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post #31 of 48 Old 08-05-2019, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
The "large beam (???)" might simply be some metal stud wall and wood shorts, right out of Big's ht playbook.

Bigger sheets mean less seams. More weight but if you aren't the one slugging it....

Maybe some extra 2x4's, to cover for some framing oddities that can eat up lumber?

Can all this be dropped by a delivery boom, which could make life easier? Might save on the full body workout, if you're the muscle...
Whew a lot today. Responding to above messages:
- I like a lot of the ideas for the lobby. I'm sure we can make that nice.
- I agree the bar isn't working. Cut it out of the latest design.
- I'm hoping to grab just enough inches to manage to fit a 4 seat with loveseat in the middle arrangement for the front row. That would be my ideal seating so there's a "best seat" in front row center, that I can share with my wife.
- We're planning on hiring somebody to do the framing and drywall. We're not that big, so there's no way we could lift that much.
- I'm not sure how they plan to deliver it. Should be there Thursday, though!
- I'm still trying to understand how the baffle wall and screen support could be built. I thought a big beam across the top was suggested somewhere, but now I can't find it, and most examples I'm seeing don't seem to do that. It seems like I can mostly build it out of the 2x4's.

Other changes:
- Finally got into the new space and made measurements, so my SketchUp is quite a bit more accurate now!
- I think I can eek out a bit more width. The old home foundation is ~1' up from where the new slab is going to be, and they had to pour supporting concrete around and under the old foundation to stabilize it. This ate up a chunk of space into the room. But if I have a riser going across the entire length of the room (past the chimney) then I can gain 1' width!
- Axed the bar. Wife agreed it was time to let it go.
- Modified AV closet near entry door.
- Beefed up baffle wall to 2' to have plenty of space. Might decrease later.
- Contractor said they may need 7' for the mechanical room, so using that number for now. Might be less later.
- Arranged speakers in roughly appropriate positions?
- I colored a couple areas in the shadow box to the side of the screen as grey instead of black so it was easier to see the steps and entry into the mechanicals area.

Put together a materials list for the theater to be dropped Thursday:
- 250 of 10' 2x4's
- 75 sheets of 4x12' and 5/8" thick drywall (double layer on theater walls, single layer for theater ceiling, single layer for mechanical room)
- 60 sheets of 4x8' and 5/8" thick OSB (double layer for concrete floor, single layer for theater ceiling)
- 15 sheets of 4x8' and 3/4" thick OSB (single layer for risers)

Does that look vaguely reasonable? Seems like a crazy amount of material!

Thanks again, everybody!!
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post #32 of 48 Old 08-06-2019, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowDad View Post
- I colored a couple areas in the shadow box to the side of the screen as grey instead of black so it was easier to see the steps and entry into the mechanicals area.
Lots of great ideas and suggestions, I think you're on the right path. One of the only things I don't like on your latest design is the riser and steps, in particular the left side of the room near the screen. I think it'd be more elegant to make the riser symmetrical, instead of extending the riser on the left side, towards the screen. As it is it looks a bit odd, and it isn't ideal safety wise, it's easier for someone to trip.

Unless you need to go very frequently to the mechanical area, it seems wiser to go down to the floor level, and up again when entering that room. Eventually maybe creating a step on the left side, but not connected to the riser.
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post #33 of 48 Old 08-06-2019, 08:09 PM
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Not a fan of the steps there either. Could a solution be as simple as a full height hinged panel and fabric covered door up front? You'd need to open the panel to open the door, but you would have
visual symmetry up front and for the riser steps.

I do feel you are really dialling this in though. The loveseats also give you the 3' wide aisle space, so that's a nice touch to fractionally narrow the seating.
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post #34 of 48 Old 08-06-2019, 08:38 PM
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It does look like an excessively massive list.

I look at 60 sheets of 4x8' OSB and come up with 13-14 sheets per layer. Three layers (2 floor and 1 ceiling) assuming you aren't putting in two layers for the whole
room floor, and then two layers for the riser level.

