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post #1 of 46 Old 06-19-2019, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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New to theatre construction - need advice

After about 10 years or so, I have finally worn down the wife and she has agreed to let me put in my theatre I've been whining about all this time! I'm both excited and terrified about going forward from here as I have little knowledge as to what to do now.

I bought the Sony VPL-VW695ES projector so far. Now I need to figure out the rest. I have attached (I hope) the floor plan ideas of the space I have to work with.

Unfortunately, my room is not ideal by any means, but I'm working with what I have.

If you look at the floor plan, you can see a red outlined area. This area has an 8' ceiling. The area where I have the false wall drawn with the screen on it is right under an air conditioning duct, which makes the ceiling height here 7' exactly. The rest of the area outside the red line is also 7' tall, but is just there for design purposes and I guess could be removed if absolutely needed (although I'd rather avoid that cost if possible).

The bottom right corner is at an angle because there is a hallway behind there and I can't do anything about it, so the bottom left corner was put in as an angle wall as well to make the room more uniform. In the top right of the theatre room, you will see a support pole. It is outside where the walls are, which is why I was thinking of building this false wall to hide that, and to perhaps put in-wall speakers. This wall is not built yet, but the rest of the walls are.

- This room has full light control, but would probably keep the wall lights on a bit when the wife is with me. They are shown on the picture as the circles with an x through them (there are 4).
- I want to do a CIH setup.
- The plan is to do a 7.2.4 setup. The sides and rear surrounds are going to be in/on-wall speakers (yet to be purchased, but probably Monitor speakers as I can get a bit of a deal on all of them).
- The front speakers are either going to be floor standing Monitor Silver 500 speakers (https://www.monitoraudio.com/en/prod...er/silver-500/), or will go full in wall speakers with Monitor CP-IW460X speakers (https://www.monitoraudio.com//en/pro...nce/cp-iw460x/) for the fronts .

The theatre will be used for movies, tv watching, and gaming (in that order of priority).

The room is 18' long and 15.5' wide.

I have 4 possible versions: full screen wall built, partial screen wall for LF and RF speakers only, or just put curtains or something behind the speakers to hide the ceiling pole, or flipping the room around and building a screen wall on the bottom wall instead (I could take out the drop ceiling everywhere but where the seats would be to give an 8' celing instead with that design).

Here are the questions I have at the moment. I've been searching around several other threads, other sites, and everywhere else I can think of, but I still would like some help here.

1. How much image quality is lost by using an AT screen? If I go with this screen wall idea, I would perhaps put in an AT screen to make the look clean. However, I'm terrified to make the wrong choice as I would hate to see a poor image because I went with an AT screen.
2. Since the ceiling is only 7' tall where the screen (might) go, would it be better for me to put in a 16:9 screen or a 2.4:1 screen? I want a CIH setup, but want to maximize as much as I can (and as much as my projector can do without distortion). If the budget allows, perhaps I could put in a Stewart VistaScope screen to auto-mask, but I am guessing that would be well over the budget.
3. How close to the ceiling can I put the screen? Can I put a framed screen right up against the ceiling (so the frame touches, and the viewable area is the frame thickness away from the ceiling)? I was thinking of using velvet on the ceiling (if it's possible to do it without any wrinkles or looking like crap) and perhaps the entire screen wall to minimize the amount of light reflecting off the ceiling since it's so close.
4. Since the wall isn't built yet, I could instead put the screen on the top wall of this room, and then build out some sort of partial wall sections to hold the LF and RF speakers (and to hide the support pole). You can see this in the "floor plan with partial walls" jpg attachment.
5. I could instead forget any walls, and instead buy some curtains to go left and right of the screen in order to hide the support pole.
6. If instead I flipped the room around, the seating would be on the top wall, and I would then build a screen wall on the bottom wall side, and could take out the drop ceiling here to give an 8' ceiling). This would be my last choice, but will do it if it's much better.
7. What colour screen should I go with for my projector?
8. What screen gain would give the best image quality for my 695ES projector?

I've all but ruled out an ambient light reduction screen because of the viewing angle restrictions as the kids prefer to be on the floor in beanbag chairs, and people will be viewing from the entire width of the room. I don't want a dull image if I'm not in the sweet spot. If I'm wrong here, please let me know.

I'm looking forward to hearing some advice about your recommendations, and to help me with the room design choices I have.
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post #2 of 46 Old 06-19-2019, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Just for clarity, my stack will go in the top room on the right wall (where the white box is).
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post #3 of 46 Old 06-19-2019, 01:30 PM
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With only a 7' high area where your screen is going, I would recommend a CinemaScope screen over a 16:9. Though not optimal, I would probably mount the screen up against the ceiling if needed, though I would paint the ceiling flat black, or best yet use velvet to minimize the reflection.

