The Hideaway Theater - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2802Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #841 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 12:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 331 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2370 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
The tune? It is open baffle.
Oh, you just have plywood, my bad. I think @carp is getting much more SPL than you, then. I do believe you have SPL though.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #842 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 12:05 PM
Member
 
JESAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I'm going to start cutting wood for my BOSS Platform.
My love seat is 34"x60".
Is it OK if my platform is narrow, like 20"x60"?
Is wider better or can I make it narrow?

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
JESAL is offline  
post #843 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 12:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jcmccorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Madison, AL, USA
Posts: 4,488
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
jcmccorm.....that's a pretty sweet little amp board. I presume it will be mounted remotely somewhere to help abate the fan noise if it's objectionable....between the fan on the board itself and the fan in the switched power supply. Just thinking out loud....maybe it won't be very loud at all once you get everything setup.

On paper, it looks like it won't have any problems driving 1 JBL from each channel at 4 ohms.....keep us posted if you decide to use this little beauty. I bet it'll do just fine.
Thanks Tim! I ordered that amplifier, a power supply (linked below), and 4x JBLs today. I'm looking forward to trying this out. Thank you for pioneering the effort and sharing with all of us!

Power supply:
https://www.parts-express.com/mean-w...upply--320-316

Amplifier:
https://www.parts-express.com/wondom...2050)--320-335

At 350W for the power supply and 90% specified efficiency for the amplifier, I get 78.75W available for each JBL. Perfect.

I've already got two NU6000D's driving JBLs (8) and UM18's (2) and frankly just wanted to try something different for amplification on these. This power supply and amp won't take as much space in the rack and is cheaper (until you add the cost of the miniDSP that I'll need to use that is).

Anyway, thanks again Tim! I look forward to putting this together. I'll post pics.

(I'm not sure whether to thank @LastButNotLeast or not He steered me to this thread and is enabling my bass addiction )
Keith Ferguson likes this.
jcmccorm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #844 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 12:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,027
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked: 681
@harrisu - if the width is that tight, maybe make 3 separate platforms?
SteveCallas is offline  
post #845 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 12:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
DesertDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked: 1469
Woot! Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad I waiting a few days. I just ordered 4 and I think I'm going to run by the store by me to see if they have any in stock to play with right away. I need to get at least another 4. Things are starting to come together here. The isolators came in during the week and an NX3000D got delivered yesterday. I just need to get the lumber now. Trying to figure out how to get it. My truck as a flat and my car is a bit too small.
trhought likes this.

BEQ Slack group
The struggle is real for Generation Xplain Digital to the Analog and Analog to the Digital.
Klipsch RF-7III, RC-64III
SI HS-24mkIII BOSS-Sac
Sony 85X900F, Denon 8500, nVidia Shield, Apple TV
DesertDog is offline  
post #846 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 12:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 331 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2370 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
It's a great price for that much power, just one thing to keep in mind:
Output power (using 30V power supply): 64W x 4 @ 4Ω (1% THD+N)

The 108W number was at 10%. Not necessarily a deal-breaker if you don't expect to push them.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is offline  
post #847 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by JESAL View Post
I'm going to start cutting wood for my BOSS Platform.
My love seat is 34"x60".
Is it OK if my platform is narrow, like 20"x60"?
Is wider better or can I make it narrow?

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk
20" x 60" shouldn't be a problem.....I presume the drivers will be towards the mid-line of the platform or more towards the rear of the platform. If so, no problems. Try to avoid the drivers towards the front of the platform as the BOSS effect won't be as natural. Keeping them towards the back legs of the chair(s) is best.

Wider is better though if you can fit it underneath. I think you were going to mount the BOSS platform directly to the chair/couch so I think I understand what you're trying to do.

Last edited by trhought; 03-30-2019 at 01:58 PM.
trhought is offline  
post #848 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Thanks Tim! I ordered that amplifier, a power supply (linked below), and 4x JBLs today. I'm looking forward to trying this out. Thank you for pioneering the effort and sharing with all of us!

Power supply:
https://www.parts-express.com/mean-w...upply--320-316

Amplifier:
https://www.parts-express.com/wondom...2050)--320-335

At 350W for the power supply and 90% specified efficiency for the amplifier, I get 78.75W available for each JBL. Perfect.

