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post #5101 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
As my Grandma was fond of saying, "Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies..."


Yes, I did recently add in a standard, run of the mill department store extension strip that I had laying around as I have added more equipment to the HT room. Do you have any recommendation as to a good extension strip? I saw one on Amazon that was 20A that cost something like 68 dollars...
Just get a plain heavy duty extension cord or a power strip "without" the silly surge protection breaker in it.
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post #5102 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I thought about doing that but I thought it might stress it more to bend it like that? I do see your point though.
The way I meant would be almost no stress at all. I didn't mean to wrap around the bottom of where it comes out but to cross the inside diameter of the tube and then go under the tube 180 degrees from where the stem comes out. It'll give a gentle bend down over the 13" or so and going under the floor side will keep it from bouncing up into the driver. So in your picture it would cross about where the red tape is in the center of the board. I'd rotate the tube around though so that the stem is around the tape and it come out around where the stem is now for easier maintenance access.
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post #5103 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stoke192 View Post
Hi all,

My JBL S2-1224's have arrived along with the NX3000D to power them, I'll also be using the recommended 2.5" Hudson isolators, I have 16 of them.

My proposed mini riser will be going under this sofa,

I've decided on 1" far eastern ply (that's what it's called in the UK), for the base, It was a good price/quality option over here at around £50 a sheet.
It's a pretty good match for the existing flooring, as this is a living room, Aesthetics had to be considered

Here's a drawing of my proposed mini riser.

4 drivers set out equidistant on each board, I'm not sure whether to have them as separate platforms or join them together ?, Advice welcome.
Isolators under each leg, with a few extra to help with the board sagging, not sure it will though, with it being 1" ply ?

I would like to run all the drivers on a single channel, The JBL S2-1224's are switchable between 2 and 4 ohm's if this helps.
Some advice on how to wire them up would be appreciated, as this is my first time with this sort of amp/setup.

Also, What gauge speaker cable would you recommend (the amp will be situated below the twig lights to the right of the sofa), as the terminals are deferent sizes (1/8" and 1/4" spade connectors).

I was planning to put the drivers running down the middle of the board, But I notice you guy's tend to have them towards the back of your risers, Is this just the only place you can fit them or is there another reason for the positioning ?

Measure twice cut once and all that

What do you think ?

Thanks
Stoke.....Thanks for the details. The 1" ply will work great and the fact it matches your living room....even better

For the platform, I couldn't tell from the drawing with the colors being on top of one another, but as long as you have isolators underneath each furniture leg, the isolator placement looks good. I'd recommend building 2 separate platforms, one for each furniture piece. This will keep the platforms smaller and more manageable without sacrificing BOSS performance. I'm presuming the furniture pieces aren't connected to each other. If they are, they should be disconnected if using 2 separate platforms.

For the driver placement, the closer the drivers can be placed to the back legs of each furniture piece, the better. This gets the shaker potential in line with the mass of your body and the isolators which will maximize the BOSS experience.

For the power, just wire the 4 speakers in combination of series and parallel to provide 4 ohms total. Follow the instructions that came with the dual voice coil JBL's and use the 4 ohms wiring for each of them as specified in the instructions. Don't use the 2 ohm wiring on the JBL's or your impedance will end of being 2 ohms when wiring in in the series and parallel combination. 14 ga. wire will be fine with the short run from your Behringer to the JBL's. There's a link to a BOSS manual in paragraph 2 of Post 29. I believe it has a couple wiring diagrams showing how to wire in series/parallel for 4 drivers along with all kinds of other good info about BOSS and more.

Your design looks great

As always, let us know as more questions come into focus.
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post #5104 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Sigh...

What sucks now is I have to tear up the front row again which includes prying out all the staples that were holding the speaker wires in place. Tim, I tried sliding the tube under the seat but I just don't have the room to get in there unfortunately. Oh well, from that quick test I can tell it will be well worth it.
Awesome you're enjoying the BOSS add-on carp. Not so awesome it's gonna be a bit of a project.

It'll be totally worth it though
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post #5105 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 07:47 PM
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@carp : clever using one bigger tube instead of the 16", when drivers are mounted close together I would have the same problem, as mine are close together.

Too bad i went out and got a load of 16" tubes earlier today, LOL. I read your post and pics when i got home

D’ooohh .....
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post #5106 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Awesome you're enjoying the BOSS add-on carp. Not so awesome it's gonna be a bit of a project.

It'll be totally worth it though

Agreed, I am done now (wasn't as bad as I thought to remove staples and move the wires). I think I need those straps to tie the chairs to the plywood!

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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
@carp : clever using one bigger tube instead of the 16", when drivers are mounted close together I would have the same problem, as mine are close together.

