The Meta Theater 2.0 - Atmos 11.1 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 65 Old 12-26-2019, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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The Meta Theater 2.0 - Atmos 7.2.4

Hey Guys,

The time is finally here to build my theater and HiFi room. I purchased a house 2 1/2 years ago with the perfect bones for the project but the condition was I had to remodel the entire first floor first. That was 5500 sq feet of hell. Now that I've recovered emotionally and financially the wife says knock yourself out. The 2nd floor of our home is a dedicated game room and theater over the garage with 2 exterior brick walls. I'm on an acre and a half so no neighbors are close. Plan is to build the theater and a dedicated AV closet first then tackle the HiFi / game room. Once finished I'll have the ultimate retreat complete with an 11.1 (to start) Atmos reference cinema, some arcade games, card area, HiFi setup, wet bar, and sport viewing/gaming area with a few OLED's. Theater budget is $100k. (Edit. 2/4 - whoops already over that. :/ ) Construction begins 1/3.

I've spent the past few months planning the build and have tapped all the relevant professionals for the work. I plan to so some but as little of the work as possible with a target completion of April 2020. (Ambitious I know but I've been without a theater for almost 3 years)

A few before pics..










The theater is 25' x 13.5' and the AV closet is 6' x 8'. My goal is to make it modular so I can upgrade and play with different speakers, amps, and processors over time. This was one of the reasons I just couldn't put the surrounds in the wall behind the fabric not to mention I'm just not sold on in wall's anyway. Build highlights are:

1. AV closet with 2 20a dedicated circuits for the AV rack. Network rack will be on another. AC return and supply in the closet with a damper system to close the vents when the heat is on. Floor will be clean looking vinyl. The door leading into the closet will be a 36" x 80" Murphy bookcase to hold my DVD's. The rack will be in the center of the wall and have an LED backlit poster case to each side. The AV rack will be a middle atlantic 4026 which should be arriving any day.

2. Theater entrance will be framed down to a single solid 36" x 80" door leaving headroom for lit marquee sign.

3. All lighting zones will be lutron caseta which will include: 1. A 4' x 16' Star Ceiling with blue LED tape around the perimeter 2. LED border around the screen. 3. LED backlighting behind the screen to illuminate the speakers 4. Red LED tape on channels with a diffuser lens hidden vertically on the columns. 5. Blue LED border around soffit 6. Riser step lights 7. 3" Gimbal cans over stage and screen 8. 4" cans in soffit

4. Room will be black stained oak and Guilford of maine medium gray fabric stretched over track and OC703 insulation.

5. Soffit will be a black stained oak base with an LED channel built in and enclosed by friction fit black GOM wrapped panels for future access making it easy to run future wires and upgrade. Plan is to friction fit anyway. If I develop any vibration i'll affix them another way but I've seen this done and if the tolerance is tight it works. 4" black lotus LED can lights.

6. Room will have 6 columns for architectural flavor and to mount the 4 surrounds on. They will be 16" w x 4" deep.

7. There will be a basic 48" deep stage that will float and be about 1/4" off the wall.

8. Projector will be a JVC NX7 resting in a projector box built into the soffit. Screen will be a Seymour AT F130 2.35. 130" Wide.

9. Speakers to start will be Klipsch because it's the devil I know. I think the future is Revel. LCR will be RP-8000F, Surrounds will be RP-502S, Ceilings will be CDT 5800-C ii, and the sub will be an SVS sealed 16 ultra.

10. The rack will have a Mcintosh MX170 processor, Mcintosh MC257 for the mains and surrounds, and a Mcintosh MI254 4 channel for the overheads. The blue ray seems to the UB9000 unless a better one comes out between now and the time i'm done.

If there is one thing I learned from build 1.0, it's HANG THE PROJECTOR LAST and finish your rack.

Wish me luck! I can't wait to get started!
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post #2 of 65 Old 12-27-2019, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'll be putting the NX7 in a box in the soffit. Cooling is number one priority so I'm thinking that I'll cut a 12" passive vent in the back left corner which will pull cool air from the soffit. Then put an AC infinity 12" cabinet fan in the top right of the box which in theory would pull air across the JVC's intake. I think I read that the projector will pull about 100 CFM in high lamp mode. You think this approach is sound?

