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post #2131 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 08:38 AM
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Riser? We don't need no stinkin' riser!

With the sub mounted to the back of my chair (see post 2010: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post57990614), I had just placed the isolators on the legs of the chair. Unfortunately, the legs are only about half an inch wide, and the isolators kept sliding out from under the chair. I was about to make a platform when I decided to check the response with the chair on the floor (since that's where it was when I was using the ButtKicker).

It turns out that, with a suspended wood floor, the response is terrific - no riser or isolators needed.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58016872
There's very little transfer to the adjacent (unconnected) seat, which works out well since my wife would rather not be "distracted" by the vibrations. I think it's GREAT!
Still another BOSS option.
Anyone near Philly need a set of eight isolators and furniture sliders?
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #2132 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyoreDK View Post
I finished building the BOSS riser for my back row. Now I just have to wait for more GT-X1200 to get back in stock at end of June
NB: The platform is level. The camera makes it look like it bulges upwards at the middle?


eeyore, really nice work on this platform. But... what really impressed me in these pics was your wall treatments! Do you have a thread about them anywhere? Looks like some custom binary panels, are they "abfusion" absorption/diffusion type? I'd love to read more about these if you have anything posted. (Not to derail this thread too much)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
There are pros and cons to the BK. The 2 things i don’t like about them is they bottom out at about 15 down to 8 hz. Easily fixed woth a negative PEQ. The other is they can make some noise, like if there is a silent part of a movie, but with some LFE sounds. Then you can hear them work.
But the sheer brutality of them and the visceral feeling they can give is unparalleled !


Nalleh, thank you for posting this!! I have been struggling with one of my BK's for a while now, and I think I may have bottomed it out at some point. Now it will occasionally make those "bad sounds" during some program material at higher volumes. I'm hoping it isn't damaged, and maybe I'm just hitting that threshold where it's uncomfortable. I'll try running some PEQ cut through the MiniDSP maybe, and see if it clears it up. Thanks a ton for that tip, I hadn't seen anyone mention that specifically before.
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post #2133 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
It looks like his lower back panel is Velcroed in place. All I had to do was pry up a plastic strip of a row of nails (a very clever arrangement, I must admit). Just tapped everything back down when I was done.
Michael
Yeah...these furniture manufacturer's are pretty clever when it comes to fastening things together. We bought new furniture pieces last summer for the living room and one of the couch pieces arrived pretty badly damaged. We sent some pictures to the furniture company and they gave us a full refund and said we could keep it if we wanted rather than them coming back out to pick it up (it was a big and heavy sleeper sofa and expensive ). In a matter of hours, I had it fully repaired and can't even tell it was damaged. Learned a lot about all the fastening strips, gussets, buttons, screws and whatnot they use....pretty fascinating actually Made a few panels out of masonite using the damaged pieces from the couch as a pattern, ironed out a few wrinkles in the covering materials, straightened a few tufting buttons and nail, fastened everything back together again using the original fasteners...like brand new!
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post #2134 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
With the sub mounted to the back of my chair (see post 2011), I had just placed the isolators on the legs of the chair. Unfortunately, the legs are only about half an inch wide, and the isolators kept sliding out from under the chair. I was about to make a platform when I decided to check the response with the chair on the floor (since that's where it was when I was using the ButtKicker).

It turns out that, with a suspended wood floor, the response is terrific - no riser or isolators needed.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58016872
There's very little transfer to the adjacent (unconnected) seat, which works out well since my wife would rather not be "distracted" by the vibrations. I think it's GREAT!
Still another BOSS option.
Anyone near Philly need a set of eight isolators and furniture sliders?
Michael
That's awesome Michael about your floor bounce and not needing the isolators! Your VS measurements with your BOSS back are very impressive! Great to hear it's working out great for your setup and not too distracting for your wife either.....a win/win!
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post #2135 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post

Nalleh, thank you for posting this!! I have been struggling with one of my BK's for a while now, and I think I may have bottomed it out at some point. Now it will occasionally make those "bad sounds" during some program material at higher volumes. I'm hoping it isn't damaged, and maybe I'm just hitting that threshold where it's uncomfortable. I'll try running some PEQ cut through the MiniDSP maybe, and see if it clears it up. Thanks a ton for that tip, I hadn't seen anyone mention that specifically before.
No worries

Don’t worrie about damaging a BK, they are bulletproof, and i have had mine bottoming out A LOT under testing, they can take it

One more tip: even if they come with a thin rubber pad on each end of the slug inside, i opened them up and mounted a thicker rubber pads. This changed the bottoming out sound from a metallic scary sound, to a much more softer, quieter sound.