I've already got two NU6000D's driving JBLs (8) and UM18's (2) and frankly just wanted to try something different for amplification on these. This power supply and amp won't take as much space in the rack and is cheaper (until you add the cost of the miniDSP that I'll need to use that is).

Anyway, thanks again Tim! I look forward to putting this together. I'll post pics.

(I'm not sure whether to thank @LastButNotLeast or not He steered me to this thread and is enabling my bass addiction )
jcmccorm.....welcome aboard....glad Michael steered you this way! Looking forward to seeing how your BOSS shapes up and your clever use of low cost amplification to make it come alive. It's a super easy build...just follow the guidelines in post 29 and use the prescribed isolators and you'll be enjoying your BOSS soon.

The single digit ULF and TR it provides is truly incredible and for such a ridiculously low price....like a BOSS!
trhought is offline  
post #849 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
@trhought , @SBuger , what diameter did you cut out for 12" driver on the sheet?
An 11" diameter hole is needed to mount the JBL's.....Hope this helps.
SBuger and harrisu like this.
trhought is offline  
post #850 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 02:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jcmccorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Madison, AL, USA
Posts: 4,488
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
It's a great price for that much power, just one thing to keep in mind:
Output power (using 30V power supply): 64W x 4 @ 4Ω (1% THD+N)

The 108W number was at 10%. Not necessarily a deal-breaker if you don't expect to push them.
Good point. I did see that and figured that 1% at the 64W would probably be ok. If it takes more power to dial it in, will distortion really matter here? I'm banking on my butt being not so golden that it can sense distortion
Your point is still potentially a concern though; it may not be good for the drivers.
jcmccorm is offline  
post #851 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 02:47 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 9,651
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2361 Post(s)
Liked: 1988
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
I'm banking on my butt being not so golden that it can sense distortion.
I hate it when my butt gets distorted. YMMV.

Michael
trhought likes this.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
Don't guess, measure: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post22789786
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #852 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 03:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,558
Mentioned: 259 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3647 Post(s)
Liked: 4376
Here is a video I made of the JBL GX1200 playing a 5Hz tone. I got it powered with my Emotiva XPA-200 which sends 240 watts @ 4ohms. After 20 secs I got some voice coil smell, more like resin smell. I thought I had the volume on my iPhone at 20%. Well I had it but that was before plugging in the 3.5mm cable which then changed from Speaker Volume to Headphone Volume and Headphone Volume was all the way up, meaning I was sending if not, very close to 240 watts. Waited a few mins for the voice coil to cold down, played more tones from 3Hz to 80Hz and all was good. I ordered two more drivers as backup and will keep this one as spare, just in case.

BTW, I got ZERO sound coming from the driver from 3Hz all the way up to 80Hz. The sound you hear on the video is the plastic bag hitting the driver cone and my AV rack vibrating. I tried to stop the driver cone while playing the 5Hz test tone and I wasn't able to stop it even when putting a lot of pressure. This driver is a monster and now I can see why three of these drivers can move a 1500 lbs. riser

SBuger and trhought like this.

Enrico Castagnetti @ Rythmik Audio - Dialing In Rythmik Audio Subwoofers - REW for macOS
Media Room: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Horizon w/RAAL, Sierra 2s & Lunas | Rythmik F12SE(x2) + FV25HP | Denon X6500H | Panny 820 + ATV 4K | Bluesound Node 2 | 92" Stewart ST100 | Sony VW295ES |
Desktop: Dynaudio BM5 mkIII | Rythmik L22 | Apogee Quartet | 27" iMac| Bedroom: B&W 685 S2 | Rythmik LVX12 | Marantz SR6013 | Sony X700 + ATV 4K | Sony XBR-65Z9D |

Last edited by enricoclaudio; 03-30-2019 at 03:44 PM.
enricoclaudio is offline  
post #853 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 03:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 331 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2370 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Good point. I did see that and figured that 1% at the 64W would probably be ok. If it takes more power to dial it in, will distortion really matter here? I'm banking on my butt being not so golden that it can sense distortion
Your point is still potentially a concern though; it may not be good for the drivers.
I've found my butt to be extremely sensitive to timing, and I feel like it would also be sensitive to distortion a lot more than we are to sound, but that's just a guess.