Speaking of sound I'm working through how I will treat the room. If you look above at my renderings you will see I'll have a fair amount of wood in the form of 6" base, 6" chair, 2" vertical trim, and the soffit base. All will be black stained oak. So those surfaces are reflective right? My general thought was to treat the room as follows:

1. 2" Linacoustic behind screen wall. Back wall, bottom of soffit, and L and R walls. Stage to ceiling corner base traps.
2. Use OC703 1" in fabric track covered by GOM on the 3 theater walls in between the wood.
3. line the soffit backs with 1" linacoustic as the soffit will be an open design where it will be enclosed with GOM wrapped panels to allow for easy access.
4. 48" bass traps in back corners
5. Door will be treated with a panel leaving a 4" border all around
6. projector box lined with 1" linacoustic

There is always talk about making a room too dead. I don't see how this would do that with all the wood so what are your thoughts? Is 1" enough for the walls? Should I mix the backing material for the walls? Should I make them 2"?

Input please.

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post #3 of 65 Old 12-28-2019, 09:34 AM
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Not sure if it’s just me but all of the images in the first post are broken images.
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post #4 of 65 Old 12-28-2019, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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My pile is growing...

Can lights arrived today. Going to use the Lotus variety. The build quality is excellent and these are ideal for low clearance applications should you need that. Going with 3000k all around. The 3" gimbal will be for the screen and 4" in the soffit. Also received the Lutron Caseta PD-10NXD. These are the pro ones and can handle any application you can throw at them. Also got my step lights in. These are going to look so good. Also, PLEASE chime in on my acoustic plan. What are everyones thoughts? I've also decided on a 4" AC infinity inline duct fan to supply cool air to the projector box since the JVC intake is in the back and the outlet is in the front. Also I'm going to make the box wider than I originally planned. Likely 32".













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post #5 of 65 Old 12-28-2019, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstrimel View Post
If you look above at my renderings you will see I'll have a fair amount of wood in the form of 6" base, 6" chair, 2" vertical trim, and the soffit base. All will be black stained oak. So those surfaces are reflective right? My general thought was to treat the room as follows:

Is 1" enough for the walls? Should I mix the backing material for the walls? Should I make them 2"?

Input please.
Can't see the renderings.

2" is the new 1" yes go 2, put your 1 inch track on 1 1/8 thick furring. to handle the two inch panels without revealing edges.
even with the baseboard and chair rail, 100 % absorption at the first reflection points will collapse the sound stage and you will lose the sense of spaciousness and envelopment, use combination diffusion and absorption in those locations. Modify your panels with alternating vertical strips of 3" FSK foil tape.
Adding scrim to the surface of the panels in the rear corners, 3-4 ft in on both sides will significantly improve the surround in your surround sound. Just glue heavy brown paper to the surface of your absorption panels. Use 3M 77 spray for both the self adhesive tape and the paper.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Trimaco-...-203613783-_-N
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post #6 of 65 Old 12-29-2019, 03:38 PM
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Those step lights look great!

My Theater Build - Full Circle Cinema

Left over Supplies for Sale - For Sale
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post #7 of 65 Old 12-30-2019, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstrimel View Post
So I'll be putting the NX7 in a box in the soffit. Cooling is number one priority so I'm thinking that I'll cut a 12" passive vent in the back left corner which will pull cool air from the soffit. Then put an AC infinity 12" cabinet fan in the top right of the box which in theory would pull air across the JVC's intake. I think I read that the projector will pull about 100 CFM in high lamp mode. You think this approach is sound?
The JVC NX5/7/9 projectors pull air in from the back and exhaust out the front vents. I'm having trouble picturing your description of how a passive vent in the back corner will pull cool air from the soffit. Is the vent simply in the bottom of the soffit behind where the projector would be to allow air in from the back?
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post #8 of 65 Old 12-31-2019, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlemoine2 View Post
The JVC NX5/7/9 projectors pull air in from the back and exhaust out the front vents. I'm having trouble picturing your description of how a passive vent in the back corner will pull cool air from the soffit. Is the vent simply in the bottom of the soffit behind where the projector would be to allow air in from the back?
I have an open soffit design so the bottom will be wood and the sides will be FR701 wrapped panels. My original thought was to put a vent in the bottom left so the projector could pull air but i have decided to put a 12" AC Infinity cabinet fan switched to intake to pull air into the box.

