weird space, but it's what I've got to work with. Need advice. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Question weird space, but it's what I've got to work with. Need advice.

OK. I know it's an odd shape and there's stuff in the way. But it's the space that I have to work with. It's in the basement. The left and top walls (on the diagram) are concrete foundation walls behind the frame and drywall. The ceiling is insulated, but I could change insulation, etc., to achieve soundproofing. The door is the "5ft 0in" on the right hand side (couldn't figure out how to get doors to work in Roomle).

Current plan is to have a 120" wide screen on the wall (marked in red).

15 feet is where the box ("beamer" aka projector) is located -- that's viewing distance for 120" wide per the calculator.

Goal is to have 2 rows of seating, with risers.

Have access to the walls -- none of this is built yet (framed but not even drywalled).

Drop ceiling for wiring and upgrading ease, with acoustical ceiling tiles. Interested in thoughts on soundproofing the ceiling.

Double drywall with green glue for soundproofing (walls).

In-wall speakers with AT screen (I like the look, am not here to debate the merits/flaws of in-wall speakers). Am thinking in-ceiling surrounds at present.

Doing a "room in a room" has little appeal, as it would shrink the HT to the point that it would end up being smaller than our living room. However, adding a single wall on the right of the room (making the screen the bottom of a rectangle), may be an option.

I don't expect it to have perfect soundproofing OR ideal sound quality, but would like to be able to watch movies with good surround sound on a big screen.

Requesting help / encouragement / creative and/or technological solutions to get this space to work.
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post #2 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 01:19 PM
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Excuse the crap markup (I'm on my phone)..

But you could have a projector room/storage in the back.. to the left could be your A/V rack and you would have a better functioning room for acoustics..

I'm not sure you could get two rows of seating in that space..

I'm bet someone will chime in with a better layout and something that doesn't look like a 3 year old drew it..
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post #3 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 02:27 PM
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where is the door? and what is in the framed room in the upper right?
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post #4 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anand Patel View Post
OK. I know it's an odd shape and there's stuff in the way. But it's the space that I have to work with. It's in the basement. The left and top walls (on the diagram) are concrete foundation walls behind the frame and drywall. The ceiling is insulated, but I could change insulation, etc., to achieve soundproofing. The door is the "5ft 0in" on the right hand side (couldn't figure out how to get doors to work in Roomle).

Current plan is to have a 120" wide screen on the wall (marked in red).

15 feet is where the box ("beamer" aka projector) is located -- that's viewing distance for 120" wide per the calculator.

Goal is to have 2 rows of seating, with risers.

Have access to the walls -- none of this is built yet (framed but not even drywalled).

Drop ceiling for wiring and upgrading ease, with acoustical ceiling tiles. Interested in thoughts on soundproofing the ceiling.

Double drywall with green glue for soundproofing (walls).

In-wall speakers with AT screen (I like the look, am not here to debate the merits/flaws of in-wall speakers). Am thinking in-ceiling surrounds at present.

Doing a "room in a room" has little appeal, as it would shrink the HT to the point that it would end up being smaller than our living room. However, adding a single wall on the right of the room (making the screen the bottom of a rectangle), may be an option.

I don't expect it to have perfect soundproofing OR ideal sound quality, but would like to be able to watch movies with good surround sound on a big screen.

Requesting help / encouragement / creative and/or technological solutions to get this space to work.

Soundproofing involves decoupling, mass, damping, and absorption, arguably in descending order. Skipping one degrades the whole soundproofing system. For example, massive concrete walls that are coupled to the rest of the structure will transmit a lot of sound.


Drop ceiling is terrible for soundproofing--not decoupled, little mass, poor damping, though perhaps good absorption if you put some insulation in the cavities.


Double drywall = mass, which is good, but much better if decoupled (e.g. with clip and channel or dual-stud or staggered-stud construction). Green Glue = damping, but again, better decoupled.


I think you may have the misconception that "room within a room" involves dual stud construction. That's very rare, actually. Most room within a room involves clip and channel to decouple, and that doesn't cost much room volume. Staggered stud is another option that doesn't need to add much wall thickness (e.g. + 1 inch), decouples similar to clip and channel (if I recall correctly, less good at higher frequencies, better at lower frequencies).



In-wall speakers behind an AT screen? You'll pay a premium versus regular speakers, but that's fine if you want the screen flush or close to the wall. But then you say you like the look, so maybe you mean in-wall speakers next to, below, or above the screen? No room next to screen, so in that case it must be below or above, that's not ideal, though doable.

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post #5 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
where is the door? and what is in the framed room in the upper right?
Door is the "5ft 0in" interval in the wall on the right of the diagram -- couldn't get Roomle to draw the door right.

