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post #1 of 123 Old 10-14-2018, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The Great Kiwi Build

I've been browsing these constructions forums for the last 10 years dreaming and waiting for the day where I could put forth my contribution. That day has finally arrived.


Foundations went down in August, frames have gone up since and the roof on next week. Expected move in date is late Feb/early March.

Room dimensions are 6.5m long, 5m wide and 2.7m high.

Will be a 7.4.4 set up. Undecided on whether I'll go with two rows of seating, or just one and leave a space at the back for poker night.

It will be a decoupled wall situation to help with noise. Gear....undecided, I won't be going with speakers behind the screen aside from the center as I want to show them off if I've spent far too money on them I like the Paradigm 95F and 55C, but can get a fantastic deal on the new Klipsch RF-7 II and RC-64.

Anyway, couple of photos.

Start by showing off the view. It's the reason we picked the site. Full view from the bottom of the southern alps all the way out to the beach on the far right.



Ground floor frames going in



and the room itself, fully light controlled



I will be updating the thread regularly with updates of the build progress and then the fit out of the room to follow.
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post #2 of 123 Old 10-14-2018, 06:43 PM
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Is this an addition to an existing house? Great view.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
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post #3 of 123 Old 10-14-2018, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Is this an addition to an existing house? Great view.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Completely new build.


Thanks mate, large reason for the purchase was the view, just so happened to be a lovely flat piece of land up a hell. Best of both worlds.
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post #4 of 123 Old 10-14-2018, 08:37 PM
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Great view !

Any grief from the neighbours up the hill ?

Cheers,
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post #5 of 123 Old 10-15-2018, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Great view !

Any grief from the neighbours up the hill ?

Cheers,

Nothing as yet, but the roof hasn't gone up yet so they aren't fully aware of the height. We're within regulations and have all the consents, but they seem a nice couple anyway. We've conversed with them since we purchased the section last year.
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post #6 of 123 Old 11-07-2018, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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So roof has gone on, finally at the point where I can start planning room layout. Audio quality is of the upmost importance. The Old Man is coming down for Xmas and we'll use that time to line the room.


Have been reading through the Sound & Vision article "Soundproofing 101: How To Keep Your Home Theater Quiet" and settled on a decoupled wall and ceiling with ply, vinyl and sound gib (dry wall) as my means of lining. As per this picture





Will be taking some queues from the brilliant staggered wall HT that landshark did. Love the design of the acoustic panels so will be incorporating that on the walls in between the columns that hide the side and rear surround speakers.


Can those more qualified than I am see any issues with this plan?
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post #7 of 123 Old 11-07-2018, 07:18 PM
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We have pretty much been using two layers of 5/8 drywall with Green Glue dampening agent between layers as the sound isolation method rather than MLV. Just another optional way of building, depending on your cost for MLV and Green Glue it may be more cost effective.


If you have any questions on the staggered walls design let me know,




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post #8 of 123 Old 11-07-2018, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
We have pretty much been using two layers of 5/8 drywall with Green Glue dampening agent between layers as the sound isolation method rather than MLV. Just another optional way of building, depending on your cost for MLV and Green Glue it may be more cost effective.


If you have any questions on the staggered walls design let me know,




Noice, I'll get the builder to provide me with a quote on both the ply and gib.



Re the staggered walls, was there an acoustical benefit for the different thickness, or was it as much about aesthetics as anything?
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post #9 of 123 Old 11-07-2018, 09:43 PM
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Purely aesthetics as far as the various height panels 1, 1 1/2 inch and 2 inches. We built wood frames for each panel so the cross hatch pattern of various height hard materials on the walls probably had some scattering/diffusion effect but that was not a consideration. The panels did hide acoustical treatments so in that regard they were functional. We used absorption, diffusion and some plain reflective walls around the room.

To get the random design I used a ceramic tile pattern generator where you specify how many different colors you are working with, and the ratio of tiles in each color and the computer generated some patterns. We tweaked it a bit so that it looked right. We surface mounted his existing speakers but they certainly could have been hidden behind the panels with the right speakers and backer boxes, or thin on-wall speakers and deeper panels.

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 11-08-2018 at 05:09 AM.
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post #10 of 123 Old 11-08-2018, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Purely aesthetics as far as the various height panels 1, 1 1/2 inch and 2 inches. We built wood frames for each panel so the cross hatch pattern of various height hard materials on the walls probably had some scattering/diffusion effect but that was not a consideration. The panels did hide acoustical treatments so in that regard they were functional. We used absorption, diffusion and some plain reflective walls around the room.

