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post #1 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Advice on Screen Options (general advice welcome too)

Hi everyone.

The main question I have is regarding my screen options but I thought I would give a little background in case there is other relevant advice.

Just moved into a new home and part of the prerequisite was a space in the basement for a home theater. The new house has a space that was previously used as a gym that will work. The room is finished except concrete floors. They had rubber matting down. The room is nearly light locked. The doors have glass panes that I plan to cover somehow.

The room has the following dimensions (LxWxH): 17.3 ft. x 10.9 ft. x 8.9 ft. It's a bit smaller than I would have liked but the house was otherwise perfect for what we wanted.

I plan to repaint in greys and build a riser and carpet the floor. Insulation in the riser for soundproofing. 2 rows of seats with 2 seats in front and 3 in the back. As far as a projector I plan to go with an Epson 4010. There is a closet behind the theater and I am considering placing the projector in there and cut open a hole to project through.

11.1.4 Atmos with in-ceiling speakers and bookshelf speakers for surrounds and rears. Front speakers will be towers. At this point, I'm leaning towards Klipsch RP-8000f with RP-600M as surrounds and rears.

I had originally planned for a traditional center speaker until I started researching here and there was a general consensus that a 3rd tower for the center is much preferred over a traditional center placed below the screen. I like this idea but it changes things drastically and that's what led me to this post.

After a bit of research here, it seems I have a few options.

1. Drop down electric screen. I would need an acoustically transparent screen and preferably tensioned. A bit pricey at this point given my budget has grown Nothing would be behind the screen so I don't need the screen to retract.

2. Build a false wall and place the screen on it. Do I place the RL towers in the false wall?

3. Place a curtain on the wall and extend supports out to have the screen "float" Sort of like this.

I'm thinking option #3 but this seems less mainstream. Don't want to ruin the theater by going down this route and it looks out of place.

Also any advice on screen size? A 120" will fit and give me just over 12" on either side. Not a lot and that puts the towers against the wall, though I will angle them in a bit. Was reading a post were someone went smaller and regretted it and they gave the advice to go with a larger screen size.

Thanks!!
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post #2 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayj View Post
Hi everyone.

The main question I have is regarding my screen options but I thought I would give a little background in case there is other relevant advice.

Just moved into a new home and part of the prerequisite was a space in the basement for a home theater. The new house has a space that was previously used as a gym that will work. The room is finished except concrete floors. They had rubber matting down. The room is nearly light locked. The doors have glass panes that I plan to cover somehow.

The room has the following dimensions (LxWxH): 17.3 ft. x 10.9 ft. x 8.9 ft. It's a bit smaller than I would have liked but the house was otherwise perfect for what we wanted.

I plan to repaint in greys and build a riser and carpet the floor. Insulation in the riser for soundproofing. 2 rows of seats with 2 seats in front and 3 in the back. As far as a projector I plan to go with an Epson 4010. There is a closet behind the theater and I am considering placing the projector in there and cut open a hole to project through.

11.1.4 Atmos with in-ceiling speakers and bookshelf speakers for surrounds and rears. Front speakers will be towers. At this point, I'm leaning towards Klipsch RP-8000f with RP-600M as surrounds and rears.

I had originally planned for a traditional center speaker until I started researching here and there was a general consensus that a 3rd tower for the center is much preferred over a traditional center placed below the screen. I like this idea but it changes things drastically and that's what led me to this post.

After a bit of research here, it seems I have a few options.

1. Drop down electric screen. I would need an acoustically transparent screen and preferably tensioned. A bit pricey at this point given my budget has grown Nothing would be behind the screen so I don't need the screen to retract.

2. Build a false wall and place the screen on it. Do I place the RL towers in the false wall?

3. Place a curtain on the wall and extend supports out to have the screen "float" Sort of like this.

I'm thinking option #3 but this seems less mainstream. Don't want to ruin the theater by going down this route and it looks out of place.

