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post #1 of 20 Old 10-15-2019, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Updating Dedicated Home Theater

So i have a 252 inch by 168 inch dedicated Home theater room. The setup is unusual as the screen has been built behind a border of wall so the actual screen is wider than what you can actually see, which is 110 inches wide. It is a perforated screen that has these hooks attached to a steel frame. I have no clue what brand it is. I have a this weird corner design on each side of the screen - like 4 corners back to back. I have zero access to the rear of the screen without taking the screen down. I have to guess there is about 2-4 feet behind the screen. Unknown speakers behind the screen either 2 or 3, most likely Polk Audio as the other speakers are that brand. There are 3 levels of floors. One is immediately in front of the screen and the the other 2 rows are elevated where the reclining chairs are. There are 2 speakers in middle on either side which are like a triangle shape and can produce sound on the 2 sides facing away from the wall. Two speakers located in the rear as well as a Klitsch Subwoofer in the rear. There is a Sanyo projector from a rear window. I have a Onkyo Dolby digital AV receiver.

My goals are to upgrade the system as to modernize it. I want to upgrade the screen, upgrade the projector and AV receiver, upgrade the speakers in the front for sure and probably add 2 atmos speakers in the front. I dont want to tear down any walls like that corner thing thats there, which will eat up some of the budget. I am not a DIY so I need a professional help. I would primarily watch movies , but would like to watch sports and gaming as well when the kids get a bit older.

So far I was I was adviced by various vendors these recomendations

Option 1: Screen Innovations 126" AT screen ($$$)
keep the speakers, Sony projector either the 1080p or 4K (pending budget) and Integra AV receiver
Option 2: Dragonfly 120" Regular Screen (either ALR or matte white depending on what I want)
Either Golden Ear Speakers for the fronts, center and atmos speakers, Integra AV, Sony projector


My audiophile friend thinks I shouldnt do the AT screen because youre paying more for less. I am confused!
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-15-2019, 09:12 PM
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Stop listening to your friends, in a multi row theater it is important to elevate the center channel to the middle of an acoustically transparent screen so the dialog will be clear in all seating positions. Not crammed into a small space under the screen where it will be blocked from view in the back row. Look at SeymourAV screens less $$.

That screen looks like it is 4:3 aspect ratio and pretty limited for today's 16:9 (sports and cable) and 2.35:1 (Movie) content
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-15-2019, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasPasserDoc View Post
The setup is unusual as the screen has been built behind a border of wall so the actual screen is wider than what you can actually see, which is 110 inches wide.

I wonder if that border is movable and if it slides to the side to reveal a 16:9 screen. We refer to that in this forum as masking. Moving something in front of the screen to change aspect ratios.
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-15-2019, 09:24 PM
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Modern projectors should be mounted level to avoid the use of Keystone correction. I'm not sure what this installer was thinking about with this setup at a steep angle. probably wrong. In all likelihood it will need to be modified to be level, Those threaded struts will need to be exchanged for longer versions or the shelf design reconfigured. I'm guessing that projector needed to be mounted upside down to accommodate a fixed offset, If was probably designed to project up from a conference room table or hung upside down from the ceiling to hit the screen. Your next projector will need to either sit on a level shelf or be hung upside down from a ceiling mount. With a drop ceiling the easiest way to do a ceiling mount is with a down pole poking through the tiles, it would be anchored to blocking installed about the tiles.




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post #5 of 20 Old 10-16-2019, 09:54 AM
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First step is to figure out exactly what's behind the screen. There are good older speakers, and usually you spend the most money there (as far as audio is concerned). Then you'll need to decide on screen aspect ratio. Most movies are in a scope format - 2.35:1 (or there about), which can be expensive to implement with an anamorphic lens, or a lens shift projector. If budget is a concern, and you'll be 50/50 between movies and TV/Sports, I'd go 16:9. Scope screens are gorgeous for entirely movie rooms, but that's not how I use mine.

Once aspect ratio is determined, it's time to select the screen size (based on seating distance). There are a few different ways to come to that number (and usually focus on width, not diagonal). Then you need to select a projector that will fit your needs. You have a defined throw distance (from projector lens to the screen), so you'll need a PJ that works with that.

My suggestion would be to bring in professional help. Interview a few places, get proposals (even pay for some proposals), and go with who you think will do the best job and support it over time. Since you're not a DIY kind of guy, it's important to have good reliable support. How are you planning to control everything? That can be VERY expensive, complicated, and prone to error/issues.

Good luck. Please keep the thread updated.
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-17-2019, 02:44 PM
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Where are you located? It helps to determine what to recommend.

As Bigmouth and Craig in your screen thread mentioned, Seymour screens and Dreamscreen V6. Seymour's Enlightor and the V6 are the only AT screen material that comes close to a solid screen.

