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The Hideaway Theater

679K views 8K replies 330 participants last post by  Rodwork 
#1 · (Edited)
******Edit******

For those coming here to get details about the BOSS (Baffle Open Sub Shaker), those pictures and description start in Post 10 and there's a drawing and guidelines in Post 29 if you want to construct your own. Also, there's a few testimonials below from members who have built a BOSS and posted their impressions. Wanted to share for those who are on the fence about building one for your living room or theater and don't want to read through this entire thread to find these golden nuggets.

Also, one member asked what I thought was a great question...."what's the difference between a BOSS and other sub-in-riser platforms we've seen before."

BOSS features:

1. Open Baffle Design...no SPL to worry about integrating with your far-field subs. Set it and forget it.
2. Drivers mounted in horizontal arrangement....more efficient transfer of TR to the body than vertical arrangements
3. More excursion than buttkickers and maybe even more than tactile transducers....comparison testing coming soon.
4. More sensitive than buttkickers or tactile transducers.....only 80 watts needed per driver
5. Main volume levels can be kept low while still delivery respectable TR and the experience doesn't get lost with low MV
6. As MV approaches reference, the BOSS keeps responding in a natural way keeping in line the the far-field SPL increase
7. Low cost....it's only $90 for the 3 drivers plus a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood for $35
8. The mini-riser BOSS can fit under any front row or living room chair/couch. It's only 1.75" tall!

Number 1 and 2 are the probably the biggest differences between the BOSS and more traditional subs in risers....being an open baffle design, means it's more efficient and doesn't take much power to reach max excursion. Open baffle also means the sound waves cancel and there's no SPL...perfect for integration with existing far-field subs without having to re-calibrate. The horizontal configuration means most of that excursion transfers directly to your body in an up-down motion which is how we feel ULF in the real world.

There's some videos of the BOSS's in action also in posts 72 and 73. After watching the videos, remember all that ULF and TR is in every seat and every row of our theater including our 3rd row bar...all for less than $250 and 80 watts per driver.

-----------------Testimonials ---------------

More news about my BOSS lowriser build,

This thing is one of the best things I've added to my home theater period.

This morning I still had company visiting and was asked to please demo the Rock movie "San Andreas" it's a bass filtered movie also so I loaded up the BEQ for that movie and sat off left center of the front row. Guest sat in the center. OMG this was the most amazing and realistic feeling of what an earthquake would feel like replicated in my room. From our hair moving in the air to the BOSS crushing my body as the earthquake scene was starting in the restaurant scene. I pushed the MV 2 -dB higher then my now lower main listening volume to MV-10 I was downright grinning from ear to ear yet scared of my neighbors calling me to turn it down. Yeah, that didn't happen and that made me happy I'm achieving my goals of not disturbing my neighbors and having a great experience in the process.
Totally agree, my 18 was good on the carpet but the Iso's bring a whole new level. I watched War of Worlds with just the riser on and zero bass spl, nothing but wide open TR. Low Pass at 40 HZ keeps it real. This really is a game changer in that 2k for a Crowson Package is probably not going to be on your radar after install. I realize I went bigger than needed, im in for $60 at this point because I had stuff not in use. Although this is AVS, if we weren't all trying to top the next guy we'd all have Bose systems:)

I could not take anymore TR, this is the shudder my house did with my IB but under my seat and not my house moaning. Anybody with a couple hundred bucks, free time, and yearning for some TR should be rolling with this.

This was a quick build to see if it would work and if I liked it. I may just carpet this and do the couch section with the other 18, considering the jbls since they are shorter but ill only be out wood if I stick with what i have.

Good looking out Tim, next level ****e.!!!!!! this really deserves a thread in the DIY section.
I was worried about the 3 sheets hurting because of the extra weight, but this thing shakes the platform and my recliner so violently and seemingly effortlessly that you would think it weighs nothing.

It just doesnt seem right that such a low level 15 inch driver powered by a receiver of all things should be able to thrash my seat around so violently, but it does it, cleanly and with authority. The effect is not like what you would experience in a 4d movie at Universal Studios, that tactile is more one noted and gets repetitive quickly. With this you actually feel each bass note as it was intended.

Using Aquaman as an example, the shark ramming the glass feels very different from the soldiers busting through the light house walls which feels very different from a trident blast which feels very different from a water bubble burst. It makes you like it more and more as opposed to growing tired of it quickly and wanting to turn it off.
Ok all my TR lovin' Brethren, finally got to check this BOSS beast out and have initial impressions so far with what little bit of time I've been able to spend with it. In a word or three .....Just Freaking WOW!!! This thing met my expectations (which were quite high), and maybe even exceeded them :) :) :) Tim, this BOSS of yours is pure genius!!! And for a $150 ...dayum brah :eek:!!

I haven't done any big comparisons or anything yet to BKs or MAs. BUT, I can tell you that it feels like a combo of the two to me, a best of both worlds type of thing in my short experience so far, which is just bad ass in my book!! Because I love both of those in their own way and have ran them for years. Are the MAs better at singles where they really excel and as good as the BKs in that 12-27hz area that I love them for?? I don't know for sure yet, but I tell ya, its real possible ...it's damn good and this BOSS is stayin!! hehehehehe :D :D
Last night @Archaea was over and I showed him the BOSS setup both the front row and rear row. Both are a lot of fun, the more I use the BOSS the more I don't think I will keep my VNF sub or my Crowson.

