Cloverdale Cinema Build - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 148 Old 11-01-2019, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
I saw this at Cedia and it looked really nice. http://crimsonav.com/rc18u.html
Yeah that is what I was thinking when envisioning a roll out rack. I like that the RC18U has built in cooling. Nice Find!
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post #32 of 148 Old 11-02-2019, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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What size screen ? I don't see that. Just curious.


I’m thinking 120”. A good size for viewing at ~13’ and also won’t push my projector with respect light output.


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post #33 of 148 Old 11-02-2019, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PreciseD View Post
Yeah that is what I was thinking when envisioning a roll out rack. I like that the RC18U has built in cooling. Nice Find!


Yeah that looks PERFECT. Thinking of the 27U unit for future expansion...


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post #34 of 148 Old 11-02-2019, 08:19 PM
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Yeah that looks PERFECT. Thinking of the 27U unit for future expansion...


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I'll look into that ones dimensions and update your plan view tomorrow.
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post #35 of 148 Old 11-04-2019, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll look into that ones dimensions and update your plan view tomorrow.


Ok great!

The box is basically 24” square. I’m trying to figure out if I need additional space behind the box for extra wire that will allow me to roll the box out to work on the rear side? I’m guessing so.

Right now I have about 26” depth to work with (less framing and drywall = ~4” min), unless I bump out into the theater room side. Which I expect will be required, however the AV cabinet will be right behind the entry door, so there will only be an inch or two extra to work with.

As you can see it is likely going to be a tight fit!


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post #36 of 148 Old 11-06-2019, 03:40 PM
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Subscribed. Sounds like it will be a nice room when you're done. If it's my room I'm definitely trying to figure out how to get an AT screen in there. Just looks so much cleaner with the speakers hidden - plus the benefits of audio coming from where it is supposed to.
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post #37 of 148 Old 11-06-2019, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by p3bham View Post
Subscribed. Sounds like it will be a nice room when you're done. If it's my room I'm definitely trying to figure out how to get an AT screen in there. Just looks so much cleaner with the speakers hidden - plus the benefits of audio coming from where it is supposed to.
Thanks!

Still trying to figure out how i will frame around the screen etc.

Working on ordering products now.

Speaker wire: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2817

This wire good enough??

And this screen: https://elunevision.com/screens/auro...ated-nanoedge/

I'm look at this AV rack: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CDD-55-Tall...QAAOSwLjRa0tnf

I have an Elunevision 4k reference screen (92") right now and I love it. Need to go bigger for this room and I want an AT screen... not enough lumens on the Optoma UHD65 to go bigger than 120" though (at least thats what Im thinking at the moment).

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post #38 of 148 Old 11-11-2019, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Update:

I have now resolved several outstanding items on this theater space:

1) We are now able to remove the window at the front left (likely the first point of deflection, an high sound leakage, so this is a big deal)
2) We are also removing the pocket doors and the entry to the guest room/kids play room will be off of the main hall by the washroom. This makes sense on so many levels. I did have to give up half the garage though to a new office room.

So, as a result, we will now have a completely dedicated theater room!

Questions:

I am trying to figure out how to run speaker wire through the walls and not compromise sound proofing. Seems overkill to put in full gang boxes for each speaker. Is there not a more simple method? I'd like to use these:
https://www.midlite.com/products/pro...sh-Black-Plate

Not sure how they'd work with drywall installation and getting the speaker wire out in a precise location though.

Any recommendations for an AT screen? Any one with the Optoma UHD65 using an AT screen? Im a bit concerned it may not have enough lumens for a 120" AT screen.

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post #39 of 148 Old 11-11-2019, 03:19 PM
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Probably better off just having the wire come out a hole the same size and caulk it. I'd keep as many boxes out of the room as possible, unless you are making backer boxes for each one (which is laborious and takes up a lot of depth, which you might not have in your walls)
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post #40 of 148 Old 11-12-2019, 09:47 AM
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I was going to run my speaker wire to outlet boxes that will be wrapped with either putty pads or duck seal to help with sound leakage, but I am not to worried about sound leaking out into the rooms around my theater. I am more concerned about sound getting in.