Also any advice on screen size? A 120" will fit and give me just over 12" on either side. Not a lot and that puts the towers against the wall, though I will angle them in a bit. Was reading a post were someone went smaller and regretted it and they gave the advice to go with a larger screen size.

Thanks!!
I am not sure if I have a lot to offer in terms of screen selection. However, regarding your last comment, my friend built his home theater and was going back and forth between 100" and 120". He pulled the trigger on a 100" screen and is constantly regretting it. I would not be surprised if he goes bigger soon. I would definitely stick with the 120" unless it is not feasible at all.
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 09:25 AM
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They had rubber matting down.
Did they take it when they moved out?
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Did they take it when they moved out?


No they left the mat. It’s the interlocking tile type.


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post #5 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Advice on Screen Options (general advice welcome too)

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Originally Posted by rogerkris View Post
I am not sure if I have a lot to offer in terms of screen selection. However, regarding your last comment, my friend built his home theater and was going back and forth between 100" and 120". He pulled the trigger on a 100" screen and is constantly regretting it. I would not be surprised if he goes bigger soon. I would definitely stick with the 120" unless it is not feasible at all.


Thanks. That’s where I’m leaning. I will probably mock up something in the room to test the screen and speakers before purchase before I find something won’t work. I still need to confirm the size to seating distance but I think it’s ok.


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post #6 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 10:57 AM
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No they left the mat. It’s the interlocking tile type.
You should consider leaving it in the room, a lot of the pro plans I've built call for a thick rubber mat underlayment to assist with sound isolation and improved tactile feel when building over concrete. You could either build the riser right on top and float a plywood sub-floor on the remainder or float a sub-floor covering the whole room and build everything on top of that.
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post #7 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
You should consider leaving it in the room, a lot of the pro plans I've built call for a thick rubber mat underlayment to assist with sound isolation and improved tactile feel when building over concrete. You could either build the riser right on top and float a plywood sub-floor on the remainder or float a sub-floor covering the whole room and build everything on top of that.


Awesome, thanks for the tip! Makes sense, I’ll probably do that.


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post #8 of 26 Old 06-18-2019, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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At this point I think I’m leaning towards a floating projector screen with curtains instead of a false wall. Easier access and I guess I can go the wall route later if I don’t like it.


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post #9 of 26 Old 06-18-2019, 12:44 PM
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I think that would work fine. Are you thinking of black velvet curtains with a goalpost like design to mount the screen to? To be honest, using the minimalist screen wall method it's not much different than what you are thinking, just with loose curtains instead of fabric stretched over a minimalist frame.

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post #10 of 26 Old 06-19-2019, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that would work fine. Are you thinking of black velvet curtains with a goalpost like design to mount the screen to? To be honest, using the minimalist screen wall method it's not much different than what you are thinking, just with loose curtains instead of fabric stretched over a minimalist frame.


Yes, I was thinking black curtains above, below and to the sides. Probably use some homemade offsets or brackets to mount the screen wherever it has a place to attach to the wall.

What’s the stretched fabric design?




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post #11 of 26 Old 06-23-2019, 05:34 PM
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Yes, I was thinking black curtains above, below and to the sides. Probably use some homemade offsets or brackets to mount the screen wherever it has a place to attach to the wall.

What’s the stretched fabric design?



The options you have as to screen material choices (AT) are greatly dependent upon the PJ being used, and looking I don't see that mentioned.



Opting for a screen in the 120" size gives you several choices. 130"+.....choices become more limited, either in Gain or affordability....or both.


Need to know that PJ.

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post #12 of 26 Old 06-23-2019, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Need to know that PJ.


I had planned to go with an Epson 4010 but now I’m planning to get the Epson 5050ub.



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post #13 of 26 Old 06-24-2019, 02:49 AM
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I had planned to go with an Epson 4010 but now I’m planning to get the Epson 5050ub.

