Wolfden HT from Hungary - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 17 Old 12-03-2018, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Wolfden HT from Hungary

Dear all,

First of all, I would like to introduce myself. I am Zoltan, a middle aged, diy and movie enthusiastic guy from Hungary (Middle Europe ).
After years of lurking, reading and salvaging info from this absolute top-notch forum, the time has arrived for me as well, when I can build my dedicated home theater room in my house's basement.
I have now a temporary movie room on my first floor with the following AV equipment (See the next comment.):

Old equipment list:
Ampifier : Pioner VSX-923 7.2
Projector: Optoma HD33
Screen: 100" EliteScreen
Speakers: 5.1 Klipsch
Sub: R-12SW
LR: R-28
C: R-25C
Surround: R-14S

New equipment list, updated on 20.12.2019

Receiver: Denon avr-x4500h
Projector: Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA (2560x1600)
Screen: 146” Screenline, Microperforated – F.P. – gain 1.0
Speakers: K.C.S.
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF)
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX)
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)
Klotz cables, xlr

My plan is to diy build a dedicated room in my basement, move and use the current equipment in the first phase.
Then in the second one, I would like to upgrade the AV stuff to 7.2.4 atmos system, the 100" screen to 110 or 120" if it is possible and the amplifier to one with 4K and atmos support.
The would-be room is a bare room with walls, floor and ceiling made of cement and ceramic bricks with depth of 36-40 cm. See the next comment.
Here I would like to apologize for using metric measurement system, in Hungary the inches and feet are totally non existent and unfamiliar, only heard about in Hollywood blockbusters !
Thus, please forgive me my ignorance, hopefully it will not cause too much inconvenience for You!

The basement room has got the following dimensions without any touch of treatment:
Width: 410 cm, length: 650 cm and height: 236 cm

Due to some piping on the walls and the room in room wood framing with osb and drywall layers, the new available net dimensions for the room will be approximately as follows:
Width: 374 cm, length: 612 cm and height: 230 cm

I created a preliminary sketch with Sketchup for your verification. This includes the would-be 7.2.4 speaker system, 120" screen, two rows of couches with the far one on a riser.
There are some basic acoustical treatments as bass traps and some absorbers.

Firstly, I need your help with the basic concept with spacing and locations for things. I attached two screenshot for the 2 projectors with the throw distances, sizes and light outputs as a proof of concept.
Please, back me up with the speaker locations, seating position and the rightness in general about my idea.
Unfortunately, the brutto height is 236 cm right now. I plan to use on the ceiling 5 cm of rockwool of the densest type (Rockwool Airrock XD with 90kg/m3) between 2 cm height rubber mounts and 3 cm of lath on which 12 mm of drywall as covering.
On the floor, my plan is to use some rubber carpet with 2-3 mm thickness, plus carpet.
So I need your expert advise how can I insulate floor and ceiling with the max available height ?!
The max height for the riser would be 30 cm under the couch, with a mini riser around it with 18 cm height (15 cm board and 2 osb layer 3 cm)
On the side walls I plan to use wooden framing made of 5x10 boards with some fluffy rockwool insulation in between. Inside is 15 mm OSB as first layer and 12 mm Blue rigips (special drywall for sound proofing in Hungary or in Europe) drywall second layer, then some acoustical treatment and finally some A/T material on frames.
The equipment rack will be outside of the room itself. What can't be modified is the locations of the doors, the height of the room and the location of the air conditioner, radiator and the ventilation.
Because the build is not started yet, I am open to any advise, recommendation from You.
I will attach some shots of the would be room in the next comments.

I am looking for any comment and advise.

Thank You any and all piece of info in advance !

Zoltan
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Last edited by Zoltan Farkas; 12-20-2019 at 06:39 AM.
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-03-2018, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the shots about the would-be room
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post #3 of 17 Old 12-03-2018, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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And here is the current and temporary room from which I would like to move to the would-be dedicated one.
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-03-2018, 11:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello


I attached the sketches with inches and feet for easier understanding!
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Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)
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post #5 of 17 Old 12-04-2018, 05:25 AM
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It looks like you could easily flip the room 180 degrees and enter between the screen and the first row seating, the advantage is you could then build the seating riser and steps without concern for leaving a walkway for the door. You could also add another seat to the back row if you think you might want to go from 5 to 6 seats. I also like entering the room without feeling cramped by immediately bumping into a step and riser.
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Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 12-04-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-04-2018, 06:04 AM
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Thanks for the metric conversion. It looks like you have a pretty low ceiling which makes Atmos a bit challenging. I am in the same boat on that. I notice your side and rear speakers are mounted near the ceiling in your sketches. Ideally you would like to lower them so the tweeters are just above ear height. Mounting them high will conflict with your atoms height channels. BTW my father is 100% Hungarian.

James
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-04-2018, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
It looks like you could easily flip the room 180 degrees and enter between the screen and the first row seating, the advantage is you could then build the seating riser and steps without concern for leaving a walkway for the door. You could also add another seat to the back row if you think you might want to go from 5 to 6 seats. I also like entering the room without feeling cramped by immediately bumping into a step and riser.

