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post #31 of 50 Old 03-10-2019, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Loud and clear -- thanks BIG!

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post #32 of 50 Old 03-10-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Thinking about subwoofer amplifiers -- I had an iNuke 6000D driving two UM18-22 Cubes, and it worked fine...until it stopped working. When it was working, one channel was two clicks hotter than the other, and then there was the fan noise...I got rid of it. I love knowing that I had power to spare, even if the numbers were largely fluffed:

Without that iNuke amp anymore, I decided to hook up my two 18" UM18-22 sealed cubes to one of my Crown XLS 1002 amps. I used the Bandpass setting to keep everything going to the sub above 19Hz and also below 80Hz. I ran Audyssey setup again through my Marantz 7702 preamp, and I was expecting the unit to jack up the internal gain output a ton to get sound out of the Crown/subs. To my surprise, they worked fine, and for an amp that is "only" rated at 2x350W @ 4ohms - it didn't skip a beat over what I was hearing from the iNuke 6000D. I even turned the Marantz source and amp knobs up to uncomfortable levels where I could feel the pressure and the walls seemed to be shaking. No distortion -- all on an XLS 1002 amp with two 18" UM18-22 sealed cubes.

So -- is there any REAL WORLD need to have an iNuke that can push 2000W @ 4ohms? That kind of burst would almost max out a circuit breaker, and the lower continuous wattage would still melt my face off if we ACTUALLY used that amount of power.

Aside from the constant AVS peer pressure to have MOAR POWER and bass, what is a reasonable amount of power to expect to be needed to drive 18" subs? Yes, there are a million variables, but I would question whether we need to have amps that truly put out more than 1000W/channel @ 4ohms. Preamps can raise the signal volume relative to the other channel outputs, and I don't think we are really gaining anything by promoting a Bugatti when the speed limit keeps even a Camry at bay.

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post #33 of 50 Old 03-11-2019, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought I would have ignited a small fire with the Behringer vs Crown (and over-watting) our systems!

I was able to pick up two new/sealed Crown XLS2002 amps for $349 each on eBay - what a steal!

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post #34 of 50 Old 03-25-2019, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Question for everyone on which walls need to be treated:

1. Back wall has a theater equipment rack room (4' deep) and then a wall, and then my utility/furnace room
2. One long side wall divides the theater from the rest of the basement area
3. The other long side is the concrete foundation wall to the exterior
4. Front wall is also concrete foundation level to the outside
5. Ceiling is below dining room and my wife's office

I'm fully planning to do DD+GG on the back, 1 side, and ceiling. Is there any real value in doing Green Glue on the two sides that go into the exterior ground? I know the "don't half-a$$ it" response -- but I'm wondering from a scientific perspective if there is any added benefit to using Green Glue on those walls that face outside underground. I was planning to do two 5/8" drywall layers, but no GG on those sections.

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post #35 of 50 Old 06-25-2019, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Partial framing now. Two questions:

1. There is an area that juts out (floor above has a bay window) and I was planning to frame straight across and not do extra mass/fill in the extended area. If the framing will be the area 36" behind the screen, do I need to do double drywall, clips/channel etc.? Same question for the longer side that goes up against the outside house wall. How much does it matter if it's going into a concrete wall and I'm not worried about neighbors?

2. There is an HVAC line (two actually) that have to be on the left side of the theater. I plan to build a bulkhead around them -- 36" out and 13" tall. How have you guys drywalled your bulkheads? DD+GG? Clips/channel? The HVAC is screwed to the ceiling joists so there isn't a way to decouple it from the floor above. So, would I try to find some crazy way of doing clips on the framing/bulkheads around the HVAC lines? Or call it a day with DD+GG?
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post #36 of 50 Old 06-25-2019, 07:48 PM
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the concrete and framed wall will channel sound up to the joist space and the rooms above. If that is a concern keep as much sound inside the theater as possible by building massive, damped isolated walls. It is not a neighbor issue.
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post #37 of 50 Old 06-25-2019, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks BIG. The plan is for clips/channel/DD+GG on the left and right walls and the ceiling. The bulkheads make doing clips/channel a lot harder so I wasn't sure if on those I could just keep it simple and go DD+GG, given that everywhere else will be on clips/channel/DD+GG.

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post #38 of 50 Old 06-25-2019, 08:08 PM
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you can hang a decoupled soffit off the double layer drywal clip and channel walls and ceiling, Avoid framing under the ducts instead span the bottom with a layer of hardwood plywood, GG and drywall. That will save you at least 1 1/2 inches of headroom. It is hard to tell from the picture if you have any room behind the ducts to the framing, if not it becomes complicated but not impossible. Let me know if you need a sketch on how to do it.
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post #39 of 50 Old 06-29-2019, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi gang -- quick questions about clips/channel:

1. Should the hat channels that intersect not touch each other? My guess is no, but just wanted other thoughts.
2. In the corners of the room, the studs aren't ideally placed so in many cases, it is easier to do the last full vertical row of clips before the very last stud. Is it really necessary to have the very last stud be the one that has clips all the way up? Some places have a full 16", others, 12", others 6".
3. Drywall screws: I am screwing into the bottom of TJIs, which are 1-1/4 thick, so with the head, I got 1-5/8 screws, #8 , coarse threads. I couldn't find that flavor at HD in "drywall screws" (#8 screws start at 2") but I found a slightly more expensive box of "construction screws" that seemed similar enough. Is there any real world difference in this versus traditional drywall screws?
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post #40 of 50 Old 06-29-2019, 09:56 AM
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you don't want them touching in the corners. They can squeak. You also don't want the end touching the adjacent perpendicular stud, that will transfer vibration.
I often add an additional stud near the corner to deal with the cramped situations, the other option is to stagger the channels vertically. Offset one 3 inches up the other 3 inches down.
Drywall screws aren't the best choice for attaching clips, I use Deckmate screws.
In your one picture you could have put at least one clip in the inside corner rather than letting the whole corner flop around. then alternate which side gets clipped going up the wall. Better to toe screw in another stud 4-5 inches to the right of the one in the corner. Then both ends are secured.