Read more here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/29-wh...l#post57078188
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post #2136 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Looks great lizrussspike! Is that the MBQuart DS1-304 also? Looking forward to hearing your impressions once you achieve lift-off with your "Solo BOSS"
@trhought, that is correct, I did get the DS1-304, and will be running it Solo, for now, looking to add a co-pilot DS1-304 down the line! Thanks all for your inspiration and guidance/direction. Espceially @Archaea, who has inspired me thru implementation. Hope to achieve a trial run tonight.
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post #2137 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@trhought, that is correct, I did get the DS1-304, and will be running it Solo, for now, looking to add a co-pilot DS1-304 down the line! Thanks all for your inspiration and guidance/direction. Espceially @Archaea, who has inspired me thru implementation. Hope to achieve a trial run tonight.
Excited to hear you impression on the MB. We need a few different options for "BOSS approved" drivers. Especially as some have pointed out the hardware under the seats can be IN THE WAY!

Casey
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post #2138 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by OJ Bartley View Post
eeyore, really nice work on this platform. But... what really impressed me in these pics was your wall treatments! Do you have a thread about them anywhere? Looks like some custom binary panels, are they "abfusion" absorption/diffusion type? I'd love to read more about these if you have anything posted. (Not to derail this thread too much)
Thanks , I have not had time to do a build thread yet. I had a friend CNC the panels (all 40000+ holes) in 3 mm HDF. The panels are mounted on 100mm absorbing walls with a 200mm airgap behind. The airgap helps with the absorption and is also used to ventilate the cavity behind the absorbing walls and the outer walls of the basement. The picture shows one of the absorbing walls, before acoustical transparent fabric and BAD panels were mounted
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Last edited by eeyoreDK; 05-08-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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post #2139 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
My friend has such a setup for VR racing. He has a tactile transducer on each of the four corners and software that gives each one feedback individually. It’s amazing. If you haven’t heard of such I can get you the name.

MB Quart shallow mount subwoofers. The cheapest I found them was at Sonicelectronix.
No tax, free shipping, and multipack options.

There a 10% off coupon code at the top of the page.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/lp/s...uart%20Shallow
That coupon does not apply to these speakers unfortunately.

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post #2140 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eeyoreDK View Post
Thanks , I have not had time to do a build thread yet. I had a friend CNC the panels (all 40000+ holes) in 3 mm HDF. The panels are mounted on 100mm absorbing walls with a 200mm airgap behind. The airgap helps with the absorption and is also used to ventilate the cavity behind the absorbing walls and the outer walls of the basement.

Awesome, I'd love to see more, please do make a thread when you can. I won't go any farther off topic in this thread, but I want to hear your before and after listening impressions!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
No worries

Don’t worrie about damaging a BK, they are bulletproof, and i have had mine bottoming out A LOT under testing, they can take it

One more tip: even if they come with a thin rubber pad on each end of the slug inside, i opened them up and mounted a thicker rubber pads. This changed the bottoming out sound from a metallic scary sound, to a much more softer, quieter sound.

I am SO relieved to hear this. I really didn't want to have to replace one, or live with them in fear of doing worse damage. I'll check out that mod as well if the EQ doesn't solve things. Thank you!!!
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post #2141 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyH71 View Post
Excited to hear you impression on the MB. We need a few different options for "BOSS approved" drivers. Especially as some have pointed out the hardware under the seats can be IN THE WAY!

