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post #31 of 120 Old 07-11-2019, 09:13 AM
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I have several reasons for the room flip. One can hide some of that extensive soffit and create a screen soffit. And if there's 6" of so of open space open
above the screen wall, then a DIY could build a 16x9 AT screen AND do a sliding upper mask panel, and leverage a fair amount of things, in an inexpensive
manner.
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post #32 of 120 Old 07-11-2019, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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That's a electrical hot water tank and highly movable. But I wouldn't have to pay to have it moved, I would do it myself. (That can be a gamechanger for the door location.)
But it would be a day's leisurely work, and all of $20 to do, plus find a way for the pressure relief value drain routing.
I already have a plumber coming in to install a utility sink, install the necessary lines for the washing machine and to move a water line that runs along the top of Wall A...so relocating that HW tank a few feet at that time is a no brainer if I wanted to do it. I could have it relocated just in front of the sump pump and still get the tank inside the area that I want to close off from the laundry area. I will likely remove the drain line from the HW tank altogether anyway. I also have a condensate line running from the furnace over to that same drain in the floor that will also be rerouted by the plumber (it currently runs along the back of Wall F).

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Check your furnace service manual for what's need combustion and service-wise, for that near bathroom wall. And think what's need for a fan blower motor replacement.
I showed my HVAC guy how close I plan to run a wall next to it and he was good with it. Plenty of room on the other side of the furnace to access, repair, etc.

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I kind of thought you were a knowledgeable DIY'er/serial renovator because of some of the issues you pointed out, like not being able to embed electrical boxes behind drywall. I see
I missed the word contractor that you used in post 1 so that kind of changes the cost/reward of some previous suggestions.
No worries at all. I am a fairly handy person but there are certain things that I will sub out for this like plumbing, electrical, HVAC, framing, drywall etc. I plan to remove the existing carpet/drywall/trim myself, build the rack in my equip room (after the equip room is built), build the stage, trim out the room with chair rail/box molding, install equipment, PJ, speakers, all wiring, etc. I just don't have the time to do the major stuff like framing and drywall...as it is way too time consuming for our lifestyle right now!

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So how wide is the theater? And I gather that's a 3 piece bath you are after? What will be the access to the storage, and are you planning for that to have access to the rest of the basement?
Just asking questions because I see options that may, or may not work for you.
The theater room is about 12'5" give or take an inch.

The bathroom - if we do it - is just going to be a small half bath with a vanity/sink, a toilet and a low ceiling. We would likely have a pocket door between it and the laundry room. However, there is a chance that we are going to abandon the bathroom altogether. I like the convenience but I do not like the idea of putting in a pump-up ejector system that close to my HT room. Our last house we had odor issues every once in a while and, needless to say, it was very unpleasant! When the plumber was out a few weeks ago he was talking about digging that ejector basin right around where the HW heater is now so if we ever rough-in for that...that tank would likely have to be moved anyway.

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post #33 of 120 Old 07-11-2019, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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@Tedd always has great suggestions.

Interjecting a thought with regards to whether or not to flip the room around.... My experience (FWIW) is that most people prefer a scenario where a shorter ceiling height exists where the screen is mounted versus where they sit, as compared to the other way around. If the room height is larger where the screen is and shorter where the people sit/stand, they tend to feel like they are in a cave and being squashed. It is subtle and people will get used to it either way, but the initial feeling is going to be that way for most people. If the ceiling height is lower where the screen is mounted, it creates a sort of tunnel-vision effect, which is fine for movie watching. It simply focuses one's visual attention, which is what you want in the first place.
Well said @HT Geek . That is probably the biggest reason why I am swaying towards flipping the room. To hear it like that really cinched it for me I think. Your point about the tunnel-vision effect is spot on, particularly on the screen wall. In my last room I had my snack ledge underneath a bulkhead (which was exactly 80" too) and while I never felt too cramped under there, I would have felt a lot better with a few extra inches above me...that is for sure. I'll get that extra 7-8" of height in the back of the room now.
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post #34 of 120 Old 07-11-2019, 10:48 AM
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I'm just going to toss out another random thought for you.... If you are DIY-inclined (which you seem to be), you can save substantial $ by performing as much as possible of the electrical work yourself. I completely understand if - for example - you don't feel comfortable wiring new circuit breakers. However, running wiring in serial to outlet boxes is a relatively simple affair. Furthermore, you should plan on sealing those boxes with putty, so you'll need to mess with them in some capacity anyway. The hardest part (IMO) is making sure they are recessed correctly, since you are considering clips & channel and double-drywall.

