Ceiling at two different heights. What are the considerations? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Ceiling at two different heights. What are the considerations?

I'm lucky enough to be converting and extending an existing room to create what will be a fairly generous space for a home theater. Even after a box-in-box construction, the final width of the room will be 16' (4.9m) and the length up to 28.5' (8.6m). A little more width would be nicer but I can't complain. The interesting dimension however is the height. Here I can take advantage of up to 14' (4.3m)! That's because I will extend into a barn where there's plenty of height available. Well, actually, that's true, but only for the extension part, which accounts for some 60% of the new room; the rear 60%. The front part of the theater where the screen resides will be what remains of the existing room. Here the height is limited to 9'8" (3m). Still a good height of course.

I'm curious about the implications of what this stepped ceiling are. Are any other reasons to want to avoid this perhaps or do it differently? I ask because I can simplify the construction and save on materials if I simply stick to a uniform 9'8" height across the entire room . Not to mention the fact reducing the volume may require less and/or less powerful speakers. Shame though to not make use of the height. Going the other way, I could feasibly construct the room with a uniform 14' ceiling height, although that requires getting round a pair of struts that support the barn roof, more materials, more volume, etc.

Your thoughts appreciated.
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post #2 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 09:25 AM
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Is there a reason you picked the tall section for the rear? if could be the front. How many seats/rows are you planning on fitting in this space? Where is the door?
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post #3 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Is there a reason you picked the tall section for the rear? if could be the front. How many seats/rows are you planning on fitting in this space? Where is the door?

^^^What he asked?^^^^


The technically correct design would be reversed. You have lots of room length, and your diagram purports to a Theater with 2 Rows of seating.


Seating that starts at the Room's Ceiling rise, and a PJ Placement at 18' would be the best, allowing for a epic-sized Image presentation on the higher wall in any Format chosen.


Acoustically it would also be best. And as you stated, the least expensive route would be the route that does not require extensive Framing Mods.


It would also help to have even a "Bird's Eye" sketch showing the general Floor Plan, complete with all present / planned openings.

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post #4 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I've attached some drawings I've been working on; a before and after plan view (new walls in blue) and a couple of 3D "artist impressions". Don't pay too much attention to the decor in the 3d-renderings, that's all still yet to be decided! I'm mostly concerned with getting this room size/shape/layout right to begin with. As you can see I plan to convert the room next door to the theater room but that's not so relevant, other than it can be subject to the noise from the theater.
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post #5 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 12:03 PM
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you might be able to pull off this look. Not one of my projects but I did it once.

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post #6 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 12:13 PM
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like this
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post #7 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Indeed what you propose would make the height difference less exaggerated. Interesting idea, thanks.

My thinking with orientating the seating and screen as I have is based mostly on position of the entrance, which has to be at lower-height end really. I thought it would be nicer to have a spacious landing/circulation area to walk into rather than be faced immediately with the back of a row of raised seating. Also the third row has no compromises in terms of headroom this way round. Another thing is the greater height overhead I understand makes Atmos/Auro3D/DTS-X height channels harder to locate (in terms of pinpointing their location while listening) giving a more immersive experience - like in a commercial theater where the ceilings are usually way above your head.
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post #8 of 31 Old 09-14-2019, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Seating that starts at the Room's Ceiling rise, and a PJ Placement at 18' would be the best, allowing for a epic-sized Image presentation on the higher wall in any Format chosen.

Acoustically it would also be best.
Intrigued about the epic-sized image presentation... are you thinking IMAX? In my head I have a 2.39:1 in mind. It’ll be just a room for movies, no TV, gaming etc.

I also wondered about how the shape would impact the acoustics but I wasn’t sure. Maybe you could elaborate on what the impact would be.
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post #9 of 31 Old 09-15-2019, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I managed to construct a more accurate rendering of the ceiling with the large "step" as it would be should of all the available height space be used up.


I took the opportunity to add some extra height to the riser to make it steeper since I may as well make the most of the head room. It's 3 steps per row now, with the third row of seating at 3 3/4 feet (1.14m). So even those seated on that row enjoy a good 10ft of head room. One of the renderings is from a standing view from behind the last row of seats and the (2.39:1) screen is still perfectly visible.