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post #41 of 50 Old 06-29-2019, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Drywall screws aren't the best choice for attaching clips, I use Deckmate screws.
Any that you recommend for going into the ceiling TJIs? I've never screwed into those before so I'm not sure what happens if it goes past the 1-1/4 wood portion and into the skinny section.

Size: #8 ?
Length: #1-1 /4?
Threads: Course?

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post #42 of 50 Old 06-29-2019, 12:09 PM
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you are right once you get past the lumber any part of the screw in the web is useless so just use 1 1/4 to 1/1/2 inch screws. Also if you use the star drive head screws and an impact driver the screws will go in a lot easier than struggling with Phillips head screws. That bottom piece of laminated wood can be dense and hard to drill into, the impact driver makes it a cake walk.
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post #43 of 50 Old 06-30-2019, 08:13 AM
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Like Big said if you don't have an impact driver it is money well spent.

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post #44 of 50 Old 06-30-2019, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha! Guys, I wasn't using a hand screwdriver! I picked up a nice set of Dewalt 20V tools a few years back and they have been rock solid.

It's been a while since I've drilled anything into a ceiling (like 8 hours of marking and drilling whisper clips this weekend...) so I had forgotten just how much better star drive screws are than standard Phillips. They hold on the end of a drill bit even without magnetization and don't slip off the head, skewing your thumb. Not that that ever happened to me in my first theater build!

Question on projector mounting -- with a clip/channel/DD/GG ceiling, how to people generally hang the projector mount? In the Stone Age, we just did a lot of blocking around the studs, but that isn't really possible anymore since we're decoupling the ceiling from the studs. Thought? Suggestions?
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post #45 of 50 Old 06-30-2019, 11:00 AM
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substitute a layer of 5/8 plywood for the first layer of DW in the area where you want to hang your projector. Then just use lag bolts into the plywood to secure the mount. OR secure the down pole up in the joist space on blocking. Have it stick through the drywall layers with a modest gap around the pole so the drywall isn't coupled. Caulk the gap with flexible caulk.
If you have foot traffic above the theater, hanging it off the ton of damped decoupled drywall will help steady the projector. Beware if you have a lot of heavy foot traffic neither method will be satisfactory.
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post #46 of 50 Old 08-13-2019, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I’m considering the projector placement right now, and it dawned on me that I have a 24” rear soffit where I could put a projector. Easy connections to the rack, and completely out of sight, minus the hole for the lens to pop through.

An Epson 5040UB can throw 30 feet to a 150” screen. What are the pros and cons of having it back that far?

Brightness may be slightly less (image would be telephoto light cannon vs a wide angle, but supposedly the contrast would be better.

Anyone else do a long-throw projector and/or have thoughts?
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post #47 of 50 Old 08-13-2019, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Bueller?

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post #48 of 50 Old 08-14-2019, 05:07 AM
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You may want to take this question over to the projector forums. I can't recall a project with a 30ft throw that I've worked on. The ones I've read about used pricey projectors with optional lens kits. One project I worked on had a Pro design a theater with a rear projection room that called for a pretty long throw. I asked the designer what projector was he thinking about for the space it was a $75,000 unit. We ended up hanging a Sony projector from the ceiling mid room.


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post #49 of 50 Old 08-18-2019, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonblue View Post
I’m considering the projector placement right now, and it dawned on me that I have a 24” rear soffit where I could put a projector. Easy connections to the rack, and completely out of sight, minus the hole for the lens to pop through.

An Epson 5040UB can throw 30 feet to a 150” screen. What are the pros and cons of having it back that far?

Brightness may be slightly less (image would be telephoto light cannon vs a wide angle, but supposedly the contrast would be better.

Anyone else do a long-throw projector and/or have thoughts?
Two things come to mind: 1. Gotta be careful that the projector has enough air movement so it doesn’t burn itself out. 2. The amount of light for the PJ is fixed. If you have to throw 30 feet with a 150” screen using a 5040, you won’t even come close to HDR requirements. It’ll be a hard press to even make 709 standards at that distance and screen size. The reason is the greater size screen a fixed amount of light the projector has to fill, the amount of light scattering due to dust, etc. in traveling that distance. As Jeff mentioned, I might consider doing something more mid room and enjoy the increased capabilities of the projector then.

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post #50 of 50 Old 08-20-2019, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraMikeBravo View Post
Two things come to mind: 1. Gotta be careful that the projector has enough air movement so it doesn’t burn itself out. 2. The amount of light for the PJ is fixed. If you have to throw 30 feet with a 150” screen using a 5040, you won’t even come close to HDR requirements. It’ll be a hard press to even make 709 standards at that distance and screen size. The reason is the greater size screen a fixed amount of light the projector has to fill, the amount of light scattering due to dust, etc. in traveling that distance. As Jeff mentioned, I might consider doing something more mid room and enjoy the increased capabilities of the projector then.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58423546

I asked the same question over in the $3000 Projector forum, and got some very in-depth answers and discussion. From a brightness perspective, I'm inclined to believe that I wouldn't lose all that much by focusing the light from a longer distance.

True HDR is probably a tough sell on most projectors at any distance!

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