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-   -   Full Circle Cinema Build (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/3069152-full-circle-cinema-build.html)

pkinneb 05-23-2019 03:00 PM

Full Circle Cinema (Build Thread)
 
4 Attachment(s)
Intro

The name comes from the fact that my wife of 33 years and I met at a theater. I was the manager and she worked part time as a cashier. Now that the kids are out of college and we have a few bucks we're building a small dedicated theater in our home. We have always enjoyed movies and now our kids and their significant others do as well.

Build Info

Inspiration Builds
The DayDream - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ter-build.html

The Sierra Nevada - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...a-theater.html

Ashton Cove - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...-build-24.html

Room 14'7" wide by 16'7" long by 8'9" tall

HVAC 1 supply & 1 return connected to house HVAC and 1 supply & 1 return dead vents powered with AC Infinity 8" fans

Sound Proofing room in side a room for walls, clips and channel ceiling, ceiling - 5/8" OSB/GG/5/8" Drywall, Walls - double 5/8" drywall with GG.

Power (2) 20 amp circuits, (3) 15 amp circuits

Equipment
7.2.4
JVC DLA X790R
Denon AVRX6400H
Speakers Definitive Technology in wall DI 6.5 LCR, DT in wall DI 5.5. Atmos - RSL C34E , Subs HSU VTF-3MK5
DVD - Panasonic DP-UB820
Line conditioner - Furman PL-Pro DMC
Remote - Logitech Harmony Elite
Automation - Insteon
A/V Rack - 27RU Sanus (CL find)
Seating - HT Market Sheffield front row, Cecil Commercial Theater seats rear row

This project started last September and includes the entire basement with the theater just one room of the overall project. I am doing most of the work myself with the exception of pluming, drywall taping, and carpet. I have worked with @BIGmouthinDC (thanks Jeff!!) since the start and have spent many hours on this forum educating myself.

Here is the overall layout of the basement
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558786926

Planed entry sketch
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558786926

Original plan
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558786926

Plan after educating myself and working with @BIGmouthinDC
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558786926

pkinneb 05-23-2019 03:01 PM

Reserved for finished Room Photo's

pkinneb 05-23-2019 03:21 PM

6 Attachment(s)
After doing some research and working with Jeff I realized the double door was not going to cut it for sound proofing and the location would not work either so that was one of the first things changed. I also built an alcove for the equipment rack into the corner. It is fully decoupled as well and can be seen in the 3rd photo.

Here is the original location

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...4&d=1558645704https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...6&d=1558645704

and after re framing

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...8&d=1558645704

To conserve as much room space as possible I removed the half walls used foam insulation for the vapor barrier then built full decoupled walls inside of that. I used TS horse mat under the base plates and and IB3 clips to attach to the top plates.

Design pic

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558786758

Before

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...4&d=1558646250

After

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...6&d=1558646250

Then I added sound deadner to all the pipes

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...8&d=1558646250

pkinneb 05-23-2019 03:43 PM

7 Attachment(s)
With the framing complete it was time to deal with the window. Originally I had planned to remove it but after thinking about it further I decided to just cover it up. First I applied finish to the window, then I installed blinds, installed foam insulation, and capped it with plywood prior to sealing it up with the new vapor barrier.

Foam installed

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558715087

Outside

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558715007

Framing done so that if anyone ever decides to open it up it can be done without re framing.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558714923

Next up was cutting the base plates of the new openings for the door and A/V rack

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558715142https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558715215

And after the cement was done

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558715215https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558715215

sassuki 05-23-2019 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkinneb (Post 58090136)



Then I added sound deadner to all the pipes



Attachment 2570838


Man, I wish I would have thought of that. I have a bunch of dynamat I could have used for the main sewer pipe that’s in my theater wall. The Silva brothers on this old house use cast iron pipe when it goes through a wall by a living space. I’ve always thought that was a good idea since the pvc is so noisy when people upstairs flush or the washer empties.

pkinneb 05-23-2019 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassuki (Post 58090288)
Man, I wish I would have thought of that. I have a bunch of dynamat I could have used for the main sewer pipe that’s in my theater wall. The Silva brothers on this old house use cast iron pipe when it goes through a wall by a living space. I’ve always thought that was a good idea since the pvc is so noisy when people upstairs flush or the washer empties.