The framed room in the upper right is HVAC that pre-dates the decision to finish the basement. Non movable unfortunately.
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post #6 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niccolo View Post
Soundproofing involves decoupling, mass, damping, and absorption, arguably in descending order. Skipping one degrades the whole soundproofing system. For example, massive concrete walls that are coupled to the rest of the structure will transmit a lot of sound.


Drop ceiling is terrible for soundproofing--not decoupled, little mass, poor damping, though perhaps good absorption if you put some insulation in the cavities.


Double drywall = mass, which is good, but much better if decoupled (e.g. with clip and channel or dual-stud or staggered-stud construction). Green Glue = damping, but again, better decoupled.


I think you may have the misconception that "room within a room" involves dual stud construction. That's very rare, actually. Most room within a room involves clip and channel to decouple, and that doesn't cost much room volume. Staggered stud is another option that doesn't need to add much wall thickness (e.g. + 1 inch), decouples similar to clip and channel (if I recall correctly, less good at higher frequencies, better at lower frequencies).



In-wall speakers behind an AT screen? You'll pay a premium versus regular speakers, but that's fine if you want the screen flush or close to the wall. But then you say you like the look, so maybe you mean in-wall speakers next to, below, or above the screen? No room next to screen, so in that case it must be below or above, that's not ideal, though doable.
The double drywall is decoupled -- channel and clips. Sorry for the confusion I've created by being imprecise.

So the concrete walls aren't coupled to the theater room. But putting in a drywall ceiling will make speaker placements permanent, and restrict the ability to make modifications in the future. There should be a way to soundproof a drop ceiling -- plan is to put insulation above it for starters, but am wondering what other solutions there are.

Thanks!
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post #7 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anand Patel View Post
The double drywall is decoupled -- channel and clips. Sorry for the confusion I've created by being imprecise.

So the concrete walls aren't coupled to the theater room. But putting in a drywall ceiling will make speaker placements permanent, and restrict the ability to make modifications in the future. There should be a way to soundproof a drop ceiling -- plan is to put insulation above it for starters, but am wondering what other solutions there are.

Thanks!

If you're already doing all that on the walls, you'll definitely want to think about the floor and the ceiling (at which point we're talking room within a room). If you're only treating the walls, you're going to have huge flanking issues, i.e. sound leaking out and/or in via the untreated areas. Especially lower frequency sound travels very efficiently through coupled framing.



Floor--decoupling and mass, e.g. a plywood/OSB subfloor floated over rubber. Of course, this will cost some head room.


Ceiling--interesting to think about how a drop ceiling might be soundproofed. One option is to properly soundproof the ceiling above the drop ceiling. The other option is to try to add mass and decouple the drop ceiling as much as it feasible, but there's a reason you don't see many drop ceilings discussed here.

Benq W1070 projector w/ Chief RSM mount with custom interface bracket
119" Da-Lite Cinema Contour with High-Contrast (gray) Da-Mat screen
Denon X2000 receiver fed by Panasonic DMP-BDT210 Bluray player
Focal Chorus 700-series towers and center, JMLab Tantal 500-series bookshelf rears
Rythmik FV15HP sub
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post #8 of 12 Old 07-31-2019, 04:49 PM
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No second row but it could be very substantial.

Small entry lobby and maybe a small snack bar.
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-01-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anand Patel View Post
The framed room in the upper right is HVAC that pre-dates the decision to finish the basement. Non movable unfortunately.

Actually mechanical rooms can be shrunk and items moved. It is just a matter of writing a check. IMHO if you want any hope of a two row theater you are going to need to move some walls or use classic bolt down theater seats for the second row.
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-02-2019, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Question -- it's a concrete foundation floor. Do I really need to soundproof it?
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post #11 of 12 Old 08-04-2019, 02:56 AM
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Depends on how aggressive your goals are. A concrete floor is way down on the list of items to address. Some guys here want to check off all the boxes and get an A+on the exam others are really happy with a A-. Concrete is an excellent conductor of vibration. Keeping the energy in the room from being transferred to the concrete floor is a consideration in high performance theater design. Likewise furnace fan vibration, sump pumps and other outside noises can be audible in a theater space.

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post #12 of 12 Old 08-04-2019, 04:59 AM
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I would zero in on the getting the floor plan right, with some reflective side walls up front and then decide what the budget is, and how it is best used.
At that point, you also can cost things out with certainty.

Then you can figure out the costs of the floor, if you choose to do it. If you are somewhere that gets cold, there also could be a secondary advantage
to the floor, as in creature comfort. Seasonal changes in some areas can create a situation where the furnace isn't running enough. Cold can wick through a
basement floor, or uninsulated wall, and it can hit all of a sudden where you are chilled right through.

That furnace room wall might have some potential to rebuild it, and widen the space slightly. The front has potential to be a shallow baffle wall with the alcove
hosting a sub. Much of what you could do, is really about using what you have, or being flexible enough to sell off gear, and buy gear suitable for what you want
to accomplish.
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