2 years ago I built a dedicated theater room in my basement and I wired it for 7.2.4 Atmos. Here is some info on my theater: My speakers are GoldenEar One.R for L&R, GoldenEar Invisa MPX for surrounds and RSL C34E for my 4 overhead Armos. The system is powered by an Emotive UPA-700 for all but Atmos and an Emotiva Basx A500 for Atmos speakers with a Marantz AV7702mkII prepro. My system was calibrated by Chad B. The room is ~14' W x 22' L x 8' H.

My problem is that neither my wife nor myself can usually tell when/if Atmos is working. I've even bumped up the speaker levels a couple db and it hasn't made much difference. Sometimes I feel like there is sound coming from overhead and have my wife turn off the Atmos amp and there is no change. I am wondering if I am getting a lot of ceiling reflection from my left and right speakers and it's drowning out or blending with the Atmos speakers' output.

If I play a couple of the Dolby Atmos demo videos (like the one with the rain and falling leaf) I can hear the Atmos effect more noticeably. I am theorizing that it may be because they tend to be quieter overall scene so the fronts aren't blasting out sound to compete with or drown out the overhead speakers.

So my question is how do I test if this is indeed the case and then how do I test possible solutions? I imagine if I am right the solution would be sound treatment on the ceiling but how much and where? And how can I test the results without marring my ceiling in the process?

I feel the same way about most 7.1 mixes on blu ray and I felt the same way when I went to see blade runner 2049 at a Dolby vision theater.

The upgrades are so incremental at this point that it’s getting really hard to justify the investments.

I will say when I watched “Upgrade” recently I was really impressed by the voice of “Stem” which sounded like it came from all around me as opposed to the rest of the movie that was mostly on my fronts.


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Somebody recommended in another thread that they turned off all speakers except for the Atmos and seeing how it sounds. Also what is the content source and what are you watching? Not all Atmos movies are made the same, some have a ton of sound going, others do not, especially Disney/Marvel movies, their Atmos tracks are super quiet and hard to hear already. Getting a movie like Overlord is a pretty good test. Blade Runner 2049 and Ready Player one are also good.

Check this video on the Atmos only demo so you can see what sounds do come out of the ceiling.

What's your source? That will dictate a lot when it comes to whether or not you're even getting Atmos.

Such is the nature of Atmos.. I find it extremely exhilarating.. I bump my atmos 3db,and it works very good.. Best investment i made since upgrading from VHS to DVD..
Be aware though there have recently been a score of bad Atmos (well,not bad,but very low volume) blurays especially from Disney.. Proper atmos soundtracks are the new Tarzan movie 2016, Jupiter Ascending and the John Wick movies..
Be also aware,most of the time the overheads deliver atmosphere and background sounds like echo in a theater or busy street noises.. The whole idea of atmos is to "be in the center".. Directional effects like planes or helicopters overhead are not that common.
Atmos is the sole reason i upgraded my home theater and i am not dissapointed.


Also check if you get the atmos signal in the marantz.. You need to bitstream from source via hdmi and let avr do decoding

Agreed!



Some of the Atmos demos in 4k/atmos/etc demo torrent were excellent (RP1, Blade Runner, Mad Max, some of the Dolby-demos), but a lot of other stuff wasn't all that great (granted, I have pretty mediocre Atmos speakers (two pairs of $40 outdoor speakers). I figured for the pretty cheap price it was worth it to play with Atmos (I have a 5.2.4 setup) since the LX503 was cheaper than a few of the 5.2.2 AVRs and the difference between $40 for two height speakers and $80 for four height speakers was pretty much nothing. I do like it better no-Atmos, but I expected a bit more than what I have gotten so far.



Gaming, on the other had, is pretty cool (only played Rise of the Tomb Raider [on the XB1X] so far, but the opening mountain scene sounded great). The Star Wars Battlefront Atmos demo was also great. I need to download that and play it again (the sound design in that game was awesome).