With just the deadner you wouldn't confuse it with cast iron pipes but helped a bunch and with the insulation, DD, GG, etc now you cannot hear it running down at all inside the room.

pkinneb 05-24-2019 11:18 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Next up I came up with a conduit plan. First I ran one to where my projector will go. Ultimately this will go all the way back to the AV rack for now just from projector location back into the soffit.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558717580

Next I ran one from my digital movie poster location (at the bottom of the stairs) into the AV rack location. I did this just in case I ever want to use a PC to run the software vs just a memory stick.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558717640

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558717640

This shot shows the two speaker wire conduits from the AV rack to the soffit (left) and the projector conduit to the soffit on the right

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558718041

pkinneb 05-24-2019 11:55 AM

10 Attachment(s)
The next issue to tackle was the HVAC. After a bunch of research on this forum and with folks in the know I decided to use a two prong approach. First the homes HVAC, I will have one 6" supply via insulated flex duct at the front (soffit) of the room and one return via insulated flex duct from the rear soffit. I will also have one 8" flex duct pulling air in from the soffit above the patio door in the rec room, to the front soffit. In the rear I have a 8" flex dumping air out of the room into the hallway. This duct has a wye 4" to the top of the av rack alcove and 6" to the rear soffit. both of these will utilize AC Infinity Cloudline T8 controlled inline duct fans.

To build the AV rack intake I went to the shop and using 3/4" MDF made a box, lined it with Linacoustic, and added a take off

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719198

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719293

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719342

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719342

Then I installed it by simply screwing from inside the alcove attaching it to the double drywall

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719342

In this shot you can see the T8 Installed. I used some left over rubber mat to insulate between the fan and the 2x it was mounted to.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719342

Then I made a take off for the outlet simple plywood with a metal takeoff attached. Then plumbed in all the flex pipe and the wye

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719514

Finally I insulated the entire space. Both Ruxol just becuase I had it and pink fluffy. The rectangular opening will be covered with a vent so that I have access to the fan as well as a code requirement to be able to access the outlet. Since this area is outside of the double drywall GG room it should not pose a noise problem but I did use 5/8 drywall on all the outside walls of the theater including this alcove just as added insurance.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719514

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558719514

pkinneb 05-25-2019 06:07 AM

9 Attachment(s)
While I spent many hours planning for wiring and than actually running the wires I didn't take any pics. As stated above I have (3) 20 amp circuits run to the theater (1) for subwoofers and (2) to the AV alcove. I also ran (3) 15 amp circuits (1) for lights and (2) for outlets. Other special wiring included:
1) 14/2 run from AV alcove to projector this will allow me to use a UPS so the projector lamp has backup power to shut down properly if the power goes out
2) Fire alarm cable from the hallway so the alarm in the theater will be tied into rest of home
3) Subwoofer cables to backer boxes in all four corners
4) (2) cat 6 cables from AV alcove to router
5) Speaker wire to LCR backer boxes since I won't have access once drywall goes up. The other speaker wires will run through the columns and soffits to the installed conduits and can be run later.
6) I also had to reroute our septic alarm this will end up being in one of the columns now
7) Finally I ran wire from both AC infinity T8 fans to the AV alcove. With the new connectors I purchased on Amazon this will allow me to extend the controllers to the AV rack with out altering the factory wiring.

