A Fairytale Wine Cellar - DIY(SG) Basement Theater - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 23 Old 09-28-2019, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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A Fairytale Wine Cellar - DIY(SG) Basement Theater

Hi Everyone,

I’ve been a member on this forum since I was a kid. I’ve learned a lot of the years, and built a number of mixed use spaces (first at my parents at 12, and then in a condo in my 20s). Now, solidly in my 30s, married, with 2 kids, I have the opportunity to build my first dedicated home theater, and couldn’t be more excited.
I’ve been thinking about this for many years and nearly everyone on my street has a dedicated theater done by local professionals. So I’ve refined the things I like (and don’t like). My goal is to create a place for everyone to enjoy, fit 6-8 people normally, but up to 20 with outside seating brought in. We want it themed like a fairytale wine cellar, with an open wine cellar behind.
While I’ve been back and forth on screen ratio, I’ve settled on 16x9. I’ll probably mostly watch sports, then concert DVDs/Blu Rays, movies a third before series TV last. Movies is just too far down the list to go scope, and 16x9 will save me some expense up front. I will probably do some manual vertical masking if the unused screen space frustrates me enough. The screen is going to be the biggest I can reasonably fit in the space, 172” diagonal (150” wide, 84” tall).
For audio, I want it to be as immersive as possible, and play at reference levels freely with plenty of headroom. I’m opting for a 7.2.4 Atmos Setup, with the fronts buried behind the AT screen in a baffle wall. I know it’s difficult to determine SW placement before the room is built; however, with the style we’re looking for, my locations are predetermined. So I’ll just have to bump up the output to compensate 😉.

We’ve had the floor plan, and some preliminary design worked up already (very reasonably by an architect in Venezuela via Fiverr!) The measurements aren’t exactly clear, but basically the theater is 20’ wide, 20.5’ deep (throw distance from PJ), ceiling height is 8.5’ where the starscape and screen are, the wooden ceiling/soffit is 12” lower at 7.5’ (for HVAC and Structural Support).







Timeline – hold me to this! I’m planning to spend January building the speakers, February-March getting the place framed, April-May rough mechanicals, June Dry Wall, July-August trim, paint, and system programming/calibration. Everything ready to go for kickoff of the NFL season in 2020!

Equipment –
I should mention that I’m trying to keep everything in a reasonable budget. I’m not cheap, but I don’t like to waste money, and I hate being an early adopter. I’d much rather buy high end stuff that’s 5-10 years old (and 75-90% off MSRP), and I’ve made those decisions for my solid state items (many of which I’ve already purchased!) I will be buying new speakers, subwoofers, and screen. Used processor, amps, and projector.
Speakers –
Front LCR – DIYSG Titan 615LX -
Main Surrounds (for 5.1 tracks) – DIYSG HT-12 -
Atmos and surrounds – DIYSG Volt 8 -
Subwoofers – (4) Full Marty Dayton UltiMax 18 -


Processor – Integra DHC 80.6 -
All balanced XLR out to:
Amplifiers – Ashly FTX-2001 (x3 for LCR)
Ashly FET-500 (for HT-12) -
Ashly Powerflex 6250 (for the ATMOS and Surround Volt 8)
Subwoofer – 2x Behringer NX6000DSP -
Projector – Digital Projection HighLite Cine 660 – I got a great deal on two of these, one for spare parts, and one for the display. I really wanted a bright 3 Chip DLP, and this hits the mark. I had been planning on a Runco, but this was suggested to me by a local installer, and he’s here to support and program it.

Screen – Gotta support the guys that founded the forum, and have provided such great advice over the years. Screen Acoustics 150" Wide AVS Custom 16x9 screen. (172” diagonal).

Would love advice on construction methods, speaker location, equipment location, etc. Thanks for following along. Also, does anyone remember the member that used to travel around and paint the starscapes? Would love to track him down.
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Last edited by JustBusiness; 09-28-2019 at 08:39 AM.
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-28-2019, 10:53 AM
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The design is wonderful, can’t wait to see the finished product. Hopefully the bass doesn’t rattle the wine too much!
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post #3 of 23 Old 09-28-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sor View Post
The design is wonderful, can’t wait to see the finished product. Hopefully the bass doesn’t rattle the wine too much!

That is not a hope made in jest. Considerable Room Decor & Design alterations are going to need to be considered with the equipment & speakers choices that are listed.