An added/unexpected benefit to the rear riser is that the bass sounds fantastic even with the front 8 18's muted, especially when sitting in the back row. I wasn't happy the day I set it all up because I wanted little to no sound out of the rear riser like I have in the front mini riser but now that I have it all dialed in I'm really happy I have that bass sound. Pretty dumb luck (after tweaking the distances of course) that everything is playing together so nicely.
Yes, I visited carp's last night, and it's the best transducer experience I've had so far. I've tested/experienced Buttkickers, Clarks, Earthquakes, Guitammer, Aura, Crowson, and nearfield subs (ported JTR captivators and various sealed subwoofers up to 24", 18" 15" 10", etc), so that covers most of them. The BOSS was really amazing. @carp clearly has a fantastic feel down to 3Hz test tone on the front BOSS platform, and down to 4Hz on the rear riser platform. He showed me quite a bit of configurations and demo material last night in the short time we had and I walked away very impressed. He's been telling me it was good, but I had my doubts, figuring I already had three nearfield 18's, how much better could it be?

Well, it's just another level of shake all together, and does feel very natural. It's the top of the crop for tactile feedback IMO. So much so that I'm going to map out using three Infinity Kappa Perfect 10.1 d 10" subs I already have into my own BOSS platform at some point. Those squishy rubber feet you guys are using seem to help a lot too. Just carp's bodyweight getting onto and off of the riser could be felt, and made the riser bounce, with those feet. @carp's room has so much ULF firepower, with or without the BOSS it's great - but the BOSS takes it to Plaid.

Blankets sitting on his chairs literally were bouncing off, my feet were visibly hoping up and down on his ottoman that sits on the rear riser in front of the couch. Frankly - it can easily be too much, but it's fun! Price to tactile performance is off the charts with those JBL drivers!!!
Update...I finally stopped testing and actually watched a movie. I just watched Overlord with my dad and nephew. OMG the bass in the movie...legit. The BOSS platform...wow!!!

I usually spend a lot of time turning things up and listening for anything out of place and gradually go from there. I just went for it LOL. I honestly was waiting for something to go 💥. Those little JBLs just kept truckin. Man it felt just as powerful as the Crowsons (at the level I was listening). I can't believe it.

It seemed that the platform benefited from the added weight of people sitting on it besides just me. No noises no creaks it just felt good.

After watching Overlord, I put on the Hulk. It handled the street fight scene like a champ. I'll play with timing and maybe a little EQ but I'm still in disbelief how good it is at this point right now. I’ll gradually work to finding the limits so I can bring up single digits but man what great follow up to last night’s fail.
The BOSS got fired up tonight and wow. It's almost violent, I love it. I started off playing a test tone video that starts 1hz, jumps to 5 hz and then increases by 5 every 4 seconds. I get nothing at 1hz, but 5 hz gets a nice bit of rumble, then gets strong at 10, 15, and 20, then eases back a little. The test tones were actually a bit deceptive. Playing about about -20 there was a huge amount of mechanical noise from the riser. Almost like I hadn't secured the frame fully to the plywood. I thought it was going to destroy itself so I back the gain knobs way down. It had me nervous.

I switched over to some demo clips and found them lacking. I had to turn the gains back up to about where they were before. When playing them turned back up I wasn't getting any of the mechanical noise an beating the test tones gave. So I was back to being happy.

A couple of the other scenes I was testing with:
- The Art of Flight demo scene from the AVS disc. It had a nice feel to it, nothing to strong and mixed nicely. Like when they're riding the mini-avalanches it gave a slight rumble like I was on the snow with it. The other thing that stood out was when the mics were picking up the helicopter blades. There was a nice feel that went a long with them.

- Pulse server room. I don't want you guys to bust my BOSS-sac but it was almost too much being played at -10. It was teeth chattering and bone crunching. I had the 24" turned off at the time. If I turn it on and play the scene at 0 like I've done in the past I think I might literally get ill from how violent the BOSS will be along with how much pressurization will be in the room. I might be able to torture people with it. I wish W was still president so that I could make some extra coin doing interrogations for him. ;)

- Both the Dolby Amaze and Leafless demos had nice rumble to them where they should.

Then a gave a quick spin with a few songs to try it out. I grabbed NiN Down In It, Glass Animals Gooey, and Anthrax Bring the Noise. All of them had a nice texture going to them that was missing before in my system. It made for a nice enhancement. I might play around with making a separate config on the miniDSP for music with the cross point slightly higher and tailored more for the 40-60 hz range.

Over all it's been a good first night and I think it'll get better as I dial it in more with everything else.
Yesterday and this morning have me sold the mini riser is the better experience as well. There's audible spl as opposed to the full riser I had, not interfering with the FR or experience but when running with REW sweeps it is there. 70db at -15 so its nothing when running in the pack. Its not as intense as the 18's in some scenes, but it's isn't enough for me to go to a full riser again. If I put a back row in that will be ok since I won't be sitting there for the most part anyway.

