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post #2461 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 12:35 AM
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the advantage at home with the boss is that it does not interact on the frequency response unlike the subwoofer NF!

In blue the boss and in green with the subwoofer NF
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post #2462 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 07:41 AM
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BOSS 2.0 lives!


RIP BOSS 1.0, you’ll always have a special place in my bass heart of hearts.
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post #2463 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 07:44 AM
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between the construction with 3 subwoofer and the construction with 6 subwoofer there really is a big difference?
you find that the 2 subwoofer nf really bring a value compared to the boss at home?
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post #2464 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Anyone know the difference between the JBL GT-X1200 & JBL GT5-12.

Is one better than the other?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rom_2305 View Post
I realized a platform with 2 jbl gt5-12 and I am very satisfied with the result !!
I even canceled my NF subwoofer with his dayton um 15
mms=216g
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Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post

Maybe @trhought can model the JBL GT5-12 for you to show what’d work best.
Specs are listed here: https://www.harmanaudio.com/jbl/GT5-12_.html
Yes. The GT5-12 is a very capable BOSS driver.

With it's higher Mms (216 vs. the 179 baseline) plus the 2mm higher excursion its shaker potential is about 1.3x more than the baseline JBL. The GT-X1200 listed above is the same driver as the baseline JBL, so both are great candidates for a BOSS driver. The GT5-12 has a slight advantage due to the slightly higher moving mass and excursion.

The frequency responses for both are below.....blue is the GT-X1200 and red is the GT5-12.

Both behave quite similarly across the frequency range. The GT5-12 takes about 100 watts to reach Xmax while the GT-X1200 takes 80 watts to reach Xmax.

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post #2465 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rom_2305 View Post
between the construction with 3 subwoofer and the construction with 6 subwoofer there really is a big difference?
you find that the 2 subwoofer nf really bring a value compared to the boss at home?
rom.....great question.

There's quite a few difference between @Sekosche 's BOSS 1.0 and BOSS 2.0 so it will likely be hard to determine how much more the 3 extra drivers contributed to his overall BOSS experience when looking at just those 3 drivers alone.

The differences from what I know are below....Sekosche may have some additional info or corrections...

1.0 had two separate stacked platforms, one for his Crowson MA's and then that platform was stacked on top of the BOSS platform. 2.0 has just the BOSS platform by itself now with the couch and MA's resting directly on it. This by itself will tend to make the BOSS effect more direct and natural feeling by eliminating 1 degree of freedom the MA platform was adding to the system.

2.0 has both cantilevered and traditional under-the-couch BOSS driver placements....3 drivers under and 3 drivers cantilevered. This will likely result in more dynamic bounce of the platform from the additional shaker potential plus the added lever action gained by the bigger 2.0 platform if supported correctly underneath to maximize the lever action

With the larger surface area of 2.0, it will react even more to his VNF subs right behind the couch for added TR.

Additionally, with 2.0, the cantilevered BOSS platform he now has could be used to add a shelf behind the couch over the cantilevered drivers and place his VNF's on top of that shelf for added BOSS TR plus PV TR.

So, not only did Sekosche add 3 additional BOSS drivers, there's a lot more differences that will enhance the overall BOSS experience in addition to those 3 drivers alone.
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post #2466 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:10 AM
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I can't believe how much this thread has evolved since it started. I have still yet to build one even though I have two subs and 2 sets of 4 isolators. I am going to try and build one for my chair over the holiday weekend maybe. The Carver 15cb amp I was going to use is not working so I will see if my second one is or use my Carver 5cb amp bridged to run one sub. Not sure if my wife will like it or not so this will be a test for her as well.
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post #2467 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post
Joined the BOSS club with my 4 15” Dayton mini riser. Enjoying it so far, very happy with the results.
I'm loving your 4 x 15" BOSS platform AcousticSoul....nicely done! Can't even tell it's there.....until, of course, the ground starts to move below you! Love it!
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post #2468 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I can't believe how much this thread has evolved since it started. I have still yet to build one even though I have two subs and 2 sets of 4 isolators. I am going to try and build one for my chair over the holiday weekend maybe. The Carver 15cb amp I was going to use is not working so I will see if my second one is or use my Carver 5cb amp bridged to run one sub. Not sure if my wife will like it or not so this will be a test for her as well.
Hey Doug....welcome back. Yeah, pretty incredible all the variations of the BOSS platform that's happened so far....the power of diverse thought and community idea sharing!