I think the choice of the DP-660 is a bit misguided....probably more a opportunity for that local Dealer to place them with a willing Buyer that really being suitable for a Theater such as yours in this day and age. 3-Chipper DLPs were always a "Lust After" Item.....but they have been supplanted by the top Tier Native 4K Projectors.


What you need is a smokin' deal on a NX9.

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post #4 of 23 Old 09-29-2019, 07:59 AM
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So you will be able to access the bathroom from the theater, but not the equipment? Is that a drawing mistake?
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-30-2019, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for taking a look guys. Getting some great ideas.

@sor - the vibrations for the wine is absolutely a concern. Probably going to use some decoupling and isolation construction techniques for the rack. For now, I don't have much wine that is of the provenance that I will be concerned, but someday when I grow up and my palate does, that'll be a concern. Honestly, I'm planning on not actively cooling that space, and keeping the whole room around 66-68 degrees.

@MississippiMan - Looking forward to hearing more about your ideas for decor/material choices for constuction. The renderings are designed to give a whimsical feeling, but I agree the stone/brick use might be a little heavy handed. Will likely include more wood, and potentially some fabric. As for the DP 660, I couldn't afford an RS1000, let alone an NX9 for the price I got the DP 660 for. I know it's not ideal, but the 3 chip, and intense brightness will go along way (especially with the big 0.9 gain screen). This will likely be the first item upgraded after construction is done, and we've enjoyed it for several years.

@SteveCallas - It is an oversight. The room will be accessible via a hidden door in the bathroom (disguised as a recessed linen cabinet). We'll also have the door that's drawn for access to storage/tool area beyond the AV closet.

Keep the ideas coming. Curious about Subwoofer placement, specfic acoustical treatment suggestions, speaker locations, and construction methods.

Thanks!
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-01-2019, 01:42 PM
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Fun and unique project here. Looking forward to it!

Roll Tide.
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-07-2019, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Update time. 10/7/2019

Well the first step to the project is getting the space ready. We've had a basement full of stuff since we moved in 4 years ago. Both of our parents dumped all of our worldly possessions on us, and my grandmother passed away, so most of her stuff made it to our basement. We set up an appointment with habitat for humanity to come and take everything they wanted (furniture, building materials, etc.) Surprisingly they took everything we wanted, and even came back a few days later since we filled the truck up on day 1. We also kicked the kids a few extra bucks to move a dresser upstairs that we couldn't handle.

This weekend, I hired a friend's brother to work with me on the basement and garage. Both spaces have been neglected since we moved in, and some items were in the basement that should be in the garage and vice versa. There was excess construction dust, and debris all over since we moved in prior to construction truly being finished. I wish I had taken before photos, but I guess this will suffice for the before photos as the project gets rolling.







As for the planning, I've had quite a few discussions offline with various forum members. There are a few points up for additional discussion and input.

1) Projector and Projector screen Size decision. I've always wanted a "big boy" projector, because they seem to have some image qualities that go beyond the numbers (Runco, Digital Projection, and Barco for example). Obviously new models are prohibitively expensive (and more than my entire project). I got an opportunity to get a DP HighLITE Cine 660. It's 4 years old, and 1080p (3 Chip DLP, 8,000 Lumens, 2,000:1 Contrast, 8-bit color). Clearly, it's no longer top of the line, but the 8,000 lumens is tempting given my appetite for for ambient light, and larger than life screen size (150" wide, 16x9). That being said, if the image is so large, seating so close, that we're really going to notice the missing pixels from a more modern 4K, 10 bit projector, maybe I will need to switch gears a bit. I'm open to a projector under $5k. If I can't get what I need for that price, I'll go for the DP 660 for now, and upgrade in a few years when cash flow allows. The JVC ones that everyone seems to use around here appear to have too low of light output for my screen size, and also my throw distance (20'+). If I went JVC, I'd likely cut it down to 150" 2.37:1, but that significantly changes things. Also, clearly doesn't leave room for a projector lens.