If you're willing to do that work yourself but you don't want to mess with the circuit breakers, what I would suggest is pay an electrician to wire each new breaker, and install a wire run to the 1st outlet. Then you can flip off the breakers, run your own Romex, and rough-in your other outlets, saving $$ in labor.

And optionally... consider using 10-gauge wire. It's more expensive, but will allow you to upgrade to 30-amp circuits in the future by simply replacing receptacles. I would only do that for wiring to your equipment rack. There is no need to do it for in-room wiring or lighting. And don't do it unless you will use that gauge wiring (or thicker) along the entire path, between all outlets.

Another reason to mostly-DIY the electrical is you can get the electrician in early on in the process, but delay decisions such as where you want recessed lighting (if any) until just prior to the drywall. That allows you to move the project forward while continuing to play with some variables.

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post #35 of 120 Old 07-11-2019, 02:00 PM
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Does the laundry room sink and washing machine need to be ejected?
Where is the waste stack?

You really won't be hanging out near the screen at all, past the construction stage....
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post #36 of 120 Old 07-11-2019, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Does the laundry room sink and washing machine need to be ejected?
Yes, plumber's scope includes installing a self-contained pump that will handle ejecting washing machine and sink. They are tying into the horizontal waste line just above so as not to disrupt the existing clean-out port (for obvious reasons)
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post #37 of 120 Old 07-16-2019, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Last night I made a little progress and was able to get all of the insulation down from the backside of both walls down and bagged up. Getting closer to being ready to demo drywall.

Best news of all. My wife and I jointly made the decision to scrap the bathroom that we were trying to squeeze in next to the laundry area. It's just too small (you wouldn't be able to swing a cat in there) plus a huge hassle to put in a sump ejector pit. So, our laundry area doubled in size which will allow for some cabinets and counter tops. We might even be able to keep our extra refrigerator in there too...who knows.

I also moved the location of the laundry room entry door on Wall F yet again. It is now just 32" from the back wall. I've decided to move the snack ledge forward in the room so that the front of it will be right up against the back of my 1st row of seating. This is how I had it configured in my last room as well. I made the change for several reasons: 1) It will open up the back of the room more so that I can consider cabinets/countertop/beverage fridge and 2) when you enter the room now at the bottom of stairs you have a straight walkway (aisle if you will) across to the laundry room door (you won't walk right into the side of the snack ledge as you would have before). The only negative in this adjustment is that now I have to play with where and at what depth in the room can I hang the PJ and still get a straight shot to the front wall.

Just outside the room in the laundry area I decided to push the yet-to-be-built closet (that will house the HW heater and sump pump) back a bit to a depth of 44". This move allowed me to move the laundry room door further back in the HT room which also increased the size of the laundry area - so it is a win-win.

Next step is to remove existing drywall from the walls and from the bulkhead above in the front of the room.

Is it recommended to remove the drywall from around the beam that crosses the middle of my room or, for soundproofing purposes, can I leave it as-is and just go over it with another layer of DW+GG? Do people actually use clips and channel when they finish soffits, box out beams, ducts, etc.? The carpenter that boxed out the beam did a good job and hardly left any room in there to spare so that's good. It sure would be nice to be able to leave the DW alone on this...but I have a feeling it needs to be stripped out as well...

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post #38 of 120 Old 07-16-2019, 01:53 PM
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Sounds good regarding the change-of-plans for bathroom and laundry room.

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Next step is to remove existing drywall from the walls and from the bulkhead above in the front of the room.