Looking forward to learning more about your build and first experiences when it happens.

As always, as you're getting closer to pulling the trigger and have any questions, just fire away!
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post #2469 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post
Joined the BOSS club with my 4 15” Dayton mini riser. Enjoying it so far, very happy with the results.
Love those 15's! But I love the coffee table even more! Did you build it or buy it? If bought - where?

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post #2470 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:49 AM
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I left the mini riser in for the MA’s to sit under, so it’s still stacked. Only big change is the three extra drivers in the back now which are technically cantilevered I guess, running some EOT VS measurements now. I’m sure it’s not just a simple upgrade in drivers, but will be interesting to see how it changes the TR.
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post #2471 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Another BOSS Driver Candidate

Posting another BOSS driver candidate from a PM recently received.

This is the 12 inch driver used in an SVS PB12 plus 2 subwoofer (TC Sounds DB-500).

Another great BOSS driver if anyone has one of these subs laying around or can score a good deal on a used one.

It has a shaker potential of 1.2x the baseline JBL at Xmax.

And, at Xmech it has a shaker potential of 2.2x the baseline JBL.

The frequency response is very similar between both when looking at the WinISD plots below.....red is the TC Sounds and blue is the JBL.

The TC Sounds subwoofer will take about 80 watts to reach Xmax (the first plot) and about 225 watts to reach Xmech (the second plot).



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post #2472 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 09:28 AM
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The 10Hz TR is amazing with BOSS 2.0! Excellent gains across the board though going by the butt-o-meter. I feel like I need a helmet for safety.

Going to spin up those two BEQ movies now and enjoy.

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post #2473 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ NICE!! @Sekosche Enjoy those movies today! We're going to check out Hellboy 2 this weekend. Godzilla (1998) was awesome after rewatching this week with the BOSS and BEQ!
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post #2474 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 12:10 PM
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Looking ahead for a 4 driver mini-boss.

Step 1. Obtain drivers - Sure do wish the $29 sale would happen, but might have to bite the bullet with current pricing as available.

Step 2. Amplification thoughts:
A. Currently I have an older Sony ES4300 AVR with multi channel inputs, it has a 100 watt per channel
selectable 4 or 8 ohms. Its a 7 channel amp so no worries to drive 4 JBL's. Question I wonder is, will it drive them enough? My initial thought was to use this until I could get an Inuke.
or
B. Local classified ads just popped up with a QSC 302 commercial amp rather cheaply priced. See attachment of specs. Would something like this work, clearly I'd have to get rca to xlr adapters.
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post #2475 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Looking ahead for a 4 driver mini-boss.



Step 1. Obtain drivers - Sure do wish the $29 sale would happen, but might have to bite the bullet with current pricing as available.



Step 2. Amplification thoughts:

A. Currently I have an older Sony ES4300 AVR with multi channel inputs, it has a 100 watt per channel

selectable 4 or 8 ohms. Its a 7 channel amp so no worries to drive 4 JBL's. Question I wonder is, will it drive them enough? My initial thought was to use this until I could get an Inuke.

or

B. Local classified ads just popped up with a QSC 302 commercial amp rather cheaply priced. See attachment of specs. Would something like this work, clearly I'd have to get rca to xlr adapters.

That QSC is way more powerful and more suited to the task. You’d be lucky to get 40-50 watts per channel out of the receiver with all channels driven, but it might still work OK for 4 JBLs in the meantime. You need a way to EQ the BOSS though, unless the AVR LPF goes down to at least 40Hz or lower, so neither of those options are optimal unless you have a miniDSP too. Also, make sure the QSC doesn’t have an infrasonic HPF filter that isn’t defeatable, some of the pro amps cut off hard below 20Hz with no way to prevent it.
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post #2476 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
That QSC is way more powerful and more suited to the task. You’d be lucky to get 40-50 watts per channel out of the receiver with all channels driven, but it might still work OK for 4 JBLs in the meantime. You need a way to EQ the BOSS though, unless the AVR LPF goes down to at least 40Hz or lower, so neither of those options are optimal unless you have a miniDSP too. Also, make sure the QSC doesn’t have an infrasonic HPF filter that isn’t defeatable, some of the pro amps cut off hard below 20Hz with no way to prevent it.
Thanks @Sekosche .
Hey, sure do love the version 2.0!!!!!!!!!! I'm Super Jealous. Funny to re-read through the last months of posts. You seemed quite content with version 1.0. And then the darn Upgrade-itis bug bit, just as it always does.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I can't believe how much this thread has evolved since it started. I have still yet to build one even though I have two subs and 2 sets of 4 isolators. I am going to try and build one for my chair over the holiday weekend maybe. The Carver 15cb amp I was going to use is not working so I will see if my second one is or use my Carver 5cb amp bridged to run one sub. Not sure if my wife will like it or not so this will be a test for her as well.
If you have the materials just do it! You won't regret. I had bass shaker before but this BOSS is unreal. I'm still tweaking the EQ and filters but it is a kind of it's own. Just build it!