2) Acoustic Treatments. We clearly have a defined vision for our architecture. I will say, the architect was a little heavy handed with the stone. We're looking at hiding the surround (non ATMOS) Volt and HT-12s behind fabric made to look like Stucco (material suggestions?) and doubling the area behind there with acoustic treatments/absorption material. Additionally, the openings to the wine/music area are problematic from an acoustical standpoint. While some more permanent acoustic traps would likely be the best solution sonically, we want to keep the openings for our use. When we are having discerning listening times, I think we can use VERY heavy, multiple layer/material drapes (floor to ceiling), that will be pulled back behind the rear speaker pillars when not in use, or span the entire gap on each side from speaker pillar to projector pillar. Any suggestions on material for the drapes to be most effective? We're going to bend pipe ourselves, and have them coated brass to fit our aesthetic and mount directly to the ceiling beams to be strong enough for these drapes.

3) Night Sky Mural or LED (or both). I've reached out to Night Sky Mural, and I tend to like the artistry in painting over predefined size of LED/Fiber Optics in the nightscape, but charging sounds exhausting (unless I automate that with built in dedicated "charging" lights that I set on a program each day). Just typing it out, I think that's probably the best. Has anyone else done this?

Thanks again for the input, love hearing from everyone. I will probably start a separate thread for the projector/projector screen discussion to get some more eyes on it. I'll link it over here.
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post #8 of 23 Old 10-07-2019, 12:04 PM
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The renders do look beautiful, of course as you just said they don't seem to take anything acoustic into account. (besides the the speaker locations) I wasn't sure if this was going to be a "form over function" design. It would look stunning to be sure, but would have a lot of hard reflection. I would get some input on some modifications there. You can probably keep most of the stone while throwing in some good black or
brown treatments in there that would still look good with the rest of the room.

Love the speaker choices! I am going to be changing my speakers to DIYSG speakers soon myself. I just never get around to it.

For the mural, there are pros and cons of each. A Night Sky Mural will look MUCH better (more realistic) when charged and the room is dark but not so much when the room is lit. You can have black lights on it when the lights are on to be able to see it, but if you are going to be in a room that will have lights on more often than not, you would want to consider an active ceiling. Another option would be to have a painted mural (like clouds) with a night sky mural over it, so you see one thing in the light and another in the dark. I don't use my star ceiling that often, but when I charge it up and show it to new guests they love it.

What is your plan with all of your support poles? They don't all appear in your renders. Are they not going to be in the way of your space?
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-07-2019, 12:09 PM
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It took me a long time to figure out where that multipurpose theater room was going to go in that sea of support columns. The screen will be where the Christmas Tree is sitting. I look forward to seeing this project move along as it progresses.
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-07-2019, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post
The renders do look beautiful, of course as you just said they don't seem to take anything acoustic into account. (besides the the speaker locations) I wasn't sure if this was going to be a "form over function" design. It would look stunning to be sure, but would have a lot of hard reflection. I would get some input on some modifications there. You can probably keep most of the stone while throwing in some good black or
brown treatments in there that would still look good with the rest of the room.

Love the speaker choices! I am going to be changing my speakers to DIYSG speakers soon myself. I just never get around to it.

For the mural, there are pros and cons of each. A Night Sky Mural will look MUCH better (more realistic) when charged and the room is dark but not so much when the room is lit. You can have black lights on it when the lights are on to be able to see it, but if you are going to be in a room that will have lights on more often than not, you would want to consider an active ceiling. Another option would be to have a painted mural (like clouds) with a night sky mural over it, so you see one thing in the light and another in the dark. I don't use my star ceiling that often, but when I charge it up and show it to new guests they love it.

What is your plan with all of your support poles? They don't all appear in your renders. Are they not going to be in the way of your space?
No support poles will be in the space at all, the only one will be buried in the projector column. I wanted it that way. Looking on the computer the space looks a lot smaller on screen than in person. It's about 2400 square feet down there. The ceiling heights will be different (as you can see in the rendering). The high point is 8' 9", and the low point is 7'6" We're planning to keep just two heights to make it seem intentional.

Point taken on acoustic treatment/design. That's why I'm here! Any specific construction methods/materials are appreciated.

Looking more and more in to the projector, I think I'm sticking with the original plan. There's no way for me to afford a 4K (or even a faux K) with the lumens required for my size space/screen aspirations.

What does everyone think about the screen size? 150" wide, 84" tall, 172" diagonal. Our ceiling there will be 104", so only 10" from the top and bottom if we keep the distances equal. We're thinking about moving it up, so it's 6" from the top of the ceiling, and 14" from the floor.