Is it recommended to remove the drywall from around the beam that crosses the middle of my room or, for soundproofing purposes, can I leave it as-is and just go over it with another layer of DW+GG? Do people actually use clips and channel when they finish soffits, box out beams, ducts, etc.? The carpenter that boxed out the beam did a good job and hardly left any room in there to spare so that's good. It sure would be nice to be able to leave the DW alone on this...but I have a feeling it needs to be stripped out as well...
Regarding the bulkhead, yes it's recommended to demo that drywall and do-over in DD/GG glory. If you don't mind demo'ing the drywall in 2 stages, you could wait. However, I think you'd just make more work for yourself and drag out the process.

Your overall options will become clearer once you have demo'd the existing space. It's tough when it's your own home. Ask yourself if you don't do it and get flanking noise when you're done, will you regret not using clips? It is hard for me to imagine you not demoing those parts as well, given the effort you are going to. Perhaps that carpenter would be worth considering for some of the work you will need help with.

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post #39 of 120 Old 07-16-2019, 05:44 PM
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a couple of thoughts:
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post #40 of 120 Old 07-17-2019, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Regarding the bulkhead, yes it's recommended to demo that drywall and do-over in DD/GG glory. If you don't mind demo'ing the drywall in 2 stages, you could wait. However, I think you'd just make more work for yourself and drag out the process.
That is no problem at all. I am just glad to hear that I can get away with DD/GG and that I will not have to hassle with any clips and channel on the framing around the beam.

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Your overall options will become clearer once you have demo'd the existing space. It is hard for me to imagine you not demoing those parts as well, given the effort you are going to.
You are exactly right. Last night I removed just a little bit of DW and that alone started to open things up. I only removed the DW from the two angled walls that are being removed to square out the space. Now I am itching to get the rest of the DW down so I can really start to plan and shape the room.

Fortunately for me, our family-owned business specializes in environmental and selective demolition services (mainly Federal, Commercial, Institutional, Hospital and Industrial facilities - NOT residential) so I know how to keep the DW demo pretty clean and simple. We currently have 2 Husqvarna DXR 140 robots in our equipment fleet that are utilized on some of our projects - boy is it a shame that I can't bring in one of our robots to pick off this DW for me! Below is a video of one of them in action on a recent project if any of you are interested:


I am stacking and bagging up the waste in the unfinished area for the time being. I'll have a couple of our guys come out with a dump truck to haul the debris away. Definitely a perk of ownership!

In the first pic below you can see the two lally columns that were just on the other side of the wall. The duct tape on the floor just outside of the room is outlining where the new wall will be built to expand the room. I also temporarily wired up the two fluorescent lights and torn down all of the grid. Lots of pink fluffy stuff still up in the ceiling.








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post #41 of 120 Old 07-17-2019, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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a couple of thoughts:
I like it @Tedd . The suspended rack above the sump pump (in the closet of the laundry room) is worth considering. You know, after I cleaned up last night I was measuring into the unfinished area and I can afford to go about 48" or so into it (behind Wall E). So a false wall may just come into play here if I can figure out how to hide the two lallys that are now exposed. The screen/false wall will have to be just in front of the lallys (about 4-5" inside of where Wall E framing now sits) but I could definitely build a false wall so that the lallys, subs and speakers are behind it. Hell, if I am able to pull it off, I wouldn't even have to screw around with in-walls....I could go with some floor standing speakers back there with my subs and call it a day. Lots to consider.
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post #42 of 120 Old 07-17-2019, 11:36 AM
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You'll also note with the room flip, there doesn't appear to be any obstacles in the way of ATMOS speaker back boxes, nor back boxes for spot lighting.

I myself have a history with used Middle Atlantic av racks, and if I found a nice bargain with some shelves, I would cut it in half and suspend the pair side by side.
Combined with the closet, you could have an active rack.

I actually am going with in walls for the ATMOS channels and surround speakers, coupled with my JTR T8s and Servodrive Contrabass subs. I get the tactile "in your face"
front wall while the surrounds don't have that much throw distance to seating, so they perform well. The in-walls also represent a zero foot print speakers, while also being
situated further off seating. a nicer upside to this, is there are no speakers to knock over, navigate around, or even be seen, with the planned speaker grill fabric panels.

