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post #61 of 93 Old 07-23-2019, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pkinneb View Post
How are you keeping that space so clean during demo LOL
I am cutting and removing the DW in fairly large sheets so that always helps. I take my time making the cuts with fresh blades and I make sure that I have cut all the way through the DW before I attempt to pop them off. I am quite lucky though that they did not go crazy on the adhesive on the faces of the studs. The walls are just popping right off the studs without a problem.

My wife asked me to leave the carpet in place as long as I could so it is easier on the feet when we are down there. This just means about 15-20 mins of vacuuming with the shop vac after each night down there. It's just a matter of time now before I pull up the carpet, padding and tack strips though (dreading the tack strips - nightmare to remove).
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post #62 of 93 Old 07-23-2019, 05:52 PM
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What type of clips used, would be about how I attach the soffit.

You could add a wee bit more width with some creative framing. And hide those lines to the drain, in wall.
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post #63 of 93 Old 07-25-2019, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Yesterday I came across an article about Phil Kessel (former Pittsburgh Penguin traded to AZ) and how his home outside of Pittsburgh is now on the market. CLICK HERE FOR THE LISTING ON REALTOR.COM HT room photos are included and there is a lot of talk online about why they staged ONE chair for the realtor's photoshoot. I find it hilarious actually.



Anyway, the point of me posting this photo is that it brought something to my attention. This snack ledge is built EXACTLY like the one in my old HT room (except for the supports) however this one connects to a wall on one end. Something to consider for my room. Also, I am kind of digging the sconces that they used in the room.
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post #64 of 93 Old 07-25-2019, 08:20 AM
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I see rooms as such, and think here should be a home theater version of "What Not To Wear".
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post #65 of 93 Old 07-25-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I see rooms as such, and think here should be a home theater version of "What Not To Wear".
Exactly.

I am sure he and his wife kept all of the HT chairs and will ship them to AZ for their new house.

It is photos like these that remind you that people have different priorities in life. If I had the kind of money that Kessel has, my HT room would not look like that, you can bet your life on it!
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post #66 of 93 Old 07-25-2019, 12:31 PM
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He probably really liked the chairs and didn't want to give them up. The inside has nice furnishings and the rest of the basement is nice, but some of the the theater looks like after thoughts. With the length of that room he could have easily done and AT screen set up, but I bet he just had someone through stuff together to get it done. Does give me that idea of turning my plan 45 degrees maybe and still be able to see under the beam.
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post #67 of 93 Old 07-25-2019, 04:10 PM
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I would think that is a home builder's idea of a home theater. Likely built when the home was built.

It has the hallmarks of such. The center channel above the screen, the improper riser elevations, bright reflective finishes, inadequate cooling,
seating on wall boundaries...
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post #68 of 93 Old 07-26-2019, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Structural engineer is coming by this Tuesday morning. Fingers crossed I get the green light to move a column or two and it won’t cost a small fortune.
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post #69 of 93 Old 07-29-2019, 07:07 AM
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Structural engineer is coming by this Tuesday morning. Fingers crossed I get the green light to move a column or two and it won’t cost a small fortune.
How did you go about getting a structural engineer out? I was thinking of doing this, but not sure who to get and if they charge to come out and take a look at the column or not.

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post #70 of 93 Old 07-29-2019, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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How did you go about getting a structural engineer out? I was thinking of doing this, but not sure who to get and if they charge to come out and take a look at the column or not.
I was fortunate enough to find one of the most reputable SE's in our area. He was recommended by over a dozen people so I know he is qualified and reliable. He is charging me $300 to come out and assess my situation. He said that also includes consultation and phone calls after his visit if that is required. Honestly, I don't think it is bad considering what they are qualified to do. If I discover that I can move the column over and bury it in the wall, then $300 well spent! If I can't, well then, I guess I have my really expensive NO!
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post #71 of 93 Old 07-29-2019, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post
I was fortunate enough to find one of the most reputable SE's in our area. He was recommended by over a dozen people so I know he is qualified and reliable. He is charging me $300 to come out and assess my situation. He said that also includes consultation and phone calls after his visit if that is required. Honestly, I don't think it is bad considering what they are qualified to do. If I discover that I can move the column over and bury it in the wall, then $300 well spent! If I can't, well then, I guess I have my really expensive NO!
If I could move mine about 5.5' back I would go with a 20'x25-5" room and two rows of either 5 or 6. I need to call around and see. I am pretty sure mine could be moved. There is to two floor plans for my house. One is where there is a bearing above the column and joist running the length of the house and the one we have where the wall is gone and the upstairs is and open concept. I bet if I move it I would probably have to add another one close the foundation wall to keep the span a certain length. My guess is about 3' and I could hide it behind a AT screen wall.
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post #72 of 93 Old 07-30-2019, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Fantastic news. The structural engineer came by early this am and gave me the green light to move the lally column over 30" so I will in fact be able to bury it in the side wall of the room.

