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post #61 of 90 Old 10-09-2018, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Max5286 View Post
Trying to figure out where my surround should be.
Do you have sketch where you are trying to put them? Typically you want your Atmos in-ceiling speakers to align with your front left and right and optimized for your main seating position (about 2' or so in front and 2' or so behind the main seating position).

You don't need a fancy sketch here, even just a rough sketch on a piece of paper and then take a picture and upload.
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post #62 of 90 Old 10-09-2018, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Do you have sketch where you are trying to put them? Typically you want your Atmos in-ceiling speakers to align with your front left and right and optimized for your main seating position (about 2' or so in front and 2' or so behind the main seating position).

You don't need a fancy sketch here, even just a rough sketch on a piece of paper and then take a picture and upload.
I will work on the drawing!

How do you like your JBL Control 227c for surrounds? After looking at your build it would be easy to make small columns and use the MINI DSP to allow for 6 total surrounds which might solve my speaker location issues completely!
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post #63 of 90 Old 10-09-2018, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Max5286 View Post
I will work on the drawing!

How do you like your JBL Control 227c for surrounds? After looking at your build it would be easy to make small columns and use the MINI DSP to allow for 6 total surrounds which might solve my speaker location issues completely!
They work great. I did some A/B comparisons before I installed them with both JBL Studio 530 bookshelves (same line as my Studio 590 mains) and Klipsch RP150 bookshelves and I was surprised at how well the Control's sounded. They have very wide dispersion and play very clean with no distortion. They blend nicely with my mains too. I bought mine on Ebay (brand new) and you can't beat the price. They are not small though so make sure you build your columns deep enough to house them. Another option I was looking at were KEF inwall/ceiling speakers that offer wide dispersion as well.

BTW the Studio 590 speakers are $499 with free shipping at JBL again. This has to be one of the best deals out there right now and I cannot praise these speakers enough:

https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STU...upport#start=1
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post #64 of 90 Old 10-09-2018, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
They work great. I did some A/B comparisons before I installed them with both JBL Studio 530 bookshelves (same line as my Studio 590 mains) and Klipsch RP150 bookshelves and I was surprised at how well the Control's sounded. They have very wide dispersion and play very clean with no distortion. They blend nicely with my mains too. I bought mine on Ebay (brand new) and you can't beat the price. They are not small though so make sure you build your columns deep enough to house them. Another option I was looking at were KEF inwall/ceiling speakers that offer wide dispersion as well.

BTW the Studio 590 speakers are $499 with free shipping at JBL again. This has to be one of the best deals out there right now and I cannot praise these speakers enough:

https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STU...upport#start=1
Awesome! Wow, that's a great deal!! But, I have already ordered the HTM 12 speakers from DIYSG.

Yeah, I was looking at eBay and see the JBL Control 227c for $199 for 2.
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post #65 of 90 Old 10-09-2018, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Max5286 View Post
Awesome! Wow, that's a great deal!! But, I have already ordered the HTM 12 speakers from DIYSG.

Yeah, I was looking at eBay and see the JBL Control 227c for $199 for 2.
The HTM 12's should be awesome. I think the JBL Control should compliment them well. There are not many in wall/ceiling options using compression drivers and a coaxial design which is ideal for Atmos. You could also use them for in-ceiling Atmos or side surround duties. The dispersion on the 227c is very impressive (wide). I was originally going to go that route but had a challenge with ceiling depth in two locations that resulted in my using RSL's due to their more narrow depth.
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post #66 of 90 Old 10-09-2018, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
The HTM 12's should be awesome. I think the JBL Control should compliment them well. There are not many in wall/ceiling options using compression drivers and a coaxial design which is ideal for Atmos. You could also use them for in-ceiling Atmos or side surround duties. The dispersion on the 227c is very impressive (wide). I was originally going to go that route but had a challenge with ceiling depth in two locations that resulted in my using RSL's due to their more narrow depth.
I just ordered 4 of the JBL's for surrounds.... Thanks for the info! Did you test the sound before adding the addition side surrounds? I'm just curious if you noticed any difference??
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post #67 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 05:28 AM
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I just ordered 4 of the JBL's for surrounds.... Thanks for the info! Did you test the sound before adding the addition side surrounds? I'm just curious if you noticed any difference??
Can you clarify what you meant by test the sound? Do you mean adding a second set of surrounds feeding off the same channel? In short, I have not noticed any ill effects of adding the second set of surrounds. I even purchased a miniDSP as one of the concerns was time delay with the second set of surrounds and the minidsp is still sitting in the box because I think the four surrounds sound fine and I have not noticed any issues.