With the AT screen, the room is visually free of speakers. And in your case, with the doors at the back wall, you have a straight run through to the laundry while that space
is leveraged home theater-wise, as separation from the rear surround speakers. You also get the door swings out of the way, as the they can hinge to swing to the back wall.

The front lolly could be simply boxed in, while the other lolly could simply be left exposed. But if that is a steel beam above running continuous, you might see if it could be beefed up
and a new support pad and post, put in the side wall. Many years ago, I moved a support post in this house. The beam was up to the slightly larger spacing, and I broke the floor, dug
down and poured a new pad on undisturbed soil. A new steel support post was added, and the old one was removed, and the floor patched. Might have been all of $200 to do. Why the
original builder needlessly planted a support post 18" off the end of a staircase, is beyond me.

You would still have the air conditioning coolant line to deal with, and do something with.
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post #43 of 120 Old 07-17-2019, 12:09 PM
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That is no problem at all. I am just glad to hear that I can get away with DD/GG and that I will not have to hassle with any clips and channel on the framing around the beam.
Actually... that's not quite what I meant. Perhaps I should have worded my comments differently, but what I meant to suggest was the opposite. For best results, I'd figure out a method of using clips and channel, then DD/GG combo even over the steel beams. Ideally, you don't want those to act as flanking devices. However, I can understand why you may be reluctant to do. I was also suggesting (or attempting to) that you could demo all the other drywall and then reassess your plan. For example, if you're going to find that the whole ceiling gets lowered next to them, then it may be less of a big deal to also isolate the beam(s) with clips and channel. It's just going to depend on the final layout. So, as a result of that thought process, I don't see anything wrong with handling it that way, other than possibly a 2nd drywall clean-up process (which we all know is a P.I.T.A.). LoL.

It's not the end-of-the-world if you ultimately decide to leave the beam(s) as-is and add another layer of drywall and GG on the existing drywall. However, I would lean toward applying the same level-of-effort that you are applying everywhere else. Otherwise, it will always be a weak link. Plus, it's much less of a pain to do it now versus after the room is built if you later think you have an issue with flanking along the beam. Trust me, by the time you get there you'll likely find you'd rather move to a new house and start over versus tear down your masterpiece to the level necessary to resolve it (if it becomes an issue).

Quote:
You are exactly right. Last night I removed just a little bit of DW and that alone started to open things up. I only removed the DW from the two angled walls that are being removed to square out the space. Now I am itching to get the rest of the DW down so I can really start to plan and shape the room.

Fortunately for me, our family-owned business specializes in environmental and selective demolition services (mainly Federal, Commercial, Institutional, Hospital and Industrial facilities - NOT residential) so I know how to keep the DW demo pretty clean and simple. We currently have 2 Husqvarna DXR 140 robots in our equipment fleet that are utilized on some of our projects - boy is it a shame that I can't bring in one of our robots to pick off this DW for me! Below is a video of one of them in action on a recent project if any of you are interested:
That is so cool. Thanks for posting that. Now, just wait until there is a fully automated version you can run on the job-site at night while your workers are sleeping.

I am an IT guy. However, some of my exp has been in the construction industry (mostly network/building architecture design and layout). Just like soundproofing, it is a growing need (oddly enough).

I've seen a demo of an automatic drywall robot prototype. My favorite part was watching it make perfect cuts for receptacles and switches. Amazing what is just a few years out, though widespread adoption will take time. The whole industry could be revolutionized in a decade with regards to some trades. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any (yet) that can handle the demo part automatically, but that's ok. That is often one of the most fun site jobs anyway. LoL.

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The screen/false wall will have to be just in front of the lallys (about 4-5" inside of where Wall E framing now sits) but I could definitely build a false wall so that the lallys, subs and speakers are behind it. Hell, if I am able to pull it off, I wouldn't even have to screw around with in-walls....I could go with some floor standing speakers back there with my subs and call it a day. Lots to consider.
FWIW, I built a false front wall in my room with ~18" behind it. My LCR speakers and 2x 18" Stonehenge subs are mounted on a platform that is decoupled from the stage it sits on. The stage is further decoupled from the floor. With an AT (Acoustically Transparent) screen. I don't see my massive speakers, but I hear them perfectly. No vibration issues.

