In-ceiling wiring for 8k HDMI... (and projector distance) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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In-ceiling wiring for 8k HDMI... (and projector distance)

Electricians will be arriving in about a week to wire up our new house, and I need to provide in-wall/in-ceiling cables and specify ceiling projector position.

I'd like to future-proof by installing an 8k/48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cable in the ceiling. My questions are:
  • Is a passive 10m/30' 48Gbps HDMI cable a real thing? The only one I can find is this one from unknown manufacturer: https://www.amazon.com.au/SIKAI-Brai...07HP2BFGN?th=1
  • If I use female-to-female wall terminators on each end, and connect short 48Gbps cables to devices, will I still be able to get 48Gbps device to device? Total length would be 11.5m/38'.
  • Would installing a DisplayPort 1.4a cable be worth while? I believe max cable length is 3m, so I guess I would need an extremely expensive optical fibre/active cable? (And added lag when gaming?)

I'd also like to terminate the HDMI and power cables at a spot in the ceiling that will work for future projector upgrade. My room is 5.5m/18' long, and I'd like to allow for a 120' and 150' screen. Is there a best-fit/average position that will work with most projectors?
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 06:58 AM
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Future proof it and just add good 2” wide tubes from on place to the next.


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post #3 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 07:34 AM
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I don't believe there is any cable on the market which can be trusted to adequately support 8K over a long run. I doubt its even possible with a passive cable and the chipsets for active cables don't exist yet. The certification standard for Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (there is no such thing as a "2.1 cable") have not even been released yet.
Even the best 18Gbps cables are not a sure thing and should be tested with your equipment in the room before a permanent install in the wall.

You should never use female-to-female wall terminators if it can at all be avoided, particularly on a long run. There are many stories here of someone's HDMI issues being solved when they bypassed a problematic coupler. The best results will come from a direct connection from source to display. There are aesthetically pleasing treatments available for where the cable enters and exits the wall.

As Jason says the only way to future-proof is to install conduit. Replace it when it malfunctions or becomes outdated. That's what I've done. If you cannot run a conduit, then run the best cable you can get for now (probably a fiber optic cable from Monoprice or Ruipro) as well as multiple runs of Cat6 which may be able to carry a future higher-bandwidth signal.
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattztt View Post
I don't believe there is any cable on the market which can be trusted to adequately support 8K over a long run. I doubt its even possible with a passive cable and the chipsets for active cables don't exist yet. The certification standard for Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (there is no such thing as a "2.1 cable") have not even been released yet.
Even the best 18Gbps cables are not a sure thing and should be tested with your equipment in the room before a permanent install in the wall.

You should never use female-to-female wall terminators if it can at all be avoided, particularly on a long run. There are many stories here of someone's HDMI issues being solved when they bypassed a problematic coupler. The best results will come from a direct connection from source to display. There are aesthetically pleasing treatments available for where the cable enters and exits the wall.

As Jason says the only way to future-proof is to install conduit. Replace it when it malfunctions or becomes outdated. That's what I've done. If you cannot run a conduit, then run the best cable you can get for now (probably a fiber optic cable from Monoprice or Ruipro) as well as multiple runs of Cat6 which may be able to carry a future higher-bandwidth signal.
https://mailchi.mp/metraelec/take-4k...s?e=53febb2285
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 07:56 AM
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I agree with what matztt said. To add some more details to the discussion -

1. Avoid in-wall jacks or terminations. I had to remove all of mine due to HDMI handshake issues.
2. There is no passive or active HDMI cable that can handle 48Gbps for HDMI 2.1. Even the so called "certified" 18Gbps cables fail over longer runs.
3. Put a 2" PVC conduit from one end to the other, so that you can add/replace cables in future easily.
4. Use a fiber optic HDMI cable from Monoprice or Ruipro (both on Amazon) and run them from your source to the projector (home run) without any terminations or wall jacks. This is currently the ONLY way to have a reliable HDMI connection running full bandwidth.
5. If I was you, I would add a pair or more, of shielded CAT6 cables and terminate them using wall jacks. Just leave the cables in the conduit. If in future you end up running HDBaseT, you can use the CAT6 cables for it and avoid HDMI cables all together.
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for all the great advice.

I will ask my builder about the conduit - fingers crossed we're allowed to cut 2" holes through the floor joists.

I've had a look at those bull-nose face plates to avoid the wall terminators. Our plaster will be sealed and mounted on furring channels and isolated from the frame, so I'll need to figure out some sort of sealant that can be cleanly removed and replaced when changing cables. Although I suppose I could replace the face plate as well.

HDBaseT sounds great with it's 0.01ms latency. I will add the cat6 cables and hope that future HDBaseT revisions keep up in terms of bandwidth.


On the second part, any pointers on one-size-fits-all projector-to-screen distance?
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 04:09 PM
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1 1/2 works too. You can drill holes up to 1/3 the height of a joist. 2 is overkill for an HDMI cable. Rigid grey PVC conduit is the value choice be sure to use sweeping curves not plumbing fittings. Or you can use Carlon Resiguard. looks a like smurf tube. pricier but easier to deal with turns. It is on Amazon if your local electrical supply houses don't stock it.
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psdillon View Post
On the second part, any pointers on one-size-fits-all projector-to-screen distance?

give me your screen size and format. specify if your inches are width or diagonal and 16:9 or 2.35:1.
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
give me your screen size and format. specify if your inches are width or diagonal and 16:9 or 2.35:1.
Thanks Jeff. I wanted to allow for a 16:9 screen with diagonal measurement of 150". Could you estimate for 120" diagonal as well?

(Our viewing distance will be 10'. The viewing distance calculators tell me that's too close for a 150" screen, but 8k calculators tell me that's not close enough...)
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 05:38 PM
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the current crop of JVC, Sony and Epson projectors will fit


150 inch diagonal 17 to 29 feet screen to lens
120 inch diagonal 14 to 24 feet
I like to position it over the heads of people sitting in the second row or farther based on available space. There is a brightness hit the further back you move a projector


with an 18 ft room you should look at JVC or Sony they can be 15'-8" and 15 respectively from a 150 inch screen.
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Jeff!
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 05:42 PM
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-22-2019, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I now realise that the projector is right up at the back wall, which makes my cable upgrading issue a lot easier if I move my equipment to the back wall. I'm confident of getting conduit into the wall (vs ceiling), and at worst case I could drop a new cable along the wall and hide it behind a feature or some sort of diffraction treatment.

Jeff you've helped me before with this room - you're an amazing asset to the community.

I've attached the plan and render of my modest room in case anyone is interested.
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