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post #1231 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I have never built speaker or sub before, what kind of spade terminal wire connector are you guys using to connect all the jbls together? and where to get them? I will need to wire four 4ohm jbls to get 4ohm load out of them, so a combination of series and parallel wirings. What I am trying to find out is the best way to connect the 2 positive together and then the two negative together to feed them to the Behringer NX3000D amp. Also for the connection between the amp and the jbls, do you guys just bare wire connect on the jbl side? I bought a 50ft speakon cable and am planning to cut it into half and use each half for each of the 2 platforms I am building. If you can share pictures of your connections, that would be helpful. I guess I am looking for suggestions for the cleanest way to connect four 4 ohm jbls to yield a total of 4ohm impedance for the Behringer amp. Thanks.
For connecting to the JBLs themselves I use this type of connector.. There's 2 different sizes on the JBLs, I don't have the exact ones off the top of my head and I'm at work. The best place locally I've found to get them is an autoparts store, O'Reilly here. They surprisingly have a large selection of connectors. HomeDepo carries the larger size but not the smaller one.

If you need to splice to wires together I'd use the electrical twist caps.
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post #1232 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post

As far as the other tuning goes for levels and whatnot, that's been pretty simple too actually and just adjusting it/each component by the seat of my pants subjectively. From a lot of my posts, you probably know just how found I am of my VNF 18's behind me. I still am for a lot of reasons and I use them as my main base TR component and get just as much out of them as I possibly can without overly pushing them (and they can really bring the ULF TR). I then have just been slowing adding in TR components one at a time and adjusting the levels on them by feel alone. I'm actually running the levels on the BOSS, the MAs and the BKs at very low levels of each, as they combine really well together. Example, I could turn the BOSS up more and the MAs way down or off to get the same amount of TR intensity, but have chose too reduce both of them to get about the same amount combined as I would get from only running one of them at a higher intensity if that makes sense. The TR that each give at a lower levels when combined to be what one might be on its own at a higher level, feels better to me this way. More aggression and texture might be one way of describing it, getting the best feel that each component has to offer. Then add in the BKs at really low levels as well for final touches, making it feel even better and a little more over the top. I may mess with this some more with maybe running my VNFs lower and the BOSS + MAs + BKs higher in level to see what that feels like as well, but ATM, I cant imagine it delivering much better adjusted differently. We'll see. This may have to be something I mess with over time if I feel like it. But for now, this seems to be the ticket for getting what I want out of the system and working well.

I have no idea what my VS readings will look like and almost don't even care LOL, as its feeling pretty amazing to me right now and what is most important to me. I definitely want to run some though when I get a chance just to see. They may look real similar to what I had before (or not), but if so, that's fine too. What I experienced today is that best my systems TR has ever felt before in this room though, which makes me super happy ATM
Ok so here is a question for you. Say you turn off NF and only use BOSS with other FF subs, what would you be missing? No BK,MO. Just BOSS + FF subs. What would you be missing? The reason I ask this question is to understand what you think of BOSS as to what it brings and also what NF brings that BOSS doesn't.


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Ah man, you would have to go and say that now wouldn't you!!?? If I feel like I'm setting too high once I get to a point to start messing with bringing my screen up a little to match a little better, I might just get the chance to see how the mini Riser feels LOL Even though it would only bring me down about 2.5" or so, because I need at least 3.5" clearance with the drivers face down in the mini version. But every little bit helps if I end up feeling 6" is too high at some point. I really do like the 6" riser though, its kinda cool I think since I've never had a riser before LOL

Oh yeah, I agree with Tony, your FR looks amazing BTW!!
Thx. BTW, this FR is after room correction but yeah Main+S dialed in nicely. Honestly, you won't be saving a lot of height. I ended up being 4.75" inches higher all together with Mini Riser. With 4 sheets + ISO + another small .5" sheet under ISO got me to 4.75". YMMV as it depends on how much of clearance you'd need based on the seats you have. But, sitting 4.75" higher puts my eye sight just about 5" higher. Based on my calculation, my eyes are 42" above the ground and the screen center is 37.5 above the ground. This means that I'm 4.5" higher than the center point of screen (2.35 Aspect Ratio). So far I'm liking the effect of being higher than the center of screen. If you think about it, most of movie scenes have camera spanning from top to bottom instead of bottom to top. Being higher makes me feel like I'm almost jumping inside the screen. Feet do kinda get in the way but not so much.
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post #1233 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 11:42 AM
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Here is what I did to keep the seat in place. Overall platform size is 33-3/4" x 25-7/8". Primed and sealed and getting ready to paint black. I could have got the speaker more centered now that I think about it but hope this won't be much of an issue.
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post #1234 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Here is what I did to keep the seat in place. Overall platform size is 33-3/4" x 25-7/8". Primed and sealed and getting ready to paint black. I could have got the speaker more centered now that I think about it but hope this won't be much of an issue.
White actually looks nice. Are the four recessed holes for the legs of your seat?
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post #1235 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I have only experienced VNF in a few theaters in the area and I like it, but it does eat up some floor space. What I would like to do is get some nice theater chairs that I see are on sale locally and then build for them. If I could talk the wife into it since it is for the basement, I could build the big riser now as well and put isolators under it. I just need to make so I could move it if I wanted to put carpet under it maybe.

