RSIC 1 Door Gap Question - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 34 Old 02-13-2019, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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RSIC 1 Door Gap Question

Man, this is the place to be.
All the questions I've had so far have had all the answers found on this forum..
On to my question I suppose...
I'm building out a home studio/listening room. I've framed out the walls and am going the rsic-1 double 5/8" sheetrock route.
Looks like there's going to be a pretty significant gap between the new wall and the existing door and window already in the room.
What do you proz do about this gap? We're talking the window and doorframe essentially being flush with the framing-type of gap.
From what I'm planning on, the total gap between the framing, rsic clip, and sheetrock will be 2 3/4" or so.
Thoughts?
Oh and thank you all for the help so far. Just from reading, it's amazing!
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-14-2019, 12:50 AM
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Jamb extensions, and a similar treatment on the window. On the window you may need to cut a new sill if you want the horns to sit proud of the finished drywall

If you were building from scratch you would use wider door jambs and window bits . So your choice is to sister on pieces of wood to make it fit properly or replace all the pieces that are now too narrow to reach. Sometimes deconstructing and rebuilding all the window trim molding is easier than putting on extensions.

Close up photos of what you have would help us be more specific. I think you need a history of 5 posts to include a photo.

You may want to watch some videos of window molding installation to get an idea how the pieces are measured and cut. I know the first time I did a window I watched a This Old House video. The sill with horns is cut and installed first, then the sides and top, last the pieces of case molding goes on the surface of the drywall. A window typically has 10 (if you count the returns on the ends of the piece of molding under the lip of the sill) pieces of molding. If you study what they are you can figure out how to just re do it. If you are careful you can reuse 6 of the 10. Four need to be made wider.

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post #3 of 34 Old 02-14-2019, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Jeff! I feel pretty lucky the resident pro got back to me so quickly
But seriously, I've seen your builds. Based my ideas off of stuff you've done/advice you've given etc..
Supplies specifically, this space is too small to be able to do anything special with.
So... This space is being built in 3/4's worth of my attached garage. With money in mind, this was probably going to be the cheapest/easiest route to go.
There is a stairway to a bedroom above- I framed in a wall to make a closet to separate that area.
This is a small space, literally and figuratively. Specifically a low ceiling. Total square footage is 156.68.
I'm about to order the clips and am wondering if it would be worth it to order the "low profile" ones.
Do these low profile clips work as well as the standard rsic-1?
I'm going to attemp to attach some pano and standard photos of the problem areas-real difficult space.. You shall see
PS, please ignore my frugality with the sheetrock in the closet there, lessons learned lol.
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post #4 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 07:27 AM
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If I understand what you are asking, I used RSIC-1 for my low ceiling and did this. You just have to be extra careful during drywall installation not to miss the channel and hit the joist and short circuit the whole thing.

You're lucky...I couldn't find any pictures of this method and puzzled it out with a LOT consults from BIG.
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post #5 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post
If I understand what you are asking, I used RSIC-1 for my low ceiling and did this. You just have to be extra careful during drywall installation not to miss the channel and hit the joist and short circuit the whole thing.

You're lucky...I couldn't find any pictures of this method and puzzled it out with a LOT consults from BIG.
Wow, didn't know you could use them like that. I'm doing double 5/8 so I'm assuming I'll need to "up" the amount of these specific clips to handle the weight.
Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Is this as effective as a regular install? I thought there needed to be a void between the sheetrock and the joists/insulation?
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post #6 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 07:58 AM
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Wow, didn't know you could use them like that. I'm doing double 5/8 so I'm assuming I'll need to "up" the amount of these specific clips to handle the weight.
Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Is this as effective as a regular install? I thought there needed to be a void between the sheetrock and the joists/insulation?
1/2 inch air gap is all you need to mitigate vibration transfer. I haven’t used the RISC brand clips but most clips are designed for a 25-30 lb load per clip. On a double drywall ceiling that equates to channels spaced 24 inches apart and clips 48 inch apart spacing. Less where you need to stagger the clips in utilize all the joists.