Casey
Roger that @CaseyH71, the low profile/shallow mount was the driving factor, not to mention the upgraditus that constantly plagues us all.
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post #2142 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
I think everyone would have to experience your setup to understand how much TR power it has. The BOSS does work great for most of us, but you are definitely a special case that could see a net loss in TR without a ton of drivers to make up for all that power.

I like the BOSS a lot, but I’m feeling less of an addition in TR below 15-20Hz than would be expected when combined with my pair of MA’s (Crowsons should excel here for the price). You’ve got 6 MA’s and 4 BK’s to give you a ridiculous amount of TR across their bandwidth, so I can’t imagine how difficult that is to try and improve upon. But 20-35Hz where I run the JBL’s hard, and where some of the choicest bass resides, these little 12” drivers really shine for me.

I think the few people in your situation would need a ton of drivers, maybe 8-12 or more, to make up for the lost energy. I know @DesertDog has 8 and I think @aron7awol has 6 or more now

How many people are running more than 3 drivers in their BOSS?

I’m curious what an additional 3 drivers would provide in my setup, but I honestly don’t need any more TR at this point.

Well, I was running just 3, but just rebuilt the platform to hold 6 JBLs instead of 3. Increasing the drivers definitely gives more intensity at the same gain (each driver is getting about 110 watts just like before with only 3) and MV. Looks like it is giving me about 4-6db more at the same MV and doing some other good things as well. More TR headroom under 20hz is always good (I was wanting more of this). I just posted some VibSensor readings of it over in the VS thread for comparison of 3 vs 6 drivers if anyone is interested.

So @Sekosche - more drivers is looking good so far. These are the very early stages and havnt actually tried it out yet, but the VibSensor readings clearly show more drivers is better for more power and headroom, not that you need more as you said your very happy with 3. I was too, but had to redo my build so thought might as well add 3 more drivers while I was at it

So, I went from this with 3 JBL drivers


to this with 6 JBLs ...


I could probably fit even more drivers in there (like 8-10 total) if I wanted them with the right bracing on this full riser. Don't think I'll need anymore with the VNF 18's and Crowson MAs, but might be fun to have in there, as I do love the feel of the BOSS
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post #2143 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a public service announcement for those new to this thread and haven't had the opportunity to read through it all.

If you have a mini-riser BOSS (one sheet of 3/4" plywood), please be aware that adding more than 4 drivers on the platform will start to reduce the BOSS experience due to the platform losing stiffness with the additional holes that need to be cut into that one sheet of plywood.

If you have the desire to add more than 4 drivers to a 4'x8' or smaller platform, it will have to be stiffened considerably.

Other members who have done more than 4 drivers have full size risers (lumber framing underneath plus 3/4" plywood on top). Or, have multiple sheets of 3/4" or 1" plywood glued and screwed together. Or, have stiffening ribs glued and screwed to their platform to keep the platform from losing stiffness due to the additional holes that need to be cut into it.

Just trying to avoid any BOSS design errors or mis-builds if you've come into this thread late and want to make a 6, 8, or 10 driver platform on a mini-riser.

If you want to build a Mega-BOSS platform (more than 4 drivers), the full size riser is recommended like @SBuger has above. Or, a highly rigid mini-riser like @DesertDog constructed as pictured below from his build thread detailing how he built his very rigid mini-riser BOSS platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post

Plywood cut and with the paint drying:


The frame assembled. I beefed it up a bit from the initially drawings and then I had an extra 6' 1"x4" so I added it into the mix too.


After attaching the plywood to the frame. It's nice and solid. It's actually a bit better than I expected. With it on the isolators I was walking around on it with no flex or issues.


Standing up to install the subs


Putting the couch back together on top of it. I almost got scared at first that I messed up the calculations due to not fully accounting for the size of the cleats but it ended up fitting perfectly.


Couch back together.


.

Last edited by trhought; 05-08-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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post #2144 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Well, I was running just 3, but just rebuilt the platform to hold 6 JBLs instead of 3. Increasing the drivers definitely gives more intensity at the same gain (each driver is getting about 110 watts just like before with only 3) and MV. Looks like it is giving me about 4-6db more at the same MV and doing some other good things as well. More TR headroom under 20hz is always good (I was wanting more of this). I just posted some VibSensor readings of it over in the VS thread for comparison of 3 vs 6 drivers if anyone is interested.