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post #41 of 148 Old 11-12-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I was going to run my speaker wire to outlet boxes that will be wrapped with either putty pads or duck seal to help with sound leakage, but I am not to worried about sound leaking out into the rooms around my theater. I am more concerned about sound getting in.
Sound getting IN? Shouldn't really be much of a concern unless you have a basketball court in the room above. Honestly, movies rarely have any completely silent moments (even A Quiet Place) and if your system has any reasonable output, you're not gonna notice outside noise in your home theater.

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post #42 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 06:04 AM
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Sound getting IN? Shouldn't really be much of a concern unless you have a basketball court in the room above

Going to disagree, this is a residential basement. sounds like your neighbors lawnmower, dog, AC compressor will make their way into a theater. Overhead is a kitchen with I imagine a hard surface floor. Foot steps, dishwasher, refrigerator will create background noise. True you can always turn up the volume to overcome all this background noise, but it is better to start with the quietest room reasonably possible.

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post #43 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Twelton43 View Post
I’m thinking 120”. A good size for viewing at ~13’ and also won’t push my projector with respect light output.


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That will be easy to light up. My Cima Neve is 123" diagonal ( 16:9 ) and we sit about 10' from it.
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post #44 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Going to disagree, this is a residential basement. sounds like your neighbors lawnmower, dog, AC compressor will make there way into a theater. Overhead is a kitchen with I imagine a hard surface floor. Foot steps, dishwasher, refrigerator will create background noise. True you can always turn up the volume to overcome all this background noise, but it is better to start with the quietest room reasonably possible.
Yes our kitchen and living room is above my theater with hard wood floors. When my son is running around above I hear him bang around and sometimes our dogs. I will also hear or 10" sub in our 5.1 system when my wife is watching TV, but these don't happen all the time. The big one is hearing the HVAC kick on and run or the sump pump in the storage area when it rains a lot. I am more then likely going with clips and channel, double 5/8"drywall, Green glue and pick fluffy for the ceiling and IB-3 clips to decouple all the walls with double 5/8"drywall, Green glue and pick fluffy in the walls. I plan on backer boxes and will either use putty pads or duck seal on all outlets. Not sure if I will put double 5/8"drywall, Green glue between the floor joist or not yet. Would doing one layer help much? Just trying tor keep cost down.

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post #45 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I was talking to a home theater guy the other day and he told me that double 5/8” drywall w Green Glue treatment has been shown to adversely affect room modes wrt LFE. I presume this is related to not allowing bass out of the room (which is kind of the point wrt soundproofing).

To counter this, I understand substantial bass traps are needed? Any suggestions regarding DIY bass traps? Seems like they can be pretty expensive...


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post #46 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
Yes our kitchen and living room is above my theater with hard wood floors. When my son is running around above I hear him bang around and sometimes our dogs. I will also hear or 10" sub in our 5.1 system when my wife is watching TV, but these don't happen all the time. The big one is hearing the HVAC kick on and run or the sump pump in the storage area when it rains a lot. I am more then likely going with clips and channel, double 5/8"drywall, Green glue and pick fluffy for the ceiling and IB-3 clips to decouple all the walls with double 5/8"drywall, Green glue and pick fluffy in the walls. I plan on backer boxes and will either use putty pads or duck seal on all outlets. Not sure if I will put double 5/8"drywall, Green glue between the floor joist or not yet. Would doing one layer help much? Just trying tor keep cost down.
FWIW in my Theater I went with room within a room, on the ceiling I did one layer of OSB/GG/5/8" fire rock on clips and channel. The room above is the master closet (carpet with pad) and bathroom (tile.) If I had to do it over I would do the drywall and green glue between the joists. If you listen close you can here faint foot fall from the bathroom. That's with me working in the room and my wife walking around upstairs no music or anything. With music you can't here jack . No issues with HVAC and very slight pluming if the hall toilet is flushed but I suspect that will be non existent once the OC panels go up. For what its worth my wife just rolls her eyes and goes seriously? If you have to listen that hard in a perfectly quiet room you should move on LOL

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post #47 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 04:19 PM
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If I had to do it over I would do the drywall and green glue between the joists.
I wish I had done this too... My 2 and 4 year old are above my theater room and they are 30lb little monsters that sound like hippos running around lol..

I don't think any amount of sound proofing is really blocking 100% of anything.. Unless you have a concrete bunker within another bunker 200 ft from your house
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post #48 of 148 Old 11-13-2019, 05:32 PM
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I wish I had done this too... My 2 and 4 year old are above my theater room and they are 30lb little monsters that sound like hippos running around lol..