If you aren't going to push things too hard and you aren't going to implement a house curve on it, it's worth seeing if it gives you enough to be satisfied.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is offline  
post #854 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 03:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked: 3597
Ok all my TR lovin' Brethren, finally got to check this BOSS beast out and have initial impressions so far with what little bit of time I've been able to spend with it. In a word or three .....Just Freaking WOW!!! This thing met my expectations (which were quite high), and maybe even exceeded them Tim, this BOSS of yours is pure genius!!! And for a $150 ...dayum brah !!

I haven't done any big comparisons or anything yet to BKs or MAs. BUT, I can tell you that it feels like a combo of the two to me, a best of both worlds type of thing in my short experience so far, which is just bad ass in my book!! Because I love both of those in their own way and have ran them for years. Are the MAs better at singles where they really excel and as good as the BKs in that 12-27hz area that I love them for?? I don't know for sure yet, but I tell ya, its real possible ...it's damn good and this BOSS is stayin!! hehehehehe

So a bit of info about it and what I checked out so far ...

So I was kinda undecided at first but no way was I giving up on this thing. Come to find out with a little messing, I just needed to flip the invert switch in the miniDSP, and BOOM baby!!! Then it was so, clean, precise, detailed, and deep with loads of aggression. Combined with my VNF 18's (yes the VNFs are staying (NO way could I ever part with them!) and not a shocker at all to me that I still want them, as they are my bread and butter for TR and impact), just as they were with my MAs and BKs as well. They just brought what the VNFs were doing to that over the top feel that I love. It's now working the same way with the BOSS, or very very very similar anyway.

Flipping that invert was the key to it all. Like night and day difference. I know Tim said, mounted face up in the riser like I have them, no phase invert is needed but should be done on the low-rise version with the drivers facing down. Well, IDK, but worked for me. This was all subjective, as I didn't break out the VS or run sine waves or any of that, this was just the ole seat of the pants and pure subjectively, but very obvious. It just delighted me when I pressed that invert button in the mini!!!

Oh yeah, also I'm running them with one of my BK amps that I used for my MAs and BKs. I have four of them. I just wired them in series (3 JBLs) and run it off one of the BKA1000-N's. I think they are getting about 110 watts to each, which I guess is a little much, but seems good so far. Hopefully it'll stay that way and can pick up an Inuke if I need to. I was just going to use a channel of my inuke6K with the limiter set for 12 ohms, but at the last minute, thought, hey this BK amp will work and not have to take one of my subs off a channel.

So, I don't know if its my seats and setup being on suspended floor or what, but for MOVIES (I haven't tested music yet, as movies are my thing for now in the HT room) running no LPF and letting it cut off at 80hz is a no go for me. Didn't like it and way too distracting. Just WAAAAAAAAY too much feel above 20hz or so. The magic LPF that I kept coming back to is set at 18hz with a BW 12db/oct slope and cranked up a fair amount to really get the ULF and nice fade out into the 30hz area. This doesn't surprise me though, as I like the Crowson MAs set up the same way, except 4db higher set at 22hz with that same LPF BW 12db/oct high cutoff. Must be my tastes kinda like a rising House Curve, but I do think my seating and suspended floor have a lot to do with it.

Damn, if felt awesome combined with the VNFs!!!!! So far I've only checked out 2 movies for demo scenes, but at the end up demoing this thing, I was giddy!!! I used the movie 'IT' and 'Justice League', with BEQ of course for FULL band awesomeness!! I LOVE the bass in these two movies!!! Both dig super deep and hit hard all through the bass range. Highlights and areas I tested in 'IT' where the visions at the slaughter house and down in the tunnel towards the end of the movie where there is TONS of 12hz stuff. Combined with my VNFs, good god, wobble mania!!! So cool!!! And this was only at -20mv where I listen at night. Wanted to keep the volumes low at first to really get a feel for it, as this is the level where I do most of my movie watching late as night. But let me tell ya, pretty insane feeling at this volume level and just pleases me to death. Its' very important for me to be able the get this at these levels for lots of reasons. I'm sure when I get a chance to open it up more, it'll really just bring more of the same, just more intense hehehehe

The other one was "Justice League". Lots of awesome areas, but the light beam is just crazy with the BOSS combined with the VNFs. I replayed the light beam cracks and other areas several times. So satisfying and addicting it was

I'm sure I'll check out the MAs and BKs too at some point this next week and see if I think I need them in there as well. But just as is, I could be very satisfied I think. For now though I'm pleased as can be!! Thank you Tim!!! Your a genius my friend!!!