By the way is your room soundproofed in any way?
If you don't have the chairs bought yet, that's even better. You can make an informed decision about the chairs ahead of time instead of trying to shoe-horn the BOSS JBL's and VNF's afterwards...lol.

Big risers get heavy fast but with enough hands they can be moved. I can barely push mine across the floor and it's rather large.....7'x12' and 12" tall....made from all 2x12's and 3/4 plywood on the top. It's doable with one person but much easier with a second hand for sure.

Regarding my room, no soundproofing in the sense of today's best practices of using double drywall with GG and hat channel. Back when I built the theater in 1998, I'm not even sure those techniques were around at that time....lol. Our theater uses staggered walls and ceilings instead and I'm on concrete in a basement with concrete walls behind two of the double staggered walls. It's still rather leaky as none of the penetrations into the room are backed by boxes nor do either of my 2 doors have any gaskets or jamb sealing mechanisms.

Hope this helps.
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post #1236 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
Here is what I did to keep the seat in place. Overall platform size is 33-3/4" x 25-7/8". Primed and sealed and getting ready to paint black. I could have got the speaker more centered now that I think about it but hope this won't be much of an issue.
brazensol....looks great. Those should hold the chairs in place...lol.

Can't wait to see them setup in your beautiful theater after the final color coat. Not sure what you have for carpet, but if it's thick, you may need the furniture sliders or wood spacers underneath the isolators to get the prescribed 1" gap between the bottom of the platform and the carpet.

You won't believe what the BOSS is going to bring to your theater experience....won't be long now!
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post #1237 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Still no REW for me, I'm still rockin' the omnimic like it's 2012. Eventually I'll convert though...
You can use the omnimic with REW, Ive never used one but from what I understand if you keep the sweeps short to 128k it will work. Plus you get a reliable signal generator.

I received my drivers, work is in the way of getting it done. Hope to have time in a week or two unless I get a bug and leave work early, which does happen occasionally.
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post #1238 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 02:25 PM
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Just a heads up for you guys cutting out circles. Rockler has their circle jig for routers on sale for $30 right now. It's money well spent. I did all 8 of my holes on Saturday in about 45 minutes. Probably at least half that time was spent laying them out and double checking measurements. I also had to swap bits in the middle of it due to not being careful and breaking the cutting tip on the first one.
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post #1239 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
White actually looks nice. Are the four recessed holes for the legs of your seat?
The white is just B-I-N primer/sealer. White would stick out like a sore thumb in my theater so it has to be black. I suppose dark red would work too but I don't have any on hand but I do have lots of black! The rubber(y) feet on the chair bottom fits into these. I screwed and glued these in but I will only glue in the two additional ones I have yet to install that support the storage compartment. Should I need to raise the seat a bit more I can just put some spacers in the holes for the feet to rest on. I may need to do this as part of the seat structure gets quite close to the top of the magnet. I had my son sit in the seat but he is 155 pounds and I'm 190 so I may need a little more clearance.
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post #1240 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
brazensol....looks great. Those should hold the chairs in place...lol.

Can't wait to see them setup in your beautiful theater after the final color coat. Not sure what you have for carpet, but if it's thick, you may need the furniture sliders or wood spacers underneath the isolators to get the prescribed 1" gap between the bottom of the platform and the carpet.

You won't believe what the BOSS is going to bring to your theater experience....won't be long now!
The hard part is yet to come - hooking these up to my system. I'm a bit out of my element with DSP functions. Plus I need to find a solution to provide control for each seat (most likely go with the multi-channel DSP that was mentioned earlier in the thread). I currently have a pair of Behringer Nu6000DSP amps for my subs and I am only using 3 of the 4 channels at the moment and I was looking at the manual to see how to get 80 watts max. out of the 4th channel so I can take my BOSS for a test ride later this week. I have 2 more 18" subs to build so I will probably need an additional amp. I like the look to the black Behringer amps so much more than the silver ones!

Wished I had more time to learn how to use REW because there is nobody near me who calibrates projectors or sound systems and I'm just not sure it would be worth the money to fly someone up here to do it for me.

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post #1241 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by brazensol View Post
The hard part is yet to come - hooking these up to my system. I'm a bit out of my element with DSP functions. Plus I need to find a solution to provide control for each seat (most likely go with the multi-channel DSP that was mentioned earlier in the thread). I currently have a pair of Behringer Nu6000DSP amps for my subs and I am only using 3 of the 4 channels at the moment and I was looking at the manual to see how to get 80 watts max. out of the 4th channel so I can take my BOSS for a test ride later this week. I have 2 more 18" subs to build so I will probably need an additional amp. I like the look to the black Behringer amps so much more than the silver ones!

