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post #2251 of 2934 Old 05-12-2019, 10:52 PM
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So in light of recent posts regarding larger drivers in a BOSS, before building another platform to fit 6 drivers, I’m debating stepping up to a trio of 15” possibly Dayton Classics. These forums will be the death of me...

As you know, I was going to add three more JBL’s to my current 3 driver BOSS, and I already have them on hand. But it would save me a lot of time/effort building a completely new platform to stay with a 3 driver build and just step up to a little beefier and lower Fs driver and just enlarge the current holes.

Specifically looking at this driver: the Dayton Audio DCS385-4 15” for $84.95. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-206

I did some rough comparisons without modeling, and seems like a pretty solid upgrade on paper. Compared to the 12” JBL, the Classic 15 has 66% more moving mass, a much lower Fs of 17.5Hz, but 22% less Xmax. My thoughts are that the lower resonant frequency combined with the much higher mass will more than offset the slightly lower Xmax, and should help add significantly more ULF TR below 25Hz where I’m looking to increase.

Thoughts on using this driver? Hard to say if it’d be a worthwhile upgrade for the money, but it would be a lot easier for me than rebuilding a riser. I’d love to jump to a more high performance driver with a significant increase in Mms, and at least comparable Xmax, but those typically double or triple in price. I have a spare 18” RSS460-HO I’m not using, but I’m not sure it’d fit.

Also, anybody know of any comparable 15” drivers, around $100, and efficient enough to run 3 in series off an iNuke 6K? The BOSS has opened a whole new can of DIY worms, because I honestly wish it was more difficult to dissuade me from tinkering.
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post #2252 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 02:26 AM
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I would say since you have the 18, it will cost only wood and time if it will fit. Whether the 15 is better than the jbl is a unknown, care to be the Guinea pig? You would think it should be but is it worth the extra money is the question.

I think @SteveCallas used that 15"dayton thinking back.
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post #2253 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 03:20 AM
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Is it possible to get conformation of the drivers people are using for their BOSS risers?


I would be interested to see if they are available in the UK.


Also what amps are you guys using to power these drivers?
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post #2254 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 03:38 AM
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@Sekosche - Im using two of that Dayton driver in my two front row boss systems. Not only is the Fs and Mms better than the JBL, the Vas is a lot better too - all of which should contribute to better low frequency efficiency and linearity. It was the best suited low cost 15” driver i could find.

My back two risers with JBLs are nearly ready to test, had a slight detour with my Titan project.

I would go with the 15s
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post #2255 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 06:19 AM
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Ok, I want to start building one of these soon for my downstairs "extra" audio room. I am on concrete and feel that this would be a nice way to augment my cheaper Polk subs that only play down to 35 hz or so.

Here is my question. I have a Denon AVR with 2 sub outputs but NO other pre-amp outputs...Would it be possible to use the 1st sub pre-amp output with a splitter to both subs and the 2nd pre-amp sub output going to an external amp to power the BOSS system?


Guess I wasn't thinking of adding a BOSS system when I bought this AVR for my extra room.

Thanks,

Dave
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post #2256 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 06:24 AM
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Now I’m wondering if I should pick one up to test. That JBL is nuts....but I think the 15 would do better with ULF.


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post #2257 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Is it possible to get confirmation of the drivers people are using for their BOSS risers?


I would be interested to see if they are available in the UK.


Also what amps are you guys using to power these drivers?
Below is a list of drivers that have been used so far in various BOSS builds.

@Gorilla Killa is using 2 18" Pierce drivers, but they are a build-to-order driver so I didn't include on the list. If interested in that driver, let us know.

The Behringer DSP amps are being used mostly....hard to beat on a watt/$ basis and in the spirit of low-cost design, pairs nicely with the BOSS.

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Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Here's a list of drivers that have been tried and worked so far to my knowledge:

JBL CX1200 - 12" driver sold at Best Buy and used for the original BOSS platform development
JBL GX1200 - 12" replacement driver - newer model replacing the CX1200
JBL CS1214 - 12" driver sold at WalMart and other locations...same as the 2 Best Buy drivers above
JBL GT-X1200 - 12" JBL model number available in Europe....same as the first 3 drivers listed, just another different model number
JBL GT5-12 - another 12" driver available overseas for BOSS builds in Europe
JBL Stage 1210 - another 12" driver available overseas for BOSS builds in Europe
MBQuart DS1-304 - low profile 12" driver that's only 3.5" tall instead of the normal 6.125" height for the first 3 JBL's above
Dayon Classic 15 Subwoofer - a larger subwoofer with great reports on performance for a single chair BOSS setup

May have missed some, if anyone has used drivers other than above successfully for your BOSS platform, let me know and I'll update the list.
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post #2258 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
Here is my question. I have a Denon AVR with 2 sub outputs but NO other pre-amp outputs...Would it be possible to use the 1st sub pre-amp output with a splitter to both subs and the 2nd pre-amp sub output going to an external amp to power the BOSS system?