Going to build my first set of Volt 8s this weekend to give them a listen, and make sure I like how they sound. Then I'll start ordering the other speakers.
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post #11 of 23 Old 10-07-2019, 02:41 PM
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Are you removing all of the poles, or are they going to be hidden? Wasn't sure if "in the space" meant current state of the "sea of poles" and unfinished "space" or "space" as in when things are all said and done you won't notice the poles? Removing poles is not hard if you have the structural walls in their place (been there and have done that myself), but that is still a LOT of poles to replace with other support structures.

Yeah, I just cringe when I see a lot of hard surfaces in a room for acoustics. You need to account for acoustical treatments during construction just like you would any soundproofing technologies. To do the acoustics right takes hiring someone to map it out so that those technologies can be incorporated into the overall size of the space. Otherwise you could go "surface mounted" acoustical treatments later, but they will take away from the clean look that they are trying to sell you on.

That projector is still 8 year old technology even if that particular one is 4 years old (started shipping in 2011). Don't get me wrong, I am still rocking a JVC RS-45 that I got around that same time, but if I was buying a projector, I would go at least faux-K. Being a JVC, mine screams for fully light controlled room to get those inky black levels that everyone talks about, but we still watch stuff with a little ambient light on my 138" 1.78:1 almost 1.0 - 1.2 gain (depending on who you ask) Seymour XD screen. Just saying that something with an 8000 lumens rating may not be needed. It is your money though, and maybe it is a good value.

You will probably want your screen to be a little higher than centered height actually. Keep in mind that the lower the screen is, the harder anyone beyond the 1st row may have in seeing over the front row heads, but more importantly, the screen should be such that your seated eye height is closer to around 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen. I've attached an image that I grabbed from Cinema Source (via a google search), so I wanted to give them credit.

The Volts are very popular for surround/Atmos duty, so they should sound pretty good. I've not heard the Volt-8s but have heard the Volt-6s.

Not sure how you plan to make fabric look like stucco until you have the fabric custom printed. If you put anything in front of your speakers, you want the most acoustically transparent material you can get. It cannot have anything "fancy" done to it or it just starts to block various frequencies. You can take the following discussion about custom movie poster acoustical panels for inspiration of custom printed fabric (can print anything on it pretty much) and use the idea for inspiration. Fabric choice will need to be experimented with a bit, but some companies offer sample packs of fabric so you can see the print quality and test the audio transparency.
DIY Custom Printed Movie Poster Acoustic Panels - Cheap!

As for LED star ceiling vs Night Sky Murals, I would vote Night Sky. I have had 3 different start ceilings over the years, all powered by real light (current is a smaller "window to the stars" style with the traditional fiber optic leads, powered by an LED source that provides the random twinkling effect too. It is neat, but honestly, I end up not turning it on much. A couple of years ago I reworked it to be a larger acoustical absorption panel and instead of having a mediocrely painted surface, I covered the new version with a photo from NASA if the milky way. It looks more cool with the lights on than with the lights off, and I have actually found that if I sit in my 2nd row, the angle is just right that the twinkling stars is annoying.

Step into a room with a "charged" Night Sky Mural ceiling and turn off the lights and it is like "WOW!". Sure, you can't see it with the lights on (unless you have one person paint a mural and then hire Night Sky to paint the glowing stars) and it does fade when not being "charged," but I think that would be nice to have them slowly fade away as people get more and more engrossed into a movie or show. Again, just my opinion.

Other random thoughts.
I am not a huge fan of dropping subs right into the corners, but there are people that like to do that. Again, personal preference.
See if it works out to flip the half bath door with the toilet to be closer to the wine cellar. It just puts the bathroom light more inclined to shine back into the wine cellar than on to the people sitting to enjoy a show. I know that the side walls are set to angle in right around that location, but something to consider.

Anyway, enough from me. I am not trying to muddy the waters with anything here, just offering one guy's perspective.
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post #12 of 23 Old 10-08-2019, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
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Other random thoughts.
I am not a huge fan of dropping subs right into the corners, but there are people that like to do that. Again, personal preference.
See if it works out to flip the half bath door with the toilet to be closer to the wine cellar. It just puts the bathroom light more inclined to shine back into the wine cellar than on to the people sitting to enjoy a show. I know that the side walls are set to angle in right around that location, but something to consider.