Wished I had more time to learn how to use REW because there is nobody near me who calibrates projectors or sound systems and I'm just not sure it would be worth the money to fly someone up here to do it for me.
If I were you, I'd make learning REW higher priority over building more subs. You don't need Audio calbrator. Video yes but not Audio. For video, you need to have good sensor that goes into 10k but with audio, you need REW and a mic and knowledge. Plus audio is very subjective. Do you think any professional calibrated can satisfy us? We all spent/spend a lot of time tuning our system. A more complexity to handle for a calibrator. Think about what it would take to satisfy SBuger Audio System? He knows precisely how he wants his system and no calibrator can do that for him but himself. Same with Carp and me and many others.
Head over to REW thread, download his guide. It's very detailed and easy. Then start using rew and post question on thread if you need to know more. AustinJerry guide is very well written and thorough.

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post #1242 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
If I were you, I'd make learning REW higher priority over building more subs. You don't need Audio calbrator. Video yes but not Audio. For video, you need to have good sensor that goes into 10k but with audio, you need REW and a mic and knowledge. Plus audio is very subjective. Do you think any professional calibrated can satisfy us? We all spent/spend a lot of time tuning our system. A more complexity to handle for a calibrator. Think about what it would take to satisfy SBuger Audio System? He knows precisely how he wants his system and no calibrator can do that for him but himself. Same with Carp and me and many others.
Head over to REW thread, download his guide. It's very detailed and easy. Then start using rew and post question on thread if you need to know more. AustinJerry guide is very well written and thorough.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have to give it a shot.
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post #1243 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 07:39 PM
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Anybody noticed their platform trying to migrate to other parts of the theater?

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post #1244 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 07:55 PM
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Guys, is everyone using BOSS Inverted? My main subs are inverted to begin with to get better FR with Main and based on my testing back and forth, I notice that BOSS seems to be better with it as Normal. Or the general guideline is that BOSS should always be inverted?
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Guys, is everyone using BOSS Inverted? My main subs are inverted to begin with to get better FR with Main and based on my testing back and forth, I notice that BOSS seems to be better with it as Normal. Or the general guideline is that BOSS should always be inverted?
The platform will move opposite the drivers because the drivers are pushing off of the platform. This is why most people will prefer the drivers to move down with a positive signal, so that the platform moves up with a positive signal.
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post #1246 of 2919 Old 04-08-2019, 10:17 PM
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Ok so here is a question for you. Say you turn off NF and only use BOSS with other FF subs, what would you be missing? No BK,MO. Just BOSS + FF subs. What would you be missing? The reason I ask this question is to understand what you think of BOSS as to what it brings and also what NF brings that BOSS doesn't.
Good questions! First, I think I'm just a VNF sub lover through and through and have been ever since I first tried it and started messing with it in different ways about 4 years ago with my Rythmik FV15HP and JTR cap. It just shocked the hell out of me just how much more it delivered in that area that I craved more of and had been chasing and trying to get with FF subs alone and at WAY too loud of listening levels. Because the louder you can stand to listen, the harder the subs are gonna bring it not matter where they are located.

So when I tried it, I was like "Oh hell yeah, this is more like it!!! " and felt like I had hit the HT bass jackpot! I wanted 'FEEL' and tons of it without having to wreck havoc on my ears with super high SPLs to get it (and still not feel like enough). And not just Tactile Shake Feel. In fact I don't even know that I really new what TR stood for and really meant and what it was really capable of creating back then. I just new I wanted to feel it within my body, not just having the seats shake like crazy. That's cool too, but too much of this shaking without a certain feeling of impact to go along with it can feel lopsided or out of balance. Yes, there is such a thing as too much shake, at least at certain frequencies if the feeling of raw bass aggression that you can feel within the body doesn't accompany it, at least a fair amount of it. This is what I feel VNFs positioned and ran a certain way just really bring it home, at least for me in my current setup and especially my last. My old couch in my previous setup on concrete was made for VNF subs (and BKs as well, but that's another story).

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I just feel that the VNFs bring it in ways where ALL other TR components fall short (not that they don't kick ass in their own way too, they do). And that is bring on a certain feel of bass violence beyond just the TR/shake part of it, if turned up enough and mixed in with the FFs and NFs well (and just FYI, NF is NOT VNF (1-3" away) IME, no where near the same actually). VNFs do have their shortcomings for sure compared to NF or FF though and fullness and sound is one of them, like I think you've already realized and discussed some before. But, what it does do, it does so damn well and NF or FF can't even begin to match it. So one just has to be smart enough and or realize at some point, that VNF is probably not going to work all by itself or the bass experience is still gonna feel lopsided in a way and fall short. Like WAY too much feel without enough fullness and sound of bass (sounds too thin, and can even feel too thin in ways), where NF and or FF is needed to make up this difference and where they excel IME. So, best of both worlds type of thing by running FF and or NF in addition to the VNFs. This just has to be messed with enough to find the right balance for ones tastes, and could vary a lot depending on many factors, starting with FR of the VNF as well as seating type, if reclined and at what angle, or not reclined at all. It all can have a huge effect on just how much you feel from the VNF. Also non localization with VNfs is important too and needs to be delt with (there are ways) if it becomes a problem.