The riser also gives me plenty of space under it to hide cables and maybe AC ducts (separate post for HVAC to come no doubt...).



What I don't like is the unpredictable effect on the acoustics. At least, I don't know what impact is, especially for the first row where it plunges upwards right over head. Perhaps it makes overhead speaker placement awkward too. On the other hand I could fussing over nothing...


Thanks for the feedback far gents and keen to hear any other thoughts you might have on the design.
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post #10 of 31 Old 09-15-2019, 01:34 PM
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the projector as depicted may be too high, depends on brand and model
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post #11 of 31 Old 09-15-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
the projector as depicted may be too high, depends on brand and model
Noted. It’s place at an arbitrary height right now and I can certainly lower it some. Don’t have a specific model in mind yet.

In any case I plan to box it in and have it supported (at the appropriate height) by a pedestal that can double up as a run for cables and maybe even HVAC ducting if I want to really look after the projector well. It can also act as a rear wall acoustic diffuser.
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post #12 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 07:03 AM
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While the 3D renderings look really nice, the room's orientation seems to preclude the need to place the projector toward or at the rear of the room. That's about a 26' throw.

And should you want a truly large screen, the impact of having such a long throw will rule out several popular PJ choices, and/or require the use of a Long Throw Lens if sufficient lumen output is to be delivered to warrant the hope of dynamic imagery...including HDR content.

One overriding consideration is if the choice of Screen gravitates toward an Acoustic Transparent one. Screen size matters here....as does Gain, Weave or Perforation resolution, and cost. Then there is the type of Speakers being considered, and how well they will meld with the AT ideal / necessary build-out. Omitting a AT application while going the opposite direction would allow for a very large conventional Screen that has just enough gain to make several aspects of the Projection come together, while also allowing for exterior placement of the Right / Left / Center Channels.

Room design also is dependent upon more that just the seating & screen orientation. Looks matter of course, but unless the budget is blessed with a "wild abandon" attitude, some prudent and practical thinking my go into the design & decision making process.

Mr.B has one thing absolutely right....the Ceiling must be done so as to create a gradual step-effect much akin to his simple diagram. Having a large "cavity" at the rear will create a acoustic "well" that will have numerous side effects on the ability to calibrate the sound. The ratio of cubic volume to imparted sound pressure / frequencies will be way out of proportion otherwise. In many ways, reversing the room layout will make those problems be greatly reduced, if indeed not disappear. That same Ceiling Design would also be a requirement should the Room's floor Plan be reversed.

To finish, a three row Theater that stretches out to 28' demands a epic sized Screen, and that would certainly be easier to accommodate with the higher Ceiling. Stadium Seating is a requirement for 15+ row Commercial Theaters....it certainly does not have to be the case...design or otherwise...for a well thought out Home Theater design. In most respects, the current trend in the design is still certainly doable, and frankly does look very impressive. I personally love the flexibility of having the expandable space, and a willingness to consider a change in Ceiling design....

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post #13 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 09:42 AM
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Will you be filling up the 12 seats most of the time?

I'd be very leery of a bunch of seats, that seldom get filled (with some being audio compromised), skewing where the dollars might be better planted.

I would be very tempted to think about the shorter throw distance of two rows of four compact width seats, and simply bring in 4 Ikea Poangs to fill in the row ends.
Some of the excessive length would be given over to an AT space with AT screen, and more room behind the back row of seats. (A stepped ceiling as proposed, would
be a design given.)
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post #14 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Will you be filling up the 12 seats most of the time?

I'd be very leery of a bunch of seats, that seldom get filled (with some being audio compromised), skewing where the dollars might be better planted.

I would be very tempted to think about the shorter throw distance of two rows of four compact width seats, and simply bring in 4 Ikea Poangs to fill in the row ends.
Some of the excessive length would be given over to an AT space with AT screen, and more room behind the back row of seats. (A stepped ceiling as proposed, would
be a design given.)

