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post #61 of 80 Old 11-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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I was informed by my general contractor that the electrician thinks we need a service upgrade. I currently have 200 amp service and my breaker box is completely full. My assumption was that they would simply run a 100-150 amp sub-panel in the addition but they're saying since the box is full and we also plan on putting in a heated pool that we need to upgrade to 400 amp service. I don't know yet what it's going to cost.

For context, this is a ~1,000 sqft addition to a 2,900 sqft house with 2 mini-split heat pumps. I currently have natural gas range, water heater, and furnaces. Future plans include a pool, probably heated with a heat pump.

While 400 amp service might be nice, especially considering the inevitable electric car charger or two, my gut feeling is that it's not absolutely necessary.
Hmm not that it would necessarily hurt anything but the wallet but I still think you are on the right track. BTW a heated pool uses propane not electric for heat the only thing on a pool that uses electric is the pump. Our set up has 200 amp service to the house (approx 5000 sq ft) with 200 amp sub panel next to that. Off of that we have a 50 amp sub panel in the pool house, for my wife's pool, and a 100 amp sub panel in my wood shop. In fifteen years the only issue we have had is the idiot builder put one whole end of the house on one 15amp circuit . so I ran a 20 amp circuit to the wall between the living room and master bedroom designated for the tv's and surround systems in both rooms. I ran another dedicated 20 amp to the office for the computers and a TV in there. No more issues I would also note that with LED bulbs usage requirements are decreasing in some areas.

One final comment on cool days with the heater on if you look real close over the pool you can see the dollar signs rising LOL

My Theater Build - Full Circle Cinema
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post #62 of 80 Old 11-14-2019, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I was expecting more along the lines of what you have, just a subpanel.

The pool company recommended an electric heat pump. They're cheaper to run than natural gas which would be the alternative for us. They spec'd a 60 amp 240v circuit for the heater.

One of the electrician's guys was out today looking at it and he confirmed that a service upgrade is in order. Waiting on the quote.
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post #63 of 80 Old 11-14-2019, 09:41 PM
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I was expecting more along the lines of what you have, just a subpanel.

The pool company recommended an electric heat pump. They're cheaper to run than natural gas which would be the alternative for us. They spec'd a 60 amp 240v circuit for the heater.

One of the electrician's guys was out today looking at it and he confirmed that a service upgrade is in order. Waiting on the quote.
Gotcha! The only thing worse around here than heating a pool would be to have to heat with electric, our electric rates are pretty high. The first few years she ran the heater a lot but now only a little in the spring and the fall so not to bad. The first year we had it the gas company thought we had a leak in the service line LOL. The first months bill was like $550 now I don't think we spend that in an entire season. I also replaced the pump a couple years back and the new one is variable speed cut the electric usage in half.

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post #64 of 80 Old 11-20-2019, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Look what just arrived! $275 shipped to my door. Delivery took 7 days.

Linacoustic RC 1", 4' x 50'. This is going in my ventilation baffle boxes and the usual front wall treatment. Like many members on AVS I had a hard time finding it locally or online for a decent price. I finally stumbled on Baker.
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post #65 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by weavinator View Post
Look what just arrived! $275 shipped to my door. Delivery took 7 days.

Linacoustic RC 1", 4' x 50'. This is going in my ventilation baffle boxes and the usual front wall treatment. Like many members on AVS I had a hard time finding it locally or online for a decent price. I finally stumbled on Baker.
Thanks for sharing your source @weavinator . I will be using same product for front wall treatment further down the road in my build.
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post #66 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 06:52 AM
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Upstairs, from top to bottom is:
3/4" T&G plywood
Green Glue
3/4" T&G plywood
1/2" Rubber horse stall mat
3/4" Advantech T&G subfloor

Theater:
3/4" Advantech T&G subfloor
Green Glue
7/16 OSB
1/2" Rubber horse stall mat
I'm curious about the rationale behind the green glue and rubber mats over the concrete floor at the theater level. I take it it's for sound proofing but what specific purpose does it serve (since there's nobody below to disturb)?
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post #67 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 08:21 AM
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I'm curious about the rationale behind the green glue and rubber mats over the concrete floor at the theater level. I take it it's for sound proofing but what specific purpose does it serve (since there's nobody below to disturb)?
Concrete floors are VERY efficient at transmitting sound - particularly lower frequencies and impact noise. If you've ever been on a concrete slab where someone is using a jackhammer to cut out a section you'll know how good it is at sending that noise throughout the slab - it rings like a bell. That noise (in subwoofer form) would travel through the slab, bypass his decoupled walls, and travel through the entire house. The plywood/Green Glue/osb/horse stall mat is used to lessen the sound's ability to get to the concrete in the first place.
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post #68 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, @p3bham explained it well. When I first started looking into soundproofing I was surprised to see that the slab needed to be addressed but it does.

I can tell you that the floors both upstairs and downstairs have a solid yet compliant feel to them.
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post #69 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 11:33 AM
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Another decoupled build for me to add to the watch-and-learn-more list. Looking great so far! Very cool looking house too.

I carried three of the TSC horse mats down my stairs for my gym setup. I was sore for 3 days and didn't need to train at all! Had to roll them and bear hug them, then lug them down the stairs without falling.
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post #70 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I am very appreciative to have someone else move them. Lugging the Atmos backer boxes up a ladder was enough for me.
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post #71 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 06:29 PM
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Another decoupled build for me to add to the watch-and-learn-more list. Looking great so far! Very cool looking house too.