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post #7 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 08:12 AM
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You mount the clip to the block then mount the block so that the bottom of the channel hangs about about 1/2" below the joist. So, yes, there is a void between the drywall and the joists. I didn't change the number of clips...the weight of the drywall is the same regardless of how the clip/channel is mounted. Ultimately, you end up with the same clip pattern, it's just turned 90 degrees because the channels run parallel to the joists instead of perpendicular.

When I did mine, I initially mounted the clips to the blocks using only the longer slots and left the screws slight loose. Once they were all mounted and the channel was attached, I was able to make enough adjustments to level them and then lock the clip down through one of the holes. THEN go back tighten up the screws in the slots and run in as many screws as necessary into each of the clips (I think I ran 4 in each).

You will want to find the low spot of the joists in the room. You can do that with a couple of long lines and the clip-on line levels (only a couple $s each at the big boxes) criss-crossed through the room. If you have 3 or 4 foot level, you can spot check a couple of spot to get an initial idea if any are really off and how far down to start your lines.

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post #8 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 08:25 AM
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Found a pic. As you can see, I mounted all the clip to the blocks first.
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-15-2019, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Found a pic. As you can see, I mounted all the clip to the blocks first.
Beautiful! Thank you, that's definitely how I want to hang this sheetrock.
I was just thinking about doing the walls this way as well, but I realized the foundation protrudes out and I'd essentially have to set the sheetrock on top of the lip of the foundation if that makes any sense? It would be difficult if not impossible to get a good seal between the lip and the bottom of the wall. I may try to do the problem door wall with the low profile clips if I have enough clearance. I'll post a pic of what I mean....
The doorway with my finger there sticks out about an inch and a quarter, it is not consistent, so the wall would have to "angle out".
The other picture with just the foundation is the outside wall which sticks out about 2 and a quarter inches.
I may try to get creative with the low profile clips on the wall with the doorway in it to make it easier to seal the gaps etc.
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-17-2019, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Just about to order the supplies, but I realized about half the ceiling joists in the space are not 16" oc. We're talking random numbers.
Should I ignore this and run the channel perpendicular like the walls instead of the suggested parallel?
Here's pic of what I mean. I've been running into all sorts of stuff like this in this project.
The joists don't get consistently 16" oc until the last area.
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 04:48 AM
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To run the channels recessed and parallel to the joists you would need to cut breaks in the channel where you encounter that cross bracing. A lot of extra work. If you weren’t going to recess the channel to save headroom still a lot of work to add the blocking. The alternative is to notch all that bracing so the channel doesn’t touch.

You should first measure the actual spacing of your joists, plot it on some graph paper and figure out your clip spacing and placement. My initial thought looking at your pics is that normal perpendicular channel mounting is possible if you don’t need that extra 3/4 of an inch that the method Tom used to save headroom. Tom didn’t mention that his joists were all wonky, hanging at different heights and we needed to use a laser level to sort out the height each clip should be mounted.
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post #12 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 12:02 PM
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Did you basically shoot a laser level at the correct height, then just align the clips to that?

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post #13 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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To run the channels recessed and parallel to the joists you would need to cut breaks in the channel where you encounter that cross bracing. A lot of extra work. If you weren’t going to recess the channel to save headroom still a lot of work to add the blocking. The alternative is to notch all that bracing so the channel doesn’t touch.

You should first measure the actual spacing of your joists, plot it on some graph paper and figure out your clip spacing and placement. My initial thought looking at your pics is that normal perpendicular channel mounting is possible if you don’t need that extra 3/4 of an inch that the method Tom used to save headroom. Tom didn’t mention that his joists were all wonky, hanging at different heights and we needed to use a laser level to sort out the height each clip should be mounted.
I may not have the luxury of gaining that extra 3/4" without having to seriously jimmy rig it. The spacing between the joists goes down the line as following: 14", 16", 16", 10", 17" with a doubled up 2x8, 11", 16", 16", 16", 16". This isn't even including the blocking between the joists that I'd have to deal with. Fortunately, all the joists appear to be "straight across" for the most part. There is some very slight warpage from side to side in one area, but I framed a wall against worse than that.
If I got the low profile clips and went perpendicular, I wouldn't lose any stc points, right?