Oh yeah almost forget: I didn't think I was getting any extra sound out of the JBLs, not that I noticed anyway like carp was saying on his. Hope he can get that fixed. But I didn't runt them full range either with music, and sloped the High cut starting pretty early for movies, so I'm sure that helped.

Here's a pic of the riser and part of the setup before I loaded the seats up on top of the riser. A dark and crappy pic, but will give an idea was I was working with. My room is a bit Nearfeild heavy as you can probably see, but loving it ATM (everything is pretty much NF in this little small room though I guess LOL). I always love when folks post pics to go with the descriptions, so here ya'll go ...


My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #855 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 04:04 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,073
Mentioned: 672 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3513 Post(s)
Liked: 3195
I think my expectations of how loud the bass would be was too much based on how it went with the front row mini 1 seat riser.

Earlier I put the riser up on it's side thinking about how to attack it with either extending the joists or cutting holes or both and it occurred to me to see how loud the drivers were with the platform on it's side. Woah, seems about as loud as before!

So, I did some sweeps to compare with how loud the drivers are when the riser is down flat.

I took measurements from 2 different places, one spot was with the mic a few feet from the driver similar distance to how I measured where my head would be if I were sitting on the center of the riser on the couch, and the second measuring spot was across the room a few feet from the screen.

Here is the comparison from a few feet from the screen. The black line is when the riser was on it's side and the red line is when the riser is flat:








Here is when the mic was a few feet from the riser, again black line is when the riser was on it's side and red line was when the riser was flat:








Haha, it's louder with a completely open air behind the drivers!

So my expectations must have been way off. It would seem the only way to get less spl would be to cut holes in the baffle itself and it may take so many that in doing so it would make the riser not rigid enough so I think I'm going to leave well enough alone and tomorrow I'll start playing with EQ curves and timing to get it sounding/feeling right.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture black line riser on side from far away.PNG
Views:	93
Size:	20.5 KB
ID:	2546526   Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture black line riser on side up close.PNG
Views:	98
Size:	20.6 KB
ID:	2546528  
carp is offline  
post #856 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 04:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 331 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2370 Post(s)
Liked: 10115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Flipping that invert was the key to it all. Like night and day difference. I know Tim said, mounted face up in the riser like I have them, no phase invert is needed but should be done on the low-rise version with the drivers facing down. Well, IDK, but worked for me. This was all subjective, as I didn't break out the VS or run sine waves or any of that, this was just the ole seat of the pants and pure subjectively, but very obvious. It just delighted me when I pressed that invert button in the mini!!!
I previously posted that I thought this would be the case. The platform should move out-of-phase with the drivers due to Newton's third law.

Anyway, great to hear your impressions so far! Please keep them coming!
SBuger likes this.

Take the Red Pill (BassEQ) BassEQ Demo Clips
Video: Sony 85" X900F @ 80" eyes-to-screen (49.4° viewing angle)
Audio: Denon AVR-X4400H 7.2.4 Atmos
Mains: Fusion-15 LR, Custom Tapered Ported Volt-6 Center, Ported Volt-10 Surrounds, Custom 45°/45° Double-Angled Ported Volt-6 Atmos
Subs: The Two Towers (HT18 32cf 11.5Hz x 2), UM18 4cf x 2, Crowson MAs x 4
aron7awol is offline  
post #857 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 04:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SteveCallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,027
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked: 681
JBL vs Dayton just in case anyone is interested. The JBL will be easier to fit under most seats. The suspension on the Dayton is significantly looser. One of the two JBLs is defective out of the box and going back.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	14888959-6FCE-4870-A8B5-A14C7D89578C_1553988136503.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	96.1 KB
ID:	2546546   Click image for larger version

Name:	415EC17F-58D5-4E77-8117-410579DDB019_1553988146105.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	103.7 KB
ID:	2546548   Click image for larger version

Name:	059FBEAD-B3B6-48CB-BE09-2B317E0662CE_1553988158395.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	83.2 KB
ID:	2546550  
carp, SBuger, trhought and 1 others like this.
SteveCallas is offline  
post #858 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 04:42 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
An 11" diameter hole is needed to mount the JBL's.....Hope this helps.
Thank You Sir.
trhought likes this.
harrisu is offline  
post #859 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 05:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Gorilla Killa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tennessee Mtns
Posts: 2,695
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1326 Post(s)
Liked: 1832
These were all taken at -10mv right after each other. The only spl coming from my riser is the suspension of the driver. As you can see there is zero difference in my response from the subs only then with the riser. My subs are pro audio ported at 19hz.