I will be putting the miniDSP in the mix though as I am also using the Audyssey MultiEQ editor app and REW. I have to add a little more diffusion and absorption and then hope to have everything dialed in over the winter break (two weeks off from work and no place to go
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post #68 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you clarify what you meant by test the sound? Do you mean adding a second set of surrounds feeding off the same channel? In short, I have not noticed any ill effects of adding the second set of surrounds. I even purchased a miniDSP as one of the concerns was time delay with the second set of surrounds and the minidsp is still sitting in the box because I think the four surrounds sound fine and I have not noticed any issues.

I will be putting the miniDSP in the mix though as I am also using the Audyssey MultiEQ editor app and REW. I have to add a little more diffusion and absorption and then hope to have everything dialed in over the winter break (two weeks off from work and no place to go
I meant before you installed the front or rear surrounds did you test the difference between having 4 surrounds vs 2? I am just curious if it is worth it.

So being completely oblivious to the workings of adding the additional speakers with the MiniDSP.... I am assuming you take the receiver pre-outs to the mini DSP and then add in an additional 4 channel amp to power them? How are you going to work out the time delay difference?

Look up GIK Acoustics. They are providing and designing acoustical treatments for my room and it's not that expensive. You can buy them online.
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post #69 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Max5286 View Post
I meant before you installed the front or rear surrounds did you test the difference between having 4 surrounds vs 2? I am just curious if it is worth it.

So being completely oblivious to the workings of adding the additional speakers with the MiniDSP.... I am assuming you take the receiver pre-outs to the mini DSP and then add in an additional 4 channel amp to power them? How are you going to work out the time delay difference?

Look up GIK Acoustics. They are providing and designing acoustical treatments for my room and it's not that expensive. You can buy them online.
Ah, yes I did in fact. Because of the wide dispersion of the JBL Controls I had acceptable sound from the front two surrounds, however, it was clearly improved for the second row with the additional. Since I wanted the symmetrical look of two more columns anyway, it worked out well. Part of this was my room layout. If I could have split the difference and had the side surrounds slightly more behind the first row I think I could have made it work with one pair. But I didn't have that luxury as my equipment rack was there.

Yes it is left and right surround speakers from the receiver to minidsp then you add the two additional channels and then to amp to speakers. The minidsp is slick and has a time delay feature you can set for any of the four channels (in my case the two rear speakers).

Thanks for the heads up on GIK, I have checked them out but am going the DIY route as I liked the movie poster idea I do need to buy some diffusion panels though and will check out GIK again.

Example of the DIY movie poster panels:
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post #70 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Ah, yes I did in fact. Because of the wide dispersion of the JBL Controls I had acceptable sound from the front two surrounds, however, it was clearly improved for the second row with the additional. Since I wanted the symmetrical look of two more columns anyway, it worked out well. Part of this was my room layout. If I could have split the difference and had the side surrounds slightly more behind the first row I think I could have made it work with one pair. But I didn't have that luxury as my equipment rack was there.

Yes it is left and right surround speakers from the receiver to minidsp then you add the two additional channels and then to amp to speakers. The minidsp is slick and has a time delay feature you can set for any of the four channels (in my case the two rear speakers).

Thanks for the heads up on GIK, I have checked them out but am going the DIY route as I liked the movie poster idea I do need to buy some diffusion panels though and will check out GIK again.

Example of the DIY movie poster panels:
How did you install the speaker covers for your surrounds on the columns? Did you build the column and then make frames for the fabric material?

What material did you use for covers?
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post #71 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
Ah, yes I did in fact. Because of the wide dispersion of the JBL Controls I had acceptable sound from the front two surrounds, however, it was clearly improved for the second row with the additional. Since I wanted the symmetrical look of two more columns anyway, it worked out well. Part of this was my room layout. If I could have split the difference and had the side surrounds slightly more behind the first row I think I could have made it work with one pair. But I didn't have that luxury as my equipment rack was there.