I may have to screw the low profile clips directly to the joists and get that minor gain to make this slightly easier to finish.

A note I wanted to mention is that I did not do the double layer 5/8" sheetrock in between the joists as recommended. I was worried about the overall added dead load. I made this decision based on some of the construction techniques I have witnessed herein.
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post #14 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you basically shoot a laser level at the correct height, then just align the clips to that?
I bought a laser level just because I needed one in general and they are cheaper these days.
I have used it extensively for the framing. For that under stairway closet, I HAD to frame in the bottom half crooked because the entire stairway itself is not straight. I would have had to do a whole bunch of sistering to make it right for minor gains. And since this is in the garage, the floor is sloped to allow for water drainage outside making this whole process incredibly complicated.
I framed in a wall on the roll up garage door side to keep the functionality of loading things in/out. The doubled up 2x8's were bowed out pretty severely, like up to 2", towards the middle.
With all that said, I have not yet shot the laser at the interior 2x8's, but I will this afternoon.
It's looking more and more like I'm going to just have to deal with a low ceiling
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post #15 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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So, looking at the spec sheet- doesn't look like you can "turn" the clips sideways in install the furring perpendicular to the joists, is that correct?
Edit: i am referring to the low profile rsic 1 clips: https://www.tmsoundproofing.com/RSIC...file-Clip.html
hope i didn't break any rules by posting the link. I'm not a retailer/salesperson

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post #16 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 05:41 PM
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There are so many clips on the market, plenty that will work to run the channels perpendicular to the joists. You have plenty of height, not sure why you are messing with those low profile ones.

By the way the marketing picture of that clip shows the channel running perpendicular to the wall studs, which is like ceiling joists just sideways. So your first assumption is basically wrong.

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post #17 of 34 Old 02-18-2019, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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There are so many clips on the market, plenty that will work to run the channels perpendicular to the joists. You have plenty of height, not sure why you are messing with those low profile ones.

By the way the marketing picture of that clip shows the channel running perpendicular to the wall studs, which is like ceiling joists just sideways. So your first assumption is basically wrong.
Oh man. Yeah, honestly I think I'm overthinking this way too much. I guess the money involved for the supplies has me in this mindset where every single clip has to be in the exact spot otherwise I sabotage the whole project.
So, other than the paying for more clips part, does having less spacing between the joists (say I put clips and channel 10" O.C. VS the 16") have any negative effect other than financial?
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post #18 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 03:28 AM
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Channels are 24 OC with 48 inch clip spacing for double layers, 16 OC for three layers. There are a lot cheaper clips than what you are looking at, check soundproofingcompany.com, you have to call to order. Or grab A237 clips on eBay for a 75% result for a fraction of the cost.
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post #19 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 07:40 AM
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So, other than the paying for more clips part, does having less spacing between the joists (say I put clips and channel 10" O.C. VS the 16") have any negative effect other than financial?
Yes, you make the ceiling assembly more prone to transferring vibration.
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post #20 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 08:58 AM
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I may not have the luxury of gaining that extra 3/4"
I think you should be gaining more that 3/4". If you go with the clips on the underside of the joists, you have the height of the clip, the channel and the double DW. If you use the parallel method you would only have the double DW + about a 1/2" below the joists. so you only lose a little over an 1.5" in total height.
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post #21 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 09:37 AM
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An a237 clip is 1/4 inch, the channel 7/8 total 1 1/8. Recessed leaving 1/2 saves 5/8

Other clips the savings is more.
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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An a237 clip is 1/4 inch, the channel 7/8 total 1 1/8. Recessed leaving 1/2 saves 5/8