What's the riser construction materials? All 2x4"'s ?
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post #35 of 48 Old 08-06-2019, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
It does look like an excessively massive list.

I look at 60 sheets of 4x8' OSB and come up with 13-14 sheets per layer. Three layers (2 floor and 1 ceiling) assuming you aren't putting in two layers for the whole
room floor, and then two layers for the riser level.

What's the riser construction materials? All 2x4"'s ?
I was estimating 15 sheets per layer to be extra safe. Then two layers for floor, one layer for ceiling --> 45 sheets. Then using the 3/4" OSB for the riser tops. And then added a few extra sheets to make SURE I've got enough. Getting more 4x8 sheets in there in the future would be a huge PITA, so I'd rather DEFINITELY have too much. Maybe I'll use the extra 5/8" sheets on the risers?

I hadn't researched too much into riser construction materials besides the large pieces needed for the top. I think 2x4's are kinda standard? I should be able to get decent lengths 2x4's in there in the future, so I'm not too worried about getting that in there right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silva741 View Post
Lots of great ideas and suggestions, I think you're on the right path. One of the only things I don't like on your latest design is the riser and steps, in particular the left side of the room near the screen. I think it'd be more elegant to make the riser symmetrical, instead of extending the riser on the left side, towards the screen. As it is it looks a bit odd, and it isn't ideal safety wise, it's easier for someone to trip.

Unless you need to go very frequently to the mechanical area, it seems wiser to go down to the floor level, and up again when entering that room. Eventually maybe creating a step on the left side, but not connected to the riser.
Ya I hate the asymmetry too. My wife came up with a new stair design and I think it's much better. Posted in the new SketchUp.

Cement poured today! Looking like a somewhat usable space today! Just need a ceiling...

New plan is contractor is going to go ahead and frame the theater walls, the mechanical walls, and the BACK of the screen wall, but NOT the front of the screen wall. I'm too concerned with how to build a baffle wall correctly, exactly how deep to make it, and what spaces to leave for speakers. I don't know if I'll figure that out quickly enough to get it done with the rest of this plan. However, I'm close to sure on how I want the rest of the framing to be done, so I think it'd be great to go ahead and have them do it.

Current concerns:
1. Do I need to do anything special (decoupling? double drywall?) for the back screen wall (adjacent to theater) for a baffle wall? I think it should be just a regular 2x4 frame with drywall attached. The front screen wall (baffle wall) is going to be double drywall/glued, so I think those two walls combined should adequately control sound coming from the mechanical room.

2. Do I need to figure out exactly where surround speakers will be going before framing? I think I can place them between studs without too much trouble, or just move a stud over here or there in the future if necessary, when I know what speakers I'm actually placing.

3. There's a bump-out around the whole side of the wall adjacent to the original house (family room wall) that is from the original foundation extending beyond the house and then new cement being poured around, next to, and under it to reinforce this. This causes a shoulder extending into the room 8-10" and raised ~1 foot from the slab floor. I'm not sure how to sound isolate this, or even how critical it is. I'm going to build a riser walkway over this surface (by ~2"?) so I can extend the width of the room. I'm hoping to cover it with whatever sound isolation I'll be doing for the floor (Serena Mat Underlay?) and OSB and call it good. However, for the mechanical access, it'd be better to not have a 1' riser, because of the funky stair situation over there (as Silva741 & Tedd highlighted) so there's going to be ~2-4" of cement-reinforced foundation jutting out from under the framed wall, shown in white in the latest SketchUp. I'm concerned with that being a pretty big "leak in the aquarium" yet unable to decouple it because it would take too much space from the mechanical access hallway.

Thanks again!
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post #36 of 48 Old 08-07-2019, 03:53 AM
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A stud is pretty easy to move, or cut out before drywall goes up. I guess things are progressing so fast, and so much up in the air, that a framing plan might
not be all that doable. But that come back to the 2x4" stud count because a clip plan might only require 24" oc.