I also had him evaluate the load for the other two columns that are side-by-side where two beams intersect. The way I have the room planned at this time, these two columns would be behind my false wall but yet still inside the room. Since one of the beams terminates up against the other beam, he gave me the green light to remove both of those lally columns if the beams are joined together. I will obviously have to bring someone in to handle that work and he's got a couple of local experienced contractors to recommend. Technically I do not have to remove those two columns since they would be hidden by the false wall so I will evaluate cost and make that decision.

The column in the room is gone though for sure!
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post #73 of 93 Old 07-30-2019, 07:35 AM
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So I guess that's money potentially very well spent...


Could that front beam simply be some steel L plates, with bolt holes framed out to a fab shop, assuming you can drill the steel beams for suitable bolts and nuts?

You could push the front wall forward too.

Maybe you should pull some nails on those sheet metal returns in the theater space, and see if there's maybe a further opportunity to put the beam up into the joist cavity?
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post #74 of 93 Old 08-07-2019, 07:16 AM
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That has to be one of the most asinine laws I've heard of regarding building codes. Sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to some incident. I would understand a restriction on types of extension cords. There are a lot of idiots in the world. However, at least in the U.S., it's not difficult to find higher gauge extension cords for various things. That said, something you cannot do here is install an extension cord inside a concealed space.
It is expected that the electrician knows how to set up a sensible amount of wall sockets for various rooms, and scale the system and split rooms into circuits according to power needs. So in theory there should be no need for extension cords if the electrical system is up to date. The law is there to dissuade people with older systems from simply loading more and more appliances onto ancient circuits from before the electronics-boom with no regard to updating the electrical system.

Homes are also rather small in Norway compared to the US, so its not so insane to update the electrical system when you renovate.

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In my HT, I have 4 circuits that feed into my HT room. I know that sounds like overkill, but they break down like this:
  1. Refrigerator and hallway lighting immediately outside HT room
  2. Lighting inside HT room
  3. Dedicated circuit to equipment rack
  4. Dedicated circuit to equipment rack
I am a proponent of over-doing electrical capacity. You will never regret having too much power available!
If only the jokers from 30-40 years ago thought to at least oversize the capacity of the main fuse and its wires to the fuse box then in Norway we would not have to effectively replace the entire system today.

I'm 110% for scaling power capacity for some thought-to-be-insane level because its virtually no more expensive to do it when you're already changing the electrical system, and its hugely expensive to re-do it later.

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post #75 of 93 Old 08-07-2019, 07:23 AM
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It is expected that the electrician knows how to set up a sensible amount of wall sockets for various rooms, and scale the system and split rooms into circuits according to power needs. So in theory there should be no need for extension cords if the electrical system is up to date. The law is there to dissuade people with older systems from simply loading more and more appliances onto ancient circuits from before the electronics-boom with no regard to updating the electrical system.
Ah, I see. Job security for electricians.

I may have to consider moving to Norway and becoming a licensed electrician there for my next career move! LoL.

Quote:
I'm 110% for scaling power capacity for some thought-to-be-insane level because its virtually no more expensive to do it when you're already changing the electrical system, and its hugely expensive to re-do it later.
Yes, agreed. My wife thought I was crazy, but as you said the cost difference was minimal. I also installed over-capacity wiring on the two circuits that feed the equipment rack to ensure 1) cool running wire under load; and 2) an upgrade path to 30-amp/120vac or (theoretically) 240vac circuits in the future if desired (though I can't imagine why anyone would want 240vac up there, but what the heck?). Those are the only power hungry circuits in the whole room. All the lighting for example is L.E.D., so low power. As you said, it was minimal to perform those upgrades at the time of the tear-down and build. I probably spent an extra $100 total in parts for what would now cost 10-20 times that amount to retrofit.

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post #76 of 93 Old 08-07-2019, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I will not be short on power in this room, that is for sure. The panel boxes are just 20 feet from my room with absolutely no restrictions for running more wire!
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post #77 of 93 Old 08-07-2019, 08:53 AM
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I will not be short on power in this room, that is for sure. The panel boxes are just 20 feet from my room with absolutely no restrictions for running more wire!
Amen to that, brother!