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post #4 of 46 Old 06-19-2019, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
With only a 7' high area where your screen is going, I would recommend a CinemaScope screen over a 16:9. Though not optimal, I would probably mount the screen up against the ceiling if needed, though I would paint the ceiling flat black, or best yet use velvet to minimize the reflection.
The screen will be on the upper wall (on the attachments). I was thinking the screen would have to be a 2.4:1 aspect ratio due to the height restriction of my wall. I plan on either doing velvet on the ceiling (if I can find someone capable of doing that without any wrinkles), or I will use the darkest flattest black paint I can find and paint the ceiling.
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post #5 of 46 Old 06-20-2019, 04:57 PM
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Exactly what is in the narrow room up top, by the stack?

It's but a one row theater, so the 7' height doesn't impact much. My approach would be a 16x9 screen, with an upper sliding masking panel. I'd be thinking the bottom of the screen about 16-18" off the floor.

An AT screen would definitely something I would use. No idea what's in that upper space, but it could be hardworking if empty, and the theater's entry works from up top, circulation space-wise.
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post #6 of 46 Old 06-24-2019, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Exactly what is in the narrow room up top, by the stack?

It's but a one row theater, so the 7' height doesn't impact much. My approach would be a 16x9 screen, with an upper sliding masking panel. I'd be thinking the bottom of the screen about 16-18" off the floor.

An AT screen would definitely something I would use. No idea what's in that upper space, but it could be hardworking if empty, and the theater's entry works from up top, circulation space-wise.
Thanks for the advice.

I've actually convinced myself that if I flip the room around and put the screen on the south wall, and tear out the false bulkheads around the ceiling all the way around until it reaches the airconditioning duct that will now be above the seating, this will give me 8'2 ceilings, which allows for a bigger screen.

I think a 16x9 screen is what I will do because of the IMAX Enhanced and some tv watching on this screen. The question I still have is whether to use AT screens or put towers on the floor instead and use a solid screen. I'm more concerned with video quality than I am with audio (to a point), so that is why I worry about seeing the textures on a woven screen, especially if I move the seating closer to perhaps put in a second row. I've been looking everywhere to find proof either way of how much the video is impacted.

According to https://www.projectorcentral.com/Son...ulator-pro.htm, I can get a maximum 16x9 screen size of 151" diagonal if my throw distance is 15'-1", which is around the distance I could realistically throw to as long as I use a 2.05x zoom range. Does the zoom cause distortions?

I potentially could put the projector in the second room and notch out the wall if I needed a longer throw, but the air conditioning duct will be a bit in the way I think.
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post #7 of 46 Old 06-24-2019, 07:39 PM
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A larger non AT screen will push your center channel down low, and that's early reflections from the floor. If you like muddy dialog, that's one way to achieve it.

You want to be able to take in the entire screen and any action on it, without moving your eyes or head. I do like the idea of a larger AT screen, but there are
ergonomic limits to what is wise to do. A really good room is all about a balance, not about an overly big screen.

I bet if you went and saw an AT screen in action, you would be impressed, and that worry about video quality wouldn't be a concern. A reflective screen often has texture also,
so don't sit too close. Our eyes don't resolve as much as we think they do.

I would definitely take the extra volume and the taller room height. Why would the air conditioning duct be in the way? Most projectors mount at the top edge of the
screen. And so don't make the screen too big.
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post #8 of 46 Old 06-24-2019, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlycow View Post
Does the zoom cause distortions?

You shouldn't plan a theater at the limits of the zoom just because you need a margin for error. As for distortion ALL lenses distort images, it is just a matter of whether you can detect it with the naked eye. With the Sony you are thinking about it shouldn't be an issue.
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post #9 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 03:29 AM
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The best optical performance is usually somewhere in the middle of the zoom range. You might be able to see a bit of pin-cushioning on an overly large flat screen with a static image, but
when it's video, that's harder to see.

So where exactly is the air condition ductwork and how does it run? Ideally, you want to take all the obstacles and physical challenges in a space, and hide them or work around them
to either minimize them visually, and sonically. There was several reasons I reached for an AT screen for your space. It will hide a lot of visual AV clutter, and calm the space. You can easily
treat the front wall and angled wall section acoustically, while hiding the angle wall. It also might allow you to embed the projector in a hush box, in the back wall, which will remove heat, and
fan noise from the room, as the front wall could have a little flex in placement to work well with the projector. I also like the idea of a larger 16x9 screen, where one can build an easy masking
system, and accomplish much inexpensively, with very good results.