One of the few wiring pics I took was the States sign off on the rough in inspection

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

Here is a shot of the AV alcove at this point

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

While early in the process equipment started to arrive. This was tough for me becuase while I really didn't want to store it or spend the money decisions had to be made for wiring and other construction reasons so I have a fair an mount of money sitting in a spare bedroom

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

Next up I was back in the shop making backer boxes for the LCR's and the front sub woofer cables. Basic construction 3/4" MDF with 1/4" cement board and GG between them. The LCR box size was determined by using the mfg recommended Cu ft then fitting into my space. Since I only had 4" depth to work with they are rather big but not deep.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558785734

Installed

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558784886

wyowolf 05-25-2019 06:49 AM

Some great pics! Looks like you got a pretty serious woodworking setup as well!

pkinneb 05-25-2019 11:30 AM

8 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wyowolf (Post 58096474)
Some great pics! Looks like you got a pretty serious woodworking setup as well!

Thanks! Yes woodworking is my other hobby. I built the shop about 15 years ago and it has worked out well. I have a small spray room 10 x 12 and an office and industrial sewing machine in the upstairs. Its pretty much my dream shop, shop wide compressed air system, central dust collection, central heat and air, DirecTV, internet, surround sound, fridge the only thing I don't have is water. Due to the location it was just to much to justify.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558805524

Here are some of my pieces from the last few years

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558805323

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558804882

[img/https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2571636&stc=1&d=155880 4882[/img]

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558804882

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558804882

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558804882

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558804882

BIGmouthinDC 05-25-2019 01:40 PM

wow

pkinneb 05-25-2019 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC (Post 58097934)
wow

Thanks Jeff

Luddy111dog 05-26-2019 03:52 AM

Love the pictures, detail & enthusiasm.

I'm a subscriber ;-)

pkinneb 05-26-2019 09:33 AM

9 Attachment(s)
One thing I meant to mention is I have found it very helpful to not only mark things on the floor but to also take pictures in case I ever need to know where something is. Here are a couple examples

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504]

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

I started the clips and channel by setting up my laser level I found this tool to be really useful for this task. One thing to note in this picture is because of local fire code and blocking requirements I used Safe n Sound insulation. This allowed me to meet the blocking requirement with out undoing all my decoupling efforts.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

Then the clips and channel went up followed by a layer of 5/8" OSB. I will have a double soffit and wanted the ability to attach anywhere making the OSB a must have. Also the conduit from the soffit to the center of the ceiling was done for a fiber optic star ceiling. I cut around the OSB then cut the end off, stuffed the end with insulation, and sheet rocked over it. If I need it I can just drill through the drywall. I have since been leaning strongly towards having @NightSkyMurals come out and paint the star ceiling on so not sure I will use this now but it was only a few bucks so no loss. In the second pic you can also see the septic alarm which will be relocated to the column on that side.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558883504

All ready for sheet rock :)

pkinneb 05-26-2019 09:59 AM

10 Attachment(s)
First layer off dry wall going up. Again I found the laser level helpful for this

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

Unfortunately I have three different cleanouts in this room the plan for sound proofing is to save the sheet rock cutout GG it to a square of plywood and screw it over the hole. Since I am doing fabric panels it will be covered up.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

For those days when you grab the wrong size hole saw:eek: here is a quick way to enlarge the hole. Just use the smaller hole saw as a guide bit it will only stick out about 3/16" but if you're care full it works like a charm

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

I used this bit to cut the larger holes with. Heads up they are made for 1/2" drywall so you have to cut the last bit with a razor knife

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

Now back to the dry wall

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

Acoustic sealant on the backer boxes

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558885292

First layer complete
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558886149

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558886149

pkinneb 05-26-2019 10:09 AM

7 Attachment(s)

pkinneb 05-26-2019 10:20 AM

5 Attachment(s)
I hired a taper to do the entire basement. While I do a fair amount of DIY this is one thing I always hire out

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558887245

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558887245

The rest of the basement is progressing as well. First time I have done curves like this pretty happy with the results

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558887245

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558887245

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558887245

...and with that we're all caught up (7 months work) to where things are to date. Going forward posts will be real time.

BIGmouthinDC 05-26-2019 11:37 AM

I'm worn out just thinking about all the work that went into those various stages of the project. I may need a power nap.

