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post #121 of 4061 Old 03-04-2019, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I'm going to cannibalize my ib manifold and slap one together. if I can keep it to 7" I'll be ok with it. Hard to tell if this will fit without doing it, trial run shouldn't take but a couple hrs to put together

Long term sag could occur but for what I'm doing he didn't think I'd ever notice.

I found a 12" Dayton HO if need to punt

Looking forward to this!
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post #122 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 10:53 AM
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I found a 12" Dayton HO if need to punt
Those things aren't easy to hide. What'd you do, trip over it?
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post #123 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 12:31 PM
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This is a very interesting thread and I have been wanting to do something like this instead of Butt Kickers and this seems to be a lot cheaper. Right now my room is not finished and had a few questions.

My theater is in my basement and would it help or be ok to not have carpet on the floor? Does having carpet help?

On the bigger riser it looks like you only put two of the isolators on each side. Wouldn't it help to have some in the middle as well?

Did you leave the big riser open on the back side?

I have a 5x150 Marantz amp I am not using and was thinking of using it for this. My thought was to have 2 subs for the front and 3 for the back. What do you think. Would 150 watts be to much?

Thank you,

Doug
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post #124 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ @Ladeback Hey Doug....Thanks for stopping by.

Good Questions....

I don't think it matters much as far as carpet on the floor of the theater. With either BOSS platform, the key is to isolate the entire platform from the floor as much as possible. The carpet probably helps some with the isolation, but the soft rubber (20-40 durometer) between the platform and the floor is what really does the trick. Having said that, I found carpet on the BOSS platform itself definitely helps, especially where the chair/couch legs rest on the platform. I found without carpet, my furniture pieces would move a couple inches after spirited listening sessions.....the carpet helps keep the furniture in place....lol. FWIW, from an acoustics perspective, you probably want something on your theater floor to minimize slap echo....rugs, carpet, etc.

On my big riser BOSS, you are correct, I was only able to get 2 of the rubber isolators under one end of the riser (1 isolator under each corner of the riser farthest away from the columns). 4 isolators (one under each corner of the riser) would have been preferred, but the corners underneath each column couldn't be jacked up because the columns are connected directly to the riser. It would have been major surgery to modify the columns to accommodate the riser being raised 1/2" or so on that side. Plus, I found just getting the one end of the riser lifted off the floor with the rubber isolators delivered the same effects as the front mini-riser which is totally isolated from the floor. This is because my back riser is so stiff (it's constructed of 2x12's with 3/4" plywood on top). It doesn't bend at all. Even at mid-span with people on the platform, I can still fit a finger between the riser and the floor.

The key is to isolate the entire platform as much as possible from the floor. So, the additional isolators at mid-span would only start to couple the platform back to the floor again since I would be filling the air gap that's there today with rubber.....Hope this makes sense. Essentially, the only part of the back riser platform that is touching the floor is the one side of it under the columns...every other part of the bottom of the plaform is in the air.

The big riser is totally open on the bottom and closed all around it's perimeter. You want the bottom of your BOSS risers, to be open so they won't act as cabinets and limit the excursion of the JBL's. You want as much excursion from the JBL's as possible. There's also other advantages to the open bottom (technically called an open baffle)....namely SPL cancellation which makes integration of the BOSS into your existing speaker/sub system a breeze. No need to include the BOSS in your room measurements and having to re-calibrate since there is very little SPL from the BOSS. Just add the BOSS and follow the 80/80/180 or 80/80/0 rules and enjoy.

For power, I would stay close to the 80 watts per driver. So, for your 5x150W Marantz, I would wire the 2 front row JBL's in series for 8 ohms and run the front row on one channel of the Marantz for ~75 watts per JBL. For the back row, I would use just 2 of the JBL's wired in series the same as the front row and use another channel on the Marantz for ~75 watts per JBL. Adding a third JBL to the back row will bump your impedance up to 12 ohms and your Marantz will only provide ~100 watts per channel at 12 ohms. That would only be ~33 watts per JBL....not enough power to get the cone excursion you need for the BOSS to really deliver the smiles.