The furnace wall might be the wall that should be clipped, but you'll still have clips on the other side of the wall. At some point you are going to have to start
having a few compromises, and with the need for a 7' deep mechanical space, then that might what needs to happen.

I like a stair that is at least close to being square, but it's a home theater and you could host some RGB and aluminum extrusions to lit the steps. I don't know what
your lighting plans are, but if there's a zoned lighting controller involved, then step lighting and low lights could offer a safe way to move about a darkened room, with
but a click of a remote's button. (The aluminum extrusions are also conveniently shallow.)

Could disguising the foundation, be as simple as running those walls right up to the screen wall, and having a stage between those straight lines, and figure out how the
seating area step could be accommodated. If the sightlines work, maybe it's just raise the front row seating level.

I expect code will want a platform covering the swing of the door, into the mechanical space.
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post #37 of 48 Old 08-07-2019, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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So I got in after cement was poured and finally have better measurements of everything. I've updated to ~1" accuracy. I made a SketchUp of the dimensions to better visualize the shoulder (highlighted in red) and attached a photo of what it looks like in person.

I don't know how to sound control that shoulder. If I extend the wall all the way to the screen wall, and leave 3' of space on the other side of it (for passageway), then the final theater width ends up being ~13'3", which seems awfully narrow.

I was thinking of building a riser above it, all the way across to the end of the chimney (similar to my last design), and trying to cover it with a flooring cover / OSB layers, that way I could use the maximum width of the room. The framing wall was going to be built ON the shoulder, all the way across, but then how do I control sound going to the vertical part of the shoulder, under the wall and riser? Also, there will be at least some of it peaking out on the other side of the chimney, entering the mechanical area, because I need that space for a 3' passageway into the mechanicals.

Any thoughts?
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post #38 of 48 Old 08-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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frame on top of the shoulder at the very edge, then add isolation clips for a clip and channel attachement of the drywall. You can run the bottom piece of channel with the clips anchored to the shoulder with cement screw fasteners.


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post #39 of 48 Old 08-12-2019, 09:47 PM - Thread Starter
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frame on top of the shoulder at the very edge, then add isolation clips for a clip and channel attachement of the drywall. You can run the bottom piece of channel with the clips anchored to the shoulder with cement screw fasteners.
After consulting with Jeff, I think we put together a good plan. I've updated the SketchUp to the latest plan:

1) The chimney wall will have 2x4 framing along the edge of the cement, then use clips and channels to isolate drywallx2, except for where the chimney bumps into the room. In this spot, the framing will stay 1" from the chimney, use clips and channels + drywallx2, but the shoulder floor will be isolated by an underlay and then OSB/wood covering, to treat it as if it was more of the floor. Of note, the joists are running across the narrow width of the room and they cannot use the chimney as structural support, so the framing here must be the full height of the room.

2) To mask the bump-out of the chimney and maximize the usable width of the room, I'm currently looking at building a ~9" deep shelf above the chimney shoulder. To be used for game wireless controllers, game systems with wired controllers, popcorn/drinks, decorations, etc.

3) The other 3 walls will be 16" OC framing built 1" away from the cement block walls, isolated by placing underlay under the 2x4 framing, building 1" away from the above joists, then using IB3 clips to attach to the above joists at ends and every 48", then attach 2xdrywall to these walls. Plan to figure out where I'd like in-wall speakers to leave 16" spaces where I plan to place them eventually.

4) The wall separating the mechanicals and the screen/speaker cavity will be a staggered 2x4 stud wall, 6" wide, planning studs each to be 6" separated (12" apart on each side of the wall), then attaching drywall to each side. I think we were planning 2x layers on theater side and 1x layer on mechanical side.

5) Modify screen wall to be AT screen instead of baffle wall, then add acoustic treatments surrounding the behind-screen speakers to resist reflections. This is to simplify design a bit and to help decrease a bass dead spot in the middle of the room where the seating would have been relative to the rigid walls in the front and back (22' wide room, primary seating was exactly 11' center). Now the room should be more like 24' from rigid front/back walls and seating ~13' away from front rigid wall.