Anyway, enough from me. I am not trying to muddy the waters with anything here, just offering one guy's perspective.
Actually, on that same note... is there any possibility of flipping the location of the bathroom and the A/V room? Maybe put the door to the bathroom then right next to the sink in the wine cellar? You could even have the A/V room door where the bathroom door is, or have a visible A/V rack that way if you wanted. Just some other random thoughts.
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post #13 of 23 Old 10-08-2019, 11:01 AM
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How fun. A house we looked at before we bought ours had a small wine cellar (large closet) in the basement. I always wonder what we'd have done with it if we'd bought it.
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post #14 of 23 Old 10-09-2019, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
Are you removing all of the poles, or are they going to be hidden? Wasn't sure if "in the space" meant current state of the "sea of poles" and unfinished "space" or "space" as in when things are all said and done you won't notice the poles? Removing poles is not hard if you have the structural walls in their place (been there and have done that myself), but that is still a LOT of poles to replace with other support structures.
All of the poles will be buried/hidden in walls in the finished area. They look much closer together in the photos than in real life. Please refer to the blue prints for questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
Yeah, I just cringe when I see a lot of hard surfaces in a room for acoustics. You need to account for acoustical treatments during construction just like you would any soundproofing technologies. To do the acoustics right takes hiring someone to map it out so that those technologies can be incorporated into the overall size of the space. Otherwise you could go "surface mounted" acoustical treatments later, but they will take away from the clean look that they are trying to sell you on.
Totally get it. Trying to mitigate the reflections while maintaining our aesthetic. Thinking some custom acoustical panels like the ones you mention below, some heavy drapes between the wine area and theater, and some acoustic grout may be able to help quite a bit (acoustic grout suggestion from another member, still need to find it!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
That projector is still 8 year old technology even if that particular one is 4 years old (started shipping in 2011). Don't get me wrong, I am still rocking a JVC RS-45 that I got around that same time, but if I was buying a projector, I would go at least faux-K. Being a JVC, mine screams for fully light controlled room to get those inky black levels that everyone talks about, but we still watch stuff with a little ambient light on my 138" 1.78:1 almost 1.0 - 1.2 gain (depending on who you ask) Seymour XD screen. Just saying that something with an 8000 lumens rating may not be needed. It is your money though, and maybe it is a good value.
Projector and screen decision is still actively up for debate/discussion. I'm going to start a separate thread in the $3k+ Projector area to get some more expert input. I've been guided both ways, and now also have an opportunity to get a colorwheel 5000 lumen DP 1080p unit for significantly less, which will push me to upgrade more quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
You will probably want your screen to be a little higher than centered height actually. Keep in mind that the lower the screen is, the harder anyone beyond the 1st row may have in seeing over the front row heads, but more importantly, the screen should be such that your seated eye height is closer to around 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen. I've attached an image that I grabbed from Cinema Source (via a google search), so I wanted to give them credit.
Thanks for this. Noted. We'll pull the screen up as far as comfortable. Probably 6" from ceiling, and 14" off the ground. Not a huge change, but in the right direction, and I think about as high as will look right.

Quote:
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As for LED star ceiling vs Night Sky Murals, I would vote Night Sky. I have had 3 different start ceilings over the years, all powered by real light (current is a smaller "window to the stars" style with the traditional fiber optic leads, powered by an LED source that provides the random twinkling effect too. It is neat, but honestly, I end up not turning it on much. A couple of years ago I reworked it to be a larger acoustical absorption panel and instead of having a mediocrely painted surface, I covered the new version with a photo from NASA if the milky way. It looks more cool with the lights on than with the lights off, and I have actually found that if I sit in my 2nd row, the angle is just right that the twinkling stars is annoying.

Step into a room with a "charged" Night Sky Mural ceiling and turn off the lights and it is like "WOW!". Sure, you can't see it with the lights on (unless you have one person paint a mural and then hire Night Sky to paint the glowing stars) and it does fade when not being "charged," but I think that would be nice to have them slowly fade away as people get more and more engrossed into a movie or show. Again, just my opinion.
This is great, exactly the input I'm looking for. Painted night sky mural with charge ability, and strategically place automated charging floods it is. Now to select, place and disguise those floods....

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
Other random thoughts.
I am not a huge fan of dropping subs right into the corners, but there are people that like to do that. Again, personal preference.
See if it works out to flip the half bath door with the toilet to be closer to the wine cellar. It just puts the bathroom light more inclined to shine back into the wine cellar than on to the people sitting to enjoy a show. I know that the side walls are set to angle in right around that location, but something to consider.