You can see that in the plan view with furnishings (attached) that I do have about 2.5' of space for speakers behind a screen.At least that's one option and I could go more generous. I guess the further the screen comes forward the less of a problem this step this step in the ceiling is. In any case, I believe there's some flexibility there to make a decision rather late on in the process when the seating layout is known. I can bring the screen as far forward as I like or have it right against the wall with speakers either side and below/above.



The only thing I don't like about the stepped ceiling as proposed - though I know that it makes sense in many ways - is giving up the opportunity to take full advantage of the height. 14 feet, according to Acoustic Fields, is ideal...


"You must have much more height. Minimum 11 feet, ideal 14. Now I know that’s not realistic but I’m not about being realistic. I’m about sound quality. So you’ve got to get these surface areas far away from your head. Not the floor, because you’ve got to sit on it but the ceiling is really critical. And like we say here there is no substitute for distance."
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post #15 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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While the 3D renderings look really nice, the room's orientation seems to preclude the need to place the projector toward or at the rear of the room. That's about a 26' throw.

And should you want a truly large screen, the impact of having such a long throw will rule out several popular PJ choices, and/or require the use of a Long Throw Lens if sufficient lumen output is to be delivered to warrant the hope of dynamic imagery...including HDR content.
Can you elaborate on what you have in mind when you say a “truly large screen”? I’ve depicted a 150” 2.39:1 screen. The max I could do at that aspect ratio looks to be a 200” screen, but that would almost span the entire width. Even then there would be plenty of height at the low end.

A 16:9 screen could be up to 210” and though it would still fit easily height wise I’m not sure how it would look from the back row. Nevertheless it fits, though I can imagine the large wall would be much more appropriate/optimal.

Quote:
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Room design also is dependent upon more that just the seating & screen orientation. Looks matter of course, but unless the budget is blessed with a "wild abandon" attitude, some prudent and practical thinking my go into the design & decision making process.
It’s a tight budget I’m afraid. Well, that is to say, the more I spend on the room construction the less I have for everything else, but actually I don’t mind focusing on the room and leaving equipment and decor to another phase. My priorities are room dimensions, seating layout/orientation, and sound isolation. I feel like I need to get those aspects right as they cannot be easily changed/rectified later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Mr.B has one thing absolutely right....the Ceiling must be done so as to create a gradual step-effect much akin to his simple diagram. Having a large "cavity" at the rear will create a acoustic "well" that will have numerous side effects on the ability to calibrate the sound. The ratio of cubic volume to imparted sound pressure / frequencies will be way out of proportion otherwise. In many ways, reversing the room layout will make those problems be greatly reduced, if indeed not disappear. That same Ceiling Design would also be a requirement should the Room's floor Plan be reversed.
I can’t immediately see how the reverse seating plan makes it more acoustically predictable but I’ll take your word for it.

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To finish, a three row Theater that stretches out to 28' demands a epic sized Screen, and that would certainly be easier to accommodate with the higher Ceiling. Stadium Seating is a requirement for 15+ row Commercial Theaters....it certainly does not have to be the case...design or otherwise...for a well thought out Home Theater design. In most respects, the current trend in the design is still certainly doable, and frankly does look very impressive. I personally love the flexibility of having the expandable space, and a willingness to consider a change in Ceiling design....
Maybe I’ll try a version of the plan that depicts what you're angling at. I have my reasons for orienting the room the way I have but I’m certainly not wedded to it.
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post #16 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 02:24 PM
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you need to look at the throw distance calculators for commonly available upper tier residential projectors. As MM indicated the smallest image you can obtain at a throw distance of around 26 feet may be too big and dim. You will need to look at projectors that offer optional long throw lenses. $$$$ Or hang the projector from a down pole mid way back in your space.
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post #17 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 02:51 PM
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If you use AT building materials for the ceiling the you can keep your height above the false ceiling and have the acoustics you desire.

Can you go deeper into the barn or is 28 feet hitting the far side?

