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khaberst 12-02-2019 02:25 PM

Banister Theater Build Out
 
4 Attachment(s)
I currently have a "home theater" in an open space on my second floor with a banister overlooking the family room below. I'll be building a wall to enclose this room and placing the screen on this new wall, thus rotating the room 90*. A few questions I'm currently pondering are do I install In-Wall Speakers or use floor standing/wall mount. Do I increase the screen size (currently 110') due to the extended distance from screen to seating. Most importantly I need to know what considerations I need to make DURING construction. I won't be able to purchase everything at once so this will be a modular build and upgrading my equipment over time.

Current Setup:
Projector - BenQ HT2050
Screen - Silver Ticket STR-169110
Speakers - Fronts: Mirage OS3 Floor Speakers x2 ; Center: Mirage OS3 CC ; Rear: Nanosat Prestige ; Sub: Definitive Technology ProSub 1000
Receiver - Denon 3311CI

I'm wanting to make theater 4k so I'll need to replace the Projector and Receiver. I'll also want to add ceiling speakers for atmos and not opposed to adding side speakers to make it a 7.1.2 system. All of which I'll need to decide between in wall or not in wall soon.

Here are some dimensions and pictures of my space. In the picture with the banister, the new wall will be going up where the banister is and will be identical to the wall on the other side of the open space.

khaberst 12-03-2019 07:51 AM

Decided last night to stick with the Mirage LCR and Rears that I already have. They still sound incredible so no need to replace those, and I'm not sure I could get the same sound out of in wall speakers unless I spend 1500-2000 per. What I am interested in is adding in wall/ceiling for my side and highs. Does it matter what I go with for those since they don't drive that much audio? I'll also add another DefTech 1000 for a dual sub.

ALSO with my room length (189") my closest seating will be about 10 feet from the screen with my main seating about 14'. Should I go for a bigger screen (currently have 110"0. Would 135" be too big?

MississippiMan 12-03-2019 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaberst (Post 58907142)
Decided last night to stick with the Mirage LCR and Rears that I already have. They still sound incredible so no need to replace those, and I'm not sure I could get the same sound out of in wall speakers unless I spend 1500-2000 per. What I am interested in is adding in wall/ceiling for my side and highs. Does it matter what I go with for those since they don't drive that much audio? I'll also add another DefTech 1000 for a dual sub.


You bet it matters...because Side Surrounds do in fact present considerable content. And there are some terrific choices to choose from.....and you surely do NOT need to spend even remotely as much as you stated to get incredible performance from In-Walls/. You simply must "choose wisely".


Quote:

ALSO with my room length (189") my closest seating will be about 10 feet from the screen with my main seating about 14'. Should I go for a bigger screen (currently have 110"0. Would 135" be too big?

Not nearly so much if the bottom of the screen is set at an appropriate level (20" - 24") A 135" diagonal 2.39:1 would seem to be a best choice. (125" x 52") as that format will allow a proper mounting height for the Mirage Center. You could even consider a DIY 140" diagonal 2.39:1 (54"x129") The Front row would be an immersive experience, and at 14' distance, anything less than a "almost 11' wide" screen will seem understated....in the least.


The 2050 does have minimal Vertical Lens shift, and from a purist stance, having to manually adjust the Projector between TV/Movies is not so troublesome if doing so allows for optimal Format viewing, and the elimination of the Top * Bottom Format Bars.

MississippiMan 12-03-2019 11:41 AM

Here is a great choice of a 138" diag. 2.35:1 Silver Ticket in a Silver Material
Right Here!

khaberst 12-03-2019 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MississippiMan (Post 58908318)
You bet it matters...because Side Surrounds do in fact present considerable content. And there are some terrific choices to choose from.....and you surely do NOT need to spend even remotely as much as you stated to get incredible performance from In-Walls/. You simply must "choose wisely".





Not nearly so much if the bottom of the screen is set at an appropriate level (20" - 24") A 135" diagonal 2.39:1 would seem to be a best choice. (125" x 52") as that format will allow a proper mounting height for the Mirage Center. You could even consider a DIY 140" diagonal 2.39:1 (54"x129") The Front row would be an immersive experience, and at 14' distance, anything less than a "almost 11' wide" screen will seem understated....in the least.


The 2050 does have minimal Vertical Lens shift, and from a purist stance, having to manually adjust the Projector between TV/Movies is not so troublesome if doing so allows for optimal Format viewing, and the elimination of the Top * Bottom Format Bars.

Thanks for the info on the sides and highs. I just read the other day that they didn't have much sound pushed to them, but I've also never used any or had ATMOS content at my current setup.

For the screen, I've been debating going the 2.39:1 route since I'm about 60/40 Movies/TV. Not sure if that screen format would work well with as much TV watching (mainly epic shows like Game of Thrones, Band of Brothers, etc. and Sports) that I do on it. I'll also be upgrading my projector soon after the project so looking at an Epson and the newer BenQ 4ks that have more lens adjustment. I think the epson I've been researching has a motorized lens.

PS, Just saw your PM. I will be responding!

brazensol 12-04-2019 08:50 AM

I sit just over 10' from a 135" diagonal 2.40:1 screen and it seems just about perfect to me. At 14' you might be underwhelmed.

khaberst 12-04-2019 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brazensol (Post 58912526)
I sit just over 10' from a 135" diagonal 2.40:1 screen and it seems just about perfect to me. At 14' you might be underwhelmed.

I think my problem will be with center speaker placement if I go too large. I may have to ditch the mirage center channel and go with in wall and AT Screen.