If you find the 2 JBL's in your back riser isn't enough (I think you will like it a lot), then you could always add 2 more JBL's back there and run those off a third channel of your Marantz.

Hope this helps.
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post #125 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Update to BOSS guidelines in Post 29

Just realized I didn't have details of the 80/80/180 and 80/80/0 rules in the guidelines on Post 29.

Those guidelines have been updated accordingly with these rules.....number 7 in that post.
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post #126 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 05:09 PM
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@LastButNotLeast I've been on a diy testing journey last few years. Um18 pa 460 sho's pierce etc this ended up in another closet somehow.

Well I ended up about 9".Initially I think this will be awesome. Problem is the new puppy chewed my laptop charger cord last week. I cant get in the minidsp and change the delay which is at 0ms . Needs to be at 7ms. I know the high pass is Round 30hz from previous settings. Need to run Rew, charger just shipped so weekend of I'm lucky

I also need the rubber feet for some more TR , it's somewhat rigid at the moment. I'm not noticing any sound from the driver so cancelling out well.
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post #127 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 05:14 PM
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Tight fit!
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post #128 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ Nice work Jeff! Doesn't look like that magnet is protruding out much at all considering its size. Awesome job shoehorning it in there. I'm admiring your carpentry skills...lol.

Can't wait to hear your impressions once you get it dialed in. Did you reverse the power leads to run it out of phase since it's upside down. I found that made a huge difference when setting mine up for the first time.

In fact, once I did that and moved it's signal up to about 60Hz or so (LPF of 80Hz with LR 12dB/octave slope), it sounds very natural even without any delay. Isolators will help a lot too.

Enjoy your new Gorilla Killa BOSS!

I'm sitting here watching Mortal Engines with the family....highly recommend just for the ULF....movie is just OK. But, picture and sound are incredible. Feels so good when sitting on these BOSS's and enjoying the ride...lol.
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post #129 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 07:54 PM
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Tight fit!
Make sure there's still clearance when someone's sitting on the chair (guess how I know that can be a problem ).
Michael
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post #130 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ Holding out on us Michael...gonna spill the beans? 😊
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post #131 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 08:47 PM
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Thanks for answering my questions. I do have a couple 2x100 watt Carver 15cb's. I may use them, because I am not sure I can run the Marantz in series. This could sound be a fun thing to build and the cost not being to bad the wife may approve it.

One more question, I take it you didn't put insulation in the big BOSS riser?

Thanks again.

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post #132 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 08:56 PM
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^^^^ Holding out on us Michael...gonna spill the beans? 😊
No biggie. Just went to a lot of trouble to attach a buttkicker to a chair. Worked fine, looked fine. Unfortunately, once reclined, buttkicker was literally kicking butt.
Michael
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post #133 of 4061 Old 03-05-2019, 09:11 PM
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I think I'm going to say screw it and not have the mini riser(s) stick out in front of the chairs. I recline almost all of the time anyway, and it will be easier to just hide the risers under the chairs. I just don't think I could make it look good with the curved front row, and then there is the whole tripping hazard to think about.

When I have people over for a movie they always recline too.
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post #134 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 02:46 AM
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I left 1" clearance to rock and recline. 4" of magnet out.

It's out of phase but something feels off. I watched a little W of the W and BR2049.Wow was more obvious of the timing off. I'll be unleashing full throttle hopefully Friday

I recline mostly but did think it would be nice to sit without feet dangling occasionally. May have to extend it although being at standing height getting out and in is nice

Center seat on my couch doesnt recline and is fought over who sits there so I may do a pop up foot rest off the riser.

Iso pads arrive tomorrow and charger on Friday, I hope it fits. Everyone says their's is a match but I'm 0-2
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post #135 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
Thanks for answering my questions. I do have a couple 2x100 watt Carver 15cb's. I may use them, because I am not sure I can run the Marantz in series. This could sound be a fun thing to build and the cost not being to bad the wife may approve it.

One more question, I take it you didn't put insulation in the big BOSS riser?