You could use some or all of the 9.8 foot height area (way more than I have) for a lobby and or equipment space and build the majority of the theater in the higher area. If you prefer symmetry you could set back into the 9.8 space by the width of a soffit that continues around the room, or build your proscenium across that wall above the divide to hide the change in height for a recessed screen area.
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Maybe I’ll try a version of the plan that depicts what you're angling at. I have my reasons for orienting the room the way I have but I’m certainly not wedded to it.
I can understand your reasoning for putting the screen on the short end. But the HT geek in me says put it on the BIG END! Haha I'm certain you'll end up with a great theater either way, but my gosh using that 14' height will give you the opportunity to throw up a massive screen with insane visual impact. You could save money using DIY Sound Group Titans for your mains and other of their speakers for surrounds and ATMOS. The room is just too amazing to use the "small" side and cut off the height advantage you have...

Roll Tide.
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post #19 of 31 Old 09-16-2019, 05:15 PM
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I see issue after issue in that layout, and the questions really start to pile up even faster, when you mention "Budget".

You simply don't need 14' of room height to have a surround experience that can take your breath away. Now if you are building, and have the chance to have a full room at 14',
I would say go for it, but I would never pair the word "budget" with it. That conversation should start with a realistic appraisal of seat count that will see regular use. That might
mean a small footprint is do-able, and that is all money not spent, which can be invested in other ways.

An example is amplification for three rows of seats, you have drawn in. How do you propose to implement that? The elimination of a seating row could shorten the room's foot print (and greatly
reduce it's cost). Now two pairs of speakers + four less amplification channels are also cost savings. The LCR mains also got a bit cheaper, assuming you care about the third row, having reference
levels.
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post #20 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 08:13 AM
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Tedd is speaking wisely. The whole concept is an attractive one....but as such comes with considerable and necessary expense.


Now if you can, and will put all your resources into the "Build" and defray further expenditures for a later date, absolutely you can achieve something spectacular...albeit over the passage of time.


Quote:
Can you elaborate on what you have in mind when you say a “truly large screen”? I’ve depicted a 150” 2.39:1 screen. The max I could do at that aspect ratio looks to be a 200” screen, but that would almost span the entire width. Even then there would be plenty of height at the low end.

A 16:9 screen could be up to 210” and though it would still fit easily height wise I’m not sure how it would look from the back row. Nevertheless it fits, though I can imagine the large wall would be much more appropriate/optimal.
"Truly Large" in a room the size/length your considering would be 180" and up. And that size is about right. But I'd advise that it be in a Constant Image Height format, and that the width of the Screen be the defining factor.

Such a Room is not a TV room, so a focus on 16:9 formatting would be a grievous error. For that matter....so would 2.39:1 Or IMAX. You need a flexible situation that would not entail excessive expenditure.

If the room is built so that the presentation Wall is at the tallest end, it would be easily done to have the Right /Center / Left Speakers exposed in front of a Painted Screen wall that would allow for ANY Format to be shown in whatever size was desired...and possible according to the Projector's attributes and placement. If the PJ has motorized Lens Shift (and Memory) then when the Theater is packed and the 3rd row full, the image could be sized and positioned to whatever works best.


Another benefit coming from a correctly painted Wall Screen would be the ability to provide enough gain at the Screen's surface to compensate for such large imagery. Acoustic Transparent Screens are NOT going to provide such, requiring those prohibitively expensive, upper echelon PJs just to give you an acceptably dynamic presentation.


I might get Boo'ed for suggesting this but a "budget choice" for such a large Screen would not be a JVC-anything, but rather the Epson 5050. It has sufficient Lumen output to put you on the positive side of things.
Examples:
JVC NX9 - 2200 Lumen - 18' Throw onto 1.3 gain surface = 25 foot lambert
Epson 5050 - 2600 Lumen - 18' Throw onto 1.3 gain surface = 35 foot lambert (a Big Difference!)



Then there is the sheer cost of any AT Screen in a size at or over 150" diagonal...let alone 180". You'll be checking your pulse after checking the prices of such.