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post #44 of 120 Old 07-17-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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I myself have a history with used Middle Atlantic av racks, and if I found a nice bargain with some shelves, I would cut it in half and suspend the pair side by side.
Combined with the closet, you could have an active rack.

+1 to Tedd's comments. I'm also a big fan of Middle Atlantic racks (including normal, non-A/V racks). Basically, any solid, standard 19" wide rack will work. Depth is usually the issue. It can be tough to find short-depth racks. If you want MR, whatever you do... do not pay retail!! They are mostly insanely overpriced. I use a 27U SRSR rotating and pull-out wall rack. Cost me ~$200 IIRC. Retails for $1,200. Check Ebay and CraigsList. I got mine from a reseller who had a corp customer return it unopened. He just wanted to get rid of it and I was happy to oblige.




While I'm a big fan of the SRSR racks, they do not hold lots of weight particularly well. Mine has >250lbs. of equipment in it and when pulled out, I support it beneath. Also, just like gun safes, you WILL wish you bought a bigger one. LoL. Your best bet is to get a rack with the ability to access the rear of the rack versus a need to pull it out (the latter being the case for me).


Quote:
The front lolly could be simply boxed in, while the other lolly could simply be left exposed. But if that is a steel beam above running continuous, you might see if it could be beefed up
and a new support pad and post, put in the side wall. Many years ago, I moved a support post in this house. The beam was up to the slightly larger spacing, and I broke the floor, dug
down and poured a new pad on undisturbed soil. A new steel support post was added, and the old one was removed, and the floor patched. Might have been all of $200 to do. Why the
original builder needlessly planted a support post 18" off the end of a staircase, is beyond me.

You would still have the air conditioning coolant line to deal with, and do something with.
+1 on that as well. Why not see if you can move the supports? I would gauge the cost impact first before deciding. Then you can weigh it against the benes. If you do it, I strongly recommend you bite the bullet and hire a P.E. (EDIT: Professional Engineer; i.e. structural engineer; decided to clarify this since anyone not in construction was prolly wondering WTF a P.E. was. LoL. )
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You might be able to move that entire angled wall over, without disassembling it. Just pull any nail into the joists and any into the floor.
Cut off the excess, and build the new front wall.
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post #46 of 120 Old 07-18-2019, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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If I can tackle a little bit each night, I'll have the DW out of this room in no time. Stripped out Wall E last night - all of the framing will need to go too when I build the false wall.

From inside the room:



From outside the room:



Close-up of the two lally columns that were just outside of existing wall E. Both of these will have to be buried behind the false wall because moving them is not an option.

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post #47 of 120 Old 07-18-2019, 04:23 PM
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No surprises there, about what I expected to see, regarding the support structure. I wouldn't touch them and I would simply box them out.

The door framing shows whomever framed the basement was an amateur and not all that knowledgeable.

But all that steel shows there's an opportunity to box the other steel beam, and deal with that post. There might also be an opportunity to
recess a steel beam above the beam, and eliminate the support being in the room.
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post #48 of 120 Old 07-19-2019, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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No surprises there, about what I expected to see, regarding the support structure. I wouldn't touch them and I would simply box them out.

The door framing shows whomever framed the basement was an amateur and not all that knowledgeable.
You are 100% correct. The construction was done in 2008 and it is shoddy as hell. Good news is that it is fairly easy to take apart.

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But all that steel shows there's an opportunity to box the other steel beam, and deal with that post. There might also be an opportunity to
recess a steel beam above the beam, and eliminate the support being in the room.
I am not moving any columns. Gonna work with what I have. The lally column that is in the room luckily does not affect my first row of seating at all. In fact, I am very fortunate that the row of three chairs ends right where it does - next to the column. And I can still keep the row perfectly centered in the room.

Good progress again last night:





Removing the DW on the long wall last night gave me the itch to make the room wider! However, that is impossible due to the location of the furnace.

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post #49 of 120 Old 07-19-2019, 01:02 PM
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Great to see you back at it! Lots here to catch up and read through! Looking forward to following along for sure.