Running with no lpf is growing on me quickly, reminds me of sitting in a car when listening to music. Spotify has the JW soundtrack with different mixes that all sound great. Think, The Drowning, In My Mind all sound epic.

Overall great experience across the board, probably paint it next weekend and close the chapter on the build and enjoy.
Yep I’ve only got 3 JBLs in the full riser (1 per seat) and MAs on top of platform. @Sekosche – yep they combine well on top of the riser.

I gotta say though, the more time I spend with this BOSS the more I love it. I messed with it quite a bit today and it’s just so good. In fact, I may completely do away with all other TR components, except the VNF subs. Between the BOSS and VNFs combined (I love my VNFs too), I don’t know that I’ve ever felt more natural, realistic and intense (when needed) TR on these movie tracks. The BOSS is very, very, very good!!!!!!!!! Actually, I can’t hardly believe just how good it is. After todays sessions, I think if I use my MAs at all, it’ll only be in the 10hz and under range. I need to mess with them some more in the mix down real low only and see. The MAs are great too and have serious power (I’ve got 6 of them and love them) and they feel really similar, but the BOSS just feels so right in so many ways on these movie tracks, almost to the point of being pretty freaky/uncanny that it’s so real feeling. I’m seriously impressed with this thing, especially in combo with my VNFs (for me, I think it may just be a match made in heaven :))

Thanks, Tim, for sharing your ‘baby’ with us!!! It really is pretty crazy just how realistic this thing feels once you get it dialed in well to work with your seating type.

Since I’ve got room for 3 more JBLs in my full riser (6’' x 40” x 8’) I may put in 3 more JBLs for 6. I don’t even know if I need them though. At least it didn't seem like it today.
I applied the recommended filters on the iNuke, and bumped up my Crowson limiter to their max handling (always ran them 100 watts lower per MA for safety), and I lowered the BOSS to 345 watts total, or 115w per driver, because they’re seriously powerful with more than 150w each and I have yet to hear a bad sound from them.

I remember being pretty darn excited when I got the Crowsons, as my large room on hard floors had zero TR down low, and this was long before I had all soft isolators that really help out, but the BOSS has taken TR to “a whole nother level.”
I continue to be impressed by the BOSS. Able to get TR down to 3-4hz for the amount of money spent on this is insane. It feels like an extension of the main subs and seems so natural and integrated it’s fantastic. I have been playing with the crossover and LS filters and finally finding what I like. Had never known what 4hz feels like. It’s a strange wobble and me likes it. [emoji16]
I agree. If I hadn’t experience the BOSS for myself, I‘m not sure I’d believe most people if they told me I’d get this kind of performance from what’s essentially a sheet of plywood on isos and a few cheap $29 drivers. We’re lucky to get such low pricing in the states!

For BOSS-curious people, if the design will work with your seating and room, I strongly suggest you try it. [emoji3]

As you said, being an extension of the subs and feeling so natural is why it’s ridiculous to me how cheap one can build it for versus the alternatives. I really love my Crowsons for what they are capable of and ease of use, but the BOSS application puts them to shame in price/performance.

The BOSS is also way more visceral than even my near field subs could hope to provide into most of my body. I get good chest/kidney punch from nearfields, but it almost feels like my pants are going to rip off with the BOSS. [emoji33]

Also, I forgot if I mentioned I actually turned off one of my 18” marty subs to run the BOSS, because I ran out of amp channels for now; and it’s still vastly superior to the previous setup in TR throughput.
I thought Hacksaw Ridge was a great workout for my BOSS. Until I saw this movie I really questioned what all the hype was about when it came to all this TR everyone was talking about. When the navy bombarded the island to soften up the Japanese positions my wine glass was doing gymnastics! :D
I have been playing with my BOSS for the last couple days and like everyone said: it is amazing, truly is. I feel thing I didn’t notice before as it wobbles a lot more now. The first scene I tried was the Lone survivor chopper scene as I knew I didn’t feel anything with my subs before. This time with boss, I can feel it in my seat/body as the chopper flying through - very cool.

What I like the most about the BOSS is being able to have the TR and wobble effects at -25MV on my AVR and it feels very real. I was testing the boss out with a song from Paul Rodgers: Live in Glasgow but I enjoyed it so much that I ended up watching the whole concert. It sounded like I was there in the concert with each drum and bass notes hitting my back and body :D. To test it out, without changing anything, I stood up, and the feel to the sound was missing then I sat down and boom there it was :):cool:

I spent about $900 and a weekend building my 8 Jbl boss, it is easily one of the best upgrade I made to my theater. I have been to about 20 AVSers’ houses listening to some of the badest *ss systems hitting above reference up to 150db and I am glad to report that my boss TR has surpassed the TR of those systems :eek::D