Review this thread and consider the project shown.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...reen-help.html



It's ideally suited for your circumstances....and with the 5050 you have a preponderance of available Lumen. (17'-3" Through-the Wall Throw @ 120" diagonal = 35 fl w/0.7 Gain screen)

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post #14 of 26 Old 06-30-2019, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Review this thread and consider the project shown.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...reen-help.html



It's ideally suited for your circumstances....and with the 5050 you have a preponderance of available Lumen. (17'-3" Through-the Wall Throw @ 120" diagonal = 35 fl w/0.7 Gain screen)


Thanks. I’ve read through it and of course that sent me to various other threads discussing the spandex DIY screen. One thing I didn’t see mentioned is why haven’t manufacturers moved to spandex if it’s affordable and equal or better?

At this point I’m debating that option over a Silver Ticket AT screen. Part of it is adding more DIY stuff when I’m already struggling to find the time for the project. Lol.


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post #15 of 26 Old 06-30-2019, 07:58 PM
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Thanks. I’ve read through it and of course that sent me to various other threads discussing the spandex DIY screen. One thing I didn’t see mentioned is why haven’t manufacturers moved to spandex if it’s affordable and equal or better?
Pretty simple really. They couldn't justify the costs built in.....and the resulting Price, while competing with other known Products. Very hard to convince people to pay more for the same thing they can get for a LOT less elsewhere. Then there is the fact that they want to depend upon a product that cannot be acquired out in the open market.

But....because of several Screen Mfg finally giving DIY-ism it's proper's, they now sell "Screen Material Only" hoping to fill a partial need.

So there...now it's mentioned (...again actually, it been discussed repeatedly elsewhere...) Let's move on.

Quote:
At this point I’m debating that option over a Silver Ticket AT screen. Part of it is adding more DIY stuff when I’m already struggling to find the time for the project. Lol.
The ST-AT Screen will have a more noticeable Weave, and poorer Acoustic properties. (...not terrible, just not at Spandex's level....) Itis slightly higher in gain...which adds to the more noticeable Weave making it all the more noticeable.

The one thing Spandex cannot do is build itself for you, so yeah...if the effort expended doesn't seem to you to be worth the superior visual and aural performance, the ST-AT will step into the gap.

In reality, a Spandex Screen's construction will be less time consuming than many if not most of what you have on your plate.

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post #16 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 03:37 AM
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AT screen, spandex, simple...unless U just gotta spend more.
I’ve used a 100x42 spandex on my JVC RS400, i’ve watched HDR 4K discs and it looks great

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post #17 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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The ST-AT Screen will have a more noticeable Weave, and poorer Acoustic properties. (...not terrible, just not at Spandex's level....) Itis slightly higher in gain...which adds to the more noticeable Weave making it all the more noticeable.

The one thing Spandex cannot do is build itself for you, so yeah...if the effort expended doesn't seem to you to be worth the superior visual and aural performance, the ST-AT will step into the gap.

In reality, a Spandex Screen's construction will be less time consuming than many if not most of what you have on your plate.
Thanks. One other plus I'm seeing is the ability to do a custom size. In a build like mine being able to do something between 110 and 120 inches may be able to get you more real estate as opposed to preconfigured sizes.

Speaking of my build, I laid everything out last night with tape. That brought into question space. Losing the 27" for a fake wall may be a big sacrifice for the build. I've attached 2 pictures with annotations along with a couple of layouts.

We have 2 rows of seats. 3 seats in the rear on a riser and 2 in front on the floor. We need 4 seats and a single row of 4 will not reasonably fit in one row, they will run to the wall. That seems like a challenge with side speakers?

Here are the issues. As is (diagram with rear row up against rear wall), I will have about 8 feet from the first row with head relined to the screen. Because the door position is directly to the left of this row, the side speakers will have to be somewhat behind the first row. I had hoped to optimize this row for sound. Plus this puts the rear row right up against the back wall and limited options for rear speakers at this point.

My thought was to forgo the false wall and use a center speaker above or below the screen to get the extra 27 inches. Then move the front row up a little and move the rear row off the back wall. Then place the sides at 90 degrees to the rear row and optimize the rear row for sound. I uploaded 2 diagrams (not to scale) showing my idea about moving the seats forward and the dilemmas with side and rear speaker placement.