I don't think any amount of sound proofing is really blocking 100% of anything.. Unless you have a concrete bunker within another bunker 200 ft from your house
Most of the time I don't hear much unless the dogs get playing. My room is framed at 14'x25..75'x8.83' and have thought of going wider, but that means more money for drywall Green Glue. I may just stay with what I have and enjoy it. I can't believe how much more GG cost then a sheet of drywall. I have been an AVS Forum members concrete bunker and it is nice. He still went all out on soundproofing. The thing is my doesn't care about the noise getting out and with everything open I have nothing to compare it to.

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post #49 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 07:57 AM
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I did the double drywall and green glue job between the joists, and while I'm glad I did, it's by far the worst "home improvement" job I've ever done. It took me 60 hours to cut down 26 sheets of drywall into a total of 128 dimensionally unique pieces, and cover them with stinky smelly green glue, and then try to slip them up in between the joists. Meanwhile the glue gets on everything in your way (joists, wires, hvac, water pipes, gas lines), and then you bump your arms, hands, and head on it and you become a sticky mess that can only be cleaned up with chemicals. Definitely the worst part of the theater build by a mile. I'd rather have dug out a pit toilet by hand.
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post #50 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 08:34 AM
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I'd rather have dug out a pit toilet by hand.

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post #51 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Haha. Yeah. I did the double drywall w GG between the joist bays. By “me” I mean my dad and his contractor friend did it. We had all the electrical and HVAC removed so relatively easy installation. The tedious part is sealing all the cracks w acoustic sealant!

So has anyone heard of acoustic modes being exacerbated by double drywall and GG?


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post #52 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by htpc-geek View Post
I did the double drywall and green glue job between the joists, and while I'm glad I did, it's by far the worst "home improvement" job I've ever done. It took me 60 hours to cut down 26 sheets of drywall into a total of 128 dimensionally unique pieces, and cover them with stinky smelly green glue, and then try to slip them up in between the joists. Meanwhile the glue gets on everything in your way (joists, wires, hvac, water pipes, gas lines), and then you bump your arms, hands, and head on it and you become a sticky mess that can only be cleaned up with chemicals. Definitely the worst part of the theater build by a mile. I'd rather have dug out a pit toilet by hand.
I have a hardwood floor above so all the nails are pocking through underneath and I don't really want to spend the time cutting them down. Has anyone had any luck just pushing the drywall up against them. The only thing utilities wise I will have to work around are 3 6" duct runs. If I put the double drywall with Green glue I was thinking of replacing the duct runs with flexible ducts.

So you what did you fill the gaps in on the sides with, acoustical caulk?

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post #53 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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I have a hardwood floor above so all the nails are pocking through underneath and I don't really want to spend the time cutting them down. Has anyone had any luck just pushing the drywall up against them. The only thing utilities wise I will have to work around are 3 6" duct runs. If I put the double drywall with Green glue I was thinking of replacing the duct runs with flexible ducts.

So you what did you fill the gaps in on the sides with, acoustical caulk?
I don't think you could just push drywall into the nails, but maybe? I had a few nails here and there and just took them out with my angle grinder, but that was only a dozen or so. A whole hardwood floor would be a little demoralizing.

I did not fill any gaps with caulk in my between-the-joist drywall, although I did overlap seams end to end. I have read Big and many others on here say it is not necessary and doesn't make a difference since it's outside of the soundproof shell anyway. Since I knew I wasn't going to caulk them, I cut the pieces with very tight tolerances, so none of my gaps are over 1/8". I doubt it saved me any time in the end, as the test fitting, trimming, and refitting to such close tolerances was a bit time consuming. I did save quite a bit on the expensive acoustic caulk though.

Regarding the ducts, I only replaced the last 5-10' or so of round metal ducts above the theater shell with flex ducts, but not the entire run. Enough to decouple and help absorb any reverbs before they reach the vents. I tried to replace the entire runs with flex at first, but it dropped output at the vents a noticeable amount. I ended up going back and replacing most of the flex in the middle of the runs with metal. I'll be covering any remaining metal duct work over the theater with butyl (aka dynamat) before I insulate and drywall.
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post #54 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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[QUOTE=htpc-geek;58820958]I don't think you could just push drywall into the nails, but maybe? I had a few nails here and there and just took them out with my angle grinder, but that was only a dozen or so. A whole hardwood floor would be a little demoralizing.