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post #78 of 93 Old 08-07-2019, 04:39 PM
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Love your enthusiasm on the project! I'm closing on a house in week or two, and it has basement media room. I'm already planning how/what I do there, but it's nothing compared to your items. I already have most items in my current place, probably will buy X6500h and 4x in-ceiling speakers. Still considering in-walls too, but probably will start with my current normal speakers and upgrade later.
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post #79 of 93 Old 08-12-2019, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Had a couple of hours yesterday to tackle some more demo. Got the framing removed from around the beam and then tackled the sheetrock on the large bulkhead at the front of the room. As you can see, lots of ductwork up there above where the screen/false wall/fronts/subs will go so soundproofing is going to be a challenge to say the least. Moving the duct work is not an option at this point - cost prohibitive.

Exposed beam (still have to relocate the lally to the right):



Both studs walls seen in the 3 pics below are the next to go. That'll open up the footprint of the room a bit.







Shot from underneath the bulkhead looking towards the furnace:

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post #80 of 93 Old 08-13-2019, 04:26 AM
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Not sure how much work you want in reframing but it seems to me, you could shrink the soffit's room depth some, and use the vertical space to host the air condition line.

Is that strapping thin? You might remove it and put up some plywood and then use Green Glue, with two layers of 5/8" drywall on that ceiling there. You'd likely end up with a
something approaching what's already there in height, but it would be more substantial.

There are almost always inches to be had, but it comes down to how much time, energy, and money you want to invest in those inches to be had?
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post #81 of 93 Old 08-13-2019, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Not sure how much work you want in reframing but it seems to me, you could shrink the soffit's room depth some, and use the vertical space to host the air condition line.

Is that strapping thin? You might remove it and put up some plywood and then use Green Glue, with two layers of 5/8" drywall on that ceiling there. You'd likely end up with a
something approaching what's already there in height, but it would be more substantial.

There are almost always inches to be had, but it comes down to how much time, energy, and money you want to invest in those inches to be had?
By strapping I am assuming you are referring to the 1x3 wood slats that the DW was attached to? It's 3/4" thick. That certainly is an option to go with plywood or even OSB. So what your saying is that I can put the clips and channel right on the plywood before applying DW-GG-DW?

Yeah, it looks like they abandoned the old AC line inside the existing bulkhead framing and then they ran the new line outside of the bulkhead. I guess the reason they did that is because there was a drop ceiling there before and they didn't have to worry about it. I plan to talk with the HVAC contractor to see how difficult it would be to disconnect at the unit and route it back up through there so I can leave the framing alone on the front of the bulkhead.

My carpenter comes in tomorrow to frame out the laundry room and get it ready for electric and plumbing. I did decide to relocate the HW heater over next to the furnace so that is going to completely free up the back corner for an equipment rack (next to sump pump). Plumber is due in end of month to hook up machines and move HW heater. I decided to go with a 32" wide door for entrance to laundry room for more flexibility moving objects through into unfinished storage area.
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post #82 of 93 Old 08-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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Don't do the plywood if using clips. I got the impression you weren't going to use clips.

Do you need to even disconnect the HVAC line? It's all about that angle at the top of the picture, and how flexible the line is, and then it's far cheaper/simpler to do a new
soffit then discharge and recharge the line.
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post #83 of 93 Old 08-14-2019, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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More progress last night. Felt great to finally do away with the two stud walls at the front of the room and really open her up.

Looking from back left towards front



Looking from back right towards front



Looking front center to back



Looking across the room (right front to left front). This is where I am planning to erect the false/screen wall (the 2 lallys will be hidden behind it):



Getting close to having to define the perimeter of the front of the room. I have some flexibility on how deep I can go between the false wall and the front wall. I am zeroing in on something around 36” so that I can fit my fronts/subs back there comfortably.

Will a 36” depth there give me any sounds issues? What is recommended for treatments on the 3 walls behind the false wall? Foam baffles, etc.? Is that stuff expensive and where does one get it?

Am I correct in saying that the recommended distance from speaker to the back of the AT screen is around 10”?
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Let's start with these two items:

You can do 10" off of the backside of a woven AT screen, but 6" is enough to prevent timbre shifting.

What subs are we talking about here? 36" of AT space depth is potentially more then you might want to give up. Can the subs be rotated to not have drivers blowing on the
AT screen, while also not eating up room depth?
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post #85 of 93 Old 08-14-2019, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Let's start with these two items:

You can do 10" off of the backside of a woven AT screen, but 6" is enough to prevent timbre shifting.
Even better!

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What subs are we talking about here? 36" of AT space depth is potentially more then you might want to give up. Can the subs be rotated to not have drivers blowing on the
AT screen, while also not eating up room depth?
I am a huge fan of PSA subs (in my last room I had dual PSA XV15's). Very early on I was thinking about going with dual PB-2000's for this room but then I started to question myself about why I was going a different route than PSA. I can get one PSA V1811 for roughly what I'd pay for two PSA PB-2000's. So, I was thinking go with one V1811 and then if it's not enough, add a 2nd further down the line.