Other clips the savings is more.
I'm looking at the a106r clips. appear to be similar to the PAC product but a lot cheaper.
How on center do I have to be? Is there a decent amount of leeway as far as placement? Or does it need to be as dead-on as possible?
The only reason I am asking is due to my joist arrangement being all jacked for the most part. I'm thinking if I can get away with 'skipping' the odd joist it would be close enough.
As it sits, it would be nearly impossible to do 24" oc without sistering onto joists-although if that's what its going to take, I suppose that's what I'll have to do
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post #23 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 12:37 PM
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I don’t understand your question if you are running your channels perpendicular to the joists. In that case hitting 24 OC is a cakewalk.
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 12:58 PM
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An a237 clip is 1/4 inch, the channel 7/8 total 1 1/8. Recessed leaving 1/2 saves 5/8

Other clips the savings is more.
Fair enough. Where were those when I was building? PAC was pretty much it at the time.

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post #25 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I don’t understand your question if you are running your channels perpendicular to the joists. In that case hitting 24 OC is a cakewalk.
I'm sorry, I meant actually hanging the clips from the joists. My joists are not spaced evenly from each other, and since I'm going to run it perpendicularly, I won't be exactly 24" spaced one from the other
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 02:39 PM
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I'm sorry, I meant actually hanging the clips from the joists. My joists are not spaced evenly from each other, and since I'm going to run it perpendicularly, I won't be exactly 24" spaced one from the other
If the channel is running perpendicular - at a right angle - to the joists then you can place clips exactly 24" apart along the full length of the joist. Where you'll have to fudge a bit is the 48" spacing along the length of the channel. For that you just need to pick the next joist down. So if one joist is at 54" and another joist is at 40", put a clip on the joist at 40".

The exact spacing isn't important as long as you don't exceed 24" between channels or 48" along the channel length.
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post #27 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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If the channel is running perpendicular - at a right angle - to the joists then you can place clips exactly 24" apart along the full length of the joist. Where you'll have to fudge a bit is the 48" spacing along the length of the channel. For that you just need to pick the next joist down. So if one joist is at 54" and another joist is at 40", put a clip on the joist at 40".

The exact spacing isn't important as long as you don't exceed 24" between channels or 48" along the channel length.
This! Thank you so much, seriously!
And thank all you guys for being so patient with my noob questions.
This has been a long process, but I'm getting closer thanks to y'all
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 05:45 PM
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I'm sorry, I meant actually hanging the clips from the joists. My joists are not spaced evenly from each other, and since I'm going to run it perpendicularly, I won't be exactly 24" spaced one from the other
clips are spaced 48 inches from one another, you can do closer but I wouldn’t do more than 50
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-19-2019, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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clips are spaced 48 inches from one another, you can do closer but I wouldn’t do more than 50
According to my calculations; with channels spaced 24" apart, I only need "4.79" channels, but to get within 6" of the wall I'll need 6 channels total. This acceptable? I tried many different configurations, but this was the best I could come up with.
I'm assuming that support is important close to where the wall meets up so the ceiling doesn't sag and touch the wall
EDIT: I am also having trouble locating a clip that can support the weight-I will call that soundproofing company tomorrow unless anyone has suggestions. When I pull up the spec sheet for the clips, the design loads are significantly different than whats listed on the page. I'm doing 2 layers of 5/8", so thats a ton of weight. Want to be sure it doesn't decide to come down on top of me lol

Last edited by TCB-A\V; 02-19-2019 at 08:35 PM.
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-20-2019, 02:43 AM
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Please let Ted or John can sort out your pans. You need a channel within 6 inches of the side walls. How wide is the room? You also need to be aware that many of the spacing diagrams floating around on the web are incorrect for ceilings.

You put up the first channel near the edge, the next one should be with the center at exactly 24 1/2 inches from the wall framing. Each addional channel 24 OC from there. That allows you to land the edges of the drywall and not have the ceiling sheets touch the wall framing.

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 02-20-2019 at 04:01 AM.
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