Anyway, enough from me. I am not trying to muddy the waters with anything here, just offering one guy's perspective.
Appreciate the perspective and candid advice. I'm trying to collect it all and make the right decisions for my family, and I think you offered some great insight. Unfortunately, my hands are tied for the sub placement, and the bathroom. For subs, I can't really move them and keep the aesthetic we're going for. Actually, thinking about it some more, would it be an improvement to integrate (2) of the Marty's in to the back corners with the HT-12 surrounds in the pillars? I could just make those pillars larger...

The bathroom plumbing (ejection pit, drains, etc) are already in place, so i'm stuck with that. I also want to leave enough room for the "kitchen" - dishwasher, refrigerator, and warming drawers are all going in there, as well as glass storage.

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Actually, on that same note... is there any possibility of flipping the location of the bathroom and the A/V room? Maybe put the door to the bathroom then right next to the sink in the wine cellar? You could even have the A/V room door where the bathroom door is, or have a visible A/V rack that way if you wanted. Just some other random thoughts.
Thanks @damelon Unfortunately the bathroom position is locked due to plumbing being done already.

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How fun. A house we looked at before we bought ours had a small wine cellar (large closet) in the basement. I always wonder what we'd have done with it if we'd bought it.
I've always wanted a nice one, and let some bottles age for an appropriate amount of time. I've got 200 bottles or so right now waiting to fill it up!
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post #15 of 23 Old 10-09-2019, 10:34 AM
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Update time. 10/7/2019

2) Acoustic Treatments. We clearly have a defined vision for our architecture. I will say, the architect was a little heavy handed with the stone. We're looking at hiding the surround (non ATMOS) Volt and HT-12s behind fabric made to look like Stucco (material suggestions?) and doubling the area behind there with acoustic treatments/absorption material. Additionally, the openings to the wine/music area are problematic from an acoustical standpoint. While some more permanent acoustic traps would likely be the best solution sonically, we want to keep the openings for our use. When we are having discerning listening times, I think we can use VERY heavy, multiple layer/material drapes (floor to ceiling), that will be pulled back behind the rear speaker pillars when not in use, or span the entire gap on each side from speaker pillar to projector pillar. Any suggestions on material for the drapes to be most effective? We're going to bend pipe ourselves, and have them coated brass to fit our aesthetic and mount directly to the ceiling beams to be strong enough for these drapes.
Take a look at the recent Home Theater of the Month, the TRON themed Waldo's & Flynn's Arcade. They have some great looking stone in the theatre, but it has been softened with acoustic treatment panels that were highlighted with lighting and look really amazing if you ask me. You could work something like that into your design and play with fabric and lighting to really come up with something special. And like @nickbuol mentioned, you can have custom artwork panels printed if you want to go that route. Maybe famous winery posters or wine labels? One more way to go is to use some nice wood acoustic treatments, like some custom diffusion panels. You can use the wood look to give the room an older rustic feel, but still gain the benefit of treatment.
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Take a look at the recent Home Theater of the Month, the TRON themed Waldo's & Flynn's Arcade. They have some great looking stone in the theatre, but it has been softened with acoustic treatment panels that were highlighted with lighting and look really amazing if you ask me. You could work something like that into your design and play with fabric and lighting to really come up with something special. And like @nickbuol mentioned, you can have custom artwork panels printed if you want to go that route. Maybe famous winery posters or wine labels? One more way to go is to use some nice wood acoustic treatments, like some custom diffusion panels. You can use the wood look to give the room an older rustic feel, but still gain the benefit of treatment.
Thanks @OJ_Bartley I hadn't seen that theater yet, and boy is it gorgeous. The aesthetic is very similar to what we're looking to do, albeit for a DIY+ plus budget. I wish there were more construction methods shared.... Reaching out to the Acoustics guy to see if he'll chime in here, or privately. I think their mixed masonry and fabric acoustic, along with wood trim is probably what we'll do. Now finding the right tradesman/men to get it done is another issue. I also like that I can probably hide some charging lights in the wood/gypsum/fabric/masonry transitions to get the night sky mural to really pop reliably/automatically.

Keep the ideas coming. Thanks again everyone. Appreciate the time and attention.
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Might I suggest building some angled boxes for your atmos speakers. Those volt 8s dont have a great off axis response and having them fiire straight down youll be down easy 10db on the upper hz ranging making their content sound off. If they need to be flush with the ceiling a box similar to what triad uses on their in ceiling LCR models would be ideal.