Hello Big,


Thanks for your comment. Unfortunately, because of the air conditioning and ventilation I can't swap the layout. Where they are right now, that's the only side where they can enter the room the easiest and most economical way. Regarding the seating, the schema is reflecting, by and large, the current equipment I have, thus the two couches as well, which I would like to use for the time being Later I would like to swap them for some more serious seating. By the way, the main entry point is by the screen. Believe me that I scratched my head a hell of time upon this topic and this seems to be the most suitable for my location. Thanks for the idea anyway ! I am looking forward more ones !
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post #8 of 17 Old 12-04-2018, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kngelv View Post
Thanks for the metric conversion. It looks like you have a pretty low ceiling which makes Atmos a bit challenging. I am in the same boat on that. I notice your side and rear speakers are mounted near the ceiling in your sketches. Ideally you would like to lower them so the tweeters are just above ear height. Mounting them high will conflict with your atoms height channels. BTW my father is 100% Hungarian.

James

Thanks for your chiming in. I plan to change the sketch upon your recommendations. I will lower the rear and surround ones. Because of the low ceiling, which might be 7' 6" ( around 230 cm) at the best, where there is no riser, I can't have in-ceiling atmos speakers. What leaves me with two other options. First, speakers on the false columns near the ceiling, second is speakers attached to ceiling itself. I am waiting for any suggestion or recommendation regarding this issue and the low ceiling height. How can I handle it the most effective way ?!


Other, where is your father from, which town?



See ya, Zoltan
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post #9 of 17 Old 06-18-2019, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello

I visited the forum long time ago, because I have been busy with building my home theater.
Here there are some shots about my current state. If anybody is interested in the steps taken, just notify me and I will upload some more with details

Zoltán
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post #10 of 17 Old 12-20-2019, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Some progress I have done since my last post
Design and LCR section
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Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)

Last edited by Zoltan Farkas; 12-20-2019 at 06:33 AM.
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post #11 of 17 Old 12-30-2019, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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New updates
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Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)

Last edited by Zoltan Farkas; 12-30-2019 at 02:58 PM.
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post #12 of 17 Old 04-21-2020, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Coming around


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Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)
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post #13 of 17 Old 04-21-2020, 03:37 AM
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That looks great - love the rock features
Have you decided to drop the Atmos idea ?
And whats with the 4 extra speakers in the rear wall ??
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-21-2020, 07:31 PM
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I like the hardware !! Very nicely put together. The mains, and the surrounds have very nice specifications. I looked for a dealer, but not able to locate any here in the US.


I'd be interested in seeing some REW scans of your room. I'm sure it pressurizes really easy with 12" woofers in the surrounds. The rock walls may pose some issues for you, but with the amount of direct response, I'm not sure it would matter much.

HT1.0 | HT2.05 | Bass EQ for Filtered Movies
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post #15 of 17 Old 04-23-2020, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterida View Post
That looks great - love the rock features
Have you decided to drop the Atmos idea ?
And whats with the 4 extra speakers in the rear wall ??
I dropped the original atmos idea simply because of the room's ceiling height. I chose the KCS pro speakers which are really big and they are not for the ceiling as You can see from the shots. Actually I visited a home cinema in Hungary where they were hanged on the ceiling, they sounded very ok, but looked not so well
I had an offer for the 10 pcs of SR12 surrounds, 3 LCRs and 1 sub in the amount of 900 euro, thus I certainly bought them. That's why I have 2 pairs of sourrounds, 1 for each rows, 1 pair of back surround, 1 pair of rear heights and 1 pair of front heights. I actually did testing with hanging 1 pair of them as atmos in the back, but I could not make any difference with my current equipment.
Anyway I did the cabling for the atmos positions, but I do not think I will ever use in this room.
This configuration of speakers is compatible for atmos, dts-x and auro3d without any tampering with the avr and cables, I usually use auromatic3d and neuralx. They sound very well.

Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)
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post #16 of 17 Old 04-23-2020, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
I like the hardware !! Very nicely put together. The mains, and the surrounds have very nice specifications. I looked for a dealer, but not able to locate any here in the US.


I'd be interested in seeing some REW scans of your room. I'm sure it pressurizes really easy with 12" woofers in the surrounds. The rock walls may pose some issues for you, but with the amount of direct response, I'm not sure it would matter much.

I will post rew scans and wait some advices in the future. They are not rocks, they are gypsum.
They really do pressurization of the room very well. I am satisfied with them.

Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-03-2020, 05:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I did some measurements with REW, and realised that the RT60 value is 150 ms from 3-4-500 hz and above on all of the channels except the sub. More details follows.
The room dimensions are width : 374 cm, height: 230 cm and length: 612 cm.
The floor is carpet and 6 mm rubber floor. Ceiling is halltex soundproofing tiles.
Walls are made of 10 cm rockwool 70 kg/m3. one layer of Osb and one layer of blue accoustic gypsum sheet. Behind the at screen rockwool absorption panels.
I will attach pics about the left front chanel, but the RT60 value is basically the same for all of them. Finally I will include the whole rew file , maybe it will be useful for somebody willing to help me !
I need your help to decide how badly is dampened my room, and how can I improve the above mentioned RT60 value. Around the side walls I have not installed any treatments, so I am sure I will have to install some. In the first run, I want to install some reflective surfaces on the sidewalls, like plywood, to increase the total amount of reflective surfaces. Please, advise me.

Thanks a lot in advance for your prompt help !

BR,

Zoltán
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Denon avr-x4500h 11.2 Speakers: K.C.S.
Digital Projection dVision 35 WQXGA with 146” Screenline, Microperforated
LCR: 3 * S-2000 (C-115-PLF) Crown CDi 4/300
Surround: 10 * SR-12-N (THX) Crown 1002, 1502
Sub: Behringer NX3000D - 2 * C-218-A (THX)
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