Dave
Of course, you can.
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post #2259 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Of course, you can.
Seems like a dumb question but only 1 of the sub outputs is all that is needed to feed to a BOSS amp? I dont know why I thought it was two outputs.

Doh..
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post #2260 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post
@Sekosche - Im using two of that Dayton driver in my two front row boss systems. Not only is the Fs and Mms better than the JBL, the Vas is a lot better too - all of which should contribute to better low frequency efficiency and linearity. It was the best suited low cost 15” driver i could find.

My back two risers with JBLs are nearly ready to test, had a slight detour with my Titan project.

I would go with the 15s

Keeping these on my short list of driver options, but might hold off for a bit. I’m really not finding much lacking in my system; as much as peer pressure and curiosity runs rampant around here, I think I’ll run the BOSS as is for a while and tweak things more to taste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
I would say since you have the 18, it will cost only wood and time if it will fit. Whether the 15 is better than the jbl is a unknown, care to be the Guinea pig? You would think it should be but is it worth the extra money is the question.



I think @SteveCallas used that 15"dayton thinking back.

Did a little more thinking this morning, and I’m definitely a little crazy for already wanting to mess with what I have. I honestly don’t need more TR right now. I even lowered the LPF to 25-30Hz to test today and watching Only the Brave with BEQ at reference is a beautiful thing! Very well balanced/natural feeling, and not jarring in an way.

Going to watch The Wave and The Quake next.

I’m not even sure I need to add the three extra JBL’s, but rebuilding the platform for added driver clearance was one reason, and I figured might as well while I’m at it. WAF improved already and was the second reason for a new BOSS build, but she said it’s hardly noticeable to her any more and doesn’t mind the riser, much like all the other gear that eventually fades into the room.

The BOSS is still pretty amazing with just three of these little JBL drivers! I’m more curious if some heavy duty drivers could replace the Crowson’s altogether, but that’s another significant chunk of money and not really needed at this time. Using multiple $2-300 drivers for a BOSS I’m sure seems like overkill to most...but this is the place for that. Think I’ll save anything too crazy for the next house; looking to move within a year, so no point in going all out here when I’m uncertain what the next room will have in store.
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post #2261 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
So in light of recent posts regarding larger drivers in a BOSS, before building another platform to fit 6 drivers, I’m debating stepping up to a trio of 15” possibly Dayton Classics. These forums will be the death of me...

As you know, I was going to add three more JBL’s to my current 3 driver BOSS, and I already have them on hand. But it would save me a lot of time/effort building a completely new platform to stay with a 3 driver build and just step up to a little beefier and lower Fs driver and just enlarge the current holes.

Specifically looking at this driver: the Dayton Audio DCS385-4 15” for $84.95. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-206

I did some rough comparisons without modeling, and seems like a pretty solid upgrade on paper. Compared to the 12” JBL, the Classic 15 has 66% more moving mass, a much lower Fs of 17.5Hz, but 22% less Xmax. My thoughts are that the lower resonant frequency combined with the much higher mass will more than offset the slightly lower Xmax, and should help add significantly more ULF TR below 25Hz where I’m looking to increase.

Thoughts on using this driver? Hard to say if it’d be a worthwhile upgrade for the money, but it would be a lot easier for me than rebuilding a riser. I’d love to jump to a more high performance driver with a significant increase in Mms, and at least comparable Xmax, but those typically double or triple in price. I have a spare 18” RSS460-HO I’m not using, but I’m not sure it’d fit.

Also, anybody know of any comparable 15” drivers, around $100, and efficient enough to run 3 in series off an iNuke 6K? The BOSS has opened a whole new can of DIY worms, because I honestly wish it was more difficult to dissuade me from tinkering.
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Originally Posted by Rowan611 View Post
Now I’m wondering if I should pick one up to test. That JBL is nuts....but I think the 15 would do better with ULF.
Below are the numbers on paper for a Dayton DCS385-4 15" compared to the baseline $29 JBL.

The Dayton 15" has 53% more mass (273g vs. 179g) and 38% less Xmax (9.3mm vs. 15mm), so the shaker potential is 1.53 x .62 which equals ~.95 which is pretty close to the JBL.

However, the 15mm for the JBL is Xmech while the Dayton 9.3mm is Xmax. If the Dayton 15" has an Xmech of say 15mm, it's shaker potential would be 1.53 times more than the JBL, so it really depends how much safety factor is in the 9.3mm published Xmax for the Dayton.