Too bad i went out and got a load of 16" tubes earlier today, LOL. I read your post and pics when i got home

D’ooohh .....

Ha, thanks but I made the same mistake... I bought a bunch of 16's too before realizing it wouldn't work. 20's are almost big enough, but not quite. 22's would have been perfect but I guess that's not a common tire size.
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post #5107 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
@carp : clever using one bigger tube instead of the 16", when drivers are mounted close together I would have the same problem, as mine are close together.

Too bad i went out and got a load of 16" tubes earlier today, LOL. I read your post and pics when i got home

D’ooohh .....
Yeah, that's got me thinking now if I can get away with using one bigger tube with each pair of drivers I have. I'm to figure out some sizing. We need an inner tube simulator now to figure out the best size tube to shape around drivers.
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post #5108 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Ha, thanks but I made the same mistake... I bought a bunch of 16's too before realizing it wouldn't work. 20's are almost big enough, but not quite. 22's would have been perfect but I guess that's not a common tire size.
LOL, that’s funny

Ok, thanks for the info, they were cheap anyway, so no biggie.

But you used those 16" under the front, right ?

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post #5109 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Yeah, that's got me thinking now if I can get away with using one bigger tube with each pair of drivers I have. I'm to figure out some sizing. We need an inner tube simulator now to figure out the best size tube to shape around drivers.
Seems carp gave that answer in the post above

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post #5110 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Seems carp gave that answer in the post above
He gave the size he needed. I have different spacing between the 2 pairs of drivers I have on each side and neither matchup with Carp's pictures. One pair is close to his and I'm guessing that I can probably use the 24" tube he used based on the extra slack. For the other pair I think I'd have to jump up to a larger tube, like 26 or 27". I could also stick with the 2 16" tubes for that pair but it might be easier for me to do the one tube since I have to fit it to my frame.
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post #5111 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
LOL, that’s funny

Ok, thanks for the info, they were cheap anyway, so no biggie.

But you used those 16" under the front, right ?
I haven't tried that yet, but I will. I want to get a sense of what I think of having the isolators under the front first. Are you going straight to all inner tubes with no isolators?
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post #5112 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I haven't tried that yet, but I will. I want to get a sense of what I think of having the isolators under the front first. Are you going straight to all inner tubes with no isolators?
Ahh, i thought tubes under the front too was the project you were done with now

Well, first of all ATM i technically don’t have a normal BOSS, as i am using the SLAPS(passive radiators) as boss, and i am not sure if hoverboss works with those.
Second i will leave the iso’s under there, as backup in case of a flat

I have however already tried tubes as iso under the cantilevelered SLAPS /BOSS i have , but used too fat 4"dia tubes instead of these slimmer ones, so i will try all tubes when i get time. I believe these slimmer ones will help the BK’s i have too

But i do have a bunch of JBL incoming, so i feel like i need to try a proper hoverboss with those. And i do have 2 x 18" i have tried before.... i really love @Magly ‘s setup 🤪🤪
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post #5113 of 5419 Old 01-20-2020, 10:29 PM
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21” is a common size for these tubes
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post #5114 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 12:58 AM
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Where are the recommended places to buy these hovercraft tubes? can we buy customized length?
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post #5115 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Stoke.....Thanks for the details. The 1" ply will work great and the fact it matches your living room....even better

For the platform, I couldn't tell from the drawing with the colors being on top of one another, but as long as you have isolators underneath each furniture leg, the isolator placement looks good. I'd recommend building 2 separate platforms, one for each furniture piece. This will keep the platforms smaller and more manageable without sacrificing BOSS performance. I'm presuming the furniture pieces aren't connected to each other. If they are, they should be disconnected if using 2 separate platforms.

For the driver placement, the closer the drivers can be placed to the back legs of each furniture piece, the better. This gets the shaker potential in line with the mass of your body and the isolators which will maximize the BOSS experience.

For the power, just wire the 4 speakers in combination of series and parallel to provide 4 ohms total. Follow the instructions that came with the dual voice coil JBL's and use the 4 ohms wiring for each of them as specified in the instructions. Don't use the 2 ohm wiring on the JBL's or your impedance will end of being 2 ohms when wiring in in the series and parallel combination. 14 ga. wire will be fine with the short run from your Behringer to the JBL's. There's a link to a BOSS manual in paragraph 2 of Post 29. I believe it has a couple wiring diagrams showing how to wire in series/parallel for 4 drivers along with all kinds of other good info about BOSS and more.

Your design looks great

As always, let us know as more questions come into focus.
Hi There, Thanks for the reply.

Yes, The isolators will be under each leg, The extra isolators will be at the mid points between the legs or there about's (approx. 2' apart).