I could probably fit even more drivers in there (like 8-10 total) if I wanted them with the right bracing on this full riser. Don't think I'll need anymore with the VNF 18's and Crowson MAs, but might be fun to have in there, as I do love the feel of the BOSS
I need more drivers now.
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post #2145 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
@trhought, that is correct, I did get the DS1-304, and will be running it Solo, for now, looking to add a co-pilot DS1-304 down the line! Thanks all for your inspiration and guidance/direction. Espceially @Archaea, who has inspired me thru implementation. Hope to achieve a trial run tonight.
Can't wait to hear your impressions! Be careful with the power.....if WinISD is correct, it will only take about 20 watts of rms power for that one DS1-304 driver to reach Xmax
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post #2146 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Going to try out some heavy bass music tracks while the house is empty...like a BOSS.

Going to a rock concert tonight, so stoked for some live music with chest crushing bass.
@Sekosche How was the concert? Hopefully your seating was good for that chest cavity slam that makes it so good when those kick drums are pounding!
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post #2147 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 03:15 PM
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Does it have to be one of the mentioned subwoofer drivers for the BOSS to work?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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post #2148 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 04:23 PM
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My wife is going to kill me if she see's this... making room for the drivers under my chair. It's easier to just ask for forgiveness right?

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post #2149 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ Like a BOSS......until the real BOSS finds out
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post #2150 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cobr View Post
Does it have to be one of the mentioned subwoofer drivers for the BOSS to work?

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Here's a list of drivers that have been tried and worked so far to my knowledge:

JBL CX1200 - 12" driver sold at Best Buy and used for the original BOSS platform development
JBL GX1200 - 12" replacement driver - newer model replacing the CX1200
JBL CS1214 - 12" driver sold at WalMart and other locations...same as the 2 Best Buy drivers above
JBL GT-X1200 - 12" JBL model number available in Europe....same as the first 3 drivers listed, just another different model number
JBL GT5-12 - another 12" driver available overseas for BOSS builds in Europe
JBL Stage 1210 - another 12" driver available overseas for BOSS builds in Europe
MBQuart DS1-304 - low profile 12" driver that's only 3.5" tall instead of the normal 6.125" height for the first 3 JBL's above
Dayon Classic 15 Subwoofer - a larger subwoofer with great reports on performance for a single chair BOSS setup

May have missed some, if anyone has used drivers other than above successfully for your BOSS platform, let me know and I'll update the list.

@cobr ......if you have any other drivers in mind, just let me know the model number and I'll model them to see if they're a good BOSS surrogate.

Last edited by trhought; 05-10-2019 at 08:53 AM.
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post #2151 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 05:28 PM
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^^^ It’s called JBL CS1214 not 1210

And then there is the fourth brother, the GT-X1200(EU model), which is what me and @eeyoreDK have used. Also the same as CX/GX1200.

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post #2152 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^Thanks Nalleh!...updated list accordingly
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post #2153 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Poly....Thanks for the update on your BOSS build and additional details about your room and far field blending. Good idea on the "tuning fork" design concept inside the couch....now that's thinking outside the box!



Great to hear you're getting good TR with the BOSS baffle mounted to your couch. That's always the biggest challenge on concrete....getting ULF TR to the butt The advantage of concrete is there's no floor bounce to have to mitigate if it doesn't feel natural.



So now with your BOSS platform, you can control the bounce and tune it accordingly for what feels right. I didn't see mention if you have the rubber isolators prescribed in post 29. If not, I'd recommend putting those underneath your couch between the feet and the floor. That will help with the BOSS tuning also. Once you have the isolators underneath the couch feet, it's just a matter of additional fine tuning like you're doing now.



Some members with stiff couches and firm leather cushions have found LPF's lower than 30Hz and sometimes even lower than 20Hz have made the BOSS experience more natural.