6) Debating whether to add strips of 5/8" drywall between the joists of the ceiling attached to the above subfloor to deaden footfalls (as shown here https://www.soundproofingcompany.com...dproof-ceiling). My contractor gave a price for doing this work and it is significant for us. Debating how much this would decrease footfalls. It will be a hardwood floor above the surface. My previous plan was fiberglass insulation, RSIC-1 clips & channels, 5/8" OSB, green glue, 5/8" drywall.

7) Swapped door to opposite side of mechanical wall because that will be the sound controlled wall. The door-sized opening next to the screen will be potentially filled with a cloth-covered frame to hide the space and have a flat front wall.

8) The AV closet is now only a maximum of 18" deep (without a front enclosing material). I think I'll need to relocate the main AV rack to behind the screen for the receiver, amps, UPS, and things I don't need to access frequently (HTPC, TIVO?). But I'm thinking of still building a small closet for video games and peripherals. Specifically, things like Switch, 4k UHD player, PS4, etc will need to be accessed frequently to insert media, so it'd be nice to not need to go behind the screen every time.


Progress:
1) I've run the framing plans by my contractor and we're figuring out details.

2) I stopped by tractor supply co and picked up 15 sheets of 4x6' 3/4" horse stall mats, which was the payload capacity of my van. This should be enough to do the outer framing walls and I'll try to get the rest when I can next week. They're pretty heavy, but I think they'd survive falling into the basement space, so I just need to drag them over and drop them in.


Current concerns:
1) Is the cost of the drywall strips to decrease footfall noise worth it??

2) Can I figure out everything for the ceiling so contractors can just place correct materials instead of placeholder drywall on ceiling to satisfy inspector? I'm pretty close to figuring out exactly where I'd like everything in the ceiling. I could potentially get wires in the right place for atmos speakers and get a conduit run between AV rack and projector location. Then I could have the contractors place up the real ceiling instead of having to remove the drywall (and reuse it??) just to access in the future.

3) AV rack and projector location? I'm concerned with the AV rack being in the "lobby" because that's a lot of wall to go through (cement block +/- chimney/closets) for video game controllers and I'm worried about signal. My wife hated the idea of everything being in the mechanical room because it'd be annoying to use any physical media. So now I'm trying a split with loud/big stuff in mechanicals area but game/media stuff in small closet inside theater.

4) If the contractors have to put a drywall layer on ceiling to satisfy code (and OSB hidden above that, since I was planning 1x OSB layer then 1x drywall layer), does that mean I ALSO would need to do one of the wall drywall layers to be able to make the tight ceiling-wall seam intersection (ala https://www.soundproofingcompany.com...intersection)?

Future research:
1) Plan HVAC route
2) Soffit design
3) Lighting plan (tentatively planning sconce lights vs in-soffit lights)
4) How to sound-isolate in-wall surround speakers
5) Make SketchUp of framing plan to show contractors exactly what I want?

Thanks Jeff for the great help and everybody for thoughts or suggestions too!
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post #40 of 48 Old 08-12-2019, 10:12 PM
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Enjoyed reading through your planning stages so far. I wish I could have had the depth to do a bar behind the rear seats. I still ended up with enough room back there to put some bar stools for overflow seating, but not a table top. I elevated my side and rear surrounds, but angled them slightly down towards the seats. I'm very happy with the sound, but I think it is lacking in a few places and I'm working on acoustic panels now to hopefully tune it in better. I did treat the wall behind the front speakers with OC703 boards.

I also went with a 16:9 screen and use masking panels for the widescreen movies. The wife doesn't mind the gray bars on the top and bottom, but it bothers me. The masking panels clean it up nicely and I get the best of both worlds.

I had width issues as well, so I went with 4 loveseats instead of individual theater seats. It's nice to be able to lay down across them as well as be reclined.