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Might I suggest building some angled boxes for your atmos speakers. Those volt 8s dont have a great off axis response and having them fiire straight down youll be down easy 10db on the upper hz ranging making their content sound off. If they need to be flush with the ceiling a box similar to what triad uses on their in ceiling LCR models would be ideal.
Great point. I've read so much about the Volt/Titan/HTM speakers, and realize there's quite a bit of discussion that's not actually backed by much data, specifically off axis response. Through some additional discussions and analysis, I'm thinking of backing off the DIYSG, and moving toward Triad Gold LCR. Which comes at a price, but I guess I have to build less. A little disappointing since I'd been planning on DIYSG for so long, but I've been more drawn to their impressive dynamics, than to their fitting my use/room. I had been planning on overcoming my room acoustics with MORE POWER!!! and Electronic DSP, but I realize now that's kinda foolish.....

So....any other suggestions than Triad Gold LCR (or used Platinums if this quarter goes well.....)

Thanks,

Justin
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post #19 of 23 Old 10-10-2019, 09:37 AM
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Great point. I've read so much about the Volt/Titan/HTM speakers, and realize there's quite a bit of discussion that's not actually backed by much data, specifically off axis response. Through some additional discussions and analysis, I'm thinking of backing off the DIYSG, and moving toward Triad Gold LCR. Which comes at a price, but I guess I have to build less. A little disappointing since I'd been planning on DIYSG for so long, but I've been more drawn to their impressive dynamics, than to their fitting my use/room. I had been planning on overcoming my room acoustics with MORE POWER!!! and Electronic DSP, but I realize now that's kinda foolish.....

So....any other suggestions than Triad Gold LCR (or used Platinums if this quarter goes well.....)

Thanks,

Justin
I will be the first one to say adding more power to a poorly build/treated room will usually make things worse. In my original HT setup I had horrible nulls and I just kept adding more and more subs hoping to eq down the response. I ended up with 12 ported 18s and a worse room curve than when I had just 3. I rebuilt my theater (dedicated design) and got speakers which best fit my application and then treated it for those speakers and their dispersion. Im down to 7 subs all co-located and its clean and clear and so much louder than before at the LP but loud in a good balanced way.

Traid makes some rad stuff and ya your right its $$$. I still think you could go the DIY rout. I have heard the titans and I wasnt in love especially for how large they are give you less placement options. Its real easy to get caught up in the DIY groups as they are all crazy and just love SPL. I know cause I was one of them. I did many speaker listening tests most of them blind and I really liked the 1099s. They have insane output and are a well designed speaker. Sure you need a sub but you need a sub always so that shouldnt be a factor. To me the 1099s ( and most of our group) we liked the 1099s over most of the jtr, seatson, salks, titans and some qsc speakers. To be honest only speaker I liked better was the JBL lsr305 which amazed us all. ANother reason why I kinda want to upgrade to the 708s for LCR.

Tangent aside. You could still do a DIY setup for LCR and even surrounds. I would do 1099's LCR, HTM8s for surrounds and surround back and for atmos a angled in ceiling speaker ( klipsch pro 180 has a 45 degree angle and are $350 ish, paradigm makes a 30 degree angled speaker) Or you could give up after looking at different atmos speakers for months and just get some RSL in ceilings cause at the end of the day you want good on axis response and dispersion which those speaker have also they are dirt cheap. Or JBL scs8 would make a great option as well and they would be voiced very close to the 1099s. You could even do scs8 for surrounds and surround backs. Its what all the JBL m2 people use (aside form 7 series speakers). You could also rock some 4722 for LCR you have the room width. Ideally you want those LR speakers to be as far apart as your LP is to get nice stereo imaging. But 4722 should be in a baffle wall. In fact I would say always go baffle wall if you can. Get that extra 6+db! while you enjoy some Mighty Taco and sip down a Community Beer Works IPA.

The traid silver in ceilings cost are going to run you around $500-700 each depending on your dealer. The Golds LCR are also pretty expensive. I am like you I could afford it but the cheap sake in me says "why bother when I know like 2% better for 10x the cost". If you were not 7 ish hours away I would some come over for a demo.