I've sat through numerous vendor Atmos demos at CEDIA since it was introduced. For me it has never been a knock your socks off experience worthy of ripping into my ceiling to run new wires. However if building out a new space I would always recommend pre-wiring for it. The people most excited are those that profit from selling and installing more gear. Of the three Dolby staff conducted presentations I've attended the fact that this new feature provided an opportunity for dealers and installers to go back to their existing client base with something new to sell was always emphasized in the first few minutes of the talk. Not how transforming the audio experience was going to be.

It might be worth trying to turn on dynamic volume, as this will bring up quieter sounds and bring down louder sounds or peaks (basically level everything out). I noticed when testing this way that the atmos channels were more noticeable (I also bump their trim levels up 1 to 2db normally in any configuration).

So true! And it's either the fault of or to the credit of the Sound mix.

The solution really doesn't require as much of a "Test" as it does a specific "action" to take.


You were "probably" hearing more imaging from your Surrounds than from the Atmos channels. But not because of Reflections, which would serve to muddy the sound enough to be noticeable. Certainly an effective deadening of the Ceiling would eliminate reflection from contention. As I see things, the RSL C34E speakers can deliver impressive Atmos, both by directing AND dispersing the content where it is best suited, so you issue lies elsewhere. That being using the RSL C34E's to best effect.


Tsunamijhoe has it exactly right. Atmos is exactly what Atmos is intended to be. Not at all like early Surround channel effects. Who remembers when Surround channels were only a small percentage as powered as the Mains? And there were always smaller and more cheaply made? But why? Because to make them even noticeable they had to be efficient enough to play at higher volumes with less power. That is starting to address the OPs issue...but in reverse.


The above is something I have discussed with several members...that even inexpensive Speakers placed at least semi-correctly created appreciable Atmos effect....certainly a distinct improvement over "no Atmos at all. But a current that ran through everyone's situation was perceived volume. Just as with early Surround adopters (...especially those with "effect" channels....), while the content was there...it could not be heard distinctly enough....or at least as desired. So VOLUME was the answer. Calibrating Atmos to a select signal just doesn't work very practically. While it does blend the frequency response to a room's acoustics, that signal does not accurately represent actual content. And THAT has always been the plague that has beset many....poorly heard content. That alone has always driven many to discount surround effects, and all that has created resistance to every step along the way to advanced multi-channel formats, all through 5.1 - 6.1 - 7.1 ...and beyond. Well that and the resulting price bump.



OMG...a voice of reason! Absolutely, CEDIA and everything about it is focused on urging Dealer / Installers to push new...and expensive technology on both post and present Customers. Now for me, I have been dealing with surround sound since it's earliest adoption (pre-1980) because it suited the system designs I was / am involved with. Designs that required a higher power curve than almost anything else....but in doing so always helped deliver surround-oriented content with more presence. These days, Atmos can be drop-dead spectacular depending upon content...and with conventions speakers as well.



So my best advice? It's the same as Tsunamijhoe's. Turn up the Atmos channels on those RSL C34E's!


But wait! You mentioned your Ceilings are only 8' and the room's width is 14'. It would also seem that with such a limited distance involved that the RSL C34E's can't really disperse the Atmos content widely enough, so perhaps they are "spotlighting" low volume content more than they should, outside of the ideal seating locations? Angled Drivers can be a double-edged sword...they can be great to direct imagery....but they tend to minimize the ideal listening area. They work best in higher ceilings in larger rooms where distance requires more direction-ality but also helps with dispersion.


I have myself used the RSL C34E's when I had to, but not as a last resort as much as a viable and extremely acceptable choice. They are as far as I'm concerned the singular best value in a In-Ceiling driver that can be applied to Atmos applications. However......an 8' Ceiling is a consideration, and since there is no supplied positioning description (..and with the size Holes required of the RSL C34E's relocation is not a viable choice....) increasing Volume is the most logical and sensible solution.



..........what he said.