I also attached a pic of the riser, while crude because I slapped it together quickly, slotting below the deck had the desired effect on cancellation. Each side is done in this fashion. There is no trickery here, Im telling you flat out other than the suspension of the driver, there isnt any spl from the riser ,with the same sweeps done with the subs as done without.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Subonly30.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	60.5 KB
ID:	2546560   Click image for larger version

Name:	Riserandsubs30.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	59.9 KB
ID:	2546562   Click image for larger version

Name:	Riseronly30.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	57.9 KB
ID:	2546564   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190330_194302.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	1.50 MB
ID:	2546566  
trhought likes this.

8hz ULF TR for the masses and the Cashless. Like a BOSS


If you can't stand behind our troops stand in front of them
Gorilla Killa is online now  
post #860 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Ok all my TR lovin' Brethren, finally got to check this BOSS beast out and have initial impressions so far with what little bit of time I've been able to spend with it. In a word or three .....Just Freaking WOW!!! This thing met my expectations (which were quite high), and maybe even exceeded them Tim, this BOSS of yours is pure genius!!! And for a $150 ...dayum brah !!

I haven't done any big comparisons or anything yet to BKs or MAs. BUT, I can tell you that it feels like a combo of the two to me, a best of both worlds type of thing in my short experience so far, which is just bad ass in my book!! Because I love both of those in their own way and have ran them for years. Are the MAs better at singles where they really excel and as good as the BKs in that 12-27hz area that I love them for?? I don't know for sure yet, but I tell ya, its real possible ...it's damn good and this BOSS is stayin!! hehehehehe

So a bit of info about it and what I checked out so far ...

So I was kinda undecided at first but no way was I giving up on this thing. Come to find out with a little messing, I just needed to flip the invert switch in the miniDSP, and BOOM baby!!! Then it was so, clean, precise, detailed, and deep with loads of aggression. Combined with my VNF 18's (yes the VNFs are staying (NO way could I ever part with them!) and not a shocker at all to me that I still want them, as they are my bread and butter for TR and impact), just as they were with my MAs and BKs as well. They just brought what the VNFs were doing to that over the top feel that I love. It's now working the same way with the BOSS, or very very very similar anyway.

Flipping that invert was the key to it all. Like night and day difference. I know Tim said, mounted face up in the riser like I have them, no phase invert is needed but should be done on the low-rise version with the drivers facing down. Well, IDK, but worked for me. This was all subjective, as I didn't break out the VS or run sine waves or any of that, this was just the ole seat of the pants and pure subjectively, but very obvious. It just delighted me when I pressed that invert button in the mini!!!

Oh yeah, also I'm running them with one of my BK amps that I used for my MAs and BKs. I have four of them. I just wired them in series (3 JBLs) and run it off one of the BKA1000-N's. I think they are getting about 110 watts to each, which I guess is a little much, but seems good so far. Hopefully it'll stay that way and can pick up an Inuke if I need to. I was just going to use a channel of my inuke6K with the limiter set for 12 ohms, but at the last minute, thought, hey this BK amp will work and not have to take one of my subs off a channel.

So, I don't know if its my seats and setup being on suspended floor or what, but for MOVIES (I haven't tested music yet, as movies are my thing for now in the HT room) running no LPF and letting it cut off at 80hz is a no go for me. Didn't like it and way too distracting. Just WAAAAAAAAY too much feel above 20hz or so. The magic LPF that I kept coming back to is set at 18hz with a BW 12db/oct slope and cranked up a fair amount to really get the ULF and nice fade out into the 30hz area. This doesn't surprise me though, as I like the Crowson MAs set up the same way, except 4db higher set at 22hz with that same LPF BW 12db/oct high cutoff. Must be my tastes kinda like a rising House Curve, but I do think my seating and suspended floor have a lot to do with it.