I was afraid of this. Not really wanting to suit up to grind off 100's of flooring nails. I may just not do it and live with it. Insulation, clips, channel with DD and GG should be good enough for me. It's not that bad.

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post #55 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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I'd rather have dug out a pit toilet by hand.
Yeah I spit up my drink on that one too lol

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post #56 of 148 Old 11-14-2019, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm... maybe I won’t continue w the caulking around the drywall in the joist bays. Some of the gaps are about 3/4” though. My dad was using backer rod in cracks then caulking on top.

I’m wondering it would be helpful to install blocking within the joist bays between the theater and the adjoining guest room? The wall between is load bearing and the joists overlap on the wall - meaning the joist bays extend the width of the house.

On another note, our HVAC guy came by today and we discussed a plan for the theater. Given its location in the basement, he felt that I should be fine with the following:

A low cfm exhaust fan located in the ceiling above the media cabinet that vents to the exterior
Baseboard heater(s)
An adjustable iris passive air port that will allow fresh air into the theater (pulled in by the exhaust fan).

This plan will vent my media closet as well as pull fresh air into the room. Win win. We talked about a mini split, but I don’t think it will be necessary (don’t need the cooling in the basement).


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post #57 of 148 Old 11-16-2019, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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So... screen selection time.

I am sitting about 11’ from the screen (assumed time be ~8” off the back wall).

My projector is an Optoma UHD65 positioned on the ceiling at the back of the room about 16’ back. 2200 lumens max.

Completely light controlled room.

I have been talking to SeymourAV and Elunevision about AT screens.

I’m trying to figure out screen gain and how far I should go to try and improve blacks.

My current screen (Elunevision Reference 4K 92”) is beautiful. But I’m concerned about the larger screen and acoustic transparency which will adversely affect the brightness.

Any thoughts for me on screen selection? I don’t want to make a mistake here. $3k expense that I don’t want to have to make again anytime soon!


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Optoma UHD65, Yamaha RX-A2070, 1 Totem Tribe II, 2 x Totem Tribe II, 2 x Totem Tribe I, 2 x SVS PB2000, 2 x SVS Prime Elevations
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post #58 of 148 Old 11-16-2019, 09:59 AM
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Personally I would go with a spandex screen which costs about $150-200 all in.. Much easier pill to swallow if you don't like the size or need to make some changes..

The downside to all these AT screens is they are around .7 to .8 gain, but with a fully blacked out room it should be ok (I know mine is plenty bright and with the room blacked out the contrast is amazing)..

You could always move the PJ closer as long as it can zoom out to the size screen that you want to go with.
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post #59 of 148 Old 11-18-2019, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone have strong feelings regarding using on-ceiling vs in-ceiling mounted speakers for ATMOS? I was planning to use 4 SVS Prime Elevation speakers directed to the MLP.

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation

I was speaking with a HT designer the other day and he was trying to convince me that in-ceiling was better...

I can't see how in-ceiling would be better (should all be based on quality of the speaker and placement IMHO). Curious for some feedback/thoughts!

Optoma UHD65, Yamaha RX-A2070, 1 Totem Tribe II, 2 x Totem Tribe II, 2 x Totem Tribe I, 2 x SVS PB2000, 2 x SVS Prime Elevations
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post #60 of 148 Old 11-18-2019, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twelton43 View Post
Anyone have strong feelings regarding using on-ceiling vs in-ceiling mounted speakers for ATMOS? I was planning to use 4 SVS Prime Elevation speakers directed to the MLP.

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation

I was speaking with a HT designer the other day and he was trying to convince me that in-ceiling was better...

I can't see how in-ceiling would be better (should all be based on quality of the speaker and placement IMHO). Curious for some feedback/thoughts!
You could always use yours for now and if they do not work (no reason they shouldn't) you can upgrade to in ceiling units. Just build the backer boxes and have them pre-wired (same wire that will go through ceiling for your SVS speakers) so they are there if/when you need them..

Or just use what you have and worry about a current non existent issue in the future..

Last edited by PreciseD; 11-18-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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