Again, I would like to thank Tim for such a great find and thanks Sbuger for all of his inspirational posts :p:cool:
I think my "BOSS" set up is complete, so I feel like I should post final impressions, but I don't think I have much to say that hasn't already been said -- it feels great, startling, and realistic. I've never gotten anything close to it before, especially on my carpet over concrete floor. And it solved a dilemma I was having with my main subs -- I had JTR 118HT subs that I loved for movies, but they weren't cutting it for me for music. I picked up some Rythmik FV18s and they are way more musical, but they are noticeably less violent than the JTRs for movies. But now that fight doesn't matter anymore, the JBLs directly mounted to my seats are about a hundred times more violent than the JTRs ever were, so I can have that violence for movies but also have my main subs be as musical and articulate as possible. Thanks for helping me end up with the best of both worlds!
Everyone always talks about the huge impacts of the BOSS - explosions, gunshots, etc. What I don't hear people talk about a lot is the subtlety it has. To me that is what is so great about it - when it needs to be delicate and add just a very slight feeling it does. When it needs to tear the chair apart it does it's best to do it. And everywhere in between it lends itself to the experience. What this serves to do is DRAW YOU IN to the movie like nothing else I've ever experienced even if the movie is mainly dialog the subtle vibrations that you feel rather than hear just make it so much more like you are in the movie rather than watching it. I will never have another theater without one.

******End Edit*******

Wanted to share some pics of our 20 year old home theater and give back to our wonderful AVS community.

My apologies up front for my lack of a DSLR camera and resulting magazine perfect images. These pictures are from my trusty i-phone to help illustrate some design concepts and ideas despite the lack of lush colors, exquisite detail and sharp images.

After that disclaimer, if you’re still reading, I’m a long time lurker, seldom poster but daily AVS’er. We GC’d our house in 1998 with provisions for a 17’x30x’9’ dedicated home theater in the basement. Being in Louisiana, a basement is a luxury most don’t have and we’ve been making the most of it ever since the home completed in late ’98. We didn’t have any children when the house was built and now have three, ages 19, 15 and 13. The theater has provided many great memories so far for friends and family along the way.

When designing the house and theater space in the mid-90’s, internet was in its infancy without many of the readily available home theater design/construction resources available today. Most of my knowledge came from books and magazines from the day that sometimes featured articles on dedicated home theater spaces and some of the science behind room acoustics. Being a mechanical engineer with an understanding of physics, wave propagation, resonance frequencies, etc….I knew getting the room right from the start would pay dividends later in many ways.

The theater room was basically constructed with sound attenuation in mind using methods of the time….not even sure if clips, hat channel and green glue existed back then? The walls are 6” thick and constructed of staggered 2 x 4 studs spaced on 2’ centers to make for flexible and non-coupled walls to absorb the bass standing waves and minimize sound intrusion into adjacent living spaces in the basement. The ceiling drywall is hung from 2 x 8 rafters on 2’ centers for the same sound attenuating purpose and are decoupled from the floor joists for the main floor which are standard 2 x 12s’ on 12” centers to support the weight and span from the house above.

The floor wasn’t treated and is simply commercial grade carpet glued to the concrete slab. The projector is mounted to the 2 x 12 floor joists above so the projector wouldn’t vibrate during heavy bass activity.

There’s no stage and the riser in the back is 12” high and stuffed with pink fluffy.

When we built the house, we weren’t sure how long we would live in it. Once we started having kids, we stopped moving and this looks like it will be our forever home. Especially since we doubled down and also built the pool of our dreams about 10 years ago to accompany the theater of our dreams.

The pool, like our house, is nestled about 100 yards into the woods and is called our hideaway pool for obvious reasons. It was only appropriate to name the theater as such to follow standard “dedicated home theater build” etiquette.





 

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#3,071 ·
The last time I checked this thread was in March. I had read everything from the 1st post up to March. Has there been anything new when it comes to buying the drivers? I'm in the very beginning stage as I've just purchased some new seats so I could get the dimensions needed to start planning out my Boss.

Anything new of importance or a post # area I should be reading?

I'm planning for a 3 seater, one riser. Probably just a mini since we're only 1 row. I do have plenty of space underneath the seats tho.
 
#3,080 ·
Geo....welcome back. Good question. The only thing fairly new in the last couple months was the addition of the carpet savers in Post 29. Those carpet savers are great if you have thick carpet and carpet padding. These will allow the isolators to rest on top of the savers and provide the needed clearance between the carpet and the drivers if you're planning a mini-riser.

If you're undecided on a mini-riser BOSS or full size riser BOSS, the mini is good for a stealth appearance and high WAF. However, the mini presents some challenges because the drivers are mounted upside down and fitting those under furniture can be hard. The full size riser doesn't have this challenge if it's constructed of 2x6's or taller lumber because the drivers can be mounted with the magnets into the cabinet.

The other thing to consider is your viewing angles to your screen or TV. Some who have constructed a full size riser actually like being up higher and more in line with the image for more immersion.

Either design will deliver the same experience.....it just depends on goals and aesthetics.

Hope this helps.
 
#3,075 ·
For a BOSS setup with 4 of those drivers, that’s actually overkill but will work nicely if you have a way to attenuate the power. You can wire those all up for a 4ohm load and only use at most maybe a 1/4 of that amp.
 