Damn, if felt awesome combined with the VNFs!!!!! So far I've only checked out 2 movies for demo scenes, but at the end up demoing this thing, I was giddy!!! I used the movie 'IT' and 'Justice League', with BEQ of course for FULL band awesomeness!! I LOVE the bass in these two movies!!! Both dig super deep and hit hard all through the bass range. Highlights and areas I tested in 'IT' where the visions at the slaughter house and down in the tunnel towards the end of the movie where there is TONS of 12hz stuff. Combined with my VNFs, good god, wobble mania!!! So cool!!! And this was only at -20mv where I listen at night. Wanted to keep the volumes low at first to really get a feel for it, as this is the level where I do most of my movie watching late as night. But let me tell ya, pretty insane feeling at this volume level and just pleases me to death. Its' very important for me to be able the get this at these levels for lots of reasons. I'm sure when I get a chance to open it up more, it'll really just bring more of the same, just more intense hehehehe

The other one was "Justice League". Lots of awesome areas, but the light beam is just crazy with the BOSS combined with the VNFs. I replayed the light beam cracks and other areas several times. So satisfying and addicting it was

I'm sure I'll check out the MAs and BKs too at some point this next week and see if I think I need them in there as well. But just as is, I could be very satisfied I think. For now though I'm pleased as can be!! Thank you Tim!!! Your a genius my friend!!!

Oh yeah almost forget: I didn't think I was getting any extra sound out of the JBLs, not that I noticed anyway like carp was saying on his. Hope he can get that fixed. But I didn't runt them full range either with music, and sloped the High cut starting pretty early for movies, so I'm sure that helped.

Here's a pic of the riser and part of the setup before I loaded the seats up on top of the riser. A dark and crappy pic, but will give an idea was I was working with. My room is a bit Nearfeild heavy as you can probably see, but loving it ATM (everything is pretty much NF in this little small room though I guess LOL). I always love when folks post pics to go with the descriptions, so here ya'll go ...
Shelby.....so great to hear you have your BOSS up and going! Great first impression write-up. Always loved your passion about ULF and TR and reading about it over the years. It's gratifying to provide the BOSS design to our wonderful AVS community as another tool in our toolbox to enhance the at-home cinema experience. You're truly welcome and consider it my little way of giving back. Have fun BOSS'ing around. Looking forward to learning more about how your other tools will be applied to the BOSS platform and your thoughts of those too!

On a side note.....now you got me thinking about my full size BOSS riser in the back row...I didn't add isolators to it until all my testing was completed with the front row mini-riser BOSS platform. All the mini-riser tests were done with isolators due to the rigidity benefits with the single sheet of plywood. And, all that data showed out-of-phase produced the best response for the mini-riser and I presumed it was because the drivers were upside-down.

Since the back row was built first and without isolators, I concluded in-phase was best after trying both in-phase and out-of-phase....like you said, it was a night and day difference. But, with the addition of the isolators back there a couple months later, I never thought about the possible effect on system response since I presumed it was driver alignment related. So, I never even thought about doing a back-and-forth comparison again. Now, I wonder if it would feel even better out of phase with the isolators I added after the fact. Will try and report back soon.
SBuger likes this.
trhought is offline  
post #861 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
^^^^^ OK.....this is embarrassing. Remember I said my amp is being used in bridged mono mode. I just looked at the back panel and there's a switch. It was set to phase reverse....ugggh.

I'm going back to post 29 and updating the instructions now....sorry guys!
carp, SBuger and aron7awol like this.

Last edited by trhought; 03-30-2019 at 06:32 PM.
trhought is offline  
post #862 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 06:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
^^^^^ Post 29 has been updated....
trhought is offline  
post #863 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 07:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,207
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked: 2186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Just WAAAAAAAAY too much feel above 20hz or so. The magic LPF that I kept coming back to is set at 18hz with a BW 12db/oct slope and cranked up a fair amount to really get the ULF and nice fade out into the 30hz area.
WAAAAAAY too much from the TR king? I love it . Thanks for your write up. Always a good read. One of the main reason that drew me here was the ability to achieve ULF down to 3hz with BOSS for so cheap. The crowsons option is out of the question for me price wise. I am sure lots of folks here, me included are curious if the boss can be as good as the much more expensive crowsons. Once you have dialed in your boss, can you compare it one on one versus the Crowsons with all of your subs playing please? Thanks Bud.
SBuger likes this.
tvuong is offline  
post #864 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 07:45 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked: 3597
Quote:
Originally Posted by aron7awol View Post
I previously posted that I thought this would be the case. The platform should move out-of-phase with the drivers due to Newton's third law.