After that, the speakers could be re-used or you could update/upgrade depending on your budget.

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post #7 of 20 Old 10-18-2019, 08:31 AM
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According to the other post by the OP...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58700046

The front wall framing is not going to be changed, which means the width is limited to what the 4:3 screen currently occupies.

If that's a high quality 4:3 material, I would just frame it down to 16:9 and call it done. Maybe add a motorized masking system to the setup so it could hit various aspect ratios. But, absolutely nuts to buy a new screen or speaker unless something is of poor quality or broken. Other money to be spent on a decent projector (that isn't TILTED!!!) and 4K receiver and several Atmos speakers in the room.

Not sure of total budget, but the Seymour AV screen recommendation is one I made as well. I use them on some of my installations with great success.

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post #8 of 20 Old 10-18-2019, 10:17 AM
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If he does a False wall and an AT screen it could be in front of some or all of those decorator choice items in the front corners, yielding more width. It looks like he measured 12 ft to the front of the first row seats or about a 14 ft viewing distance. He could give some of that up.
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-18-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
If he does a False wall and an AT screen it could be in front of some or all of those decorator choice items in the front corners, yielding more width. It looks like he measured 12 ft to the front of the first row seats or about a 14 ft viewing distance. He could give some of that up.
From the other thread, it looks like his current screen is already an AT screen in front of speakers and a false wall. His other thread in the screens section talks about this. So, he really just needs to adjust the current false wall and get rid of those pieces in the corner to accommodate a wider screen setup and he can widen his speaker locations to get better left/right soundstage.

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post #10 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Where are you located? It helps to determine what to recommend.

As Bigmouth and Craig in your screen thread mentioned, Seymour screens and Dreamscreen V6. Seymour's Enlightor and the V6 are the only AT screen material that comes close to a solid screen.

After that, the speakers could be re-used or you could update/upgrade depending on your budget.
I live on Long Island, NY. My budget is max 10K for everything! I just took the screen down, as I posted in the screen sections and I discovered this. It says Technikote but Ive never heard of that before.

Seems like 3 JBL speakers with a JBL subwoofer builtin into a false wall as the other poster had eluded to. The picture is upside down for some reason.
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post #11 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Modern projectors should be mounted level to avoid the use of Keystone correction. I'm not sure what this installer was thinking about with this setup at a steep angle. probably wrong. In all likelihood it will need to be modified to be level, Those threaded struts will need to be exchanged for longer versions or the shelf design reconfigured. I'm guessing that projector needed to be mounted upside down to accommodate a fixed offset, If was probably designed to project up from a conference room table or hung upside down from the ceiling to hit the screen. Your next projector will need to either sit on a level shelf or be hung upside down from a ceiling mount. With a drop ceiling the easiest way to do a ceiling mount is with a down pole poking through the tiles, it would be anchored to blocking installed about the tiles.



The drop ceiling is only in the room behind the theater. The actual theater doesnt have a drop ceiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
I wonder if that border is movable and if it slides to the side to reveal a 16:9 screen. We refer to that in this forum as masking. Moving something in front of the screen to change aspect ratios.
No luck with this. The border is stationary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
According to the other post by the OP...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-sc...l#post58700046

The front wall framing is not going to be changed, which means the width is limited to what the 4:3 screen currently occupies.

If that's a high quality 4:3 material, I would just frame it down to 16:9 and call it done. Maybe add a motorized masking system to the setup so it could hit various aspect ratios. But, absolutely nuts to buy a new screen or speaker unless something is of poor quality or broken. Other money to be spent on a decent projector (that isn't TILTED!!!) and 4K receiver and several Atmos speakers in the room.

Not sure of total budget, but the Seymour AV screen recommendation is one I made as well. I use them on some of my installations with great success.
The speakers seem to be in decent shape. I get what everyone is saying to make the screen as wide as possible. But I have to remove those corners. Then i have worry about the flooring, the ceiling and the walls that are new have to be painted, carpeted and finished. Plus the whole framing and false wall has to be changed. Seems like a big budget eater!
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasPasserDoc View Post
I live on Long Island, NY. My budget is max 10K for everything! I just took the screen down, as I posted in the screen sections and I discovered this.

Seems like 3 JBL speakers with a JBL subwoofer builtin into a false wall as the other poster had eluded to.
First, it is good that we know your budget.

Second, I guess I would agree partially with AV in that you should just frame down what you have. I guess you could put a piece of black velvet across the bottom to cover the gap.

I disagree about keeping what you have. Screens have gotten quite a bit better. I have said this in the past. At Cedia '11, I walked up to Seymour's Enlightor screen with another member and we thought it was a solid regular screen. I told Chris that I was blown away with what he had done and considered it the only AT screen that I could live with. Fast forward 8 years and we have 3 AT screens that I think are the pinnacle of AT screens. Those are Seymour Enlightor and Dreamscreen V6. I personally have never been a fan of microperf, which might be what you have.