But once this is worked out, IMO and E it can be amazing and its something I never want to be without. Not even with Crowson MAs or BK LFEs or even a BOSS in the mix. Or even with all three of those combined in place of VNF. They all have their place and play a vital roll IMHO.

IME over the years, VNF just brings it in a way that MAs, BKs or even the BOSS alone cant replicate. And that is, in addition to the TR/shake, the aggressive impact that is brought on by PV (particle velocity) from a driver and or port (if ported) being positioned so close behind you. I'm in love with that feeling and just does it for me big time. That is, if I have things dialed in well and where they need to be to get the most out of it without being distracting. There is a trick to it I think and depends on a lot of factors that I mentioned up above. But once you can tap into that with the VNFs, I wouldn't trade it for the MAs, BKs or BOSS if I had to make a choice. But, I'm so glad I don't have too, because these bring it in ways that's hard for the VNFs to do as well. That said, I do still prefer my VNFs TR across the bass frequencies more than all these other TR devices in a lot of ways, including deep into the ULF frequencies to 10hz and a little below (with an LS'd capable sealed sub anyway). It just feels a little more natural, fuller and realistic to me (at least in my system) and is why I run them as hard as I reasonably can in my system. I just love what they can do and are capable of and have felt this way all these years now.

That said though, I LOVE all these other TR components too!! All of them ...MAs, BKs and most recently the BOSS. Damn, they are so good in their own way, and the BOSS seems to be a combo of them in a great kind of way, which is way cool!! Even though none of them can actually bring the impact from PV from a sub close behind (although they can trick you into making you believe they can), they are awesome and combine amazingly well with the VNF subs, making it feel like your bass is just off the chain insane in ways the subs (even when right behind you) cant seem to do by themselves to the same degree. So for me, it always comes back to needing/wanting them ALL working together as one as an unstoppable synergistic force that can truly transform the overall HT bass experience on these movie soundtracks. At least it does for me and wouldn't be possible without all of them contributing in their own special way.

So, I know that was a long answer and may sound a bit over the top and maybe even crazy in ways, but it's how I feel about it and the only way I know how to explain it. Hopefully that all at least made some sense and answers your questions about it.

Tim, sorry to turn this into such big VNF post in your BOSS thread, but felt I needed to say why I felt the way I do about it in comparison with the BOSS and other TR devices with the question that was asked.

Nothing wrong with FF only and BOSS at all, it can and does kick ass in a lot of ways, I just prefer the VNFs in the mix as well and have felt this way for years with tons of experimenting. I know Tim and even a few others I think, don't share my thoughts on this and that's fine, we all prefer and experience things differently, as well as how we go about integrating and setting things up differently. That's cool, we cant all feel and like the exact same things.


Quote:
Thx. BTW, this FR is after room correction but yeah Main+S dialed in nicely. Honestly, you won't be saving a lot of height. I ended up being 4.75" inches higher all together with Mini Riser. With 4 sheets + ISO + another small .5" sheet under ISO got me to 4.75". YMMV as it depends on how much of clearance you'd need based on the seats you have. But, sitting 4.75" higher puts my eye sight just about 5" higher. Based on my calculation, my eyes are 42" above the ground and the screen center is 37.5 above the ground. This means that I'm 4.5" higher than the center point of screen (2.35 Aspect Ratio). So far I'm liking the effect of being higher than the center of screen. If you think about it, most of movie scenes have camera spanning from top to bottom instead of bottom to top. Being higher makes me feel like I'm almost jumping inside the screen. Feet do kinda get in the way but not so much.
Good point here and cool to hear your liking being a little higher!!

Also, about your question if most are running the BOSS inverted. I think most are and Aron gave a great answer to why. I know I am running it inverted phase and makes a HUGE difference. Night a day diff in the way the BOSS combines with the subs TR. Not inverted cancels out the TR big time, especially down low in the ULF range, but inverted combines great and feels like it should.

Without the subs on, I didn't think the BOSS on its own felt a whole lot different. Better inverted vs not inverted, but still not a huge diff. YMMV on this last one without the subs on and BOSS only though.
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post #1247 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 12:01 AM
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Hey,

Beautiful theater you have! I seen pics in the BOSS thread. Just curious what kind of speakers are your LCR? Also, on your BOSS platform is that a steel brace going along the back edge?