So...taking you professed desire to maintain a tight budget,yet also acknowledging that a project such as yours deserves special consideration, below are images of a rather resplendent Theater (18 seats) that has a 192" x 80" (16' x 6'-8" 208" diag.) 2.39:1 Painted Drywall Screen being serviced by a JVC RS2 (w/just 600 lumen ! ) I painted that screen for a AVS'er back in 2009! So do not even imagine that such performance is not to be had today. And that being the case, the money saved on both the Projector and Screen options will certainly help out in the "Build process".


The following images were all taken with a digital Pocket Camera and have not been altered in any way except Cropping and resizing.






Wide Angle shot




My personal mechanic...............







Achilles and the Boys....








A lot of ambient light (...and two Side Spots...) present for 208" & 600 lumen.......






And below is one of my favorites.....showing how good the Blacks can be with controlled /Directed lighting present...and with the Stars out too!






Keep in mind that an 2.39:1 image of 208"diagonal w/C.H.I. would still allow for a 80" x 142" (163" diag.) 16:9 image, still somewhat larger than most, I'd say.



If you have the DIY work ethic....you could do something very close to the above for $1000s less and I do feel it would be the deserved focal point of your Theater to have such epic imagery


......................on a tight budget too!
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post #21 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 09:44 AM
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If the room is built so that the presentation Wall is at the tallest end, it would be easily done to have the Right /Center / Left Speakers exposed in front of a Painted Screen wall that would allow for ANY Format to be shown in whatever size was desired...and possible according to the Projector's attributes and placement. If the PJ has motorized Lens Shift (and Memory) then when the Theater is packed and the 3rd row full, the image could be sized and positioned to whatever works best.
I've seen your painted screens in many projects and they always look really good. What I've always wondered though is how you get around having to place the center channel? The left and right mains would be easy enough to deal with but doesn't that force you into either an on the floor or on the ceiling center? Either of those would be a total non-starter for me with a painted or even not acoustically transparent screen.

Perhaps the OP could consider a DIY spandex screen so to keep the acoustically transparent part intact. Silver Ticket Screens also has DIY material - though currently sold out a 2.35:1 AT screen is less than $1000 at those sizes. I know Seymour will also sell you their fabric for DIY.

Roll Tide.
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post #22 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by p3bham View Post
I've seen your painted screens in many projects and they always look really good. What I've always wondered though is how you get around having to place the center channel? The left and right mains would be easy enough to deal with but doesn't that force you into either an on the floor or on the ceiling center? Either of those would be a total non-starter for me with a painted or even not acoustically transparent screen.

Perhaps the OP could consider a DIY spandex screen so to keep the acoustically transparent part intact. Silver Ticket Screens also has DIY material - though currently sold out a 2.35:1 AT screen is less than $1000 at those sizes. I know Seymour will also sell you their fabric for DIY.
In the images above, the Center was positioned in the middle of the Stage Steps. It was taken down for the Theater Expose' because the owner just knew the AVS Elite in attendance would want to go right up and observe the Screen really close....and they did. Crazy as it seems, it took some convincing to keep some from stating the Screen had to be at least 3.5 gain to perform so well.


In virtually all my Theaters I design and build I use Audio Transducers, so the Drywall that makes up the Screen wall is also the Center Channel. I can put as many in a Parallel / Series as needed. Got some with as many as 8 Drivers.....all invisible. Imagine 9 channels done the same way...

Otherwise, I do some Spandex Screens, and advise a great many others. But for a screen the size of the one in question, there would need to be a lot of Lumen output to makeup for Spandex's low 0.7 gain. Oddly enough, the V6 Dream Screen material is only 0.85 gain, so it too would be less than what is really needed, especially for HDR content.

The last BIG Spandex screen I did in California (190" diagonal 2.39:1) used a Epson Pro L1100U Eshift (Phosphor Laser w/6K Lumen ) It doesn't have HDR capability....but with 6K Laser Lumen it really doesn't need much else to make even Spandex look fantastic.

I was actually going to suggest that model line to the OP because it does offer Long Throw Lenses...but in truth one such would not be needed since the Standard Lens it comes with will shoot a 190" 2.39:1 from 26' and still produce 27 fl off a 0.7 gain surface.