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#3,081 ·
Remy....Good question. I've been using WinISD successfully and it correlates pretty closely to actual BOSS builds. Just select a closed design when starting a new project once you select the driver. Once you have the project started, set the cabinet size to 4,000 cu. ft. (the largest volume allowable) and select the cone excursion graph. Then just go the the signal options and start increasing the power until Xmax is reached on the graph. That will tell you how much power the driver can handle before exceeding Xmax. That cone excursion response plot will also give you an idea how that driver will behave in an infinite baffle/open baffle arrangement (the 4,000 cu. ft you selected earlier). Hope this helps.
 
#3,098 ·
I did increase the sub distance in the AVR, but only 4' since I was already at 21' then made the appropriate changes in the miniDSP for the sub delays. Music syncs up just fine. The club scene in John Wick is better, but still seems a little off. Maybe the deep bass kicks are just a little different than expected.
 
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#3,099 ·
A few pictures. Apparently I forgot to take a few while building. Also a quick Vibsensor of the Edge of Tomorrow intro. Didn't really read anything about the app yet, so just used the default settings. Looks pretty much like others I've seen.
 

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#3,100 ·
Can it be possible to play a trick for audy EQ about the BOSS technology?, what will be the case if we use splitting cable for MIC IN from SUB PRE?, does this cause the problem?? my thought for that is to trick him with the perfect response and timing so later we can fine tune the BOSS just by miniDSP.. I have not yet construct my own BOSS technology to try it by myself
 
#3,101 ·
Subwoofer Substitute?

I apologize if this question/answer is among the 3100 posts in this thread. Is the BOSS a substitute for subwoofers with music and/or movies? Is it for LFE only, supplementing subwoofers? Thanks.
 
#3,103 ·
I apologize if this question/answer is among the 3100 posts in this thread. Is the BOSS a substitute for subwoofers with music and/or movies? Is it for LFE only, supplementing subwoofers? Thanks.
The BOSS is more about generating vibrations or Tactile Response (TR) under your seating than it is about generating the bass sound (SPL) that a subwoofer would make (although the BOSS does generate a small amount of audible sound in the upper bass range that you probably won't notice). It should add impact to both movies and music.
 
#3,102 ·
I think the delay percieved originates from something else than a LPF. If you think it might do, just compare the LPF to an extreme PEQ point combined with a HS doing the same thing.
Looks like the LPF has its greatest delay at the lowest frequencies. That doesn't make much sense to me as these frequencies are basically unaffected by the filter, but it's just like that.
 
#3,113 · (Edited)
Guys,

After going through the whole thread, i have put together a BOSS setup for my hometheater using 3 JBL speakers, eventhough i have a Crown XLS 1502, i just bought a Behringer NX3000D as the BOSS amp.

I am kind of lost on what settings i need to use for the various DSP stuff. Any help is much appreciated.

Kudos to Tim for letting us all know about this :)

Thx

Edit : I do not currently have a MiniDSP, but might add in the future :)
 
#3,116 ·
aravindhan.....welcome aboard! Great to hear you're getting closer to starting your build and piecing together the ingredients.

Don't worry too much about the DSP yet. Once you get the BOSS platform setup, just set the LPF in your AVR to 80Hz and then run the subwoofer output from your AVR into the Behringer NX3000D. That will provide a full signal to the Behringer so that you can start to experiment with different DSP settings.

Once you get your Behringer, you can start to get familiar with the DSP through the documents and downloads. The first thing you'll want to do is set the power limiter so read up on that first.

As always, as you get closer to dialing things in, just let us know and we can help with any DSP questions from there.

Welcome aboard!
 
#3,114 ·
Started my BOSS build today, decided to go with two pieces of 3/4" plywood & am going to glue & screw them together.


I am going to bolt the plywood directly to the bottom of the seat frame to try and keep the contact patch between the plywood & frame as large as possible.


I was thinking last night I think I should have enough room to be able to mount the drivers either firing up into the seat pad or down into the floor.


Which orientation would provide the best performance?
 
#3,115 ·
Adam....Thanks....great plan on screwing and gluing the 2 pieces together. That will make for a very rigid platform plus provide some more clearance for the drivers. Also, attaching the seating frame to the platform is good to not only keep the seating from moving but also help to transfer that TR to your butt.

Regarding orientation of the drivers, either way will deliver the same experience. It really depends on preference, fit and the look you're after.

Hope this helps.
 
#3,118 ·
Looking to start my build, and I want to search for speaker that will work yet still be budget orientated. Since the JBL's aren't at the $30 price anymore, what are the specs to look for in a sub for a BOSS build? Is Xmax the important one? How much does the Fs play in to the decision?
Was 12" selected due to the low cost at the time? How would a two 10" subs vs one 12" or 15" compare?
Lots of questions, thanks in advance for the help!
 
#3,119 ·
7thLetter.....welcome aboard. Great Question. Post 29 has a hyperlink to some speaker characteristics to focus on for a BOSS driver. For convenience, that hyperlink is right here.

The 12" inch JBL was selected only because it was so incredibly inexpensive for a woofer that has some respectable capability. That's considered the BOSS baseline driver since it was used in the original development. Since then, other drivers have surfaced and to help compare to the baseline JBL, I created a new parameter called shaker potential (SP). Basically, SP can be calculated by taking the Xmax percentage of baseline and multiplying that by the Mms percentage of baseline to get an overall percentage relative to the baseline JBL called shaker potential (SP). WinISD can then be used to model that driver in an open baffle to see how much power it will take to reach Xmax and how that speaker will behave in an open baffle configuration. This will give you an idea how many of the alternate drivers will be needed to equal the JBL performance and also how much power it will take for those alternate drivers.