Now, for the frequency response, here's where it gets a bit more interesting, the Dayton is in Red below and the JBL is Blue.

With the loose suspension of the Dayton 15", it only takes about 20 watts to reach Xmax while the JBL takes 80 watts.

The Dayton will use much less power than the JBL's, so if that means moving to a smaller amplifier, that could make up for the extra cost of the Dayton drivers pretty easily.

You can also see the Dayton is more sensitive in the lower frequencies and it starts to rolls off above 20Hz.

So I would say, it really depends on your goals....if you seek increased single digit response and think your 20-30 Hz is already too much, then the Dayton will likely be the better choice. You'll likely be able to tune that Dayton 20-30Hz response to your liking with DSP easier than you can tune the single digit stuff with the JBL's. The JBL's are no slouch with the singles though as many of you know, especially with a low shelf filter.

I think it really depends on your ULF TR goals and space constraints of your BOSS design.......how much room underneath your seats and how tall your riser will need to be, plus a bit more cost with the larger driver.

The above is all just theoretical, of course, so it would need to be tested, but wanted to share some of the technical comparisons if that helps.

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post #2262 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 07:42 AM
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I love how versatile and scalable the BOSS is to individual setups. If you’re a fan of TR, it’s easily one of the best DIY projects for money in this hobby. Now to quit reading these forums and enjoy some content...

Get your BOSS on!
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post #2263 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Think I’ll save anything too crazy for the next house; looking to move within a year, so no point in going all out here when I’m uncertain what the next room will have in store.
If you plan to move your couch with you to the next house, then what's wrong with being able to enjoy it (all out) now, just saying - There's the point
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post #2264 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:12 AM
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Below are the numbers on paper for a Dayton DCS385-4 15" compared to the baseline $29 JBL.

Thanks for the modeling! I must have inverted the calculation for the moving mass, and I was just going by the JBL spec for 12mm Xmax versus 9.3 mm for the Dayton. I think had I gone with three of the 15” drivers to begin with it could have potentially been a little better choice for my setup, but who knows how that translates to TR without testing, and the $90 entry fee for three JBL drivers is much more palatable than $260 for an untested contraption, hindsight always 20/20.

For $30-45 per JBL, it’s definitely far and away the value leader for TR here.

The BOSS concept is so simple but seems a little foreign and crude when wrapping your head around it all and how it integrates so naturally with the furniture. I had a friend over the other day and he checked out the new BOSS riser and was interested, but I couldn’t demo anything with kids asleep. He‘s finishing a sweet dedicated media room, but his WAF dictates everything be hidden...she’s allowing one small subwoofer in the corner but everything else is in wall/ceiling.
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post #2265 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trhought View Post
Below is a list of drivers that have been used so far in various BOSS builds.

Gorilla Killa is using 2 18" Pierce drivers, but they are a build-to-order driver so I didn't include on the list. If interested in that driver, let us know.

The Behringer DSP amps are being used mostly....hard to beat on a watt/$ basis and in the spirit of low-cost design, goes nicely with the BOSS.

Thanks for all that info, was looking at the Behringer amps, it look like the have those Speakon connections for inputs? How do you go about going to RCA to these Speakon connectors?
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post #2266 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
..I’m debating stepping up to a trio of 15” possibly Dayton Classics. These forums will be the death of me...
Lmao! I know the feeling. Here's a link to a good reference for large Xmax drivers, as well as many things sub 20Hz related(other than BOSS)... http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/board/16/loudspeakers

Please note that I'm in no way affiliated with "The Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" other than having used it as a valuable resource when building my IB array. FWIW, I use 4 FI IB15 drivers in a vertical array. With the large excursion & power handling, I can't use it all. It becomes so violent that it literally rips the house apart with a Behringer EP4000 amp @ > 1 O'clock on the gain knobs. I couldn't be happier with them.
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post #2267 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
If you plan to move your couch with you to the next house, then what's wrong with being able to enjoy it (all out) now, just saying - There's the point

Come on man! Lol, having the platform also being portable makes it hard to argue with that. I’m just not sure if the 15” Dayton Classic would be a big enough upgrade to justify dropping another $255 on three, and I already have the 6 JBLs on hand, but it would be much simpler to keep the same riser rather than spend another full day building a new one.

By going all out, I meant more with some pricier 15-18” drivers, like the Dayton Reference line with a much higher moving mass. If the unused 18” Dayton 460HO I have on hand would fit, I could just buy one more of those and be set for ($300 though), and a pair would be 1,000g mms, a bit more more Xmax, but a similar Fs to the JBL, seems the reference RS line specs would fit a BOSS build better than the high output line, but I have a spare HO already. I really want to stick with using all three drivers areas of my riser too, so a trio of higher output subs would get pricy fast.

