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post #1 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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New Construction

SO this may not be a typical post or it may be in the wrong area as well. I have done some searching on this site and through Google but I wanted to try and simplify this as much as I can.

I am wanting to better understand how to help with dampening sound. I am aware of green glue and channels and other items that I know help with complete or almost complete sound dampening.

We are building a new house and I am obviously going to have an opportunity. I am not looking to completely eliminate sound. I am looking to just help eliminate it or lessen it. So why am I asking about this at AVSForum? Well, because people hear understand sound better then builders and contractors.

We are going to have a finished basement under our main floor that will be mostly 3/4 hardwood. I mostly want to eliminate the walking noise from above as the kids will be in the basement and I want to help dampen that as much as I can. I will eventually have a projector and things in the basement but I will not be worried about isolating it completely. I know the best method would be combining all the methods such as dampening, channels and mass. I think I got those correct. That is out of my budget at this time.

What I was thinking:

Add a layer underlayment between the hardwood and subfloor. Add insulation under the floor as well as around the bedrooms and around the bathrooms. Can I put green glue directly under the hardwood and the subfloor?

I am looking to see what I was thinking is effective in any way? I am also looking for advice in an easy to understand way as well

Thanks in advance and hopefully this is not completely out of the picture for this forum
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post #2 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 09:15 AM
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There are much more knowledgeable people here than I, but here is my two cents. Normally you install 30# roofing felt under 3/4" hardwood flooring, I would replace that with a sound deadening vaper barrier mat (there are some made for laminate floors). Insulate the basement ceiling with rockwool insulation and use 5/8" Type X drywall on the ceiling of the basement. It's not going to be perfect, especially with hard soled shoes, hi heels, etc, but it is a start.

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post #3 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 09:30 AM
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Depends on the size of the strip, 6"or wider should be glued and nailed. Not much you can do unless you switch to laminate. I agree heels will be noticed more than anything. Heavy footed walkers like my son as well.

I'd have them spray foam the ceiling then green glue drywall etc. and call it a day. That's just me
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 10:05 AM
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You could just build rooms with their own floating ceiling joists (separate from your floor joists) to completely decouple the upstairs from the basement.. If planned properly it cost cost less than clips, hats and roxul and provide better results.


Last edited by PreciseD; 07-23-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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post #5 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreciseD View Post
You could just build rooms with their own floating ceiling joists (separate from your floor joists) to completely decouple the upstairs from the basement.. If planned properly it cost cost less than clips, hats and roxul and provide better results.

my only concern with this is I will lose overall ceiling height in the basement
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post
my only concern with this is I will lose overall ceiling height in the basement
You would loose about 2" if done like shown.. Personally every basement on a new build should have a 10' ceiling height.. It doesn't cost that much more to add 2'-0" to the overall height.
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 10:50 AM
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Good example of a decoupled ceiling that only drops it about 2"
tebling likes this.
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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ok now that I know I will only lose 2" I feel better. I actually have 10' foundation so it would not be that bad

thanks.
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 11:07 AM
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 12:11 PM
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totally decoupled joists is a great isolation technique. Not sure it is cheaper than A237 clips and channel, Depends on the span and what you have to pay per joist. Be sure to discuss with your builder so wiring, plumbing and duct work aren't placed in spaces between or spanning the joists. I'd say without seeing your plan there is a 90% chance wires will be in the way without intervention early on in the project. IF you want to do this get it in writing that they will leave the joist spaces in the potential theater area open. One alternative tried and proven technique for mitigating the pitter patter of little feet above a theater is attaching damped mass to the bottom of the subfloor as show in this diagram from Soundproofingcompany.com.



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post #11 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 12:35 PM
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Ceiling span chart with no attic is

2x6 #2 = 14'-0"
2x8 #2 = 18'-0

2x6 is around $.75 a LFT
2x8 is around $1.05 a LFT

Channel and clips is about $1.25 LFT (if on 32" spacing for clips and using the cheaper A237 clips) Plus the addition of the drywall between joists and the labor that would bring.