For example, if a sub has half the Xmax and half the Mms, then it's shaker potential will be .25x the JBL. So, it would take 4 of those subs to equal 1 JBL. Then enter those T/S parameters for the alternate sub into WinISD and model for power requirements to figure out how much power will be needed for those 4 drivers. Alternately, a bigger driver, such as a 15", that has for example 1.5 times more Xmax and 1.5 times more Mms, will have a SP of 2.25x, so 2 of those 15" drivers would equal 4.5 of the JBL's and WinISD can be used to determine how much power those 2 15" drivers will need to reach Xmax.

Post 29 also has a hyperlink to alternate BOSS drivers tried so far with reported great results. That hyperlink is located here also.

As always, if there's a driver you have in mind, just let me know and I can model and compare to the baseline JBL also.

Hope this helps.
 
#3,123 · (Edited)
Further progress today, I glued & screwed together the plywood & test fitted it to the front row.

I only have two little clamps so I clamped & screwed all the way round the edges I just hope the screws pull the two pieces of plywood together enough. I guess its inevitable that some voids will be present between the two pieces.

I am thinking of mounting the drivers firing upward so the piece of plywood that is in direct contact with the seat frame has the driver mounted to it.

I have had to countersink holes in the plywood to allow for the bolt heads that protrude from the bottom of the frame, this allows as much contact patch with the frame as possible. Forgot to take pictures of this but will do so when I start the rear row.
 

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#3,125 ·
I only have two little clamps so I clamped & screwed all the way round the edges I just hope the screws pull the two pieces of plywood together enough. I guess its inevitable that some voids will be present between the two pieces.
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When you mount your speakers use a bit longer screws that would tie the plywoods. I think 8 around each speaker.

I did the same and mounted the head on the top through my loveseat frame. Good strong base for the boss.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#3,137 ·
I got the second row BOSS platform test fitted today so both are now ready for the holes to be cut out for the drivers.

I think I will paint them now as I dont think I am going to get my drivers until next week now :(

I totally forgot I had this driver in the attic which got me thinking do I dare mount it in the the center of my riser for the rear row :D

I would need to directly mount the couch to the riser & then put the isolators under the riser instead of under the BOSS platform but am unsure how effective it would be.

The driver will probably destroy my riser though :D
 

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#3,138 ·
Looks great Adam....nicely done on both of your risers. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. If you happen to have the model number for that driver, I could try to find the T/S parameters and model it. @Gorilla Killa is using a rather large and hefty driver for his BOSS platform and has reported outstanding results. :)
 
#3,140 ·
Well after reading about half way through this thread and a few PM's with Tim I decided I should set my riser up for BOSS. so today I installed the ISOS and ran wiring for both a front mini riser and a rear riser. Not going to lie I was pretty surprised some little 1.25" pieces of rubber could move this riser like they did, and that was just rocking it with my feet LOL.



For any one that has made a BOSS out of a full size riser how do you mount the base trim? I'm thinking just leave like a 1/2" gap. Thoughts?

Thanks to Tim and the folks in this thread for helping me figure this whole BOSS thing out!
 

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#3,142 ·
Well after reading about half way through this thread and a few PM's with Tim I decided I should set my riser up for BOSS. so today I installed the ISOS and ran wiring for both a front mini riser and a rear riser. Not going to lie I was pretty surprised some little 1.25" pieces of rubber could move this riser like they did, and that was just rocking it with my feet LOL.

For any one that has made a BOSS out of a full size riser how do you mount the base trim? I'm thinking just leave like a 1/2" gap. Thoughts?

Thanks to Tim and the folks in this thread for helping me figure this whole BOSS thing out!
pkinneb...Thanks for sharing the picture of your full size riser. Looks awesome! Can't wait to learn more about your impressions once you complete your BOSS and experience a few of your favorite demo scenes. Also great to see the 1.25" isos aren't even noticeable until you step onto the riser of course :)
 
#3,141 ·
Question about how to use WinISD to model a driver.


I tried with a clarion PXW1552 (Xmax 12.5 and mms 270 = 3375 or about 1.25 times a JBL) but the graph turned out identical to the JBL !!


I fed it 105w to bring the max excursion to the 12.5mm - is that correct ?

But I had to put it in a sealed box as there is no option for an open baffle.


Only just downloaded WinISD so maybe as I play with it I will learn how to use it properly ;)



 
#3,143 ·
niterida.....yep, sealed box is the right model and then just select 4,000 cu. ft. for the volume (the max allowable). This will model how that driver will behave in an infinite baffle configuration. This will also be the same as how that driver will behave in an open baffle configuration, the only difference is infinite baffle will produce SPL while open baffle won't produce SPL because one is sealed and the other is not. This is also why you should disregard any of the SPL plots in WinISD when modeling a BOSS driver because WinISD thinks it's a closed box when really it's open.