And yes, the subs can definitely be turned sideways. The V1811 is 20x22x24 so it's fairly compact considering it has an 18" driver.

I should also add that I have traded a few emails with Tom V. about speakers for the front. As of right now, the front runners for front L-C-R are PSA MTM-210's (the MTM-210T towers would be overkill for my room and possibly too tall). Of course, all of that could very well change. It's early.

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post #86 of 93 Old 08-14-2019, 11:58 AM
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Between the false wall and the front wall. I am zeroing in on something around 36” so that I can fit my fronts/subs back there comfortably.

Will a 36” depth there give me any sounds issues? What is recommended for treatments on the 3 walls behind the false wall? Foam baffles, etc.? Is that stuff expensive and where does one get it?

Am I correct in saying that the recommended distance from speaker to the back of the AT screen is around 10”?[/QUOTE]


Are you going to do a baffle wall on the front wall behind the speakers? As for the other three walls for treatments, you may have to play with things unless you pay to have a study done. Tedd could probably point you what you could do. I may do some columns to help with deflection and also hide surround speakers and some framed panels covered in fabric with 2" to 3" of insulation in them. I want to see how my room will sound with no treatments first then go from there. Hopefully I will get some free time to work on it some day.

I was planing on going with 30" behind AT screen because my speakers are 20" deep. This way they are off the back wall some and away from the screen at least 6"

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post #87 of 93 Old 08-14-2019, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you going to do a baffle wall on the front wall behind the speakers? As for the other three walls for treatments, you may have to play with things unless you pay to have a study done. Tedd could probably point you what you could do. I may do some columns to help with deflection and also hide surround speakers and some framed panels covered in fabric with 2" to 3" of insulation in them. I want to see how my room will sound with no treatments first then go from there. Hopefully I will get some free time to work on it some day.

I was planning on going with 30" behind AT screen because my speakers are 20" deep. This way they are off the back wall some and away from the screen at least 6"
If people recommend baffles on the front wall, that's what I'll do. I just have no idea since I've never been down this false wall / AT screen rabbit hole before!

I am thinking I'd like to go with 6 columns in the room. 2 on each side of the room (the rear set housing the surrounds) and 2 in the back (housing the rear surrounds). If I do not go with columns, I'll have to find a good in-wall match for the MTM-210's that I have up front.
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post #88 of 93 Old 08-14-2019, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnapolisSony View Post
If people recommend baffles on the front wall, that's what I'll do. I just have no idea since I've never been down this false wall / AT screen rabbit hole before!

I am thinking I'd like to go with 6 columns in the room. 2 on each side of the room (the rear set housing the surrounds) and 2 in the back (housing the rear surrounds). If I do not go with columns, I'll have to find a good in-wall match for the MTM-210's that I have up front.
Columns is a good way to incorporate to help with deflection and house surround speakers. My room is a little over 25' so I was thinking of doing 3 on each side and two at the back.

I don't know a lit about baffle walls either other then what I have seen on the Forum. I think it depends on what type of speakers you have. My towers have 15" subs built in to them so I may not do a baffle wall when or if I go with an AT screen. For now I will build for it and just use my normal 120" 16:9 screen.

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post #89 of 93 Old 08-15-2019, 07:33 AM
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I'm just gonna chime in that baffle walls are an art and science unto themselves. I started venturing down that rabbit hole a few years ago, and came to the conclusion it's much easier to make your sound worse than to improve it. However, much of that has to do with the room shape and layout. And, I'll stop here because I feel myself being pulled by gravity toward the rabbit hole again.... Must resist.....
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post #90 of 93 Old 08-18-2019, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Lots going on. This week my carpenter came in and framed out the laundry room. This means that the doorway location between it and my theater room is pretty much set in stone. My electrician came in the following day to rough-in electric for washing machine, dryer and HW heater (I am relocating it to open up a space for my rack). He also got both ceiling lights on the same circuit and installed a couple of extra outlets on the wall that backs up to the theater room.

My plumber comes in a week from tomorrow to relocate the HW heater, install water lines for washing machine, install utility sink, install the drain pump and install a condensate pump. I am having him replace all of the copper piping in the vicinity of the theater and laundry room with CPVC. When we inspected the house before we bought it, we found pinhole leaks in some of the copper piping in the vicinity of the water heater and most of it looks to have been installed at the same time. I want it all gone for peace of mind.

For those that are wondering how much it costs to remove a 3" lally column and install a new one, it is going to run me $750. I am moving the lally column over 30" so they will bury it inside the wall between the theater room and new laundry room. I had budgeted a little over $1K so it's a win in my book.
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