Thank you

Thank you for the compliments!
my LCRs are B & w ct 7.3
https://www.bowerswilkins.com/custom...-theater/ct700

on my BOss platform ,I reinforced for rigidity with aluminum tubes and gavanized steel angles.

have a good day
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post #1248 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 12:34 AM
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Build porn time. I got everything cut and the frame put together over the weekend. Tonight I got everything put together but I haven't gotten to try it out yet. I can't find where I put the stupid wiring caps and I realized that after the stores had closed. So I'll have to finish the wiring and give it its first run tomorrow.

Right off the bad through I like it because it raised me up about 3 inches. It's giving a much nicer viewing angle to the TV. Since I bought the 85" I thought I was looking up a little bit too much. This angle is feeling a little more immersive. I'm also feeling a bit more from my subs which was a bonus I was hoping for. Right after I put the couch back together I played the demo scene from Art of Flight and Pulse server room and I was feeling both of them in my butt more than before. So I'm optimistic about getting the rest fired up.

Only negative I have right now is also with the height. It's a hair too high for my dog now. She's almost 13 and hips are getting arthritic. She doesn't jump like she used to. I'm going to have to build a stair for her.

Plywood cut and with the paint drying:


The frame assembled. I beefed it up a bit from the initially drawings and then I had an extra 6' 1"x4" so I added it into the mix too.


After attaching the plywood to the frame. It's nice and solid. It's actually a bit better than I expected. With it on the isolators I was walking around on it with no flex or issues.


Standing up to install the subs


Putting the couch back together on top of it. I almost got scared at first that I messed up the calculations due to not fully accounting for the size of the cleats but it ended up fitting perfectly.


Couch back together.


I can't wait to finish the wiring and get it plugged in tomorrow.
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post #1249 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 01:53 AM
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great job !!
the platform is impressive!
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post #1250 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 02:28 AM
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WOW, @DesertDog , that looks absolutely positively awsome !!! Now THAT is a plattform i can dig Can’t wait to hear your impressions

I really envy you that awsome couch with all that space under, talk about a stealth setup

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #1251 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by harrisu View Post
Guys, is everyone using BOSS Inverted? My main subs are inverted to begin with to get better FR with Main and based on my testing back and forth, I notice that BOSS seems to be better with it as Normal. Or the general guideline is that BOSS should always be inverted?
harrisu.....Thanks....good question. The guidelines in post 29 are general and apply to most cases. But, don't be afraid to try both in-phase and out-of-phase as mentioned in post 29 to see which one feels better for your setup. You may just find, that doing the opposite for your setup will be better depending on your room, flooring, carpet, padding, etc.

Hope this helps.
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post #1252 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Anybody noticed their platform trying to migrate to other parts of the theater?
brazensol.....lol....good question after I thought about it some more. Perhaps if someone is using furniture sliders underneath their isolators and those furniture sliders are on hardwood, there's definitely a possibility of the platform migrating across the floor. I think this would be a special case though.

If you have carpet and or carpet padding as flooring, I don't think this will be a concern.

Hope this helps.
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post #1253 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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The hard part is yet to come - hooking these up to my system. I'm a bit out of my element with DSP functions. Plus I need to find a solution to provide control for each seat (most likely go with the multi-channel DSP that was mentioned earlier in the thread). I currently have a pair of Behringer Nu6000DSP amps for my subs and I am only using 3 of the 4 channels at the moment and I was looking at the manual to see how to get 80 watts max. out of the 4th channel so I can take my BOSS for a test ride later this week. I have 2 more 18" subs to build so I will probably need an additional amp. I like the look to the black Behringer amps so much more than the silver ones!

Wished I had more time to learn how to use REW because there is nobody near me who calibrates projectors or sound systems and I'm just not sure it would be worth the money to fly someone up here to do it for me.
Hey brazensol......just keep your BOSS setup very simple to get everything setup for the first time. Don't over-complicate it. The BOSS is all about simplicity. As you start adding your FF or VNF subs to the mix, you'll definitely want to learn REW to get those setup properly in your room. But, for the BOSS and it's relatively low SPL, it's primarily a TR device and it's setup if rather simple as a result.

For your first setup, I would recommend wiring all 6 of your BOSS platforms in series/parallel arrangement to get 6 ohms. Then wire that one channel to the extra channel you have available on your 6000. That will easily provide 80 watts to each of the 6 JBL's and allow you to experience the BOSS performance in each of the 6 chairs. Just follow the guidelines in post 29 for initial setup and enjoy your newfound ULF and TR in your theater.

Then, if you want to get fancy down the road and have a custom BOSS experience for each chair, just remember it will cost more money to do so.....meaning you will likely need separate amplifier channels for each chair and a way to control the signal to each of those separate amplifer channels (from simple volume control for each of those amp channels to full blown DSP control of each of those amp channels). The more customizing you want to do for each chair, the more it will cost.

If you need any help with speaker wiring or any other basic BOSS setup questions, as always, just ask.