Yes it is left and right surround speakers from the receiver to minidsp then you add the two additional channels and then to amp to speakers. The minidsp is slick and has a time delay feature you can set for any of the four channels (in my case the two rear speakers).

Thanks for the heads up on GIK, I have checked them out but am going the DIY route as I liked the movie poster idea I do need to buy some diffusion panels though and will check out GIK again.

Example of the DIY movie poster panels:
Those look awesome!
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post #72 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 01:06 PM
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How did you install the speaker covers for your surrounds on the columns? Did you build the column and then make frames for the fabric material?

What material did you use for covers?
Built the columns then built the frames. This is the material I used for the speaker grill cloth as well as on the false wall for the front (also used black velvet):
https://www.acoustimac.com/fr-dmd-acoustic-fabric
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post #73 of 90 Old 10-10-2018, 01:08 PM
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Those look awesome!
Thanks! Even my wife, who was skeptical, loved how they turned out. They definitely helped with room acoustics. I have made 6 and have a few more to make. If you want to learn more here you go:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...els-cheap.html
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post #74 of 90 Old 10-30-2018, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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So its been awhile with and update as my electrical is taking forever and kids sports have been constant..... But in the meantime, I have been designing my baffle wall, speaker columns and ceiling clouds containing my atmos speakers and can lights. Do you guys foresee any issues with these designs?

The baffle wall will be built 2" behind the screen braced by 8 - 2x2 seismic spacers. Both the baffle wall and the wall behind will be covered in sheetrock and the area between will be filled with Rockwell and Pink insulation. The front of the baffle wall will be covered with 1.5" liner and then covered with black fabric. From my last build photos, you can see that it is an odd shape behind the baffle wall on top of the platform. Do you think that will affect it in any way?

Baffle wall photo.... Blue is the insulated area and the yellow is the speakers.

Let me know!
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post #75 of 90 Old 11-06-2018, 08:26 AM
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lights, my current go to. A contractors 10 pack. spray paint the baffles to blend with the ceiling, often black.


https://www.amazon.com/Globe-Electri...70_&dpSrc=srch


order MR16 GU10 LED bulbs at 3000K temp. They resemble halogen colored bulbs but a lot less watts and heat.
I just installed these lights in my room. Very happy with them. Any suggestions on how I can seal them? Maybe a box on the attic side or some putty inside the housing?

Receiver: Onkyo TX-RZ730 (7.2.4) Onkyo M-5010 (Atmos)
Front Wall: DIYSG Fusion10 L&R, Hybrid DIYSG Fusion10 center
Atmos/Surround: 4 Polk TSX 150C(DIY) 4 Yamaha NS-333
Subwoofers: Three HS-24MKIII 11.5 ft^3 sealed NU12000, XLS2502, MINIDSP
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post #76 of 90 Old 11-19-2018, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guy's,

So I have hit a major snag with the electrical in my basement and it has put the whole project on hold till I can get my meter upgraded... Boo....

But in the meantime here is my rough sketchup of what I want the baffle wall to look like.

The frame will be made up of 2x6's with 2 layers of 5/8 drywall and one layer 3/4 MDF sandwiched between. I want to put an access panel above the right HTM12 to access my PVC wire conduit if needed...

The outer layer of the baffle wall will be insulated with 1.5" duct liner and the speakers will have 3/4" soft foam duct liner on the fronts. I am an HVAC guy so I have my shop donating it to the cause... lol...

My only question is if it is worth all this work?... I was looking into doing the half walls (BigmouthinDC) recommended but the distance from subs to HTM 12 is to close and I don't think it would make a difference....

I was also curious if my Mini Marty/VBSS ports lining up with my SEOS guides is an issue... They are shown at ear level of MLP.

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BIGmouthinDC
I would love your opinion!
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post #77 of 90 Old 11-26-2018, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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2 layers of 3/4 properly glued and screwed is more than enough. I only did one layer of 3/4" OSB for my riser but spaced my decking 12" and used lots of wood screws and glue and have zero issues. You will be fine.