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post #50 of 120 Old 07-20-2019, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I take back everything I said about the shoddy construction. Stripped the DW off the beam earlier this am and it was like wrestling an alligator. What a workout! Leaving the framing up for the time being as it seems to be very well built and square/level. They did not waste any room boxing out the beam so that is great news. Next up to demo is the large bulkhead in the front of the room.





So the measurement from the stud on the front of the boxed out beam to the lally column (see photo below) is exactly 11'. The false wall would be built just in front of the lally column (to the right of the lally in photo) so I would venture to guess the distance front of the false wall/screen to the stud/frame on beam would be about 10'4" - 10'6" when you consider thickness of the false wall (likely 2x4 framing) and the decoupled DD on the beam. Even if I was able to ceiling mount a PJ just in front of the beam or build some sort of a housing, I'd still be looking at a throw in the 8'-9' foot range.



Soooooo, now I am kicking around the possibility of a back wall mount for the PJ. Lally column to back wall measures 21'3" so back wall to false wall/screen would likely be in the 20'9" to 20'11" range. If this is a feasible option, I will likely order the PJ and runs some tests to see exactly what I am working with before I go any further with the build. I can always return it if it doesn't work.

There are several PJs out there that I'd consider but for the sake of this discussion let's use the EPSON 5050UB. It shows a range of 10'4" to 20'6" for a 100" screen (16:9 format). The depth of the 5050 itself is 17.7" so mounted off back wall would put my lens inside that 20'6" range as the lens would likely be somewhere around 19'3" - 19'5" from the screen. NOTE: I have not committed to a 5050 yet...but just using it for the sake of discussion.

It's either try to build a housing off of the framing on the beam (in front or below) or go with a back wall mount. Leaning towards back wall at this juncture because building any sort of housing for the PJ in front of or below the beam is right above my first row of seating so I'd have a noise issue and it would be super low. I still have to work through whether or not it will be feasible to go back wall with a 42" counter height on a snack ledge (and stools) but, again, I could test that with an actual PJ in hand.

Also, the angled wall you see (to the right of the lally column) comes out after I remove the DW from the large bulkhead.

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post #51 of 120 Old 07-20-2019, 07:12 PM
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Have you verified that throw distance and looked at what the light output looks like, at that deep a throw? You also generally don't want a projector at the extremes
of it's throw capability since you either give up lumens, or you start to get some issues due to the lens curvature, at the other end of things. Personally, I'd be aiming for
the projector over the bar and completely out of any circulation space.

They actually made that boxed beam about 5" wider then it needed be. You could do a three sided plywood box, to screw drywall too.

(Anyways, just pointing out some stuff you might not be aware of.)
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post #52 of 120 Old 07-21-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post
Soooooo, now I am kicking around the possibility of a back wall mount for the PJ. Lally column to back wall measures 21'3" so back wall to false wall/screen would likely be in the 20'9" to 20'11" range. If this is a feasible option, I will likely order the PJ and runs some tests to see exactly what I am working with before I go any further with the build. I can always return it if it doesn't work.

There are several PJs out there that I'd consider but for the sake of this discussion let's use the EPSON 5050UB. It shows a range of 10'4" to 20'6" for a 100" screen (16:9 format). The depth of the 5050 itself is 17.7" so mounted off back wall would put my lens inside that 20'6" range as the lens would likely be somewhere around 19'3" - 19'5" from the screen. NOTE: I have not committed to a 5050 yet...but just using it for the sake of discussion.

It's either try to build a housing off of the framing on the beam (in front or below) or go with a back wall mount. Leaning towards back wall at this juncture because building any sort of housing for the PJ in front of or below the beam is right above my first row of seating so I'd have a noise issue and it would be super low. I still have to work through whether or not it will be feasible to go back wall with a 42" counter height on a snack ledge (and stools) but, again, I could test that with an actual PJ in hand.
Sony,

I have to concur with Tedd. Allow me to give you some pointers to consider regarding PJ mounting, throw distance, and seating.

PJ Mounting
This is going to sound cliche', but you don't want it too close, and you don't want it too far away. You have several factors to take into consideration in terms of PJ projection no matter where it is mounted. The ideal location would be in front of your front row of seats, sitting on a table. Obviously, no one wants that. We all compromise one way or another.