Others with older and not-so-stiff furniture frames and cloth seats have found LPF's up to 80Hz to feel natural. So, I think the LPF setting depends largely on the type of furniture, cushions and coverings also. Having the ability to apply LS filters for the single digits using the mini-DSP is icing on the cake!



Hope some of this feedback helps.
Thanks Tim. I hadn’t considered using the feet. Since my boss is IN the couch I wasn’t sure they’d make a lot of difference, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Seems like that would make less work for my single JBL while at the same time, activating the whole couch more evenly. Hmmm, back to post 29...lol

My couch is interesting. Old squishy leather with a pretty rigid frame. I think a shallower rolloff will be a little better. Still experimenting of course. That’s the fun!
Interested in adding BEQ but not sure how to couple that with the existing profile. More reading!
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post #2154 of 3686 Old 05-08-2019, 06:34 PM
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Having the ability to apply LS filters for the single digits using the mini-DSP is icing on the cake!

Any tips for how to determine what LS filters to apply? I don't have a ton of experience with the MiniDSP other than basic crossovers and levels. I have settled on a 40hz crossover for now but I'm not sure how to proceed with the LS filter.

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Any tips for how to determine what LS filters to apply? I don't have a ton of experience with the MiniDSP other than basic crossovers and levels. I have settled on a 40hz crossover for now but I'm not sure how to proceed with the LS filter.
I'm going to try what @aron7awol suggested. Go to output on the minidsp screen and select "peq" for the output that is for your BOSS setup. 4.4dB is the gain, and the q and frequency are pretty self explanitory.


Not sure if there is a general consensus on what the best filter is or isn't, but this seemed good. I'd be open to different suggestions for sure though.

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^^^^ Should be LS of +4.4dB at 10Hz like Aaron mentioned....don't select PEQ, select LS as the filter type.
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Thanks Tim. I hadn’t considered using the feet. Since my boss is IN the couch I wasn’t sure they’d make a lot of difference, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Seems like that would make less work for my single JBL while at the same time, activating the whole couch more evenly. Hmmm, back to post 29...lol

My couch is interesting. Old squishy leather with a pretty rigid frame. I think a shallower rolloff will be a little better. Still experimenting of course. That’s the fun!
Interested in adding BEQ but not sure how to couple that with the existing profile. More reading!
Hey Poly....yes, definitely get the isolators. They will not only increase the displacement of your chair but also make it move up and down more naturally rather than relying on certain natural frequencies of your chair to get excited by the driver. With the isolators, the natural frequency of your BOSS chair will go down significantly which is what you want because it will be suspended softly. That will allow it to move on command from the driver movement and not rely on any other mechanical vibrations in the chair that may not feel natural.
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With the isolators, the natural frequency of your BOSS chair will go down significantly which is what you want because it will be suspended softly.

Is there a general guideline for how many isolators to use? I currently have 6 under a double recliner with one located where each of the seats feet are located.

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Is there a general guideline for how many isolators to use? I currently have 6 under a double recliner with one located where each of the seats feet are located.
Hey chucks0.....yes, generally 1 every 2 feet or so if you have a mini-riser. This will keep the 3/4" platform from bending too much when fully loaded.

If you have a full size riser platform or very stiff platform that doesn't bend, you can probably get away with less isolators and not lose much of the BOSS experience. It will be trial and error with a full size riser. But, in general a good starting point is one every 2 feet or so.

For a single sheet of 3/4" plywood, every 2 feet is the minimum requirement. If you start getting too much space between isolators, the platform will start to bend which you don't want. Post 29 has more guidelines on isolator placement also that may be good as a refresher as you're planning your isolator platform and BOSS design.

Hope this helps.
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[quote=trhought;58020082]^^^^ Should be LS of +4.4dB at 10Hz like Aaron mentioned....don't select PEQ, select LS as the filter type.[/quote @trhought , unless I'm doing something wrong, I have to select "PEQ" to open up the screen where I can then also specify the filter type as "LS". I may not have been clear enough at the very least, so thank you for clarifying.

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