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post #2478 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 02:28 PM
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Love those 15's! But I love the coffee table even more! Did you build it or buy it? If bought - where?
Thanks! It was a fun build. My kids think I am crazy of course. The coffee table is made from old railroad ties. Best thing is it can take all my grandsons abuse and if it needs cleaning I can take it outside and power wash it.
I found it at a local rustic/western furniture store.

@Sekosche Great job on 2.0! Any more powerful than that and we may need to invest in crash dummies for testing purposes
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Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post
@Sekosche Great job on 2.0! Any more powerful than that and we may need to invest in crash dummies for testing purposes
Watched any good demos yet?

Thanks, lol. I did tell a friend to bring a helmet next time he comes over. I’ll leave the really heavy hitting and testing to the pro TR junkies like @Nalleh and @SBuger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Thanks @Sekosche .

Hey, sure do love the version 2.0!!!!!!!!!! I'm Super Jealous. Funny to re-read through the last months of posts. You seemed quite content with version 1.0. And then the darn Upgrade-itis bug bit, just as it always does.
Excited for you to get your BOSS going!

Thanks, it has a lot more WAF 2.0 as well from the pic I sent her. Blends into the room much better and won’t trip on it, and I really was content with 1.0. It’s not like BOSS 2.0 is throwing me across the room where 1.0 was tame; they’re both awesome, but this one is definitely a keeper.

To me, the beauty of the BOSS is it’s simplicity and ability to use cheap drivers or really any driver..that also makes upgrading it more tempting, but I’m done for serious this time. Sure, not everyone has an an amp or all the tools to build one lying around, but for the money invested, the natural TR it provides is simply unbeatable compared to all the other options available. I bet I easily spent considerably less than it would have cost to buy a single MA on both BOSS builds.
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post #2480 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
Step 2. Amplification thoughts:
A. Currently I have an older Sony ES4300 AVR with multi channel inputs, it has a 100 watt per channel
selectable 4 or 8 ohms. Its a 7 channel amp so no worries to drive 4 JBL's. Question I wonder is, will it drive them enough? My initial thought was to use this until I could get an Inuke.

I have an old Onkyo receiver for my BOSS setup with a MiniDSP handling the crossovers. I'm actually amazed with how well it works.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
Thanks, it has a lot more WAF 2.0 as well from the pic I sent her. Blends into the room much better and won’t trip on it, and I really was content with 1.0. It’s not like BOSS 2.0 is throwing me across the room where 1.0 was tame; they’re both awesome, but this one is definitely a keeper.
I do like the rounded corners in the front. I'll incorporate the same with mine.
With the 6 cutouts in your lower boss platform, what did you do to stiffen it up with? 1x4 wood or steel strap?

Also, when you put your couch on, how far back does the cantilevered area extend?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
I have an old Onkyo receiver for my BOSS setup with a MiniDSP handling the crossovers. I'm actually amazed with how well it works.
Appreciate the info. I do have a MiniDSP so it'll be in the chain for sure. Until I get a better dedicated amp the ol' sony of mine will get a workout. Might not be the best TR, but time to get started.
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post #2482 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevnmin View Post
I do like the rounded corners in the front. I'll incorporate the same with mine.

With the 6 cutouts in your lower boss platform, what did you do to stiffen it up with? 1x4 wood or steel strap?



Also, when you put your couch on, how far back does the cantilevered area extend?


Thanks for the complement!

Nothing used to stiffen it, figured it’s double ply sheets at 1.5” thick and plenty sturdy with the isos and two people even with six holes. Supports us both with a little over 1” clearance to the ground, which is why I flush mounted the drivers this time. I guess you could add some support rails if worried about flexing, but mine is pretty darn solid with the weight nicely distributed.