The thing is, Spandex does have a modicum of ALR "resistance" when hit with sufficient Lumen. The Carl's AT and other AT screens have absolutely none whatsoever.


There is / always will be a solution to be had if there is even a wee bit of flexibility going forward. Only a closed book limits effective choices.

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post #23 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Now if you can, and will put all your resources into the "Build" and defray further expenditures for a later date, absolutely you can achieve something spectacular...albeit over the passage of time.

Glad to hear this because I was about to explain (to those rightly pointing out the cost implications of a large room) that this approach is the one I have in mind, though was unsure if it was sensible or indeed feasible. The more I dig into HT design the more I realize how connected everything is and how one design decision can have a cascade effect on everything that follows. Therefore, on the one hand it surely pays to design and plan as completely as possible; create a master plan, save up, and then execute it. But on the other, a phased approach is appealing as I can find out over time what matters to me and upgrade accordingly. With the latter in mind, an obvious starting point to me would be the things that are much harder to change later on; namely, I suspect: room dimensions, HVAC and sound proofing. I'll quite happily install woefully inadequate equipment and a budget PJ; paint a wall white for a screen; reduce the number of seats (assuming I can easily add more at a later date); run cables in sight and otherwise forego on any kind of decorative aspects, if I could create a room with great potential. I’m used to a 47” HD TV, a soundbar that cost less than EUR 100, and a DVD player, all in a square room. Any significant departure from that is probably going to seem amazing to me and keep me happy until I outgrow my own naivety, by which time I may have the means to do HT 1.1!

But I digress. As I said at the start, a uniform 14' ceiling is not entirely out of the question and based on the feedback I think I can conclude that it's worth the investigation at the very least. At the risk of turning this into a builder's forum, there's a photo attached of what I need to work around along with my attempt at drawing the lines of the new shape (the photo is at an awful angle but it's the best I have right now). The orange star is on the wall that will have to come down in order to extend. Green hexagons mark the struts that perform a similar function to the ones in my way, but they can remain no problem. I'm wary of modifying a structure that's done a fine job of holding the place up for (literally) centuries... and for a home theater of all things!

In any case, short of a unanimous thumbs-up, the feedback and comments from all so far is exactly what I'd hoped for. I really appreciate it, thank you. And by all means keep it coming!

ps. A vaulted ceiling option (see photo) to bypass those struts... hmmmm...
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post #24 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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An example of the screen on the big wall as recommended by almost everyone. The heads of those on the front row measure barely 8 feet from the screen and that's with it tight against the wall too. Of course this is just one option for seating placement but I did so in order for both rows depicted to benefit from the full height. I added a generous entrance corridor with the door on the rear wall instead of the side - that's really just to use up some of that space in the rear. Third row not depicted but there would be space for it I believe. Note the projector position. It can now be placed closer to the screen yet outside the room and project through a window in that upper wall. I like that, but I'm not sure I prefer this layout overall. Definitely something to give serious thought to nevertheless.
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Last edited by The OH; 09-17-2019 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Add notw about PJ position
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post #25 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 03:06 PM
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An example of the screen on the big wall as recommended by almost everyone. The heads of those on the front row measure barely 8 feet from the screen and that's with it tight against the wall too. Of course this is just one option for seating placement but I did so in order for both rows depicted to benefit from the full height. I added a generous entrance corridor with the door on the rear wall instead of the side - that's really just to use up some of that space in the rear. Third row not depicted but there would be space for it I believe. Note the projector position. It can now be placed closer to the screen yet outside the room and project through a window in that upper wall. I like that, but I'm not sure I prefer this layout overall. Definitely something to give serious thought to nevertheless.
Am I seeing this right? Is the space above the 9.8 high section available for a recessed shelf or hushbox for the projector? That really is an important consideration - makes that orientation a no-brainer in my book. Gaining that much height will require much lower risers.

It also looks like you could incorporate the polebarn supports into a design without giving up the space, or simply put in an architectural beam between them at 13 feet or so to eliminate them. 10 minutes with an engineer should answer that.
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post #26 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 03:47 PM
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Oh how delightful!