Hope this helps.
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post #1254 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Good questions! First, I think I'm just a VNF sub lover through and through and have been ever since I first tried it and started messing with it in different ways about 4 years ago with my Rythmik FV15HP and JTR cap. It just shocked the hell out of me just how much more it delivered in that area that I craved more of and had been chasing and trying to get with FF subs alone and at WAY too loud of listening levels. Because the louder you can stand to listen, the harder the subs are gonna bring it not matter where they are located.

So when I tried it, I was like "Oh hell yeah, this is more like it!!! " and felt like I had hit the HT bass jackpot! I wanted 'FEEL' and tons of it without having to wreck havoc on my ears with super high SPLs to get it (and still not feel like enough). And not just Tactile Shake Feel. In fact I don't even know that I really new what TR stood for and really meant and what it was really capable of creating back then. I just new I wanted to feel it within my body, not just having the seats shake like crazy. That's cool too, but too much of this shaking without a certain feeling of impact to go along with it can feel lopsided or out of balance. Yes, there is such a thing as too much shake, at least at certain frequencies if the feeling of raw bass aggression that you can feel within the body doesn't accompany it, at least a fair amount of it. This is what I feel VNFs positioned and ran a certain way just really bring it home, at least for me in my current setup and especially my last. My old couch in my previous setup on concrete was made for VNF subs (and BKs as well, but that's another story).

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I just feel that the VNFs bring it in ways where ALL other TR components fall short (not that they don't kick ass in their own way too, they do). And that is bring on a certain feel of bass violence beyond just the TR/shake part of it, if turned up enough and mixed in with the FFs and NFs well (and just FYI, NF is NOT VNF (1-3" away) IME, no where near the same actually). VNFs do have their shortcomings for sure compared to NF or FF though and fullness and sound is one of them, like I think you've already realized and discussed some before. But, what it does do, it does so damn well and NF or FF can't even begin to match it. So one just has to be smart enough and or realize at some point, that VNF is probably not going to work all by itself or the bass experience is still gonna feel lopsided in a way and fall short. Like WAY too much feel without enough fullness and sound of bass (sounds too thin, and can even feel too thin in ways), where NF and or FF is needed to make up this difference and where they excel IME. So, best of both worlds type of thing by running FF and or NF in addition to the VNFs. This just has to be messed with enough to find the right balance for ones tastes, and could vary a lot depending on many factors, starting with FR of the VNF as well as seating type, if reclined and at what angle, or not reclined at all. It all can have a huge effect on just how much you feel from the VNF. Also non localization with VNfs is important too and needs to be delt with (there are ways) if it becomes a problem.

But once this is worked out, IMO and E it can be amazing and its something I never want to be without. Not even with Crowson MAs or BK LFEs or even a BOSS in the mix. Or even with all three of those combined in place of VNF. They all have their place and play a vital roll IMHO.

IME over the years, VNF just brings it in a way that MAs, BKs or even the BOSS alone cant replicate. And that is, in addition to the TR/shake, the aggressive impact that is brought on by PV (particle velocity) from a driver and or port (if ported) being positioned so close behind you. I'm in love with that feeling and just does it for me big time. That is, if I have things dialed in well and where they need to be to get the most out of it without being distracting. There is a trick to it I think and depends on a lot of factors that I mentioned up above. But once you can tap into that with the VNFs, I wouldn't trade it for the MAs, BKs or BOSS if I had to make a choice. But, I'm so glad I don't have too, because these bring it in ways that's hard for the VNFs to do as well. That said, I do still prefer my VNFs TR across the bass frequencies more than all these other TR devices in a lot of ways, including deep into the ULF frequencies to 10hz and a little below (with an LS'd capable sealed sub anyway). It just feels a little more natural, fuller and realistic to me (at least in my system) and is why I run them as hard as I reasonably can in my system. I just love what they can do and are capable of and have felt this way all these years now.

That said though, I LOVE all these other TR components too!! All of them ...MAs, BKs and most recently the BOSS. Damn, they are so good in their own way, and the BOSS seems to be a combo of them in a great kind of way, which is way cool!! Even though none of them can actually bring the impact from PV from a sub close behind (although they can trick you into making you believe they can), they are awesome and combine amazingly well with the VNF subs, making it feel like your bass is just off the chain insane in ways the subs (even when right behind you) cant seem to do by themselves to the same degree. So for me, it always comes back to needing/wanting them ALL working together as one as an unstoppable synergistic force that can truly transform the overall HT bass experience on these movie soundtracks. At least it does for me and wouldn't be possible without all of them contributing in their own special way.

So, I know that was a long answer and may sound a bit over the top and maybe even crazy in ways, but it's how I feel about it and the only way I know how to explain it. Hopefully that all at least made some sense and answers your questions about it.

Tim, sorry to turn this into such big VNF post in your BOSS thread, but felt I needed to say why I felt the way I do about it in comparison with the BOSS and other TR devices with the question that was asked.