Thoughts on this?
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post #18 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 01:20 PM
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You need to keep in mind that most peoples feet extend past the foot rest on theater recliners.
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post #19 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Advice on Screen Options (general advice welcome too)

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You need to keep in mind that most peoples feet extend past the foot rest on theater recliners.


I based the riser size on the seat manufacturer’s recommendation. They suggested 6 feet. The blues lines in the image are the 6 feet mark with the tan lines being the reclined and unreclined lengths. There are a few inches in the back and front that give a bit of buffer. I guess I could put all that space at the feet and have the rear nearly touch the wall. In the non false wall build I have much more room to maneuver.

Also I have the back of the fully reclined seat set to not overlap the riser which looks to be happening in the picture.

Are you thinking the manufacturer was being a little too conservative in the space needs for the seats?




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post #20 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 05:23 PM
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That room...as shown on the diagram, demands to be reversed.

The proportion of and location of the French Door is the culprit, and it absolutely should NOT be up front

If it was indeed a "Build, fully 1/2 of the French Door would become wall....the half that is currently toward the back wall.


Theaters DO NOT need French Doors!


With a plan looking like / working like what I've posted below, things get almost ideal! I think it should be seriously considered because by doing so you will actually have eliminated almost every compromise you were heading toward.

And Nirvana is as easy as narrowing the Entry! And you can have the 120" screen too!







The benefits are many.

One thing...I didn't see mentioned exactly (...at all...) what Klispch Center Speaker your using, and to accommodate a decent Center Channel configuration (Up/ Down) when you leave the I gotta see why you need so much depth if you leave the RP 8000f out to the sides and not behind the Screen. The
RP-404C Center Channel Speaker is only 13" deep



Lastly, I'd revisit the decision to use the RP-600M s They are deep, heavy, not really ideal at all for surrounds in a narrow Room. Consider instead the RP-402SThey will make both placement and imaging a lot easier to accomplish


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post #21 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 05:31 PM
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I based the riser size on the seat manufacturer’s recommendation. They suggested 6 feet. The blues lines in the image are the 6 feet mark with the tan lines being the reclined and unreclined lengths. There are a few inches in the back and front that give a bit of buffer. I guess I could put all that space at the feet and have the rear nearly touch the wall. In the non false wall build I have much more room to maneuver.

Also I have the back of the fully reclined seat set to not overlap the riser which looks to be happening in the picture.

Are you thinking the manufacturer was being a little too conservative in the space needs for the seats?

If a Chair extends out to 68"(most are more) and you have just 72 inches of Riser, someone sometime will have to"un-recline" to let whomever needs to pass...pass.


If you build a 7' deep riser, that is somewhat more manageable 84" - 68" = 16" of wiggle-by room..




Keep on thinking "No False Wall" At most, positioning the aforementioned RP-404c behind a 14" Floating Screen would be a great option.

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post #22 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Advice on Screen Options (general advice welcome too)

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If a Chair extends out to 68"(most are more) and you have just 72 inches of Riser, someone sometime will have to"un-recline" to let whomever needs to pass...pass.


If you build a 7' deep riser, that is somewhat more manageable 84" - 68" = 16" of wiggle-by room..




Keep on thinking "No False Wall" At most, positioning the aforementioned RP-404c behind a 14" Floating Screen would be a great option.
Yeah I could build out the riser 7” and still not hit the base of the front seats. That’s a good idea.

Are you suggesting a floating screen 14” off the wall to accommodate the rp-404c depth?

What’s the closest you would sit from a 120” and 110” screen? I know it’s preference but I’m getting pretty close at this point especially if I pull the rear seats from the wall and push the front seats forward.







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post #23 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 07:50 PM
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Yeah I could build out the riser 7” and still not hit the base of the front seats. That’s a good idea.