I may have missed it in a past post, but have you considered looking at switching the screen wall to where the seating would be back by the furnace room? I think I adjusted my room layout a dozen times before we finally settled on something.
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post #41 of 48 Old 08-13-2019, 04:50 AM
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ran the numbers for your 130 inch wide screen.
The current crop of consumer level 4K projectors from Sony, JVC, and Epson can be positioned with the lens to screen distance of 14'9" to 19' 11". Some closer and some further but if you don't know which this is the common ground. Allow a few inches for a margin of error.

Looks like you can position it directly over the back of the 2nd row of seating.
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post #42 of 48 Old 08-13-2019, 07:37 AM
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"2) I stopped by tractor supply co and picked up 15 sheets of 4x6' 3/4" horse stall mats, which was the payload capacity of my van. This should be enough to do the outer framing walls and I'll try to get the rest when I can next week. They're pretty heavy, but I think they'd survive falling into the basement space, so I just need to drag them over and drop them in."

Are you doing the entire floor?
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post #43 of 48 Old 08-13-2019, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Side note: all of your build threads are jaw-droppingly incredible. Amazing work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbowman View Post
I may have missed it in a past post, but have you considered looking at switching the screen wall to where the seating would be back by the furnace room? I think I adjusted my room layout a dozen times before we finally settled on something.
Thanks for the suggestions!

Ya, I'm a little bummed to lose the third row of something cool (originally was supposed to be a work-out area, then an overflow bar area for football games) but I'm much happier with maximizing the theater for what I'll be using it for most of the times: movies and games.

Glad to hear the double loveseats arrangement is working for you. I noticed the width of your set seems to be a bit wider than what I was thinking of going with. I think yours is around 120", but the Octane XS300 I'm considering is 107" wide to allow a 3' aisle. Can you imagine your double loveseat being a foot less wide or are the seats pretty spacious?

I did try a design with flipping the theater (and tried several places to put mechanicals) and settled on the current design. The problem with flipping the theater (and leaving mechanicals where they are) is the new screen wall is too close to where the entry door would be, so I couldn't leave space for speakers behind an AT screen.

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ran the numbers for your 130 inch wide screen.
The current crop of consumer level 4K projectors from Sony, JVC, and Epson can be positioned with the lens to screen distance of 14'9" to 19' 11". Some closer and some further but if you don't know which this is the common ground. Allow a few inches for a margin of error.

Looks like you can position it directly over the back of the 2nd row of seating.
Thanks for doing that! I tried replicating this by using the top 10 4k projectors on projectorcentral.com under 10k and found the range was something like 15-22' to fit everything. I'll probably aim for a conduit around 18', so I can have a lens to screen distance of ~17', right above the 2nd row seating, like you suggested.

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"2) I stopped by tractor supply co and picked up 15 sheets of 4x6' 3/4" horse stall mats, which was the payload capacity of my van. This should be enough to do the outer framing walls and I'll try to get the rest when I can next week. They're pretty heavy, but I think they'd survive falling into the basement space, so I just need to drag them over and drop them in."

Are you doing the entire floor?
Yes, that's the plan. I believe it should then act as a moisture barrier for the cement slab so I can lay OSB directly on it.

Thanks everybody!
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post #44 of 48 Old 08-13-2019, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
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Glad to hear the double loveseats arrangement is working for you. I noticed the width of your set seems to be a bit wider than what I was thinking of going with. I think yours is around 120", but the Octane XS300 I'm considering is 107" wide to allow a 3' aisle. Can you imagine your double loveseat being a foot less wide or are the seats pretty spacious?
If I would have never planted my butt in these seats, I might be okay with some that are slightly narrower. These are very spacious seats. I think I'd be disappointed to have something smaller now that I've sat in these though.

My single hallway is about 37" wide, which is plenty. I could see going 6" or so narrower on the aisle, but that's about it since my side surrounds stick out. If they were flush mounted to the wall or sunk in, 30" aisles would be plenty.
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Jerry
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DIY In Progress Home Theater Build: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...tic-build.html
Star Ceiling Build: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...am-boards.html
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post #45 of 48 Old 08-14-2019, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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OKAY NEW PLAN.