Yeah your floor joists are a mess, but you don't want to lose too much overhead room. Something like an RSL in-ceiling speaker (wide dispersion aimable tweeter and woofer) in a cloud type ceiling solution should work fine. Lots of us using the RSL for Atmos duty and they are very slim so you could build a cloud type solution that is only 4-5" deep which saves you as much headroom as possible.

Link to speaker:
https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

Example on cloud using these from Mr. Big:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post51508065
Thanks! I am running with the design!
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post #78 of 90 Old 11-26-2018, 01:10 PM
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I don't see a problem with your SEOS wave guides being next to the ports.
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post #79 of 90 Old 11-26-2018, 01:19 PM
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Yeah everything looks good to me.

But am I seeing this right that you have four subs upfront? Do you have subs anywhere else?
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post #80 of 90 Old 11-27-2018, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah everything looks good to me.

But am I seeing this right that you have four subs upfront? Do you have subs anywhere else?
That is correct...

4 subs up front (2 x UM18's - 2 x PA460's).
2 subs behind MLP (3/4 of room lenth 2 x PA460's)

I updated the baffle wall design and think this route will be easier to access in the future for upgrades.

Curious what the best material to line the front of the speakers? I was either going to go with a 3/4 foam or 1.5 duct liner.... But I think the foam will look better.
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post #81 of 90 Old 11-27-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Max5286 View Post
That is correct...

4 subs up front (2 x UM18's - 2 x PA460's).
2 subs behind MLP (3/4 of room lenth 2 x PA460's)

I updated the baffle wall design and think this route will be easier to access in the future for upgrades.

Curious what the best material to line the front of the speakers? I was either going to go with a 3/4 foam or 1.5 duct liner.... But I think the foam will look better.
These guys know what they are doing and they used foam on their baffle wall:
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/2013322baffle-walls/

And kudos on all those subs, that's gonna be awesome.
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post #82 of 90 Old 11-27-2018, 10:21 AM
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A few thoughts based on my own build:
- Are you planning on having the rear subs on the riser? If you can do it. You will get much better tactile response on wood vs concrete. I did this in my room and the rear sub is much more impactful than the front sub.

- If possible, and I wish I would have done this, if you have two rows of seating consider building a very short (like maybe an inch or so) riser for the front seating that is coupled to your main riser if you have your subs attached to the main riser. Again, I suspect you will get more tactile bass response. I wish I would have done this but have since added bass shakers which have made up the difference.
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post #83 of 90 Old 11-27-2018, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, the rear subs will be on the riser as well as the fronts.... But my only concern with this is I didn't plan on doing it this way so there is no sand just insulation. Curious if it will cause weird sounds measurements because of this...... Thought about installing some seismic bracing underneath... But that might be the wrong approach...

The 2 x 18" subs will be 10" behind my rear seating position (also my MLP)
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post #84 of 90 Old 11-27-2018, 02:18 PM
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Yeah, the rear subs will be on the riser as well as the fronts.... But my only concern with this is I didn't plan on doing it this way so there is no sand just insulation. Curious if it will cause weird sounds measurements because of this...... Thought about installing some seismic bracing underneath... But that might be the wrong approach...

The 2 x 18" subs will be 10" behind my rear seating position (also my MLP)
I have my rear sub on my riser with just insulation (no sand) and have not seen anything concerning with REW sweeps or with just listening. I doubt it will be an issue, you may need to worry more about things in the rooms above that are not tied down
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post #85 of 90 Old 11-29-2018, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is a Pic of the 4 Mini Martys... I built 2 extra for my dad.

Note.... The front panel is just set in place and not glued yet....
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post #86 of 90 Old 12-20-2018, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is an update....

Just ordered all my theater seating from Theaterseatstore. Tom over there was awesome and gave me the Black Friday deal + some to save extra money... I order the XS700 Premium Leather.

Also here are some photos of the Sheetrock installed and the first coat of mud... I had some issues with the cuts because my framing was not the best lol... The hallway suffers the most but I think with another coat of mud and sanding I will be able to make it work.

I cant decide on the baffle wall... and getting crickets on my post about it.... But I know I want to do one but also want to play around with the toe in and speaker heights so I think I will wait till the room is finished then build the wall after I figure out what sounds and measures the best. Thoughts?