However, when selecting the cone excursion graph and looking at its frequency response in that plot, that's an accurate representation of how the cone will behave (both FR and excursion) in an open baffle.

Then, as you have done, just increase the power until you reach Xmax and that will give you an idea how much power each BOSS driver will need.

Hope this helps.
 
#3,145 · (Edited)
Wow!

I can't believe the difference the BOSS can make to an already good subwoofer system. I have 3 good 15" ported subs that have been pretty well optimized with REW and Audyssey. After quite a few tweaks from the "REW guide", the "Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences" and the "BEQ" thread, I had already obtained a very good system to 95% of the population. I've read/seen enough systems here to know I've only scratched the surface of the truly grand systems possible with not too much money and some DIY skills, but for a guy with a reasonable budget and no building skills, I've done alright. I was perfectly happy with what I had.... until I continued reading AVS. Even with one sub right behind my MLP I really couldn't create the feel of the bass.

My sectional is pretty old and I couldn't see adding anything to the frame (Buttkickers) and I wasn't willing to spend the money on Crowsons or huge subs capable down to single digits. My system is in my living room, so even though my wife is very forgiving of my hobby/sickness, everything has it's limits. After reading many posts here I was willing to take a gamble on the BOSS. I waited for a sale on the JBL subs, already had an amp lying around, and plywood is cheap. With a handful of extra parts I was ready to build and hook up a BOSS mini riser (2 subs for 2 seats).

Building was really the easy part. I was more worried about the wiring and setup. Fortunately for me there are lots of patient knowledgeable people willing to take the time to answer my questions. I probably still have some tweaking to do, but I couldn't be happier, especially for the time and money spent.

After getting it built and setup last weekend, I just wanted to watch a movie or two. After a little more reading and tweaking I went through a lot of demo worthy material tonight and it's hard to believe the difference. The beginning of Blade Runner 2019, the race scene and cataclysm bomb from Ready Player One, most of Mad Max Fury Road, Infinity War, John Wick, and Pacific Rim... These were already terrific with good subs properly EQ'd. But since the subwoofer's ports were only tuned to 18 Hz or so, I wasn't FEELING the bass. With an aggressive house curve I was close on certain scenes, but not quite. With the BOSS, I have been able to back off the MV a bit and still gain a bunch of tactile response. Many of us here read different tweaks that we can do to lift our experience, but I can tell you that a BOSS system (even a mini riser) combined with BEQ can make somewhat modest subs feel like you've spent thousands more! Chasing TR and/or single digit response is very expensive. A BOSS system can get you most of the way the there for less than $300. If I can build it, anyone can. If you're on the fence, re-read the positive comments from the first page or so and consider building you own!
 
#3,146 ·
@Spidacat Thanks for sharing some history of your home theater journey and your most recent BOSS addition. So glad to hear you took the leap of faith to build one! Even more exciting for me is your comment about feeling the bass and how expensive that pursuit can be. And, how the BOSS has allowed you to back off your volume dial on your very capable system and still feel the bass without the higher MV levels. That was the biggest motivator that kept me going as I chased that feeling with the lowest cost possible while delivering an experience that felt natural and commanding even at low volume levels. Enjoy!

With the combination of BEQ and BOSS, you are so right with your comments regarding the two together. They combine nicely to deliver a truly breathtaking experience at home. We watched the new "Godzilla: King of the Monsters" movie last night with BEQ remux and were completely blown away during some of those battle scenes and explosions. Highly recommended with BOSS and BEQ.

It's still unbelievable to me at times to think what has happened in our hobby in the last 12 months. First, the collaborative efforts that brought us the fabulous BEQ a year ago that showed us what's possible at home with ULF and TR with a very low investment. Then, the BOSS came along in February this year to offer a way to affordably deliver that ULF and TR to our experience at home. Fun times to be active in our crazy hobby and I think there's still lots of runway left to explore optimizing the two together.
 
#3,158 ·
Hi, What's the general concensus on what(if anything) buttkicker LFE's might bring to the table beyond what the boss provides? Is it mostly ULF reenforcement < 15hz or ??? I know this is a value judgement, but for those of you who have them, if you had a do-over, would you add them to your Boss again or maybe just add more JBL's etc. THanks!
 
#3,160 ·
Longeze....great question. The BK's wheelhouse is the 10-25Hz band. It will add in that band but won't help much below 10Hz nor above 25Hz or so.

If you don't have a way to boost the 10-25Hz band for your BOSS platform, then the addition of the BK's will add to the experience. If you have a way to boost that 10-25Hz band, I'd try that first to see if you like the result. If you like the additional 10-25Hz TR, then the BK's will allow you to add even more 10-25Hz so you won't have to boost as much. Or, you may like the boosted 10-25Hz plus the additional 10-25Hz the BK's will add. Basically, you'll have 1 more knob to turn as you fine tune the TR to your liking.

@SBuger, @Nalleh, @Chris Young and @imureh have added BK's to their BOSS platforms that I know of. What I'm not sure is if they tried to boost that 10-25Hz signal in addition to the BK additions or if they just added the BK's by themselves with no additional boost or signal shaping. Maybe they can weigh in here with their experiences to help with your decision.