Thanks again.
Hey Doug....yeah, the BOSS with JBL's can't be beat on a dollars/ULF response basis. Certainly makes it easier for WAF, especially when budgets are being watched closely....lol.

If the Marantz is a home theater amp, it's likely 8 ohms per channel nominal....if so, it would be perfect for 2 JBL's in series for each of its channels when used in a BOSS configuration.

Correct on the full size BOSS riser....it doesn't have any pink fluffy underneath it. I thought at first it would need some, but I've found with it being fed these LF and ULF frequencies only, it doesn't need any.

Last edited by trhought; 03-06-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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post #136 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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No biggie. Just went to a lot of trouble to attach a buttkicker to a chair. Worked fine, looked fine. Unfortunately, once reclined, buttkicker was literally kicking butt.
Michael
OUCH! Words of wisdom right there...
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post #137 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I'm going to say screw it and not have the mini riser(s) stick out in front of the chairs. I recline almost all of the time anyway, and it will be easier to just hide the risers under the chairs. I just don't think I could make it look good with the curved front row, and then there is the whole tripping hazard to think about.

When I have people over for a movie they always recline too.
Haha....yeah, at only 1.75" additional height for a mini-riser BOSS no one will even notice the difference when sitting down let alone being reclined, until the ground starts to move beneath them...lol.

I like the footrest for music mostly as I like to sit upright with one foot on the floor and legs crossed....that's my music-listening pose....lol. Like I said earlier, family and friends could probably care less about the footrest.

If one feels a lot of creativity juices flowing, a slide-out platform could probably be retrofitted on the BOSS in the MLP seat without much problem. I'm thinking those computer keyboard pull out trays that fasten underneath desks. One of those could probably be modified to slide on top of the BOSS between the furniture and the BOSS platform...just thinking out loud.
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post #138 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I left 1" clearance to rock and recline. 4" of magnet out.

It's out of phase but something feels off. I watched a little W of the W and BR2049.Wow was more obvious of the timing off. I'll be unleashing full throttle hopefully Friday

I recline mostly but did think it would be nice to sit without feet dangling occasionally. May have to extend it although being at standing height getting out and in is nice

Center seat on my couch doesnt recline and is fought over who sits there so I may do a pop up foot rest off the riser.

Iso pads arrive tomorrow and charger on Friday, I hope it fits. Everyone says their's is a match but I'm 0-2
Jeff....I bet that 18" is going to be awesome once you get it tuned and get those isolators underneath. Maybe the slide out keyboard tray I mentioned above might work for your footrest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fingers crossed on the charge plug fitting properly....the joys of a new puppy in the house!

Maybe the mini-DSP is adding some delay to the mix depending on what else may be happening with the setup of that channel that you're using for the BOSS....will find out soon enough...hopefully Friday.

For my BOSS's, I'm simply running them directly from the LFE of the AVR right to the BOSS amp....no DSP at all....just reversed polarity for the front row mini-riser and using the same polarity for the back row full size riser. Both sound very natural when LPF'd at 80Hz with LR 12db/oct slope.
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post #139 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 10:03 AM
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I tipped the chair over and put a piece of plywood on the bottom and measured. Four braces and rocker to contend with I left just enough space



Great minds think alike, the keyboard is what gave me the thought of the footrest😎

I have 3 subs in the room and 2 minidsp, I like the flexibility they give. My avr wouldn't have a chance pushing this driver, have Ep2500 on it.

I'm also wondering how the iso pads will do on the carpet. Hate to have them dig in too much. I bought extra, have thoughts of doubling them; end of ball to end of ball to add more spring. Sandwiched in some fashion.

More rain this weekend so I may take off. I'm pumped to get it dialed in
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post #140 of 4061 Old 03-06-2019, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I was surprised how little room you have under the chair and how you managed to get that 18" underneath.....an engineering feat in itself...lol.

Ah....yeah looks like the EP2500 has a higher voltage sensitivity than my AMC amp. Your setup is going to be brutal with all that power and excursion!