Luddy111dog 05-26-2019 02:48 PM

Luv'en those "Curved" areas. Really adds to a touch of class IMO.

Regarding picture no.3 with the curved benched area, is that going to be a bar.... or where I can purchase tickets for the opening night Lol.

pkinneb 05-26-2019 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luddy111dog (Post 58101696)
Luv'en those "Curved" areas. Really adds to a touch of class IMO.

Regarding picture no.3 with the curved benched area, is that going to be a bar.... or where I can purchase tickets for the opening night Lol.

Thanks! Yes that is the bar. We plan on having a popper on the far end as well as a Margaritaville Frozen Concoction Maker like @Oklahomie used in his build :)

pkinneb 05-27-2019 05:22 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Painting the rest of the basement most of the theater will be covered so I just rolled on a quick coat of primer to seal the drywall

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558998411

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558998411

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558998411

Working through my soffit design and think I am pretty close on the bottom one marked final (at least until I change it again.) I will be mounting RSL C34E Atmos speakers and lighting in the inner soffit. I think I asked Jeff this but can't find it in my notes do I need backer boxes for these since they are inside the decoupled envelope? I still need to figure out what to do for the projector either a shelf or box. Also any idea's for access to the ends of the soffits where the PJ goes would be helpful. I will have outlets there for LED and black lights to charge the ceiling paint and by code will have to have access so need to figure out how to design that in so it looks good. One more question I had the taper skim coat the ceiling in the theater so it would be perfectly flat but Jeff @NightSkyMurals advised a knockdown might me better. Now that I am going to go with drywall for the soffit instead of MDF I will need to call the taper back out, since he's there I will probably have him do the knockdown on the ceiling would you guys suggest I have the bottoms of the soffits done with knockdown as well? Thanks for your help!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1558998411

BIGmouthinDC 05-27-2019 05:33 PM

you only need backer boxes for the lights if you also plan on using the soffit as a plenum for your HVAC. Otherwise not.

It is OK to let sound bleed in the inner soffit for Atmos channels as a diffuse sound source is better than a point source, I will get flak on that comment. it is like heresy. If you subscribe to that concept no backers are required.

tjambro 05-28-2019 12:08 PM

Looking good but those curves look great!

pkinneb 05-31-2019 08:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Not much work since my last post but I did get the 1 3/4" door slab ordered from HD and the seals and auto door bottom ordered from the soundproofingcompany.com. Now I just need to get some hinges ordered and then head to the lumber supplier for some poplar so I can make the doorjamb. Also I picked up the channel for the soffits this evening so as soon as i'm done painting I have a few things I can work on.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1559355625

pkinneb 06-02-2019 04:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quick update. Finished painting the rest of the basement yesterday only touch ups left to do. Today I started installing outlets, switches, and light fixtures in the rest of the basement. While doing this I was pondering the best way to handle my AC Infinity T8 fan controllers and temp probes. I extended the wires so that the controllers will be in the rack the question is where would you put the probe(s)? the supply fan is mounted in the half bath soffit off the front right corner of the screen wall. The return fan is located above the rack alcove. The probes have about 12' of wire, and plug into the controllers which will be in the rack, so I could run one up to the soffit and mount it there either on the bottom or side wall of the soffit. I could leave one behind the rack...the fans can actually be run off separate or the same controller and probes. Bluer101 has his off separate controllers and probes what do the rest of you folks think?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1559515759

On another note how does one determine the size of the soundproof box and grills to keep noise to a minimum but also keep the flow that you need into the room? I picked up 4 collars (2 for HVAC, 2 for dead vents) last night and once the soffits are started this will be one of the first things I need to tackle.

Thanks for your help!!