Personally, I'm leaving this band pretty much flat and boosting the sub 10Hz and also boosting the 30Hz and above for music, all using BEQd. That's for my own personal BOSS platforms and each platform will be different so some trial and error will be needed. That's why I recommend trying the signal boost approach first if possible before spending money on the BK's to make sure you like the effect first.

Hope this helps.
 
#3,159 ·
On a similar theme - what about Nearfield vs Boss vs Farfield and sizing thereof ?


I have amassed a few subs that I was going to use for my Boss but I know I am thinking I might prefer them for Farfields or Nearfields.


So I have 3 x 15's with shaker potential approx 1.3 times the JBL,
8 x 6" Pioneer drivers from SW-200 subs that have no surround so they have massive extension and go 'harder' than any of my other 10/12" subs from Mission/Sony/Mordaunt Short etc
2 x 12" and 3 x 10" drivers with 1/2 the shaker of the JBL.


2 of the Pioneer subs (with 2 drivers each) are currently behind my couch and I like what they give and not sure I want anymore coming from behind - I think I would prefer more thump from the front. Plus theres not a lot of room so 15's won't fit.


I am leaning towards using my 2 biggest 15s as farfields. This leaves my Boss open to using 1 15 and either 4 or 5 of my 10/12s or the 8 6" pioneers. Unfortunately I don't have TS Parameters for the pioneers and they are not available from Pioneer :(


So for those that have experience - is more smaller subs better in a boss than a few large ones or doesn't it make any difference ?



With 3 15's farfields (I already have one setup) could I get away with smaller nearfields and smaller Boss ?


Any thoughts ?



 
#3,161 ·
niterida....the T/S parameters will definitely be needed to determine if the bigger or smaller drivers would be better on the BOSS platform....it's all about Xmax and Mms along with modeling each driver in WinISD to determine the best power and FR. Without the T/S parameters it will just be a guess as to which would be better.

Same with the FF and NF woofers....the T/S parameters would be needed to model those drivers to see how much SPL they would create and the FR in the boxes they will be mounted.

Probably not the answer you were hoping for but without the T/S parameters for each driver and knowing what cabinet they will be in, it would be a guess. With the T/S parameters, the model will point to the best use of each subwoofer in each application....NF, VNF and BOSS.

Having said that, my "guess" would be to continue using the Pioneer subs behind you for VNF since you like those so much already. Then use the 15" drivers for far field....when in doubt, there's no replacement for displacement when talking about SPL, so my guess would be the 15's will do fine for FF duty. For the BOSS platform, my guess would be the 10/12" subs would do better than the 6" subs but I could be totally wrong depending on what the T/S parameters are.

Hope some of this feedback helps.
 
#3,165 ·
I thought my theater was done and then I found this thread and can't wait to add another element into the mix. Huge thanks to trhought for sharing this innovation with AVS.

I just placed my order for five JBL CS1214s and will be picking up my plywood and ordering isos etc as recommended in the thread. I'm a little lost on some of the hardware and the wiring.

I currently have a Denon X4300H and an audiosource AD1002 that power a Dolby Atmos 7.4.2 system. I have two SVS SB12-NSD subwoofers. have a back row of three seats on a riser and a front row of two seats (carpet with concrete subfloor). I plan on building two mini risers, one for each row, with one JBL for each seat.

1) How does the LFE signal get from my AVR to the JBLs? My dual subs are currently running off the LFE outputs from the AVR, although I'm thinking of going wireless for easier sub placement.

2) Any amplifier recommendations to drive these? Where in the chain is the amplifier placed.

3) Are the JBLS wired in series or parallel? Do all five JBLs connect together in my application or are the two rows treated separately? Could anyone point me to wiring diagrams that show two rows wired?

Sorry if these questions have been asked and answered. I had a hard time finding what I needed. Thanks for any and all help!

Ray
 
#3,168 ·
Ray....welcome aboard! Great questions....for your 5 drivers, I would recommend the Behringer NX3000D. This will provide 2 channels of amplification, one channel for your front row with 2 JBL's wired in series for 8 ohms load and the other channel for your back row 3 JBL's wired in series for 12 ohms. This will provide adequate power for all 5 JBL's while also allowing the amplifier to run cooler and more balanced with the lower current draw (higher impedance).

For the signal, just get an RCA Y-connector to split one of your sub-out signals from your X4300H and set the LPF for LFE in your AVR to 80Hz if it's not set there already. Then just run that signal to your BOSS amplifier (NX3000D if that's what you decide) and use the DSP features in the Behringer to shape the signal and set the power limits for both the front row and the back row accordingly.

Once you get everything setup, don't be afraid to try different DSP settings on the Behringer to adjust the TR to get it dialed in to how you like it.

As always, as your design comes into focus and you have any questions, just let us know and we'll help accordingly.

Welcome aboard!
 
#3,170 ·
Another option that I'd highly recommend is that instead of getting the Y splitter is to get a miniDSP 2x4 HD. It's the best $200 you can spend if you want bass and TR. It takes the outputs from your AV and you plug your subs/amps into it. It'll give you the extra output for you BOSS amp and will also allow you to start doing BEQ for movies. BOSS and BEQ pretty much go hand in hand since it really unlocks the power of BOSS.
 
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