So, on the the video side you would need a new pj and screen. I think Dreamscreen V6 is a little less expensive than the Seymour. You could also afford to go with a JVC N7 or N5.

On the audio side, the speakers may still be adequate. You could ask in the speaker section if those speakers are still good. There are some JBL guys in there that should know. IIRC that is around the time that JBL started to implement Floyd Toole's research into their speaker designs. You could ask Floyd his opinion on the speakers. Be prepared for a wide range of price points to upgrade.

Deciding what percentage is more important will decide where you want to put your budget. If video is the most important, then just get a new receiver and go with the better JVC/screen. If audio, then maybe move down to an Epson/screen and get new speakers.

Call @mikegarrett or @CraigPeer for some suggestions and pricing options on the equipment. They were both commercial contractors, so should have some ideas on your layout.

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Last edited by Ericglo; 10-19-2019 at 09:33 AM.
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post #13 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasPasserDoc View Post

The speakers seem to be in decent shape. I get what everyone is saying to make the screen as wide as possible. But I have to remove those corners. Then i have worry about the flooring, the ceiling and the walls that are new have to be painted, carpeted and finished. Plus the whole framing and false wall has to be changed. Seems like a big budget eater!
It could depending on what is behind those corners. You could also take the corners out and cover the area with black velvet instead of finishing them.

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post #14 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=Ericglo;58704876]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GasPasserDoc View Post

The speakers seem to be in decent shape. I get what everyone is saying to make the screen as wide as possible. But I have to remove those corners. Then i have worry about the flooring, the ceiling and the walls that are new have to be painted, carpeted and finished. Plus the whole framing and false wall has to be changed. Seems like a big budget eater!
It could depending on what is behind those corners. You could also take the corners out and cover the area with black velvet instead of finishing them.[/QUOTE

How about the false wall. Can I keep it as is and just make the screen wider ??
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post #15 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 10:23 AM
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Can't tell from the pictures, need more detail. Frankly if this was my space I would remove EVERYTHING in the front of the room and start over. Maybe keep the speakers but all that space limiting wood work and screen wall should be redone.
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post #16 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 10:56 AM
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[quote=GasPasserDoc;58705038]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

It could depending on what is behind those corners. You could also take the corners out and cover the area with black velvet instead of finishing them.[/QUOTE

How about the false wall. Can I keep it as is and just make the screen wider ??
While I agree with Bigmouth about starting over, you probably could get away with taking the corners out, installing a new screen and covering the unfinished areas with black velvet. It really depends on what it looks like behind the corners. What are those corners made of?

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post #17 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to check when i get home what the material is.

On a side note, is the projector in a good location at the back of the room. My only gripe is that someone stands up the image is blocked . I wanted to ceiling mount the new PJ.
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You should be fine either way. The current location does mean you won't hear the projector. Most pjs these days aren't to loud, but your current location means you would never hear it.

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post #19 of 20 Old 10-19-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GasPasserDoc View Post
The speakers seem to be in decent shape. I get what everyone is saying to make the screen as wide as possible. But I have to remove those corners. Then i have worry about the flooring, the ceiling and the walls that are new have to be painted, carpeted and finished. Plus the whole framing and false wall has to be changed. Seems like a big budget eater!

You are making this way too complicated. Remove the existing screen and screen wall and erect a skeletal frame for a new screen wall in front of what you have. Fit it between the corners but just out more into the room. It will hide everything. Keep the carpet, the painting, your speakers. The materials will run less than $400. pictures are what I'm talking about.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-21-2019, 01:24 PM
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As long as people walk between the projector light path and the screen, you will get a shadow on the screen. This is the case no matter what in a room with 8 foot ceilings. You would have to move the projector to the ceiling and in front of the viewing position, which isn't possible with anything but short throw projectors. You do NOT want a short throw projector.

If shadows are your only concern, then this is a typical concern and problem, but not really something which can be fixed in your room and something that I would just recommend you live with.

I think @BIGmouthinDC is on point, but you need to decide what you want to do at the front of the room. There are many options to just bumping the wall out a bit more, to removing the corners completely and redoing things a bit at the front of the room. Long term, this is entirely up to you, but I think that most are in agreement that you really do need to go wider at the front of the room. This may mean bumping things out (perfectly acceptable) or reworking the wall.

Bumping out a false wall and keeping it somewhat removable is a great option as you can surround the wall with black paint or velvet for a nice clean look, but mount it using just a few screws without worry of it going anywhere. It depends, somewhat, on your spacing between the front wall and the seating positions.

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