Gnaw em Gophs 06-04-2019 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkinneb (Post 58131738)
Quick update. Finished painting the rest of the basement yesterday only touch ups left to do. Today I started installing outlets, switches, and light fixtures in the rest of the basement. While doing this I was pondering the best way to handle my AC Infinity T9 fan controllers and temp probes. I extended the wires so that the controllers will be in the rack the question is where would you put the probe(s)? the supply fan is mounted in the half bath soffit off the front right corner of the screen wall. The return fan is located above the rack alcove. The probes have about 12' of wire, and plug into the controllers which will be in the rack, so I could run one up to the soffit and mount it there either on the bottom or side wall of the soffit. I could leave one behind the rack...the fans can actually be run off separate or the same controller and probes. Bluer101 has his off separate controllers and probes what do the rest of you folks think?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1559515759

On another note how does one determine the size of the soundproof box and grills to keep noise to a minimum but also keep the flow that you need into the room? I picked up 4 collars (2 for HVAC, 2 for dead vents) last night and once the soffits are started this will be one of the first things I need to tackle.

Thanks for your help!!

Good job on your build so far! I'm following your build closely because I'm in a northern climate too and planning to do a lot of the same things you are doing. I certainly hope it works out for you! Do you mean the AC Infinity T8? (not T9?) That's what I was going to use. I was planning on doing the same thing for HVAC as you except my room is bigger so I was thinking of 2-6" supplies and equivalent returns off the home's HVAC and splitting the dead vent supply/return (air exchanger with rest of basement) into two grills each to slow down the air.

Regarding the grill size here's my arithmetic for my room's dead vents: The T8 is rated for 740 CFM. Once they're installed in the real world I'm sure they will get less but I'm not sure how to estimate that. I was thinking it had enough head room. My room is 4480 cubic feet. 4480 * 6 (air exchanges per hour) = 26880 per hour. 26880 / 60 (minutes) = 448 CFM needed. To be quiet, Linear Feet Per Min at grill should be ~250. LFM = CFM/Area, thus Area = CFM/LFM. Area=448/250. Thus, total Area of grills = 1.792 sq ft. That's why I was planning to split this into two grills each. I'm certainly no HVAC expert so hopefully someone can chime in and tell me where I'm wrong. I've read some say you want more than 6 air exchanges per hour. Obviously, I'm disregarding any exchanges you're getting from the HVAC system.

Outside of my room will be unfinished, so for the HVAC supplies (and returns?) I was thinking of installing a manual duct damper to shut off the HVAC supplies if the house is calling for heating but I don't want the theater heated. I'm doing that there because I'm not sure if having a damper at the grill in the theater would whistle. Anyway, hopefully one of the experts will chime in.

pkinneb 06-04-2019 01:12 PM

Correct that was a typo (I corrected) they are T8's.

Thanks for the info that gives me a place to start and hopefully others will chime in. One thing re the CFM, 740 CFM is on high and that is probably going to be too loud. I tested it on high and its actually pretty loud. That was before any soundproofing so might be ok since both are outside my decoupled theater but will need to do more testing. My door should be here next week so once that's up I can get a better idea. I did order a 25' cable extension for the probe so I can put it pretty much anywhere I want now. I will start to run some tests with everything extended just to make sure it all works ok next weekend when the power is connected.

Gnaw em Gophs 06-05-2019 08:46 AM

Good, keep us posted. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how loud it is with the door. I meant to link to this in my last post but here's a good calculator I ran into for duct sizes/flow: https://www.engineering.com/calculators/airflow.htm

As an aside, what sound deadener did you wrap your pipes with. Did it help?

pkinneb 06-05-2019 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnaw em Gophs (Post 58143592)
Good, keep us posted. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how loud it is with the door. I meant to link to this in my last post but here's a good calculator I ran into for duct sizes/flow: https://www.engineering.com/calculators/airflow.htm

As an aside, what sound deadener did you wrap your pipes with. Did it help?

Thanks for the link. I will need to pull some CFM numbers off the HVAC

I used Kilmat 50 off of Amazon. It helped some but not as much as I had hoped, if I had to do it again I would primarily becuase it was only like $75 in expense. Now that the insulation, DD, and GG has been installed it is much better. It will be interesting to see what I can hear once the door is in :)


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