So the stack is an av rack?
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post #10 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
The best optical performance is usually somewhere in the middle of the zoom range. You might be able to see a bit of pin-cushioning on an overly large flat screen with a static image, but
when it's video, that's harder to see.

So where exactly is the air condition ductwork and how does it run? Ideally, you want to take all the obstacles and physical challenges in a space, and hide them or work around them
to either minimize them visually, and sonically. There was several reasons I reached for an AT screen for your space. It will hide a lot of visual AV clutter, and calm the space. You can easily
treat the front wall and angled wall section acoustically, while hiding the angle wall. It also might allow you to embed the projector in a hush box, in the back wall, which will remove heat, and
fan noise from the room, as the front wall could have a little flex in placement to work well with the projector. I also like the idea of a larger 16x9 screen, where one can build an easy masking
system, and accomplish much inexpensively, with very good results.

So the stack is an av rack?
The air conditioning duct is right at the north end of the theatre room which means the headroom is down to 7 feet there. I think I am putting the projector behind that north wall and make a cutout for the projector just underneath that duct but low enough so the light beam can reach where the top of the screen is.

The stack is an AV rack and it will be mounted through the east wall of that upper storage room.

Would it be a mistake to have the northern ends of the 2 angle walls be covered in velvet and be part of the screen wall that I will build so it's just wide enough to hold the screen? If it would not look bad, then I will do that.

The kids tend to want to watch TV from the floor on beanbag chairs, so they will be much closer to the screen. Would a woven screen look bad if you were maybe 6 or 7 feet from the screen? That is what I worry about the most and makes me want to put in a solid screen.

Since i have those angle walls, i don't think in wall speakers will be an option unless you can get special speaker mounts that will allow a speaker to be mounted at an angle and then turned in it's mount. If that is not an option, then maybe just putting floor standing LCR is the answer.

I look forward to more of these informed opinions as they are tremendously helpful to me so I can avoid problems before construction starts.

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post #11 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 12:27 PM
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I think @Tedd is on the right track with the room flipped.


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post #12 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlycow View Post
Thanks for the advice.

I've actually convinced myself that if I flip the room around and put the screen on the south wall, and tear out the false bulkheads around the ceiling all the way around until it reaches the airconditioning duct that will now be above the seating, this will give me 8'2 ceilings, which allows for a bigger screen.

I think a 16x9 screen is what I will do because of the IMAX Enhanced and some tv watching on this screen. The question I still have is whether to use AT screens or put towers on the floor instead and use a solid screen. I'm more concerned with video quality than I am with audio (to a point), so that is why I worry about seeing the textures on a woven screen, especially if I move the seating closer to perhaps put in a second row. I've been looking everywhere to find proof either way of how much the video is impacted.

According to https://www.projectorcentral.com/Son...ulator-pro.htm, I can get a maximum 16x9 screen size of 151" diagonal if my throw distance is 15'-1", which is around the distance I could realistically throw to as long as I use a 2.05x zoom range. Does the zoom cause distortions?

I potentially could put the projector in the second room and notch out the wall if I needed a longer throw, but the air conditioning duct will be a bit in the way I think.

In my experience, using optical zoom doesn't have an impact on image quality. I have the same projector and have it zoomed in almost to the max, throwing a 110" diagonal screen (back wall to front wall is 13'2") and it looks great. I have a fixed screen that is not AT, but have seen a few other AT screens and most times, I couldn't tell much difference, but one of the guys I talked to said he did feel like the AT screen was a little less bright, but not sure if that is the case or not. If you will be throwing onto a 150 inch screen, you may need to run this projector in it's brightest bulb setting, which means the fan noise is going to be a bit on the high side, so keep that in mind when mounting and placing your seating. As for screen, you probably want to stick with a matte white screen with 1.0 or 1.1 gain, depending on how far back the projector is going to be placed and what kind of lumens you are going to get.
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post #13 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 01:03 PM
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I had hobbit tier ceiling heights in my build so I know your pain well. A lounger type sofa allows big screen without projector angle shadow conflicts.

My screen is 150" diagonal (16:9) and is the near the max picture possible in the range (-3"). I used the projector central calculator and I have the lowest end of JVC's projector lines (RS440 / x590r).

I have no issues with focus and the image universally looks fantastic. If you go close to the screen it looks a little soft, but 10-12 ft back, its no problem. I autocallibrated it using JVC tool and the contrast, blacks and color accuracy are fantastic although my brightness is on the low side. I might have lucked out on a good lens, but I think JVC is pretty good at QC from my research.

I cannot speak to the Sony, but I just wanted to confirm that projector central's calculator was fantastically accurate for my needs (anecdotal).