I was originally planning to do two separate platforms but the sofa is in two pieces joined by a couple of furniture clips and was concerned the would break over time due to the wobble/vibrations .

I was planning to join the boards mechanically (no glue with some dry biscuits and two maybe three battens/cleats across the joint, screwed (no glue), so the platform/s wobbled as one under both sofa's.

I'll give it a try, nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that!.....easy enough to change/test, If one method turns out to be better than the other, with no glue involved.
The platform would be to big to handle if glued together, if anything needed to be changed (thinking driver failure)

Thanks for the input on the wiring and cable sizes, I'll look them up.

Also, I'll take your advice and move the drivers towards the back of the boards.

Slowly working my way through this thread lol, Very interesting reading!

I don't currently have a miniiDSP HD as was planning to use the dsp in the nx300d to get me going, Looks like that'll be next on the list

Thanks again for the reply, No doubt i'll be back with more questions as the planets align and I get to build it!
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post #5116 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
Where are the recommended places to buy these hovercraft tubes? can we buy customized length?
I bought mine at Walmart, the Goodyear extra thick or whatever they are called. They had 16,20,24,26, and 28 inch sizes in stock.
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post #5117 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Agreed, I am done now (wasn't as bad as I thought to remove staples and move the wires). I think I need those straps to tie the chairs to the plywood!
Great to hear you got 'er done carp. Enjoy!
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post #5118 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post
Where are the recommended places to buy these hovercraft tubes? can we buy customized length?
WereWolf....Fortunately, any size or shape of inner tube will work great as a BOSS add-on and any place that sells inner tubes will be a good starting point. I haven't seen any places selling customized lengths. But, between local sources as well as online sources they will likely have what you need depending on your platform design.

The great thing about the tubes add-on....from a performance perspective, there isn't going to be a big difference in "feel" between one brand or the other, or one size to another. This is because all inner tubes for the most part behave the same in how we're using them as a BOSS component.

They all have thin rubber walls to enhance the "floaty" feeling of the BOSS platform. And, they all have an air spring inside those thin rubber walls that provides the extra displacement and "bounce" further enhancing the BOSS experience.

I only recommended the thicker Goodyear tubes because that's what I found locally at Wal-Mart. And, I thought the thicker rubber would help with 2 of my concerns....less leakage over time through the thicker rubber and a more durable bladder to take a beating over time.

The choice of inner tube will depend mostly on how many drivers you're trying to capture, how close those drivers are to one another and how much gap are you trying to bridge between the bottom of your BOSS platform and the floor below.

Fortunately, any size or shape of inner tube will work great as long as it's made from rubber and can be inflated with air. I only say this because I've seen some "no flat" inner tubes being sold that are basically foam rubber and don't need inflating. Stay away from those for a BOSS add-on. They are too rigid and don't provide the air spring.

Hope this helps.
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post #5119 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Stoke192 View Post
Hi There, Thanks for the reply.

Yes, The isolators will be under each leg, The extra isolators will be at the mid points between the legs or there about's (approx. 2' apart).

I was originally planning to do two separate platforms but the sofa is in two pieces joined by a couple of furniture clips and was concerned the would break over time due to the wobble/vibrations .

I was planning to join the boards mechanically (no glue with some dry biscuits and two maybe three battens/cleats across the joint, screwed (no glue), so the platform/s wobbled as one under both sofa's.

I'll give it a try, nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that!.....easy enough to change/test, If one method turns out to be better than the other, with no glue involved.
The platform would be to big to handle if glued together, if anything needed to be changed (thinking driver failure)

Thanks for the input on the wiring and cable sizes, I'll look them up.

Also, I'll take your advice and move the drivers towards the back of the boards.

Slowly working my way through this thread lol, Very interesting reading!

I don't currently have a miniiDSP HD as was planning to use the dsp in the nx300d to get me going, Looks like that'll be next on the list

Thanks again for the reply, No doubt i'll be back with more questions as the planets align and I get to build it!
Sounds good Stoke. Thanks for the update. If you find working with one large platform more difficult than 2 smaller platforms, you could probably remove the connecting hardware on the furniture pieces so they are no longer connected and are just simply sitting next to one another and free to move independently. Just wanted to mention that if that connecting hardware is just held on with screws or bolts that could be easily removed.

As always, as your design comes into focus, just let me know of any other questions.

Hope this helps.
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post #5120 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
But i do have a bunch of JBL incoming, so i feel like i need to try a proper hoverboss with those. And i do have 2 x 18" i have tried before
18's work really well for hoverboss in my testing
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post #5121 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 09:49 AM
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Got a new row of motorized theater seats from HT Market last week so I had to re-do my BOSS riser as well! I opted for trying the new hovercraft design with this new build. Any recommendations for improvements on the new build are welcome.