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post #9 of 65 Old 01-02-2020, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Look what just showed up. My Middle Atlantic 4026! We have a pre project meeting with the contractors today at 1p and will be officially starting on Monday! This go round is going to be nice using construction pros so my HOPE is the project moves pretty fast.



I had an interesting idea for my columns. I'm going to have 6 and have decided to recess an LED channel vertically and put a 6.5' Red dimmable strip in each tied to a Caseta dimmer. The tracks will be black and covered with a diffusion lens. I think this is going to look killer!



Here are a few pics of my overall design with the FR701 Medium gray wall fabric. All the black will be stained oak. 6" base, 6" chair 30" off the floor in the back and continued forward, then 2" vertical oak from base to soffit bottom. Sorry for the crappy pics in excel.



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post #10 of 65 Old 01-02-2020, 09:46 AM
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This looks like a SERIOUS setup! Will look forward to seeing the progress
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post #11 of 65 Old 01-04-2020, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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A few more goodies arrived today. Linacoustic for my stage area, bottom of soffit behind screen wall, wall sides behind screen wall and the walls in the soffit and PJ box. Also the Roxul 960 for stuffing the columns. The AC infinity 12" fan switched to intake for the back of the PJ box as well. Man they are built so well. Excellent product! Construction begins Monday!!







Also - I've been in the rabbit hole for a week regarding Processor and Amps. This I have changed my mind on 11 times and have finally made a decision with the help of Larry at Overture AV in Delaware. Great folks there and would not hesitate to reach out regarding Home Theater or Hifi hardware. They play in all the high end brands. I was initially looking at the NAD M17 and M27 amps but after exhaustive research I'm upping the ante. I've decided to go with the Mcintosh MX170 and Mcintosh amps. This blows the budget out of the water but hey, you only live once!
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post #12 of 65 Old 01-04-2020, 07:26 PM
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Did you consider the Monolith HTP-1?
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post #13 of 65 Old 01-05-2020, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you consider the Monolith HTP-1?
Yes, really looked at everything in the $4-7k range as that was my target. My search began by reviewing the HTP-1, M17, AVM860, AV8805, RMC-1, and AV60. All of which are good in their own right but all of which have their known issues. The HTP-1 is just so new that it's going to take a year at least to work out many of the bugs. The AV8805 uses Audyssey which I decided I wanted a more advanced room correction such as Dirac or ultimately Room Perfect. The AV60 to me represented the best value for a 4k processor ($3k) but is an aging platform soon to be replaced. As of now it's only HDMI 2.0a with no way to upgrade and is only an 11 channel processor. Through all this I decided I wanted to be sure to have 16 channels to future proof so I could add 2 front wides and additional subs. Once I made this decision it forced me to look at the next tier of processors. The Datasat, Trinnov, Lyngdorf, Acurus, Storm, Mcintosh and Bryston. This was an entirely different rabbit hole as the price range went from $4-7k to $9-$16k which is an insane jump I know but begged the question, What do I get for my money? After listening to Audyssey XT32, Dirac, Room Perfect, and Trinnov's correction it was clear to ME (such a subjective thing and one to be debated for the ages) that the Trinnov and Room Perfect were the most advanced. Side by side comparisons of the Datasat LS10 (dirac), Trinnov Altitude 16 (proprietary), and Lyngdorf MP-50 (Room Perfect) were made in an open game room with poor acoustics and then again in a treated theater. No question that you could tell a difference between Dirac and the others. By the way they are all awesome and I'm not any kind of expert I'm just going with what felt great to me and my ears. After deciding I was going Trinnov or Room Perfect which was Lyngdorf or Mcintosh it came down to good ole value and a small little known about feature. Price wise the Trinnov is the most expensive and personally I could not justify the additional expense. The other 2 were priced similarly and both are updated platforms. Lyngdorf's new MP-60 has HDBaseT support and that excited me a bit because I plan to use my processor to run my theater projector and my 77" OLED in the adjoining game room. Many of the features such as Dolby Vision (Which no projector supports but OLED's do) I can take advantage of as icing on the cake next to having a great processor and room correction for my theater. HDBaseT is an amazing but way young tech that I also plan to play with as next gen OLED's will support this feature. I know you asked "Did I consider the HTP-1" and I could have just said yes but I did learn alot over these past few weeks and just thought I would share with those of you building a new theater like I am but are faced with a similar conundrum. Lyngdorf MP-60 for me it is.