I really like a big screen but I am aware I am outside of the rule of thumb viewing angle limits with my screen size (i.e, 40 degrees). I also have a 0.7 gain screen (spandex), but my room is covered in black / velvet so the brightness artificially looks brighter than measured. You can buy 1.0 gain AT 4k screens now, but I could not justify the $1400+ price premium for +0.3 gain, but I understand I am a cheapskate.

MississippiMan convinced me in using Spandex for my diy AT screen. Audio is great. I could never go back to seeing front speakers again....

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post #14 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 03:38 PM
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I can give you a list on why it's advantageous to flip the room, but why are you hanging onto that orientation?

Is it about trying to hide that support post, and being able to have a fully symmetrical looking room (even if it will reflect audio to the seating).
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post #15 of 46 Old 06-25-2019, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I can give you a list on why it's advantageous to flip the room, but why are you hanging onto that orientation?

Is it about trying to hide that support post, and being able to have a fully symmetrical looking room (even if it will reflect audio to the seating).
I changed my mind and am flipping the room around. It just means I have to pay a contractor to rip out my dry walled ceiling with potlights, and then redo it all. I was hoping to save the expense, but I think I need to. I'm already preparing how to explain this to the wife 😉.

It was also to keep room symmetry and so j could put in my planned rope lighting around the raised part of the ceiling behind crown moulding. That is no more.

Now it's determining how to handle the angle walls for the screen wall and how to mount velvet so it looks good...not just pinning velvet to the wall.

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post #16 of 46 Old 06-27-2019, 05:58 AM
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I don't think you need to rip it out at all...

Save the expense. The answer could be as simple as some fabric covered drywall. And be rather cheap to do.You could simply add a slim soffit, side wall to side wall. That could add some texture and also suck up light coming off the screen.
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post #17 of 46 Old 06-27-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think you need to rip it out at all...

Save the expense. The answer could be as simple as some fabric covered drywall. And be rather cheap to do.You could simply add a slim soffit, side wall to side wall. That could add some texture and also suck up light coming off the screen.
I need to rip out the whole lowered ceiling portion everywhere except the part around the air conditioning vent in order to raise my ceiling height to 8'.6". Otherwise I'm back to having a small 2.35:1 screen instead of a large 16x9 one.

I now need to put the projector in the north room and punch a hole in that wall to keep the projector from being something I smash my head into as I'm tall.

Can a projector be mounted to the ceiling on a mount that is about 3 or 4 feet long or do I need to build some sort of platform to place it on instead? I need to drop it below the air conditioning vent as it will be just north of where that is and the projector needs to be low enough to clear that so the beam can reach the top of the screen on the south wall.

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post #18 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 03:29 AM
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What is up with all the &#115,e "stuff" for an s? Is the keyboard set for English?

You should google the projector manual in pdf, and that will tell you all you need to know about mounting heights, and throw distances needed.
Just how big is this air conditioning vent, that seems to be forcing your projector lower?

You can drop a projector by an extension pipe, of that is needed.
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post #19 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
What is up with all the &#115,e "stuff" for an s? Is the keyboard set for English?

A known issue by users of certain devices: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/43-fo...364-115-s.html
I've been reporting the posts and they somehow get fixed. Gnarly is using one.

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post #20 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 05:13 AM
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I've seen projectors on 12+ ft poles.
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post #21 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
What is up with all the s,e "stuff" for an s? Is the keyboard set for English?

You should google the projector manual in pdf, and that will tell you all you need to know about mounting heights, and throw distances needed.
Just how big is this air conditioning vent, that seems to be forcing your projector lower?

You can drop a projector by an extension pipe, of that is needed.
Not sure what you mean by s,e stuff. I don't see any of that.

The air conditioning vent is only a foot tall. However the ceining height in the north room is 11 feet where the height is lower by my theatre because the room above has a sunken room.

That is why I would need to go from 11 feet down to just below 7 feet.
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post #22 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 06:29 AM
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post #23 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. Not sure how to fix that as it looks ok to me.
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post #24 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 07:01 AM
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did you read this?: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/43-fo...364-115-s.html

Seems to be a hardware/software compatibility issue. I'm using Firefox on a Windows 10 Dell PC

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post #25 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
did you read this?: http://https://www.avsforum.com/foru...15-s.html

Seems to be a hardware/software compatibility issue. I'm using Firefox on a Windows 10 Dell PC
I'm on my Samsung S10 phone using the official avsforums.com app. If this just started happening, perhaps an app patch went out and broke it. I will reinstall the app to see if that fixes things.
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post #26 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 07:11 AM
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this is just funny


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post #27 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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this is just funny


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I'm now using chrome. Is this any better?
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post #28 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 07:50 AM
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post #29 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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nope
Sesesesesese
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post #30 of 46 Old 06-28-2019, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Seseseeese
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