Nothing wrong with FF only and BOSS at all, it can and does kick ass in a lot of ways, I just prefer the VNFs in the mix as well and have felt this way for years with tons of experimenting. I know Tim and even a few others I think, don't share my thoughts on this and that's fine, we all prefer and experience things differently, as well as how we go about integrating and setting things up differently. That's cool, we cant all feel and like the exact same things.




Good point here and cool to hear your liking being a little higher!!

Also, about your question if most are running the BOSS inverted. I think most are and Aron gave a great answer to why. I know I am running it inverted phase and makes a HUGE difference. Night a day diff in the way the BOSS combines with the subs TR. Not inverted cancels out the TR big time, especially down low in the ULF range, but inverted combines great and feels like it should.

Without the subs on, I didn't think the BOSS on its own felt a whole lot different. Better inverted vs not inverted, but still not a huge diff. YMMV on this last one without the subs on and BOSS only though.
Shelby....great feedback as always. I may have to give VNF a shot again down the road. Perhaps my third row bar build wlll provide a great opportunity to do some more VNF testing for our second row. I'm thinking of using that cabinetry which will be right behind our second row as a stealth housing for a few VNF's.

You're right about the volume levels not as high with VNF....that's also why I liked them initially. I just couldn't get them dialed in perfectly so that it always delivered a natural experience for every MV setting. That was my end goal, simplicity for others using the theater, and I could never get there with VNF.

I'm sure there's more runway for my VNF experimentation but that will have to be down the road unfortunately.

However, I'm eager to learn the tricks of the trade for balancing VNF's and making it feel natural for every MV level.....perhaps a dynamic volume DSP recipe that you found has worked the best. That would be great to know so I can start out further up the learning curve and use best-practices out of the gate for my experiments...lol.
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post #1255 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Build porn time. I got everything cut and the frame put together over the weekend. Tonight I got everything put together but I haven't gotten to try it out yet. I can't find where I put the stupid wiring caps and I realized that after the stores had closed. So I'll have to finish the wiring and give it its first run tomorrow.


I can't wait to finish the wiring and get it plugged in tomorrow.
Wow DesertDog......from your earlier descriptions I thought this was going to be an epic BOSS platform....being rather square, lots of surface area, easier to brace and make rigid and a large couch to hide lots of drivers. The Mega-BOSS or BOSS-sac...or whatever you decide to call it, it's going to be insane!

Then I saw your pictures.....holy crap! You're going to have so much TR! Can't wait to hear your impressions! My only advise at this point would be to keep some scrap lumber laying around and be ready to lift your platform off the ground a bit more to allow those JBL's to breath more than normal since you have so many and pushing so much power underneath it. Perhaps just dialing down the power will be OK also....the concern would be that platform acting as a vented cabinet allowing pressure to build inside of it and producing SPL. Although Shelby doesn't seem to have a problem with his BOSS platform sitting on the floor, so maybe it won't be a problem with your setup either especially if you keep it high passed below 20Hz which I think Shelby is doing?

Congrats! Looks awesome! Can't wait to hear your impressions. Having too much TR can't be a bad thing...right?

Love it!

Edit.....Forgot to comment on your wires.....you may have to fix them to the platform so they don't vibrate and call attention to themselves. I found sticky tack or plumbers putty works great for that purpose or shortening the lead lengths and using traditional wire tacks.....speaking from experience....lol.
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post #1256 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 09:35 AM
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@DesertDog - wow man, that thing is EPIC looking!!! Awesome job, you've got some great building skills there!!! I can only imagine what that's going to feel like!!

I'm with Nalleh, I envy all that space you have under your couch and what better way to take advantage of that!! Thanks for posting the pics and can't wait to hear what you think of it once you get it going!!
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post #1257 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 09:56 AM
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Shelby....great feedback as always. I may have to give VNF a shot again down the road. Perhaps my third row bar build wlll provide a great opportunity to do some more VNF testing for our second row. I'm thinking of using that cabinetry which will be right behind our second row as a stealth housing for a few VNF's.

You're right about the volume levels not as high with VNF....that's also why I liked them initially. I just couldn't get them dialed in perfectly so that it always delivered a natural experience for every MV setting. That was my end goal, simplicity for others using the theater, and I could never get there with VNF.

I'm sure there's more runway for my VNF experimentation but that will have to be down the road unfortunately.

However, I'm eager to learn the tricks of the trade for balancing VNF's and making it feel natural for every MV level.....perhaps a dynamic volume DSP recipe that you found has worked the best. That would be great to know so I can start out further up the learning curve and use best-practices out of the gate for my experiments...lol.
Thanks Tim! Yeah at some point it may be fun for you to mess with VNF again, but sounds like you've got everything you need and want without them in the mix with just the BOSS. In a bar may work well like you were thinking if you do end up trying it.