Had a bunch of talks with contractors and trying to make the plan happen and it's just getting too expensive, they were uncomfortable/unfamiliar with a lot of the steps I wanted to do, and the timeline isn't fitting. So, now we're doing only what we need to do right now. Whew. Actually a relief because I'm exhausted at the moment and having trouble keeping up with everything.

This will be:
1) Installing 2 x 5/8" strips of drywall between ceiling joists, green glue between layers, and screwed in with drywall screws.
2) They will get additional cheap 1/2" drywall and use that to cover whatever they need to of the ceiling for code. Then I can just rip it all out in the future when actually making the theater, instead of trying to reuse the 5/8" drywall I've got down there already.
3) Getting remaining bulky material into basement.
4) They already had to do some framing for the area right in front of the chimney because it needed to structurally support the joists. All other framing will be on hold for a while. Might still have them frame the door.
5) Installing furnace and HVAC ducts. I do still need to figure out where and how I want the ducts to go. The furnace will just be installed on the slab. I think that'll be fine.

Updated concerns list:
1) Do I still need to place the AV-rack-to-projector conduit? I think it will be a straight run from the projector hanging spot to the AV rack which will be (tentatively) behind the screen wall in the mechanicals area. It would need to be drilled through a bunch of joists, I think, but I'm hoping to avoid any HVAC in the way, so maybe I can just do that later.
2) HVAC routing and eventual soffit design. I need to read about this and figure out what to do here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticbowman View Post
If I would have never planted my butt in these seats, I might be okay with some that are slightly narrower. These are very spacious seats. I think I'd be disappointed to have something smaller now that I've sat in these though.

My single hallway is about 37" wide, which is plenty. I could see going 6" or so narrower on the aisle, but that's about it since my side surrounds stick out. If they were flush mounted to the wall or sunk in, 30" aisles would be plenty.
I'm trying to keep at least one walkway 36" because it's safest to satisfy inspectors in the future (access to furnace behind theater area). I'm already looking at eating into one walkway to ~27" to manage that weird chimney thing, but I'd really like to keep them as big as possible.

That's actually reassuring that you find your seats to be very spacious! My wife and I are pretty small, so most seats feel plenty big or even too big. Cozier/narrow seats are just fine for us, and the Octane XS300 I was eyeing looks a lot more comfy than the more commercial classic theater style seats that could fit in this space!
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post #46 of 48 Old 08-15-2019, 02:58 AM
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Is the av rack deep enough at 18"? Even something like a Middle Atlantic Slim5 is something like 20 1/8" square.

I guess you could have it stick out of the wall 2", and trim it out nicely with a wood surround though.
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post #47 of 48 Old 08-15-2019, 05:24 AM
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Good catch, 18 may not be deep enough depending on rack and equipment. In my DIY rack the biggest item an amp is 18 inches deep plus all the speaker wires hanging out the back. It needs 21-22 inches total.
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post #48 of 48 Old 08-15-2019, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Is the av rack deep enough at 18"? Even something like a Middle Atlantic Slim5 is something like 20 1/8" square.

I guess you could have it stick out of the wall 2", and trim it out nicely with a wood surround though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Good catch, 18 may not be deep enough depending on rack and equipment. In my DIY rack the biggest item an amp is 18 inches deep plus all the speaker wires hanging out the back. It needs 21-22 inches total.
I'm tentatively looking at having 2 AV locations:
1. The 18" space (near the entry door) would be for things that need to be accessed frequently: 4K UHD player, video game systems, etc. In my current theater arrangement, all of this is being housed on a shelving unit that is only 16" deep and they fit very comfortably, so I think I can make the space work for them. This location would have an HDMI switch that would then send a single HDMI to...
2. The main AV rack, located in the mechanicals room, behind the screen. This would house receiver, amps, UPS, HTPC, etc. Anything that doesn't need to be accessed frequently and is too big to fit in the 1st location.

So I'd need a single conduit between the main AV rack and the projector location.
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