Anyway, great to hear your impressions so far! Please keep them coming!
Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Shelby.....so great to hear you have your BOSS up and going! Great first impression write-up. Always loved your passion about ULF and TR and reading about it over the years. It's gratifying to provide the BOSS design to our wonderful AVS community as another tool in our toolbox to enhance the at-home cinema experience. You're truly welcome and consider it my little way of giving back. Have fun BOSS'ing around. Looking forward to learning more about how your other tools will be applied to the BOSS platform and your thoughts of those too!

On a side note.....now you got me thinking about my full size BOSS riser in the back row...I didn't add isolators to it until all my testing was completed with the front row mini-riser BOSS platform. All the mini-riser tests were done with isolators due to the rigidity benefits with the single sheet of plywood. And, all that data showed out-of-phase produced the best response for the mini-riser and I presumed it was because the drivers were upside-down.

Since the back row was built first and without isolators, I concluded in-phase was best after trying both in-phase and out-of-phase....like you said, it was a night and day difference. But, with the addition of the isolators back there a couple months later, I never thought about the possible effect on system response since I presumed it was driver alignment related. So, I never even thought about doing a back-and-forth comparison again. Now, I wonder if it would feel even better out of phase with the isolators I added after the fact. Will try and report back soon.
Thanks Tim and Aron!

Speaking of the Full Riser and Isos, phase and all that, I just know discovered looking it all over, that the front 4 Isos are tilted on their side (the front edge is almost to slip off of them all), so I went around to the back and wow, it is completely off all 4 Isos on the back edge and setting on the ground!!! It must have happened when I was messing with my seat positions at one point in my demoing and not noticed it.

Holy hell, only one side was floating on the isos up front and it was still giving me the goods, enough to carry on pretty good about in my post, Ha!! LOL Cant wait to try it with it setting up on them like its supposed to be. Hell, maybe it'll feel better with the phase switched back now LOL!!! If it doesn't, nor does it feel better back up on the isos on the back like its supposed to be, guess what ....the back part is going back on the ground, or on my MAs hahahahahaha

In fact, what made me check it was thinking about what my next move is with my MAs and BKs. So I wanted to check how much clearance I had and all that, and to my surprise, NONE in the back since it was completely off the Isos. I havnt stuck them on yet and just left the sticky covers one them all since I didn't down what I'd be doing with the MAs and Iso positioning etc.

I know one thing though, to get them Isos back under there, I'll have to take the 3 seats off to get it done, or at least 2 of them. The Riser is freaking heavy all loaded up with the seats. WAY too heavy for me to lift it up to straighten the front Isos out and put them back in under along the back edge.
trhought and aron7awol like this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #865 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 07:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked: 3597
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
WAAAAAAY too much from the TR king? I love it . Thanks for your write up. Always a good read. One of the main reason that drew me here was the ability to achieve ULF down to 3hz with BOSS for so cheap. The crowsons option is out of the question for me price wise. I am sure lots of folks here, me included are curious if the boss can be as good as the much more expensive Crowsons. Once you have dialed in your boss, can you compare it one on one versus the Crowsons with all of your subs playing please? Thanks Bud.
No prob man, will do! I can pretty much already tell you though with just what little bit I'm messed with it, if its not as good as the Crowsons, its damn close. Close enough, especially with that kind of price difference!! If one is not afraid of a little DIY, and wants to save a whole lotta coin, I'd say it's a no brain'er. I know I've seen you say you've experienced Crowsons on more than one occasion before and didn't just love them. I'd lay money they were just providing too much about 20hz and over though. I've found that can be a real problem can be be very distracting if this is happening. Even as realistic as the MAs are, and the BOSS as well, too much in the 20hz and over can be not a good thing and feel artificial. HA! Yep I said it, too much TR (in certain areas) can be not such a good thing. Did I just loose my title with that statement!? LOL

They are soooo good below 20hz though and where they shine, at least with the MAs, especially under 10hz. They just may be unmatched in this area. Maybe not though, especially with some BOSS designs.
trhought likes this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #866 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 08:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ladeback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,432
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked: 469
Send a message via MSN to Ladeback
FYI
I see the GX 12" is on a sale at Best Buy for $29.99.
SBuger and trhought like this.

