 24 inch tube that goes around both drivers. In the front of the chair I still have isolators.

I'm immediately sold.

I'm wondering if I even need to mess with trying inner tubes under the front part of the riser. I like that the seat doesn't wobble as much as I was afraid it would when sitting down or shifting my weight.







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post #5097 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 02:14 PM
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Sigh...

What sucks now is I have to tear up the front row again which includes prying out all the staples that were holding the speaker wires in place. Tim, I tried sliding the tube under the seat but I just don't have the room to get in there unfortunately. Oh well, from that quick test I can tell it will be well worth it.
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post #5098 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 02:42 PM
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Going to test out this configuration next...


Took out the iso's altogether, so going to see how that goes...
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post #5099 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 02:57 PM
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HAHAHAHA!!!
I'd watch out running the stem through the plywood like that. I was thinking of doing that but I think it'll have a higher chance of getting a flat due to stem failure. It'll be getting a lot more rubbing and stress on it. what I'm thinking of doing is getting the extensions and running them out the opposite side between the tube and the floor. It should give the least stress on it.

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post #5100 of 5992 Old 01-20-2020, 04:03 PM
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I'd watch out running the stem through the plywood like that. I was thinking of doing that but I think it'll have a higher chance of getting a flat due to stem failure. It'll be getting a lot more rubbing and stress on it. what I'm thinking of doing is getting the extensions and running them out the opposite side between the tube and the floor. It should give the least stress on it.
I thought about doing that but I thought it might stress it more to bend it like that? I do see your point though.
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