To get the random design I used a ceramic tile pattern generator where you specify how many different colors you are working with, and the ratio of tiles in each color and the computer generated some patterns. We tweaked it a bit so that it looked right. We surface mounted his existing speakers but they certainly could have been hidden behind the panels with the right speakers and backer boxes, or thin on-wall speakers and deeper panels.

Can't say that's something I've ever heard of? Is that an online tool?


I'll probably look to go with some basic columns and put surround speakers in them.


What I can't make my mind up on is soffit or no soffit. Wife really wants one, me I'm not so sure. Extra material means more cost etc. and I'd rather put the extra money to equipment.
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post #11 of 123 Old 11-08-2018, 01:30 PM
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here is one such tile pattern generator just tested and it is working. https://atrandom.iansharpe.com/random-tiling.php


As for soffit if you build it after the room is dry-walled it is a wonderful place to put recessed lights, duct work, wiring, atmos speakers all without concern of cutting holes in your drywall bunker and ruining your sound isolation. If you run flex duct-work laterally inside the soffits and partition boxes inside the soffit you attenuate the sound in the ducts and can create duct mufflers


good example of using a two level soffit for Atmos speaker backer boxes and duct mufflers here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post55837838







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post #12 of 123 Old 11-08-2018, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
here is one such tile pattern generator just tested and it is working. https://atrandom.iansharpe.com/random-tiling.php


As for soffit if you build it after the room is dry-walled it is a wonderful place to put recessed lights, duct work, wiring, atmos speakers all without concern of cutting holes in your drywall bunker and ruining your sound isolation. If you run flex duct-work laterally inside the soffits and partition boxes inside the soffit you attenuate the sound in the ducts and can create duct mufflers


good example of using a two level soffit for Atmos speaker backer boxes and duct mufflers here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post55837838








How have I missed that build thread? What a fantastic set up, lots of great educational photos, love threads with that much detail. Really like the soffit set up (most importantly, the wife does too) Thanks for the tile generator, will have a play.
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post #13 of 123 Old 11-08-2018, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Woolley View Post
So roof has gone on, finally at the point where I can start planning room layout. Audio quality is of the upmost importance. The Old Man is coming down for Xmas and we'll use that time to line the room.


Have been reading through the Sound & Vision article "Soundproofing 101: How To Keep Your Home Theater Quiet" and settled on a decoupled wall and ceiling with ply, vinyl and sound gib (dry wall) as my means of lining. As per this picture





Will be taking some queues from the brilliant staggered wall HT that landshark did. Love the design of the acoustic panels so will be incorporating that on the walls in between the columns that hide the side and rear surround speakers.


Can those more qualified than I am see any issues with this plan?
Hi Nick

I looked into using MLV and what I found out is it needs to be hung free ,not sandwiched between boards .

Think of a outer frame and an inner frame . The MLV hangs free between the two ,like a tent between the two frames and ceiling .As the sound waves hit the MLV it will wrap around the sound wave . Think of a ball being thrown against a solid wall it will bounce back . Throw the ball into a curtain and it will hit and just drop .

Also cost of MLV . Depending what weight you use 4kgm2 up 8kgm2 .
Sandwiching MLV between boards just as mass & dampaning and if you use 4kgm2 you are better of just adding a third layer of 10mm plaster board for the extra mass & dampening at a fraction of the price .You can even get up to 15kgm2 plaster board cheaper than MLV .

Here's a link that expains it better than I can ,you'll need to read through it .
http://www.jhbrandt.net/

In Australia the GG was going to cost me close to $2.5K and the MLV closer to $4K

Cheers
Mal

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post #14 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 03:47 AM
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MLV definitely needs to be hung free and not in sandwich application.


Anyone else note the double stud construction?

I understand some people like to show off their speakers, but if this ends up a row theater, why not shuffle some budget,
pour more into the projector and simply have a bigger screen experience?
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post #15 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 02:13 PM
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Anyone else note the double stud construction?

from 2010 to 2012, 1500 buildings were demolished by earthquakes in the area.
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post #16 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 04:55 PM
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That would explain that!
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post #17 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 05:18 PM
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It has caused me to wonder about clip and channel construction. I don't have any answers.
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post #18 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 07:25 PM
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I was thinking the framing is more then up to task, but the earthquake comment threw me with a curve ball too...
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post #19 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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from 2010 to 2012, 1500 buildings were demolished by earthquakes in the area.
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
That would explain that!
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
It has caused me to wonder about clip and channel construction. I don't have any answers.