I can totally understand just wanting simplicity (there is a lot to be said for that) for several reasons though and very cool that it gave you what you wanted (and then some, again for multiple reasons).

Yes dialing in the VNF can be harder to get right than the BOSS for sure. Multiples VNF subs spread out a little behind you on the seats next to the MLP kind of helps with this too, making them a little less distracting if you don't get them just right.

If you ever get to that point of wanting to try it again, we can talk about some of that stuff and a few tricks.

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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Wow DesertDog......from your earlier descriptions I thought this was going to be an epic BOSS platform....being rather square, lots of surface area, easier to brace and make rigid and a large couch to hide lots of drivers. The Mega-BOSS or BOSS-sac...or whatever you decide to call it, it's going to be insane!

Then I saw your pictures.....holy crap! You're going to have so much TR! Can't wait to hear your impressions! My only advise at this point would be to keep some scrap lumber laying around and be ready to lift your platform off the ground a bit more to allow those JBL's to breath more than normal since you have so many and pushing so much power underneath it. Perhaps just dialing down the power will be OK also....the concern would be that platform acting as a vented cabinet allowing pressure to build inside of it and producing SPL. Although Shelby doesn't seem to have a problem with his BOSS platform sitting on the floor, so maybe it won't be a problem with your setup either especially if you keep it high passed below 20Hz which I think Shelby is doing?

Congrats! Looks awesome! Can't wait to hear your impressions. Having too much TR can't be a bad thing...right?

Love it!
Well, the riser is picked back up off the floor now, I ended up liking that better with more testing (didn't know if you caught that or not over the weekend). But yes, I have it low passed (high cutoff) down low and seems to meet my preferences the best in my system and seating, for MOVIES that is. I've got an LPF set at 18hz with a BW 12db/oct slope that fades in out nicely by about 40hz or so on the BOSS. Just as a comparison, I like the Crowson MAs set the same way and the BK LFEs set at 35hz with that same BW 12db/oct slope.
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1400cuft sealed room, suspended floor | SY Triple Black Velvet for Blackout | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | GIK Treatments | Oppo 203 | Epson 5040 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs (4x SI DS4-18s & 2x UM22-18s) | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' 6x JBL12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
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post #1258 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Wow DesertDog......from your earlier descriptions I thought this was going to be an epic BOSS platform....being rather square, lots of surface area, easier to brace and make rigid and a large couch to hide lots of drivers. The Mega-BOSS or BOSS-sac...or whatever you decide to call it, it's going to be insane!

Then I saw your pictures.....holy crap! You're going to have so much TR! Can't wait to hear your impressions! My only advise at this point would be to keep some scrap lumber laying around and be ready to lift your platform off the ground a bit more to allow those JBL's to breath more than normal since you have so many and pushing so much power underneath it. Perhaps just dialing down the power will be OK also....the concern would be that platform acting as a vented cabinet allowing pressure to build inside of it and producing SPL. Although Shelby doesn't seem to have a problem with his BOSS platform sitting on the floor, so maybe it won't be a problem with your setup either especially if you keep it high passed below 20Hz which I think Shelby is doing?

Congrats! Looks awesome! Can't wait to hear your impressions. Having too much TR can't be a bad thing...right?

Love it!

Edit.....Forgot to comment on your wires.....you may have to fix them to the platform so they don't vibrate and call attention to themselves. I found sticky tack or plumbers putty works great for that purpose or shortening the lead lengths and using traditional wire tacks.....speaking from experience....lol.
Thanks!

I already put half inch pieces of plywood that I had as scrap under each of the isolators to raise it up a little off of the carpet to let it breath. I'll see how that goes once I get it running tonight. I can add more if needed.

Thanks for the reminder on the wires. I usually zip tie them tight. I was honestly lazy last night and just left everything loose after wiring each set of 4 together. I'll take care of it when I finish the wiring and know where all of them are going to end up. I think I'm going to make a small box that goes under the middle section with a speakon terminal that everything will attach too. I'm pretty sure I have an extra terminal at home.

Edit: I hadn't thought about a name yet. I'm bad at naming things. I'm sort of liking BOSS-sac though. My friend Kim will love it when I tell her to come sit on my BOSS-sac.
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Last edited by DesertDog; 04-09-2019 at 10:53 AM.
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post #1259 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 10:51 AM
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@DesertDog , That an awesome mini BOSS riser. By the way I am also a BGE XL owner. How do you like the large?
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post #1260 of 2919 Old 04-09-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
@DesertDog , That an awesome mini BOSS riser. By the way I am also a BGE XL owner. How do you like the large?
Thanks

I love the BGE. I've had it about 7 years now and it was a great purchase. Getting the large was a little compromise. At times I wish I had the XL when trying to do a lot at once (usually when I do ribs) but the large was the better move for day to day cooking. I've been tempted to get a small one too to use for thinks like baked potatoes that need a higher temp to use while a slow cook is going or if I'm only making like one burger since it'll heat quicker.

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