I love a lot of TR, but I’m not sure at what point it’ll honestly be too much and is just total overkill. I really think I’m fast approaching that area. Watching The Wave at reference now, and I don’t feel I’m missing anything.

After typing this up, think I’ll sleep on my options a while and go from there.

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MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
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Last edited by Sekosche; 05-13-2019 at 08:59 AM.
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post #2268 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:45 AM
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Thanks for all that info, was looking at the Behringer amps, it look like the have those Speakon connections for inputs? How do you go about going to RCA to these Speakon connectors?
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GXM-133-...0&sr=8-2-spell
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post #2269 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Thanks for all that info, was looking at the Behringer amps, it look like the have those Speakon connections for inputs? How do you go about going to RCA to these Speakon connectors?
I use the rca to 1/4 mono adapters to be able to use the rca as an input to the behringer amps... the output cable would be a speakon.

You could also buy a cable that has an rca connection on one end and a connection for the behringer on the other.

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post #2270 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Thanks for all that info, was looking at the Behringer amps, it look like the have those Speakon connections for inputs? How do you go about going to RCA to these Speakon connectors?

I use something similar to this:
https://www.parts-express.com/neutri...kaged--099-352

Or you can use the TRS, the iNuke accepts either input, make sure it’s mono.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...hoCMr4QAvD_BwE

You need Speakon/neutrik connectors to output from the amp that are easy to wire up. I’ve got the name brand connectors for my subs and also bought a cheap 4 pack and they work just as well for this purpose if not better (easier to put together): https://www.amazon.com/Devinal-Profe...=fsclp_pl_dp_4

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 05-13-2019 at 09:12 AM.
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Five of 6 my MBQuart DS1-304 should arrive no later than tomorrow night! The amp got here last week! Cutting the new holes in the platform might be a little tricky due to the seat blocks already being glued down but I think my DeWalt cordless jig saw can get most if not all of it done.
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post #2272 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 09:08 AM
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Five of 6 my MBQuart DS1-304 should arrive no later than tomorrow night! The amp got here last week! Cutting the new holes in the platform might be a little tricky due to the seat blocks already being glued down but I think my DeWalt cordless jig saw can get most if not all of it done.

Sweet! Are you cutting through two layers of plywood or one? I’m not sure my cheap little jig saw is up for the task of 1.5”, but I guess I’ll find out one day should that be needed.

6 of these drivers should be killer!
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post #2273 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 09:12 AM
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DIY cables are pretty easy if you can solder. If not, these work well too.
Hosa CPR-202 Dual 1/4" TS to Dual RCA Stereo Interconnect Cable, 2 Meters https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000068O17..._.Bz2CbYSB8PVD
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post #2274 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 09:26 AM
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pardon my asking, but where are these 29.99 drivers that I am reading of? I see them for about 50 to 60 bucks each.

Dave
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post #2275 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 09:31 AM
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pardon my asking, but where are these 29.99 drivers that I am reading of? I see them for about 50 to 60 bucks each.

Dave
Have to catch them on sale at Best Buy. The sale seems to occur at completely random times.

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post #2276 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 09:31 AM
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pardon my asking, but where are these 29.99 drivers that I am reading of? I see them for about 50 to 60 bucks each.



Dave


They go on sale at Best Buy.com occasionally. Right now they’re $65. Walmart has them for $43, but I believe they’re on back order.


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post #2277 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 09:53 AM
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I will have everything in this week for my 4 Dayton 15" BOSS build. I don't have any experience with the JBL version to compare, but I would be happy to share my impressions or any testing of interest.
But now seeing Tim's calculation of only needing 20 watts each I am already thinking about what to do with all that extra power!
Crazy hobby we have
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post #2278 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 10:07 AM
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If you arent in a rush give me a week. I may end up not needing a couple for anything.
Thanks! Let me know
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post #2279 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 10:24 AM
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Sweet! Are you cutting through two layers of plywood or one? I’m not sure my cheap little jig saw is up for the task of 1.5”, but I guess I’ll find out one day should that be needed.

6 of these drivers should be killer!
It will be 2-1/8" actually (I used 2 layers of 1-1/16" plywood)! I'm looking forward to the additional TR! I hope that will be enough because I have no plans for any more

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post #2280 of 2934 Old 05-13-2019, 10:25 AM
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pardon my asking, but where are these 29.99 drivers that I am reading of? I see them for about 50 to 60 bucks each.

Dave
And the sale price seems to only last for one day so you have to act fast when they do go on sale!

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