Mississippiman and Tunamijhoe, thanks! Going to play around with my settings a bit more tonight/this weekend.



This seems like it is going to be similar to the bass-boosted movie thread (add some +6db filters and a high shelf cut!).

glad i stumbled on this also.. i swear that i cant even tell atmos speakers are up there... im going to try bumpin them up 2 dec and see how it feels and sounds...

also i noticed on my x4400h denon when i select the atmos on it it doesnt show the height speakers lit up i nthe config.. only if i do neutral x atmos or auro 3d or neutral auro 3d..... mayeb the bitstream on my vizio tv is the issue when using vudu in smart apps... and also on ps4 i should change to bitstream??

my pq65 vizio has auto pcm bitstream and dolby options under audio. i have it set to auto i think.

No 2 rooms are alike,and the "proper" settings are really just guidelines,there are no wrongs here, well there are (upwardfiring reflection atmos speakers and atmos soundbars) but your ears and brain are very good at decerning if something is good or not..

I will say like others here,placement is a BIG factor,but my setup works very well with ceiling mounted monitor audio bronze bookshelfs (until i can afford XTZ Cinema S2). My ceiling is 2.2m which i guess is about same you have,and this works awesome. Ofcourse they are angled and setup per dolby specifications in line with my mains and so on. I did use a SPL meter to better toe them in after audyssey on my marantz 7704,and result is stunning on the right material..There are a lot of sound engineer/designers who doesnt use the atmos/dtsx technology very well,but when done right it will blow your mind.

Just because someone recommends 80hz xover,doesnt mean you should stick to it like glue,same with volume and everything else for that matter..

Have fun,and enjoy your hobby.. So what if you have to turn up volume 5db,noone cares,but you ;-)..

That's too bad, My atmos upgrade has been flat out amazing, I can't believe the difference and love watching any atmos movie. Only advice I would say is to make sure you have a good blu ray atmos movie or demo, No streaming or bootleg copies. My Torrent files from here and really good because the sound and separation are astounding. Also the auto calibration from the Marantz should be used, test tones on all speakers, go to manual after auto and change the L and R to small if needed and make sure crossovers are at 80hz and LFE at 120. That's all you can do other than find an AVS buddy in the area to help.

I've been living with Atmos for about a month now. So far I have been impressed. But I have to agree its not the technology or the volume levels or even the room. Its the source material.

Despite my hobbit-tier ceiling heights (7') my atmos speakers are directionally perfect to my seating position and based almost exactly at reference listening angles on the Dolby Atmos website.

However, I have noticed that non-atmos / non-neural:X) DTS 7.1 tracked blu-rays don't make as much use of them as Dolby 7.1 tracked ones. Maybe that's a legacy issue with my AVR (3 year old x4300h) or some behind the scenes DTS / Dolby turf war. Who knows?

That said some sources that are not specified as Atmos sound wonderful in Atmos. The last scene of the last episode of Game of Thrones where Jon is walking through the wall is perfect example. The audio source is a Dolby Digital 5.1 source per the stream / source, but its absolutely magical in Atmos and even my wife commented on it who normally doesn't comment on audio.

The moon lander scene in First Man on 4k Blu-Ray is tear inducingly amazing. The shot after Lance Armstrong hits the alarm button on the lander and the camera pans out to a wide flat shot of the lander arcing over the moons surface is the best use of Atmos / audio I've seen yet, and I've seen a lot recently.

Awww, come on, SPOILER ALERT!

If your base surrounds are mounted high in the walls I imagine the relative contribution of ceiling speakers will be reduced.