So, a little bit of background. Christchurch wasn't just hit by 1 earthquake, it was hit by 3 over the course of about 8 months. One of which (September 2011) was recorded as one of the most powerful ever in terms of energy released. The houses that were demolished were, the majority of, located in suburbs that were red zoned. Literally entire sub divisions were knocked down and are now desolate waste lands. That's because they were built on swamp land. They were warned in the late 90s by an engineer that if a large enough earthquake hit the area then those houses would be wiped out, local council as is tradition, ignored him. Sure enough the earthquakes hit (via fault lines that were previously unknown) and the houses were dust. The problem though wasn't the houses but more the foundations, many of which didn't have reinforcing and mesh in them. Since then some concrete firm actually invented a new type of foundation called rib raft, or floating. It's concrete poured onto giant foam pads that can be re-levelled in the event of another earthquake that causes the house to sink slightly. Our building code itself has always been pretty high standard, the double stud is nothing new.


Are you able to expand on what you mean by wondering about clip and channel construction?
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post #20 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 11:35 PM
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Nick,

Christchurch ?

I assume your builder will be able to provide seismic ratings for the clip and channel system ?

And re the double studs - nothing will save a structure when the ground liquifies - my understanding is that parts of Christchurch have been permanently abandoned.

We visited friends there about two years ago and the rebuilding still had a long way to go 5 years after the big one.

Cheers,
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post #21 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 11:37 PM
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Oops - only saw your response after I posted !
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post #22 of 123 Old 11-10-2018, 11:38 PM
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The concern about clips and channel would be disengagement of the channel from the clips in a shake !

Cheers,
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post #23 of 123 Old 11-11-2018, 05:59 AM
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Or screws stripping out of the metal track. I've demoed some ceilings with metal track and in some cases been able to remove an entire sheet of drywall by tugging on one end. It is easy for installers with screw guns to over spin the fine thread screws and partially strip the holes in the metal. A few times I have had to demonstrate the correct method to a drywall crew, they want to go fast and their speed guns can be too much for the job. Particularly if all they do day after day is wood framed houses. Using an impact driver gives more control and they should resist sinking the screws below the surface on the first layer.
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post #24 of 123 Old 11-11-2018, 06:11 AM
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Learn something new everyday.

I was thinking substantial framing to hang RSIC clips right there, but then went straight to thinking about oscillation of a
flex wall, with BigmouthinDC's comment. Then it was all about how that room could disassemble itself in short order, and
be a death trap.


We're on Canadian Shield bedrock here, so maybe you actually feel a earthquake once every 20 years.
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Learn something new everyday.

I was thinking substantial framing to hang RSIC clips right there, but then went straight to thinking about oscillation of a
flex wall, with BigmouthinDC's comment. Then it was all about how that room could disassemble itself in short order, and
be a death trap.


We're on Canadian Shield bedrock here, so maybe you actually feel a earthquake once every 20 years.

Probably feel a quick every 20 days here....


Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Or screws stripping out of the metal track. I've demoed some ceilings with metal track and in some cases been able to remove an entire sheet of drywall by tugging on one end. It is easy for installers with screw guns to over spin the fine thread screws and partially strip the holes in the metal. A few times I have had to demonstrate the correct method to a drywall crew, they want to go fast and their speed guns can be too much for the job. Particularly if all they do day after day is wood framed houses. Using an impact driver gives more control and they should resist sinking the screws below the surface on the first layer.

If things go accordingly it'll be us installing them and I'd expect us to do a good job
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post #26 of 123 Old 11-11-2018, 01:39 PM
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Done properly it shouldn't be a problem. I've just seen some shady work.
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HI Nick

I'm using Rondo's wall system to frame out my shed and they found them very helpful even with a small job like mine .
My sheds 8.5mL x 5.2mW x 3.4mH ,5degree skillion ceiling.

They have Seismic wall and ceiling an acoustic system's . Might be worth giving them a call .
https://www.rondo.com.au/product

Cheers
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post #28 of 123 Old 11-12-2018, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
MLV definitely needs to be hung free and not in sandwich application.


Anyone else note the double stud construction?

I understand some people like to show off their speakers, but if this ends up a row theater, why not shuffle some budget,
pour more into the projector and simply have a bigger screen experience?

So how is that done when going with decoupled walls with 2 layers of lining? How do you have the MLV hung free in among all that?
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post #29 of 123 Old 11-12-2018, 08:37 PM
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studs-MLV-clips-channel- double drywall. In that stack the drywall doesn't touch the vinyl.


Personally I think the few proponents of MLV are those selling it.

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 11-12-2018 at 10:03 PM.
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Quote:
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Personally I think the few proponents of MLV are those selling it.
A few that sell it in Australia suggest sandwiching between layers . Atleast hang it loose between studs and channel it could hung loose .
Best way would be using it between walls in a room with in a room construction .

I think I'll use it as curtain backing . Its just expensive what ever you do with it .

Cheers

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