I did a pretty extensive study on the cost of floating ceiling joists vs clips plus under floor drywall and it was a lot more $$$ to do the clips/drywall than it was worth as it will not have a better STC than a fully decoupled floor.


Jeff does have a good point that HVAC would have to be carefully looked into, but the easy way to allow space for ducting is move the floating ceiling joist 2" away from the floor joist allowing ample room between them.
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-23-2019, 02:37 PM
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This is the solution I'm going with (from Soundproofing Company) for my current new construction build. It's a lot easier to add mass from above with new construction.
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the solution I'm going with (from Soundproofing Company) for my current new construction build. It's a lot easier to add mass from above with new construction.
Nothing showed up on my computer. Would like to see what this option is

[QUOTE=BIGmouthinDC;58331730]totally decoupled joists is a great isolation technique. Not sure it is cheaper than A237 clips and channel, Depends on the span and what you have to pay per joist. Be sure to discuss with your builder so wiring, plumbing and duct work aren't placed in spaces between or spanning the joists. I'd say without seeing your plan there is a 90% chance wires will be in the way without intervention early on in the project. IF you want to do this get it in writing that they will leave the joist spaces in the potential theater area open. One alternative tried and proven technique for mitigating the pitter patter of little feet above a theater is attaching damped mass to the bottom of the subfloor as show in this diagram from Soundproofingcompany.com.

Due to some of those changes and with wiring it may be really hard to get that done with the stage of the game we are at. I do like the idea of adding mass to the subfloor. My basement is about 1600 sq/ft and I want to keep this cost affective.


Can I add green glue to the hardwood directly when installing or is that not worth the effort or money?
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 05:23 AM
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Maybe you can put GG directly on hardwood strips but it sounds like a messy endeavor. When I switched out my family room carpet for hardwood, I put down 1/2 inch sheets of MDF with Green Glue, then the hardwood. I think the added layer with GG helped. The family room is directly over my theater space.
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcj7 View Post
Nothing showed up on my computer. Would like to see what this option is

I'm sorry, not sure what happened. I can see the image.

It's the "best" solution for soundproofing floors from Soundproofing Company. https://www.soundproofingcompany.com...ing-floors-2-2

Top to bottom it's 2 layers of 3/4 subfloor with Green Glue then a rubber mat then another layer of 3/4 subfloor.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 05:46 AM
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks

Can I use the Serena underlay directly under hardwood if I don't want to add the additional layers of plywood and green glue?
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post #18 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 07:13 AM
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That would be their "Level 1" solution.

https://www.soundproofingcompany.com...aminate-floors
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 11:46 AM
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be aware there is a big difference between floating interlocking wood look laminate on rubber underlayment and nail down solid hardwood flooring. I'd be careful just assuming it will work, check with the hardwood manufacturer.
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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be aware there is a big difference between floating interlocking wood look laminate on rubber underlayment and nail down solid hardwood flooring. I'd be careful just assuming it will work, check with the hardwood manufacturer.
I will check on that but not sure what I will get as I found a good source of Amish hardwood at a good price since they are somewhat local to me. Not sure if they will know but I will ask
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-24-2019, 01:03 PM
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the biggest issue is nail down flooring is the nails will go right through the rubber pad and create a strong connection between the hardwood and the subfloor which will transfer vibration. Essentially negating a lot of the benefit of the rubber.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-25-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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the biggest issue is nail down flooring is the nails will go right through the rubber pad and create a strong connection between the hardwood and the subfloor which will transfer vibration. Essentially negating a lot of the benefit of the rubber.
makes sense. I am not looking for complete sound isolation. Just looking mostly fro transfer of foot traffic and as much voice noise from talking that I can
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-25-2019, 09:56 AM
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Amish hardwood at a good price since they are somewhat local to me
You out in Lancaster PA?
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post #24 of 25 Old 07-25-2019, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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You out in Lancaster PA?
I'm actually in northern Kentucky just south of Cincinnati. I found someone just around Columbus that will deliver to me
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-25-2019, 10:12 AM
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Gotcha! Just know there is a huge Amish settlement in Lancaster..
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