I found it really doesn't take a lot of rubber underneath for a full size riser like you have, the key is for it to be soft while at the same time not letting anything else on the BOSS platform touch the floor when sitting on it. I would be surprised if the 1.25" high Amazon isolators allow your platform to hit the carpet but I guess it all depends on what type of carpet and padding is there also. Doubling up the isolators with round-to-round contact like you described should definitely help soften the ride even more for experimental reasons. I think you will find just one layer of the hemisphere isolators will be pretty awesome, since they're only 20 durometer.

Enjoy your new ride! Fingers crossed on the power cable!
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post #141 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 12:51 PM
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Just out of curiousity, could you do some Vibsensor measurements and post? You know, like WN0-50hz, Sweep 0-50hz, 6hz sine wave, 15 hz sine wave? Like the ones i used lately. Would be fun to see how it measures
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post #142 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 03:33 PM
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Well my charger came early...NO JOY!
I'm quite bent about it, I'm glad they didn't answer the phone, I was going to show my arse as we say in the south.

If I regain my composure😁 I'll put the pads on later and give a run
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post #143 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Just out of curiousity, could you do some Vibsensor measurements and post? You know, like WN0-50hz, Sweep 0-50hz, 6hz sine wave, 15 hz sine wave? Like the ones i used lately. Would be fun to see how it measures
Nalleh....yeah, I can post some VS results. By chance, can you provide me the following. This will help eliminate some of the setup and signal variables that we know VS measurements are prone to.

1. Source for the white noise 0-50Hz
2. Source for the sweep 0-50Hz
3. Source for the 6Hz sine wave
4. Source for the 15Hz sine wave
6. Where to place the phone on the platform or couch cushion or somewhere else on the chair
7. What size rice bag to use on top of the phone
8. Any other special setup items I need to pay attention to minimize comparative differences?

If I don't have all the tools above, could we possibly agree to do the Edge of Tomorrow intro scene if that would help get a faster apples to apples comparison on your end and mine.

If we can agree on the Edge of Tomorrow scene, that would make my testing go faster and I could post those results relatively quickly. Just let me know how to place my phone (horizontal face up and charge port facing the screen?, or something else), where to place the phone (on a couch cushion?), what to put on top of it (5 lb bag of rice or something else?). Just trying to control as many variable as possible to attempt an apples to apples comparison...anything else we should pay attention to in the setup?
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post #144 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Well my charger came early...NO JOY!
I'm quite bent about it, I'm glad they didn't answer the phone, I was going to show my arse as we say in the south.

If I regain my composure😁 I'll put the pads on later and give a run
Dang Jeff......I'm feeling for you man....that's a complete bummer. Back in the day, when Radio Shacks still existed, all it would take is one visit to find the end you need and a little wire stripping and soldering and back in business in no time.

What a let down to continue to be handicapped by a charging cable. By chance, is the old cable repairable or is it too far damaged. Perhaps some surgery and solder splicing the good parts of the cable back together and a bit of heat shrink tubing? Just thinking out loud here....
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post #145 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Nalleh....yeah, I can post some VS results. By chance, can you provide me the following. This will help eliminate some of the setup and signal variables that we know VS measurements are prone to.

1. Source for the white noise 0-50Hz
2. Source for the sweep 0-50Hz
3. Source for the 6Hz sine wave
4. Source for the 15Hz sine wave
6. Where to place the phone on the platform or couch cushion or somewhere else on the chair
7. What size rice bag to use on top of the phone
8. Any other special setup items I need to pay attention to minimize comparative differences?

If I don't have all the tools above, could we possibly agree to do the Edge of Tomorrow intro scene if that would help get a faster apples to apples comparison on your end and mine.