MississippiMan lives in a reconverted 100 year old 55' x 60' Pole Barn too!


My "Poles" however are 8" x 8" solid Oak....25 of them set into Concrete Piers. They are so old and hard you cannot drive ANY type of Nail into them...even a 3/8" diameter Nail Spike. They BEND! Been there for over 35 years.......still don't have a Home Theater. I live in the Hayloft area...no Walls worth even trying to have a screen on. If I ever pour a slab downstairs, I'd gain over 3000 sq feet. Only got 1800 up.



Those Column Braces are rough cut "Full 2" x 8 Oak, so they can anchor almost any Ceiling Design. Don't dare touch 'em! I see a high vaulted Slopes running down the lengths of each of the sides. (Built in HVAC Distribution Plenums...Ta da!) and a smaller continuance of that Sloped design inside the extension. Those Slopes could be framed so that they serve as Bass Traps and Resonant Absorbent panels to absolve the echo-like ringing such a space would have otherwise.

The last time I got involved in a project like this it morphed into a 14 seat, 3 Tier layout...9.7.4 system with a 180" Painted Poly-carbonate Screen. 17,000 watts total. Yep....we did that one on a slooow budget too. Took 2.5 years from start to finish.

Before that...there was the 18 Seat'er with a 208" Painted Drywall screen shown above. The FO Star Field was both incredible and a incredible PITA. But we won't speak about that budget.....

You got the space...I can see potential now that was not apparent before. Framing like what is needed at this point won't cost any more to do it right, so...just do it!

I'll send you a pdf with a conceptual diagram...in 2D. You can then render it in 3D.


Check your PM.
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post #27 of 31 Old 09-17-2019, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
Am I seeing this right? Is the space above the 9.8 high section available for a recessed shelf or hushbox for the projector? That really is an important consideration - makes that orientation a no-brainer in my book. Gaining that much height will require much lower risers.
It also looks like you could incorporate the polebarn supports into a design without giving up the space, or simply put in an architectural beam between them at 13 feet or so to eliminate them. 10 minutes with an engineer should answer that.
You're not wrong, Scott. But actually, it's more/better than that. There's quite a bit of space up there for grabs in theory. I modified the first diagram I posted to give a more zoomed out view of the side profile. There's an arrow pointing to the space in question. It's not to scale, but it illustrates the shape/space I have to work with. The construction is rather odd I suppose; it's actually a "double" barn, the two roofs meeting about halfway down and joined by a "walkway" that you can indeed get up onto and walk on. The underside of the walkway is visible in the photo I posted of the inside and it's what more or less limits the height to 14', otherwise the room could even be higher!

I wanted to keep all barn structural elements outside of the (box-in-box) structure because I don't want any risk of the whole thing shaking. Not that I think it will fall down - it's totally solid - but I don't know how it will react to lots of bass so I just thought I would eliminate that unknown. It's the same with the poles themselves. I'm working in between them rather than thinking about incorporating them in the room and so that's what restricts the width of the room.

I'm quite certain you could build a second tier of seating in the space you're referring to, yet alone a "shelf" as you put it. Oh my, two tiers... I don't need two tiers... but how exquisite would that be! This is getting out of hand...
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post #28 of 31 Old 09-18-2019, 06:02 AM
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When I see two roof peaks coming together like that my first thought is future leaks when it rains.
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post #29 of 31 Old 09-18-2019, 07:32 AM
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When I see two roof peaks coming together like that my first thought is future leaks when it rains.
Definitely needs to be addressed before pouring thousands of dollars into what really could be one of the best spaces on AVS if done correctly.

Roll Tide.
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post #30 of 31 Old 09-18-2019, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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When I see two roof peaks coming together like that my first thought is future leaks when it rains.
Definitely needs to be addressed before pouring thousands of dollars into what really could be one of the best spaces on AVS if done correctly.
That’s pressure! Indeed I’m aware it’s a good space and that’s why I’m here asking for advice. I don’t want to screw it up and waste the potential!
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