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Thanks @OJ_Bartley I hadn't seen that theater yet, and boy is it gorgeous. The aesthetic is very similar to what we're looking to do, albeit for a DIY+ plus budget. I wish there were more construction methods shared.... Reaching out to the Acoustics guy to see if he'll chime in here, or privately. I think their mixed masonry and fabric acoustic, along with wood trim is probably what we'll do. Now finding the right tradesman/men to get it done is another issue. I also like that I can probably hide some charging lights in the wood/gypsum/fabric/masonry transitions to get the night sky mural to really pop reliably/automatically.

Keep the ideas coming. Thanks again everyone. Appreciate the time and attention.
and for the record LaNova makes the best wings. You can choose all one or two bone!

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post #21 of 23 Old 10-11-2019, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Tangent aside. You could still do a DIY setup for LCR and even surrounds. I would do 1099's LCR, HTM8s for surrounds and surround back and for atmos a angled in ceiling speaker ( klipsch pro 180 has a 45 degree angle and are $350 ish, paradigm makes a 30 degree angled speaker) Or you could give up after looking at different atmos speakers for months and just get some RSL in ceilings cause at the end of the day you want good on axis response and dispersion which those speaker have also they are dirt cheap. Or JBL scs8 would make a great option as well and they would be voiced very close to the 1099s. You could even do scs8 for surrounds and surround backs. Its what all the JBL m2 people use (aside form 7 series speakers). You could also rock some 4722 for LCR you have the room width. Ideally you want those LR speakers to be as far apart as your LP is to get nice stereo imaging. But 4722 should be in a baffle wall. In fact I would say always go baffle wall if you can. Get that extra 6+db! while you enjoy some Mighty Taco and sip down a Community Beer Works IPA.

The traid silver in ceilings cost are going to run you around $500-700 each depending on your dealer. The Golds LCR are also pretty expensive. I am like you I could afford it but the cheap sake in me says "why bother when I know like 2% better for 10x the cost". If you were not 7 ish hours away I would some come over for a demo.
I'm really torn on the speaker selection. From what I (sort of) understand, the DIY (as you suggest) are aimed at high volume, and are probably better suited to even larger spaces where the MLP is like 25-30' away. So, that's not going to be the case with my space. I imagine most of the JBLs suggested are similar in best use (bigger spaces). They certainly look impressive (and I'm sure sound incredible), but right now I'm leaning toward going Triad, and just acquiring equipment more slowly (likely take me an extra bonus check or two).

I might just jump to the Platinum (preowned) and be settled with my front LCR for the remainder of my time in the house (10-15 years), and focus future upgrades on new projectors/screens/ALens, etc. Maybe some better wine some day too.

There's a Mighty Taco right around the corner from us, which is always a late night stop. La Nova is pretty good, but the food around here has really improved over the past 10 years - best wings now are at ABV and Bar Bill.
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I'm really torn on the speaker selection. From what I (sort of) understand, the DIY (as you suggest) are aimed at high volume, and are probably better suited to even larger spaces where the MLP is like 25-30' away. So, that's not going to be the case with my space. I imagine most of the JBLs suggested are similar in best use (bigger spaces). They certainly look impressive (and I'm sure sound incredible), but right now I'm leaning toward going Triad, and just acquiring equipment more slowly (likely take me an extra bonus check or two).

I might just jump to the Platinum (preowned) and be settled with my front LCR for the remainder of my time in the house (10-15 years), and focus future upgrades on new projectors/screens/ALens, etc. Maybe some better wine some day too.

There's a Mighty Taco right around the corner from us, which is always a late night stop. La Nova is pretty good, but the food around here has really improved over the past 10 years - best wings now are at ABV and Bar Bill.
Havent been to ABV I will check them out next time im around. triad Platinum are sweet. DIY speakers are very dynamic and sound similar to what you have in a movie theater. The parts used in them are good and a very high value. Something like a procella speaker would be similar to the DIY stuff but costing tons more. For the cost of 3 HTM-12s you couldnt buy a single Triad surround I dont think.

I would honestly say try to demo them if you can before spending that much cash on speakers. And honestly if You were thinking about spending that much on LCR JBL M2 will be a better speaker all around.

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post #23 of 23 Old 10-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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Hi Everyone
Spoiler!
I think your design looks fantastic. The room you end up with is not radically different in principle from the one I'm aiming for. I've possibly gone a little less wine, a little more cinema - but other than that very similar. Very interested to see how this turns out!

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