Rear Mounted PJ
Rear mounted projector setups can work well, but they typically work best when the room is on the tall side.Think about how the PJ operates. It will be projecting a cone shaped stream of photons downrange. Mounted further away from the screen, you have the opposite problem from a forward mounted PJ. From the rear, you have to worry about that cone being too wide, such that it gets partially blocked too easily by people or objects. Furthermore, you need a more powerful light cannon (as Tedd pointed out).

So, unless you have a really big screen, and/or lots of headroom, that PJ needs to be able to focus high amounts of light into a narrow beam that does not widen appreciably until it gets over the heads of seated movie watchers.

You're going to need to pay special attention to several factors; notably (and this is just a starting point):
  1. PJ light output (you will need a lot)
  2. Long throw distance capability
  3. Mounting height (ensure the beam is fully over everyone's head when seated, and ideally when standing up)
  4. Pay close attention to the angle of the light cone, and it's width at any given point in the room
Now, what if you mount the PJ up close? Then it's opposite land.

Forward Mounted PJ
Forward mounted PJs usually end up just above the heads of the 1st row folks, or thereabouts. Some of the challenges include:
  1. Short throw / Close to screen (can I get it wide enough if the screen is big?)
  2. Vertical adjustment range of the PJ is critical
  3. Ceiling height is needed to clear heads of people standing up and/or avoiding visual blemish for rear seat viewing (PJ in field of vision)
  4. Noise (potentially)

Viewing
Now, let's talk about the viewers.

You're not planning to use a riser, so that helps. Either way, you still need to work out seating distance, eye height, and screen height. All those angles are going to play into what happens when the cone of light from your PJ is heading downrange. This is especially true if the PJ is behind the rear row of seats.

Summing it All Up
Bottom line is I agree with Tedd. I would look at mounting the PJ above your bar seating area. That's likely to be one of your best spots from a lens-to-screen distance perspective. I understand you may be hesitant about that due to the need to pass the light cone beneath the bulkhead above roughly where the 1st row of seats will be. And of course, you don't want anyone in the bar seating area to be distracted by the PJ or bump into it.

Taking another look at the area forward of the bulkhead.... If you want to target that area, your first challenge is you'll need a very short throw PJ. Next, the vertical offset of the PJ needs to be capable of hitting center screen. Where and how will you mount a PJ here? On the ceiling, forward of the bulkhead? That would make a nice place to hide wires, but then you will be running into challenges with vertical offset of the PJ versus screen mounting height. Will you be causing your viewers to walk away with a stiff neck? This is something equally important (perhaps more so) to take into consideration: screen mounting height.

Bottom Line
Don't even consider shopping for a PJ until you are further along with your room. Details can and will change. You need to know exactly where people will sit and what height the screen will be mounted at, and what its dimensions are. Once all that is set in stone (as much as it can be), then start getting serious about the PJ.


You also have bigger fish-to-fry right now, IMHO. I suggest focusing on what you can do about widening the room to its full potential. What would it take to get one or two beam support columns relocated?

p.s. You could consider a rear projection system, since you may have enough room available behind the screen. They are exceedingly rare, but the concept does exist. Their biggest advantage is no PJ in the room. Problem solved! LoL.

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post #53 of 120 Old 07-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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Rear projection would be awesome. Not cheap and there's two support posts there, so you might need to use front reflective mirrors.

You would gain a few other advantages like being able to watch a bright picture with lights on in the theater.
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post #54 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Personally, I'd be aiming for the projector over the bar and completely out of any circulation space.
Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
They actually made that boxed beam about 5" wider then it needed be. You could do a three sided plywood box, to screw drywall too.
That's a great idea. I am having trouble envisioning how would I attach the plywood (OSB) box to the joists so that it would be sturdy/solid enough to take clips and channel with DD? You could hang 50 men from the framing that is there now and it wouldn't budge.
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post #55 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Bottom Line
Don't even consider shopping for a PJ until you are further along with your room. Details can and will change. You need to know exactly where people will sit and what height the screen will be mounted at, and what its dimensions are. Once all that is set in stone (as much as it can be), then start getting serious about the PJ.