The platform is 40”x86”, and the back/bottom of my couch stops about 12” from the back of the platform, the inverted tapered driver allows for fairly close placement and that’s with 2” between the driver mount and very back edge, but I could still move the couch back 3-4” more before hitting the driver magnet. Here’s my build thread with more detailed pics scattered throughout: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...063116?page=11

I think we oversell necessary power a lot of the time (guilty there), 80watts RMS might be recommended for these JBLs in a BOSS to reach their full potential, but even with a handful of watts you should see some solid results with the AVR like @chucks0 mentioned. Hope it all comes together nicely for you!

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 05-23-2019 at 07:50 PM.
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post #2483 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 07:53 PM
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After spending a couple days with my BOSS setup I wanted to share my thoughts. Following this thread piqued my interest, but having no real experience with TR other than what my subs provide I was skeptical that it would be more than just the couch shaking. For the relatively small cash outlay I was willing to chance it to see if the excitement was justified or if it was just the wild and crazies making a thrill ride out of audio.
It is truly an upgrade and I have a hard time explaining/understanding how my couch moving fools my ears and body into believing and being more immersed in what I am watching. I think the best example i can share is Irene!, I have watched that scene many times and it was ok but nothing special. Now somehow those copter blades have weight, I get it now. When you get it setup and it blends it is a thing of beauty.
As for the thrill ride you can always get that too. Put EOT on and turn it up and be proud to be one of the wild and crazies!
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post #2484 of 2765 Old 05-23-2019, 08:01 PM
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Yes. The GT5-12 is a very capable BOSS driver.

With it's higher Mms (216 vs. the 179 baseline) plus the 2mm higher excursion its shaker potential is about 1.3x more than the baseline JBL. The GT-X1200 listed above is the same driver as the baseline JBL, so both are great candidates for a BOSS driver. The GT5-12 has a slight advantage due to the slightly higher moving mass and excursion.

The frequency responses for both are below.....blue is the GT-X1200 and red is the GT5-12.

Both behave quite similarly across the frequency range. The GT5-12 takes about 100 watts to reach Xmax while the GT-X1200 takes 80 watts to reach Xmax.

Many thanks for the comparison, just got to work out if I have enough clearance for two under each seat now
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post #2485 of 2765 Old 05-24-2019, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AcousticSoul View Post
After spending a couple days with my BOSS setup I wanted to share my thoughts. Following this thread piqued my interest, but having no real experience with TR other than what my subs provide I was skeptical that it would be more than just the couch shaking. For the relatively small cash outlay I was willing to chance it to see if the excitement was justified or if it was just the wild and crazies making a thrill ride out of audio.
It is truly an upgrade and I have a hard time explaining/understanding how my couch moving fools my ears and body into believing and being more immersed in what I am watching. I think the best example i can share is Irene!, I have watched that scene many times and it was ok but nothing special. Now somehow those copter blades have weight, I get it now. When you get it setup and it blends it is a thing of beauty.
As for the thrill ride you can always get that too. Put EOT on and turn it up and be proud to be one of the wild and crazies!
AcousticSoul....Thanks for the update and sharing your experiences with your BOSS so far. Great to hear you're satisfied with your build and your results!

The BOSS still surprises me at times. It's been about 7 months since the first prototype was put into service in our theater. One would think the novelty would start to wear off but the BOSS reminds us it's still there is some unexpecting yet very satisfying way. Doesn't matter if it's movies or music, it just adds so much to the overall experience in a very natural way and with authority.

One question, WinISD is showing the Dayton 15's need about 20 watts to do a great job in a BOSS application. Any idea if that's in the ball park. Reason I ask, with your four, that would mean less than ~100 watts total is being used for your BOSS. I'm trying to correlate WinISD results to real world BOSS applications and just looking for more data points....so far WinISD has been pretty accurate.

Enjoy your newfound ULF.....looks great and I agree with brazensol, that table is awesome and compliments your sectional beautifully!
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post #2486 of 2765 Old 05-24-2019, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks for the comparison, just got to work out if I have enough clearance for two under each seat now
You're welcome Adam! As always, just fire away with any questions as your BOSS design starts to come into focus.
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post #2487 of 2765 Old 05-24-2019, 07:43 AM
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My cantilevered platform does not stick out very far at all from the back of the seats. If you drew a perpendicular line from the back of the headrest to the platform it might stick out 3". I barely had to move my seats forward to maintain clearance from my bar to the second row seats and from the 2nd row riser to the first row seats. If interested I can get an an exact distance for you.