Are you suggesting a floating screen 14” off the wall to accommodate the rp-404c depth?
Absolutely. The Klispch CC spkr is still cumbersome and difficult to position correctly under or over a screen. But on a shelf "centered" behind the Screen....that's what you want,perhaps as much as if not more than almost anything else. I realize and agree that using 3 Matched Towers would be a great option as well. That is not entirely off the Table. The Center could be elevated on a Stand.....but it also will push out that Screen a lot further.

Floaters are easy to make....no problemo! There are all sort of cool things a Floater can lead you into. Your posted link shows an excellent take on the matter. AT Curtains hiding the R&L Mains...Pull-Across Upper Curtain Masking for 2.39:1 presentations (Lens Shift Benefit...)

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What’s the closest you would sit from a 120” and 110” screen? I know it’s preference but I’m getting pretty close at this point especially if I pull the rear seats from the wall and push the front seats forward.
120" diagonal is 106" wide.

110" diagonal is 96" wide,

1:1 ratio screen Width to Eyes is very acceptable w/4K imaging. If you have a Spandex AT Screen, the Epson is fully able to provide a stunningly bright image on it's 0.7 gain surface. The ultra smooth Matte Milliskin weave of the Spandex will prevent you seeing any Screen-based artifacts. (Weave - Morie - Glare )

You can of course fudge a bit further on those distances about 25% (1.25:1 Eyes to Width)

There is a neat, 3 step approach to obtain a fantastic Front Stage presentation...all for a Dime against most other's Dollar.

  1. Floating Adjustable Image Height & Width Screen surface.
  2. Hand Pulled Upper Masking / Fixed Lower Masking Panel
  3. Angled AT Panel Curtains on each Side of Screen, blending with Top Curtain Mask and Fixed Lower Mask,

It's funny that I didn't notice your own mention of possibly using a Floater until I went back looking for your PJ choice. I do wish you could consider a JVC X790r / RS-540 instead.....for the sheer difference in PQ / Contrast....but the 4010 is no slouch if the Pixel Grids on LCD Panels don't / cannot make themselves known. They will be very much smaller than a non-shifted 1080p, and the Spandex will work to suppress any overt effects.

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post #24 of 26 Old 07-01-2019, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Advice on Screen Options (general advice welcome too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It's funny that I didn't notice your own mention of possibly using a Floater until I went back looking for your PJ choice. I do wish you could consider a JVC X790r / RS-540 instead.....for the sheer difference in PQ / Contrast....but the 4010 is no slouch if the Pixel Grids on LCD Panels don't / cannot make themselves known. They will be very much smaller than a non-shifted 1080p, and the Spandex will work to suppress any overt effects.

I’m thinking a 5050ub at this point. Wall will go dark gray and ceiling more towards black. JVC look great but I’m over budget on the projector as it stands.

So door change will likely be a no go at this point. Just trying to compromise with the wife. To be honest I like the French doors but realize they are terrible for the theater. I knew it going in but the house had everything else.

One more option is a single row of 4 seats. It would be tight and go nearly wall to wall but given the dilemma it’s a viable option and it does fit. Then I place the sides slightly behind the seats. I’m liking your suggestion of the rp-402s for sides and rears. I was thinking the 600s to be highly directional but at this point the 402s may help a lot with profile and staging as you suggest.

So 4 seats, 1 row. 120” floating screen. Maybe even with another 8000f as a center. Then use 402s as side and rears?





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Last edited by hayj; 07-02-2019 at 07:55 AM.
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post #25 of 26 Old 07-02-2019, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are a couple of diagrams for a single row of 4 seats with the rp-402s as rears and sides.
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Keep in mind with the RP-402 s you can place them just behind the first row for best effect. That would be right at the Rear Framed edge of that damnable French Door.


I see the potential of 4 seats up front and 3 in the rear.....don't fudge on having that extra rear row. The 402 s give you additional flexibility in seating / listening so use it to your advantage.


What is the measurement from the rear edge of the Door's Frame to the left rear corner of the room?

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