Am I using too many rubber isolators? Since I was going for a hovercraft and I have carpet I also removed the carpet savers that are normally recommended to create the tightest seal I could to the floor. Thoughts?

I will say that getting those JBLs to fit directly underneath motorized theater chairs was a huge undertaking. I added two extra layers of plywood under the chair legs to provide enough clearance while also only having about 6 inches of width between the motor rail and the frame of each chair (I have no room for the cantilevered design). I also opted to bolt all three chairs directly to the plywood so that they would essentially function as a single piece of furniture now. This makes it much easier to tip the whole row forward/backward to tinker with the BOSS platform when needed. I used zip ties to hold the tubes but I will probably be trading those out for string or a nylon strap to make the seal tighter and avoid long term damage to the tubes.

I also have a Behringer NX3000 ordered to move up the TR from the 60ish watts I am getting out of my old bass shaker amp.
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post #5122 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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18's work really well for hoverboss in my testing
Yup, i realize that, but i don’t have room for the 18" between the VNF’s as you have, so i would need to have the VNf’s on top of the 18". And that isn’t very optimal ....
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post #5123 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
I've seen some "no flat" inner tubes being sold that are basically foam rubber and don't need inflating. Stay away from those for a BOSS add-on. They are too rigid and don't provide the air spring.
Thought experiment:
Instead of using inner tubes, how about using tires? Less wiggle but no fear of going flat and no maintenance, and also available in many sizes.
?
Michael
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post #5124 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 01:44 PM
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Am I using too many rubber isolators? Since I was going for a hovercraft and I have carpet I also removed the carpet savers that are normally recommended to create the tightest seal I could to the floor. Thoughts?
Personally I would try just 4 iso's along the front and back for a total of 8, that should give the tubes a little more of the load which might improve the TR
Maybe even 6 along the front and back for a total of 12, any more than that I don't think the tubes will be as effective
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post #5125 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Thought experiment:
Instead of using inner tubes, how about using tires? Less wiggle but no fear of going flat and no maintenance, and also available in many sizes.
?
Michael
Good thought...thinner bicycle tires may certainly work and will be more durable for sure. There will likely be some loss of bounciness with the more rigid sidewall when used for BOSS tubes when placed on their sides. But, I think the long term leakage would still be a concern even with the bicycle tires and inner tubes inside based on my experience mountain biking. However, I may not be thinking of the same tires you are.
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post #5126 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 07:21 PM
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Actually, my initial thought was to use JUST tires (with most of the support on the isolators). But maybe with inner tubes would be worth a try (with most of the support on the tires).
Just thinking out loud - obviously, putting anything on the back of my chair won't accomplish anything.
Michael
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post #5127 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magly View Post
Personally I would try just 4 iso's along the front and back for a total of 8, that should give the tubes a little more of the load which might improve the TR

Maybe even 6 along the front and back for a total of 12, any more than that I don't think the tubes will be as effective
Thanks for the suggestion. I've removed a few of the isolators, including all in the middle of the riser and I'm down to 11. I may remove some more soon after I secure my tubes with nylon straps instead of zip ties. The entire platform definitely has a bit of a wobble now when shifting around on the row of seats.

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post #5128 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zambine View Post
Thanks for the suggestion. I've removed a few of the isolators, including all in the middle of the riser and I'm down to 11. I may remove some more soon after I secure my tubes with nylon straps instead of zip ties. The entire platform definitely has a bit of a wobble now when shifting around on the row of seats.

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Is there going to be a sweet spot in the amount of air in the tubes to just lift the platform off the isolators enough to get the enhanced tactile response but still leave the platform close enough to the isolators that any shifting around of weight on the platform quickly makes contact with the isolators again, just to make it not seem unstable to anyone sitting down in the seats? or is that not going to be practical while also making sure it is high enough to not make contact with the isolators when actually watching?
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post #5129 of 5419 Old 01-21-2020, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Actually, my initial thought was to use JUST tires (with most of the support on the isolators). But maybe with inner tubes would be worth a try (with most of the support on the tires).
Just thinking out loud - obviously, putting anything on the back of my chair won't accomplish anything.
Michael
Bicycle tires are way to soft by themself, they would just compress to basically a double layer of thin rubber

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post #5130 of 5419 Old 01-22-2020, 05:59 AM
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After testing various configurations with tubes and isos, I have come to the conclusion that my best results are with 4 tubes, 2 on each side (one in front around the JBL and one behind and slightly more to the outside) plus 2 iso's right down the middle of the BOSS platform, each one in it's original position prior to making changes. It seems that as long as the board is supported in the middle, the tubes work awesome! Once I took out the isos I didn't like it as much, as it lost too much punch.
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