MississippiMan 12-04-2019 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaberst (Post 58913060)
I think my problem will be with center speaker placement if I go too large. I may have to ditch the mirage center channel and go with in wall and AT Screen.


That was going to be a suggestion I would have made...but between your already liking the Mirages' and the expense/ loss of gain & potential visible artifacts, I deemed it a less than optimal suggestion.


The Epson 5050/6050 combined with a new, "opaque" lager sized 2.39:1 screen seems to be a combo of the best of all things to consider. Second to that would be the larger screen size in a AT screen (Spandex?) and a quality In-Wall such as a KEF.



A 5050 set at 15' Throw would deliver almost 30 fl onto a 0.7 gain Spandex Screen. If you went with a 0.9-1.0 gain AT screen you'd manage almost 10 more fl, BUT...because you'd be so engaged in the screen (close in) you would possibly (if not indeed probably) be able to see the Screen's weave or perforated surface in brighter content.


Absolutely NO chance of that with Spandex.


So either keep the Center you know and make a big 2.39:1 screen......or make a big 2.39:1 screen and put a excellent In-Wall Speaker behind it.

khaberst 12-05-2019 08:29 AM

I guess the first decision is going to be screen aspect ratio and if I want black bars on the side of my image or on top and bottom of my image. I do watch A LOT of sports (NFL/College Football and Basketball) in my theater so would always have black bars on the sides and I feel like I would be underwhelmed by the smaller size. Since I've never had a 2.39:1 screen I've become accustomed to the top and bottom bars on most movies so sticking with 16:9/1.77:1 wouldn't be a change for me. If I got 2.39 it also seems like a pain in the butt to be adjusting the zoom between different formats and re-positioning the lens, thus would limit my projects options in the <$3,000 category to pretty much epson since they have the powered memory lens's. Is that about right? Am I thinking about this all wrong?

Also MississippiMan props to your avatar. We named our son Korbin, that's how much my wife and I love that movie lol.

MississippiMan 12-06-2019 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaberst (Post 58917152)
I guess the first decision is going to be screen aspect ratio and if I want black bars on the side of my image or on top and bottom of my image. I do watch A LOT of sports (NFL/College Football and Basketball) in my theater so would always have black bars on the sides and I feel like I would be underwhelmed by the smaller size. Since I've never had a 2.39:1 screen I've become accustomed to the top and bottom bars on most movies so sticking with 16:9/1.77:1 wouldn't be a change for me. If I got 2.39 it also seems like a pain in the butt to be adjusting the zoom between different formats and re-positioning the lens, thus would limit my projects options in the <$3,000 category to pretty much epson since they have the powered memory lens's. Is that about right? Am I thinking about this all wrong?


Well...kinda sorta, then again...not at all.


The object of going Constant Image height is to allow for the ability to have a epic-ally wide 2.39:1 presentation by making the screen as wide as the peripheral vision will allow, therein also retaining as much Image Height as possible for 16:9 content. So...many simply take the height they want for 16:9 and then add the width needed to expand the screen parameter to 2.39:1. No height lost on Football & Basketball games, but when the Blockbuster is on.....wow.


Also, there are these two important points to consider.
  • The Horizontal Format Bars on 2.39:1 show a larger percentage of unused Screen real estate than do Vertical Bars seen with 16:9 within a 2.39:1 field.
  • It is extremely easy to mask Vertical Bars using Panels or Curtains. It is far, far more difficult to mask Top / Bottom Horizontal Bars...**
**As an addendum to the last Bullet, if the Projector has Motorized Zoom / Lens Shift and Lens Memory, a "large as possible 16:9 image can be used, and when 2.39:1 is shown, the image shifts downward so that the area left unused at the top can be masked by simple Pull Curtains.


I done both repeatedly, both dependent upon the preference of the Customer, as well as the choice of Projector and available Throw.


HOWEVER.......there is another choice. If possible, painting the entire wall with a high performance Contrast Enhancing Grey Screen Paint can allow for the best of both worlds.

  1. When 16:9 is desired, it is zoomed to be as big (tall) as the occasion demands.
  2. When 2.39:1 content is shown, it too can be made to be as wide as possible
I call that a *NFSSW". Ergo: Non-Format Specific Screen Wall.And here is the best'est part....using the right Paint, you "do not notice any Image Format Bars". Yep that's right....and that being the case, no masking is required.


That application works so well to the advantage of the viewer that over the last 3 years, every single Painted Screen application I have installed (...and there have been many...) for someone has been a Screen Wall (...in both Theaters and Family Rooms...) the appeal of having infinite (almost) flexibility in choosing image size is the veritable Icing on the Big Picture Cake. Add to that the sheer mystique having a Wall look as good as or better than a multi-$1000 Mfg Screen and there is no better entertainment value nor anything that will impress others more.




Quote:

Also MississippiMan props to your avatar. We named our son Korbin, that's how much my wife and I love that movie lol.
Yeah....I've seen that Movie at least 500+ times. No foolin'. It's a staple when I demo my systems at Home Shows...(somebody come get me...I'm in the Front row!!! ) and an excellent one to use when calibrating a system with actual content.



BTW...our Cat is named "LeeLoo".:p

khaberst 12-09-2019 03:35 PM

Seriously considered the paint idea, but wife has nixed that. She wants a manufactured screen, which I'm fine with. Less work for me.

I'm seeing 2.39:1 and 2.35:1 used to what seem interchangeably. My current 16:9 screen is a Silver Ticket and I've loved it, but they sell a 2.35:1, not 2.39:1. Is it all the same?

BIGmouthinDC 12-09-2019 04:48 PM

yes, about the same


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