If we can agree on the Edge of Tomorrow scene, that would make my testing go faster and I could post those results relatively quickly. Just let me know how to place my phone (horizontal face up and charge port facing the screen?, or something else), where to place the phone (on a couch cushion?), what to put on top of it (5 lb bag of rice or something else?). Just trying to control as many variable as possible to attempt an apples to apples comparison...anything else we should pay attention to in the setup?
Tim, this may help you somewhat. I put together a kind of VibSensor how to and whatnot for the guys over in the subwoofer comparison thread not too long ago that answers some of your questions. Just a bit of a guide and how to get it done with White Noise 0-50hz as well as EOT intro, what rice weight to use etc with a few links to download test files as well. Hope this helps and would love to see the VS graphs as well. Link can be found HERE Kind of a long post but a lot of the info your looking for can be found there.
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1400cuft Sealed Room on Suspended Floor | SY Triple Black Velvet Blackout | GIK Treatments | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.7.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | Epson 5040UB | Eyes 6.5' to 120" 16:9 AT Seymour Screen | Oppo 203 | Xbox 1X | Apple TV4K | 6x 18" Sealed Subs w/3x VNF | Subwoofer Riser w/6x JBL-12s | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | MiniDSP 10x10HD
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post #146 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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@SBuger ....Thanks for the link....gonna check it out!
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post #147 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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BOSS in a long curved front row

So, for those who have a long and/or curved front row and looking for ideas on how to integrate a one-piece BOSS into that configuration.....look no further....member @Chris Young has recently built and posted some pics of his curved BOSS over in his thread....linked below.

Pretty ingenious on the technique he used to get everything to layout correctly and joining the plywood together. Looks like a great start and can't wait to see his finished BOSS pictures and impressions!

See post 50 in Chris's thread below:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...l#post57710980
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Last edited by trhought; 03-08-2019 at 08:37 AM.
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post #148 of 4061 Old 03-07-2019, 11:08 PM
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Yes, @SBuger covered most of the bases in his link, so thanks for the quick guide. I do it pretty much like that. Additional info:

I use MV -20dB as that is the level i normally listen to. Turn off Audyssey and DEQ(or similar depending on AVR brand) to get a flat signal to your "shakers" in this case.
I use a 2lb bag as i struggled to find anything 5lb, but the difference between 2 and 5 is much less than between zero weight and 2 lb(strictly speaking 2.2lb = 1kg).

Before taking screenshot of the results be sure to tap the "tilt" and "vibration" (in that order) button to get additional info from the measurement.
For the 6, 15 and sweep hz i use REW. Just run a normal sweep, no need for more than 0-50hz, but i just run to 60 to get all that VS can measure. And the sine waves from signal generator. I use via HDMI and channel 4(LFE)

Just ask if more is unclear.

PS: EOT is better than nothing
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Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 12xJBL 12" w/6xSLAPS M12 downfiring VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #149 of 4061 Old 03-08-2019, 04:01 AM
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I'm on a mission today to find a cord. I did try to solder initially it did not take and I figured how hard could it be to find one, lol


I did run BR2049 last night. WOW. The iso pads made a huge difference. Full on nutz!! I agree for the cost it's a Home Run.

I lost the other channel on my ep2500. 10 years old so bad timing, guitar center is on the list too.

I would say anyone running NFcould put the pads under their chair and pick up some extra TR
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post #150 of 4061 Old 03-08-2019, 08:21 AM
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Hi There,

I started having a look for speakers....I started down a couple of the JBL models wondering if the S2-1224 was better than the GT5-12 that's the cheapest here, stumbled on to the S3-1224 which looks cool, but noticed how MASSIVE it was and remembered when i looked under my layzboy recliner double sofa that there is a fair bit of mechanism hanging down, limiting the space. Maybe a shallow 12" woofer may be more prudent. Found the WS1200 which the xmax is only 7.65mm vs the S2's 10.25mm.
Wondered the impact of xmax and went looking and COMPLETELY fell down the bass rabbit hole!
The last one on that link is a 12x Infinite baffle sub - 10Hz @ 116db under 700w too!

No idea quite what to buy to have a play though, still it's brightened up a quiet Friday afternoon

Sound - Marantz SR6011 (pre/atmos), Yamaha Z9, Mirage Om-6's, Om-C2's, 6x Om-R2's, 4x Nanosat (atmos), Dual Paradigim Servo 15's
Additional - MiniDSP : DDRC-88a, 2x4HD
Source -Panasonic DP-UB420, Toshiba HD-XE1, Sony SCD-XE620
Vision - Epson TW9400, eecolour Lut Box, 120" Spitfire Acoustically Transparent Screen
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