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
Ladeback is offline  
post #867 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 08:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
@trhought , just got three sheet rocks. I have one concern though and I hope I didn't screw it up. I flipped the recliner and measured from bottom to top and it came out to be 29". That's the width I had all my sheets cut as well thinking that it will the sheets almost disappear under the seats. But now I'm thinking if its not wide enough to get natural TR????? I hope there isn't any specific dimension constrain. I believe I read somewhere that having sheet for 1 seat only with one driver didn't produce as good (realistic) TR as compared to having three drivers on sheet with bigger size. In my case, each sheet is 96" x 29". Hope that's ok???
harrisu is offline  
post #868 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 08:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SBuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 322 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1161 Post(s)
Liked: 3597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
FYI
I see the GX 12" is on a sale at Best Buy for $29.99.
Who ever is in charge of that probably saw this thread and said hey, put them JBLs on sale NOW, and we'll probably sell out by tomorrow!!! LOL
trhought and Ladeback like this.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
SBuger is offline  
post #869 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
trhought's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,177
Mentioned: 79 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Thanks Tim and Aron!

Speaking of the Full Riser and Isos, phase and all that, I just know discovered looking it all over, that the front 4 Isos are tilted on their side (the front edge is almost to slip off of them all), so I went around to the back and wow, it is completely off all 4 Isos on the back edge and setting on the ground!!! It must have happened when I was messing with my seat positions at one point in my demoing and not noticed it.

Holy hell, only one side was floating on the isos up front and it was still giving me the goods, enough to carry on pretty good about in my post, Ha!! LOL Cant wait to try it with it setting up on them like its supposed to be. Hell, maybe it'll feel better with the phase switched back now LOL!!! If it doesn't, nor does it feel better back up on the isos on the back like its supposed to be, guess what ....the back part is going back on the ground, or on my MAs hahahahahaha

In fact, what made me check it was thinking about what my next move is with my MAs and BKs. So I wanted to check how much clearance I had and all that, and to my surprise, NONE in the back since it was completely off the Isos. I havnt stuck them on yet and just left the sticky covers one them all since I didn't down what I'd be doing with the MAs and Iso positioning etc.

I know one thing though, to get them Isos back under there, I'll have to take the 3 seats off to get it done, or at least 2 of them. The Riser is freaking heavy all loaded up with the seats. WAY too heavy for me to lift it up to straighten the front Isos out and put them back in under along the back edge.
Hey Shelby....Thanks for the additional feedback. Yeah, you'll probably notice some improvement with the back of the BOSS back up on isolators....it really depends where the drivers were mounted also....they were probably getting some breathing room even with the platform canted, but the additional "bounce" back there should help.

Regarding phase, you're setup is correct.....my instructions were wrong. My BOSS amp was flipped to reverse polarity on the back of it. All my tests were done by simply switching positive and negatives at the BOSS platforms. So when I thought they were wired in-phase, they were actually out of phase and vice-versa.

I did reverse polarity on my back-riser tonight after reading your original BOSS report. It sounded terrible so I put it back where it was. Then, I was getting ready to post my results and thought, well maybe I have the wires reversed at the amp. So, I went back there and they were OK, but that's when I discovered the reverse polarity switch was on.....

Post 29 has been updated....basically, magnet out should be wired in-phase and magnet out should be wired out-of-phase....exactly the opposite as I had originally prescribed......oh boy!

Thanks for leading me down that discovery path!

Enjoy your BOSS!
SBuger likes this.
trhought is offline  
post #870 of 2911 Old 03-30-2019, 08:16 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,128
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 933 Post(s)
Liked: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Ok all my TR lovin' Brethren, finally got to check this BOSS beast out and have initial impressions so far ...
Awesomeeeeee. So good to see you are happy. If you are satisfied then I'm sure I won't have any concern liking it . You were concern about riser being too high for your screen and also ATMOS. How did that go with extra 6"? Also, did you try BOSS alone itself in movies without any other subs to see what itself brings to the experience? Do you have "A Quiet Place". I think it has tons of that scary shaking bass.
SBuger likes this.
harrisu is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off