I carried three of the TSC horse mats down my stairs for my gym setup. I was sore for 3 days and didn't need to train at all! Had to roll them and bear hug them, then lug them down the stairs without falling.
I have three of the I think 5/8" or 3/4" ones and moved a few months ago. I don't want to really lug a bunch of those down 16 stairs to my theater. I don't have enough bass to make my concrete floors vibrate. Right now I only have one 12" sub powered by 200 watts. I hope to get my 15" built in subs fixed someday to add to it, but still don't think it will be like what some of the guys in my area have.

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
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post #72 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I have three of the I think 5/8" or 3/4" ones and moved a few months ago. I don't want to really lug a bunch of those down 16 stairs to my theater. I don't have enough bass to make my concrete floors vibrate. Right now I only have one 12" sub powered by 200 watts. I hope to get my 15" built in subs fixed someday to add to it, but still don't think it will be like what some of the guys in my area have.
The bass bug is highly contagious on this forum so time will tell.

This is a nice segway to a worry that materialized tonight. I ran some conduit and now I'm worried about it rattling against the stud on the decoupled wall. Is this a legitimate worry? If so, what's the best way to address it?

I used conduit clamps spaced about 4 feet apart.
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post #73 of 80 Old 11-21-2019, 10:03 PM
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This is a nice segway to a worry that materialized tonight. I ran some conduit and now I'm worried about it rattling against the stud on the decoupled wall. Is this a legitimate worry? If so, what's the best way to address it?

I used conduit clamps spaced about 4 feet apart.

I am worried about the same thing. I plan on putting 1” wide x 1/2” thick weather stripping at contact points to ensure no chance of rattling, stapling it in a few places in case the adhesive ever fails. Interested in what others have done.
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post #74 of 80 Old 11-26-2019, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I am worried about the same thing. I plan on putting 1” wide x 1/2” thick weather stripping at contact points to ensure no chance of rattling, stapling it in a few places in case the adhesive ever fails. Interested in what others have done.
I took your advice and I think it will work pretty well. The weatherstripping I bought is pretty dense but with some extra clamps it's firmly held in place.



I noticed some closed cell foam that might be useful for wrapping areas where the weatherstripping may not be appropriate. I might wrap the conduit with it where it goes around some horizontal blocking.

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post #75 of 80 Old 12-03-2019, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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There was a lot of activity at the house today. The electricians and HVAC guys were here. There's a bit of a snafu on the location of the mini split in the theater. I wanted it on the front wall but through some miscommunication they ran the lines to the rear wall of the theater. So now I need to decide if it's worth having them relocate it.

You can see in these pictures the line set runs from the front aaaallll the way to the back of the room.



It means I have to reverse my ventilation plans so that supply is in now the back and return is in the front.

It puts the unit closer to the seats which increases the potential for noise.

It might mean that I have to add the rear soffit that I had eliminated.

On the plus side, it's not on the screen wall anymore.

What's everyone's opinion on front wall vs rear wall for mini splits?
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post #76 of 80 Old 12-03-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weavinator View Post
There was a lot of activity at the house today. The electricians and HVAC guys were here. There's a bit of a snafu on the location of the mini split in the theater. I wanted it on the front wall but through some miscommunication they ran the lines to the rear wall of the theater. So now I need to decide if it's worth having them relocate it.

You can see in these pictures the line set runs from the front aaaallll the way to the back of the room.
.
.
.

It means I have to reverse my ventilation plans so that supply is in now the back and return is in the front.

It puts the unit closer to the seats which increases the potential for noise.

It might mean that I have to add the rear soffit that I had eliminated.

On the plus side, it's not on the screen wall anymore.

What's everyone's opinion on front wall vs rear wall for mini splits?

Do not settle for the reversed plan! I believe Dennis Erskine has stated that people do not like cold air blowing on the back of their neck when watching a movie. The reverse plan likely means the supply vents are closer and this would tend to accentuate the sensation vs. return vents nearby. It will never be cheaper or easier than right now to make it the way you intended. The only question is who will be eating the cost to make it right, you or your subcontractor.


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post #77 of 80 Old Yesterday, 06:55 AM
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a) While I’m sad to hear somebody else’s contractor screwed up, it’s kinda nice to know it doesn’t only happen to me
b) I’ve seen in more than a few current and older threads (e.g. “What I’d do differently”) concerns about vents blowing on viewers, not to mention LED brightness. It may all be repeats of Erskine advice, but he appears to be one of the few worth repeating
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post #78 of 80 Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for that advice. You guys pushed me over the fence. I just called my contractor and he's going to have them move it.
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post #79 of 80 Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Due to a misreading of my electrical plan, which in hindsight I understand, the electrician was half way through installing a bathroom fan in the equipment closet when I got home. My first clue was the open vent fan boxes laying on his truck.

Through the telephone game that is construction, the ceiling outlets I designated for fans (inline duct fans I will install later) were interpreted as "install a vent fan here".

Of course I caught it after the guy cut giant holes in about 8 joists with what I assume is a dull hole saw generating a lot of smoke in the process.

I learned this lesson when we built the house but it seems there's always more detail that can be conveyed. It helps that this is a remodel so I can catch problems every day.
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post #80 of 80 Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM
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I’ve literally considered dropping a web cam in to monitor for this kind of stuff. Thankfully I’ve trained two of my guys (they’re in theory my GC’s guys, but they’re my temporary wards now) to make liberal use of FaceTime when in doubt- even built “sample” backer boxes with drywall/green glue as an object lesson.
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