Edit - Went with the Mcintosh MX170 instead of the Lyngdorf. Same room correction but the Mac is just prettier and will match my amps.
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post #14 of 65 Old 01-05-2020, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Designed and ordered the seating on Friday. Going with custom Valencia Tuscany seats. They will be black suede with a black nappa leather quilted insert.

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post #15 of 65 Old 01-05-2020, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstrimel View Post
I know you asked "Did I consider the HTP-1" and I could have just said yes but I did learn alot over these past few weeks and just thought I would share with those of you building a new theater like I am but are faced with a similar conundrum. Lyngdorf MP-60 for me it is.

Thank you for the detailed answer! I really appreciate hearing your thought process as indeed I'm faced with a similar decision.

Based on what you said I think it really comes down to your positive (and yes subjective) experience hearing the different forms of room correction. After all, by the time you're finished with your theater I would expect most of the HTP-1 issues to be worked out (and early reports in the HTP-1 thread are quite positive), and as for HDBaseT it can always be added outside the processor for quite a bit less than the price difference between processor tiers.

I'm currently running an NAD receiver at the moment almost entirely because of Dirac so I understand room correction being an overriding factor (and which is why the HTP-1 is currently at the top of my list). It sounds like you're making a good decision and should mostly eliminate the "what if" factor - which can't be overvalued, not the least of which for keeping us from obsessively reading this forum
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post #16 of 65 Old 01-07-2020, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Day 1 Demo is in the books! Got the old columns removed, bar, carpet, trim, and double doors. Man there is alot of dust in 10 year old carpet! Today Home Depot will be dropping material and hope to start framing!

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post #17 of 65 Old 01-07-2020, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Day 2 -

Started framing the rack closet and got the double doors framed down to the single 36" x 80" and sheet rocked around it. Electricians begin tomorrow. Should have some good updates over the next few days. Framing will be done tomorrow as well. Should get some sheet rock up over the next few days saving the area where the HVAC crew needs to cut for moving the supply vents in the rear of the room forward and adding the return. The rack closet will get a supply, return, and thermostat as well as a damper system to close off the supply when heat is running. HVAC begins on Friday. My home office has filled with lots of goodies. The FR701 fabric for the walls arrived today. Hope the fabric track isn't far behind.

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post #18 of 65 Old 01-08-2020, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Day 3 in the books. Good progress today. Finished framing the closet and mudded the outside. Tomorrow will finish sheet rocking the inside of the closet, install the 6" cans, and wire up the 2 dedicated 20A boxes for the rack. Got all the floor outlets and step lights wired as well as runs to the columns for the base outlets. I was going to have 9 switches on the wall in the theater for lighting so I decided since we are using Caseta i'm only going to put 3 in the theater (3" and 4" cans and step lights) and the other 6 on the rack closet wall. Sub floor and sheet rock on the theater begin tomorrow as well. Moving Along!



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post #19 of 65 Old 01-11-2020, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Days 4 and 5.

Well after week 1 I would say that I'm pretty happy with where we are. The last 2 days haven't been very sexy from what you see but lots has happened. The electricians managed to get all the switches wired as well as my dimmer bank in the attic for all of the LED lighting. The rack condo has really taken shape as they have finished the sub floor, wiring for the 2 dedicated circuits, poster boxes, the HVAC supply, 6" cans, the return fan vented to the outside on it's own thermostat and installed an electric damper system to never allow heat from the supply vent.











The framing guys managed to insulate with rockxul and enclose the old AV cubby that will be sheet rocked over next week as well as patch where the old columns were and float the closet corner out which proved to be a real pain as it's bull nosed and for whatever reason just wanted to be difficult.



The theater also got it's dedicated HVAC return and the 2 supply vents moved forward so they will clear the soffit and be just in front of the star ceiling. I thought it was interesting to have the supply and returns in line as it seems counter intuitive but they assure me it's what I want for a room of this dimension. These of course will be painted black along with my sprinkler head covers to blend in.