My source is ripped Blu-Rays played through Kodi on an Nvidia Shield. Audio is Passthrough and the Marantz shows it detects Atmos/DTS:X. Originally, my side surrounds were wall mounted speakers and out of fear of people's shoulder hitting them walking along either isle, I had them mount right above shoulder height. For awhile I thought that was the issue as surround sounds were coming from above also. So I switched to in-wall speakers at ear level and that really helped the side surrounds sound MUCH better but it didn't change the ability to sense the overhead speakers. I guess I'll try upping their levels even more and see what that does.

russdornisch - Thanks for posting that video. I didn't know there were Atmos only tracks to try. After searching, I found more and I will definitely check them out. I have watched some of the movies mentioned with great Atmos tracks and I do remember some of those sounding excellent overall, but no movie has made me say "Wow! Atmos is cool" Heck, maybe I just get so engrossed in the movie that I just don't pay attention to where the sound is coming from.

If I had to do it again though I think I would buy something other than the RSL C34E speakers. Not because I think they are poor performers, but because they seem to require the largest cutout of almost any speaker. So upgrading from them to something else requires drywall work. I never even considered that when I purchased them and built my theater. Now I would love to upgrade to the GoldenEar HTR 7000 because I love the sound of GoldenEar's folded ribbon tweeter but, of course, they are too small for the holes in my ceiling.

All the guy in the video did was unplug all speakers except Atmos. Then he played his 4k disk of the movies, and so only sound he got was through the Atmos ceiling speakers for that track. It isn't actually an Atmos only track, he just literally only had Atmos hooked up.

I don’t know. I’ve found many Atmos clips ultra impressive. More speakers = more precision in the soundstage.

Point taken. I ruined the movie. Although only like a hundred people actually watched the movie because Ryan Gosling said something stupid about it being a human / non American accomplishment. NOT getting to politics here on this forum, but unironically, its the most pro American movie I have ever seen in my life.

Lance Armstrong landing on the moon (Tour de Lune). Is that really a spoiler?

I was kidding, a movie about an event that happened 50 years ago. Hardly a spoiler.

Was Lance on 'roids then?

How else do you think he made it to the moon on a bike?

Considering he's Canadian, it wasn't all that weird that he said he felt it "transcended countries and borders" but I dunno, seems like everyone's mad about everything these days.

So the atmos demo tracks play with full impressive, noticeable atmos but normal stuff does not? Like leaf, or amaze are very good? If this is true, what are your receiver settings for upscaling? Do you have it, for example, set to "Dolby Surround" for all input sources? My anthem receiver does a great job upscaling. Everything feels like I'm in a very big sound bubble. When you play something like Amaze demo track, does the receiver actually show that you're in atmos?

For the main listener, 7.1 is almost zero upgrade over a properly setup 5.1 but 5.1.4/7.1.4 is really a big upgrade not small or incremental.

This has been my overall impression of Atmos, whether in friends' theaters, at CEDIA, commercial theaters, or whatever. The Dolby demos sound great, any actual content sounds pretty "meh" to me. The content designed to showcase the technology does a wonderful job. The technology itself, in real-world situations, is unimpressive to me.

Like Big said - not worth it for an upgrade, but I'll certainly consider it and pre-wire for it if/when I move and start from scratch.

For me, the best experience with atmos is when there are lots of helicopter sounds moving all around the top of your home theater, or when there are people walking above you on roofs on on a boat deck above you, or on tops of cars or buses, etc. That's when it is freaky good.

You know if they can create a phantom center channel with L/R speakers they could create overhead sounds with the side surrounds. Problem is a really small seating sweet spot and there is no money in for the manufacturers, vendors and installers. Gotta move these refrigerators.

I absolutely LOVE ATMOS. Personally i do NOT like up firing reflective speakers. I have a friend with the cheap Onkyo ATMOS speaker system and he loves it. When i go over there i barely can tell it is more than 5.1. I just bought two pair of JBL arena 120 and put them on mounts pointing down from up high. It definitely depends on the source. Disney/Marvel have very weak ATMOS, many call it Dolby "Almost". Streaming isnt very good either. If you try the UHV/Blue ray of Transformers Age of Extinction in a player properly set up and it doesnt knock your socks off maybe ATMOS isnt for you. I also downloaded the Dolby ATMOS demo discs through bit torrent. The 747 demo should really tell you if your system is doing it right.