You also have bigger fish-to-fry right now, IMHO. I suggest focusing on what you can do about widening the room to its full potential. What would it take to get one or two beam support columns relocated?
Extremely helpful insight there, thank you. I am trying to absorb all of this like a sponge.

I am not sure what it would take to move the columns. I have located the most reputable residential structural engineer in our county (recommended by dozens) and I will likely have to pay him a couple hundred bucks just to come out and evaluate. If you are referring to moving the lally column that is in the middle of the room (near Row 1) I suspect it could be moved out a few feet into the laundry area but I feel like that would not get much resolved. Yeah, it gets the column out of the room (and maybe room for a 4th seat in the row, albeit with skinnier aisles on both sides of the room) but it still does not enable me to actually widen the room due to the location of the furnace. And on the other side of the room I can't go any further out due to the staircase being there. BTW, there is a lally column buried just inside that staircase wall (Wall C) under that beam. When I pull that drywall off in the coming days, that lally column will be exposed (you can actually see it behind the wall when you peek into the storage space underneath the stairs).

Now, if you were referring to moving the two lally columns that are up near the front of the room, well, it will be interesting to see what he says and what would need to be done to eliminate and/or relocate them.

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post #56 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Sony,
Bottom Line
Don't even consider shopping for a PJ until you are further along with your room. Details can and will change. You need to know exactly where people will sit and what height the screen will be mounted at, and what its dimensions are. Once all that is set in stone (as much as it can be), then start getting serious about the PJ.
Great advice!

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post #57 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 05:16 PM
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You could construct a U shaped box, open at the top. Make it taller then the beam, and then attach it to some cross braces recessed up in the floor joist space.

A support post in that wall by the stairs was expected.

As that is a steel beam, it could be boxed, to extend the reach so a new support post and support pad could be hosted in the side wall. You also might get
lucky and the beam is up to handling an or beefed up to handle another 2' of span. Much will depend on the structure above, and the load carried.

That money spent on investigating if the post could be moved, might be the best money spent in the room.

It also appears you could widen the room five or six inches. A short section of wall could be built and covered in cement backer board furnace side, to have offer a
fire-proof surface. And there doesn't appear to be any screws or bolts for service so a wee bit wider space might be an option worth exploring if you are going to
rebuild that wall anyways.

You also could leverage an acoustically transparent front wall and step the wall around the HVAC sheet metal. Then the drain line becomes an obstacle to deal with,
but you might go slightly wider yet.

Is a fourth seat that important? An odd number of seats can get you a time aligned money seat, and you save the cost of a seat.
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post #58 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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More demo progress.



I am planning to demo out the wall above the old door opening on the back of the stairs so that I can open it up more for storage purposes when that area is closed in with new walls.



If that lally column sticks out more than an inch past the front of the stud framing, I'd be surprised. They had it boxed out way more than it needed to be. When I build that wall all the way across, I should be able to work something out so that it is flush and does not have to bump out the DW two inches like they had before.



@Tedd , in terms of building a tighter box around the beam. What are your thoughts on just attaching the top of the box to (what appears to be) a 2x6 running in between the top of the beam and the floor joists? There are nails bent down around the top edge of the beam flange but those could be moved. Then I would just have to make sure the bottom of the new box is perfectly flush with the bottom of the beam and properly screw the sides to the bottom piece. Thickness of plywood (or OSB?) would have to be rather substantial in order to get decent size screws in there. Below are a couple of pics of the beam showing the 2x6 on top. First one is of a section of the beam in the room:



...and 2nd one is of a section of beam outside the room (laundry area):



It looks like the 2x6 overlaps over the flange like 1/8" - 1/4" all the way across the beam. Think I can get away with that or will I have to go with what you suggested inserting cross braces in between joists?
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post #59 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Is a fourth seat that important? An odd number of seats can get you a time aligned money seat, and you save the cost of a seat.
Not at all. I'd rather have more room on the outside for aisles than cram 4 seats across in the room. A total of 6 seats (3 front, 3 back) in the room is very ideal.

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post #60 of 120 Old 07-22-2019, 08:45 PM
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How are you keeping that space so clean during demo LOL

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