Thank you for the tip. After looking at it and thinking about it more, I was actually more concerned with the necessary height increase for my front row, I wanted to avoid this. It turned out there wasn't enough space under the chair, so I mounted some wood to the back of the chair, near the bottom. It looks similar to the cantilevered solution, but it's a direct mount rather than a platform. Based on the differences that Archaea described between the two approaches, I think the direct mount does line up with my personal preferences more, anyway.



I have a question for anyone about adding more subs to the system - I have an NX3000D amp and I'd like to have at least 5 JBL GX-1200s in my system. I see most setups wire 3 JBLs for a 12 ohm load, would it be OK to wire 4 or 5 in one series? Would the NX3000D deliver enough power on a single channel for all of them (I'd prefer them on a single channel in case I decide to add more for the back row, which would probably need different EQ)?
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post #2488 of 2765 Old 05-24-2019, 08:08 AM
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I have a question for anyone about adding more subs to the system - I have an NX3000D amp and I'd like to have at least 5 JBL GX-1200s in my system. I see most setups wire 3 JBLs for a 12 ohm load, would it be OK to wire 4 or 5 in one series? Would the NX3000D deliver enough power on a single channel for all of them (I'd prefer them on a single channel in case I decide to add more for the back row, which would probably need different EQ)?
Edit: Sorry, I can’t math today, reworking the numbers I screwed up.

I wouldn’t wire more than 3 in series on an iNuke 3K, as you’ll lose way too much power going to a 16-20ohm impedance. I’d stick with 4 drivers and wire them series/parallel for a 4ohm load or 6 drivers wired like the diagram below.

Typically, every doubling of impedance halves the power available due to the decreased current. I believe the iNuke 3K puts out ~500w RMS (might have been closer to 600 I forget) into 4ohm per channel, which is plenty for series/parallel wiring 4 drivers; 3 drivers in series at 12ohms will still get you 75watts each if you want to run 3 per channel. More than that you’ll be leaving a lot of potential on the table.

I’m currently running my 6 drivers as 2 sets of 3 speakers in series, with those 2 sets in parallel for a 6ohm load; a 475 watt total limiter, gives them 79w each:

The BOSS is very efficient with these JBL drivers safely capping out at 80w RMS, but I’ve given them a lot more and haven’t fried them yet.

Watching Venom now with BEQ and the BOSS just slams!
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Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 05-24-2019 at 10:39 AM.
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post #2489 of 2765 Old 05-24-2019, 09:02 AM
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@trhought
I think I am driving them harder than that. They are wired series/parallel so a 4 ohm load to a nx3000d. I have the gain knob at 50% and using only one channel. I am not familiar enough and don't understand the amp yet to know how to set limits or what I am actually feeding them. Also I generally watch stuff at -10 and haven't pushed it to reference. Probably should figure that out before I kill them
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post #2490 of 2765 Old 05-24-2019, 09:14 AM
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@trhought

I think I am driving them harder than that. They are wired series/parallel so a 4 ohm load to a nx3000d. I have the gain knob at 50% and using only one channel. I am not familiar enough and don't understand the amp yet to know how to set limits or what I am actually feeding them. Also I generally watch stuff at -10 and haven't pushed it to reference. Probably should figure that out before I kill them
Edit: haha whoops, forgot you had the 15”

Each of your 4 drivers gets 25% of the power available, so if you set your limiter to whatever watts per driver x4 @ 4ohm that’ll feed them each their max. It’s hard to guess how your system is calibrated as to how hard you’re driving them.

Speakers: PSA MTM-210T x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2; Atmos-SVS Satellite x2, DIY Volt-10 x2
Subs: PSA V1801 x2, DIY: 18" RSS460HO, 15" RSS390HO x2, BOSS w/JBL CX1200 x6
MA’s: Crowson Tech x2
Processing: Denon X4200, NU6KDSP, 3KDSP
Video: Epson 3700; Screen: Silver Ticket 106" High Contrast

Last edited by Sekosche; 05-24-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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