It is starting to come together and getting more exciting by the day.
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post #87 of 90 Old 04-02-2019, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guy's,

So far I have posted a couple of different threads on speaker selection and room design suggestion and now the build is underway and wanted to create a build thread. This is a complete DIY home theater so if you guys notice anything I can improve please let me know! Here is the Plan.

Room Info:
(now) 24 x 11.75 x 8.8
Surround by 3 concrete foundation walls.
AT Screen to conceal speakers and clean up the look.
A 13x14x14 riser was built for theater seating with 2 layers of R13 insulations. Going to install 3 layers of 3/4 plywood. (Bass trap with will be cut with 6 x 4x24 slots)
A 11x4x14 front stage filled with sand. Same plywood construction.
Walls insulated with R13 insulation. (I really haven't done much research in sound isolation as it is under the kitchen in a wing of the house.
Soffit... These are going to be done in Sheetrock... Recomendations?
Going to run 2 wire chases in 3" PVC from my AV location to the Projector and the other to the Front Speakers.
Front seat view will be located 11.3" from screen and rear at 17.9'. (Thanks to BIGmouthinDC for info on this)


Build info.
7.2.4 Atmos
STR-169135-WAB Silver Ticket, 135 screen
Dennon AVR 4400H
Optima UHZ65 4k projector (Vivitek HK2299 - Got it for $900!)
Xbox 1x Blue Ray Player (not sure if this is the best option)
Tripp Lite SMART1500LCDT 1500 VA 900 W UPS
LCR Speakers ... HTM12
Surrounds.... JBL 227C with backer boxes ..
Subs... 2 MiniMartys with UM18-22 woofers and the new "Inuke" DSP6000 amp (added 4 x PA460 Vbss subs)
Height... 4 RSL C34e speakers
Monoprice 14/2 speaker wire.

Other items...

What do you guys recommend for Lighting? My ceiling joists are 2x8's so I am thinking I need a shallow mount.
Paint color/Type recommendations?
Carpet recommendations?
Seats?

I am really excited about this build but it is hard to maintain a budget with so many options.... On the speakers, I want to stay under 4k (subs included). If you recommend only a 5.2.4 system to get better speakers I open to it. The projector is already purchased but the receiver is still up to debate if better options are available ($1800 budget).

Thanks!



Here are some updates to the theater! It has been a very long process but is finally coming to a close. I still have to build the blackout panels around the screen (and clean) and the sound pannels... More updates to come.
Just posted a couple of updated photos on the progress... But had a quick question... Is there any advantage to using speaker terminal plates in the AV room other than cable management?



Not sure why the photos are posting rotated...
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post #88 of 90 Old 04-02-2019, 11:13 AM
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Conversation over!
Had exactly the same conversation...
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post #89 of 90 Old 09-30-2019, 12:36 PM
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were did you find the specs for the JBL Control 227C boxes? Did you go off the volume of the in ceiling back boxes? and if so what was the internal volume?

"we need more power" - My Wife.

Theater Build Thread - Wartooth
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post #90 of 90 Old 09-30-2019, 01:29 PM
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Not sure why the photos are posting rotated...

Before posting, I typically open my photos in the old school Windows Photo Viewer, and rotate them to what ever, and go to the next photo and rotate again, to whatever... it may look upside wrong.. but once you go through all the photos, which is quick with the Windows Photo Viewer, then I go back through all of them again, and rotate them to the correct orientation, as you would expect to see them.
By doing this, I think it re-writes the orientation into the actually file itself, and allows it to look correct when posting.


To enable Windows Photo Viewer by default, I used these instructions on Win10
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HT1.0 | HT2.05
JVC RS-2000 / Seymour AV Center Stage 130"diag, 2.35 / nVidia Shield
11.2(22).6 Atmos / Denon 7200WA / Denon 6300 / 2x miniDSP2x4HD / DIY treatments
2x NU6000DSP / 2x NU3000DSP / 2x Klipsch R-112SW / 4x UM18-22 / 4x PA-460 / 12x JBL 12"
Klipsch RF-82/RC-64II/RS-42/RS-41/BS-62/CDT3800-C-II
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