Next week we move on to 5/8 sheet rock and sub floor which I'm hoping can be finished in 3 days and we can at least begin the soffit fur downs by Friday. The fabric track says it will be delivered on Monday then I will have all the materials for the walls except the insulation which I'll pick up here locally. May try to to get the stage built by weeks end also. After much consideration I've also decided to plug my amps directly into the wall. Having a whole house surge installed. This topic was of much debate but the Mac engineers say to do it and after looking at the cost of a good surge/conditioner it was actually cheaper to install whole home units and I get the benefit of protecting all the other components in my house. Seems like a good idea...

Today I'm heading over to Magnolia to see the new Mcintosh MC257 amp and discuss all the electronics for the build. Looks like they want to make me a good deal so perhaps today I'll check that box off.
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post #20 of 65 Old 01-16-2020, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally got this room sheet rocked with 2 layers of 5/8". I have to say that putting this stuff on the ceiling is no small task. Today and tomorrow will be taping and sub floor with the pie in the sky being getting the stage done by end of day tomorrow as well. Likely will be Monday but it's a goal. Really happy with the progress we are making. Should get onto trim and soffit construction next week. Last Saturday I ordered all the electronics and they are starting to come in. One step closer! It should really start to take shape in the coming days.





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post #21 of 65 Old 01-17-2020, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Great finish to the week. Got the sub floor down. This room is solid as a tank! Ordered all the oak for the trim today and should deliver Tuesday. Over 600 linear feet of 1x4 and 1x6 for the trim and 12 4x8 grade 1 oak plys for the soffit bottom and columns. Can't wait to see the soffit and columns take shape next week. Stage will be done Monday as we just ran out of time today. Have a great weekend all!

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post #22 of 65 Old 01-17-2020, 08:58 PM
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Coming together nicely!

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post #23 of 65 Old 01-18-2020, 12:01 AM
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The Meta Theater 2.0 - Atmos 11.1

Good progress. Just a remark about that led strip profile that you are considering. Will it directly face people? I’ve got the same one in my kitchen and living room and I’m glad it’s indirect. Here’s a picture of the strip when you look directly at it (on the ceiling of a cabinet). Even though it’s dimmed about 50% you can still very much see where the individual leds are:



This is with the diffusion lens. Maybe other brands diffuse a bit more, but you may want to try this before you use this profile.

This is the same type when used indirectly, near my floor (it is placed behind a layer of gypsum facing down on the floor):



So the diffusion works really well, just not when looking directly at it.

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post #24 of 65 Old 01-18-2020, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkinneb View Post
Coming together nicely!
Thanks! I've been following your build as well. You are quite the craftsman! It's looking awesome!
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post #25 of 65 Old 01-18-2020, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Good progress. Just a remark about that led strip profile that you are considering. Will it directly face people? I’ve got the same one in my kitchen and living room and I’m glad it’s indirect. Here’s a picture of the strip when you look directly at it (on the ceiling of a cabinet). Even though it’s dimmed about 50% you can still very much see where the individual leds are:



This is with the diffusion lens. Maybe other brands diffuse a bit more, but you may want to try this before you use this profile.

This is the same type when used indirectly, near my floor (it is placed behind a layer of gypsum facing down on the floor):



So the diffusion works really well, just not when looking directly at it.
Thanks for the input! My plan with these is to have the 4 strips on the 4 side columns facing forward and the 2 in the back facing their respective corners. My columns will be 4" wide and the wall will be 1" thick leaving 3 inches to play with then I'll put the strip in the middle. I ordered what they call an opaque lens which diffuses a bit more than the frosted and LOOKS like it will not show the outline of the LED but rather a complete diffusion. With this when folks are sitting in the back 2 rows should not really see the strip at all. Folks in the very front row may so I'll be aware. I've kind of gone silly with the lighting zones in this room but figured that will give me lots of options to create cool lighting scenes when the theater is not in use and the door is open to the game room while we are hanging out.
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post #26 of 65 Old 01-20-2020, 08:00 AM
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May or may not help you and you might not even be looking at such - but I'll mention it in case you or anyone else is looking for material that will keep the led's from being seen. I recently built a lighted mirror for my girlfriend - the type with the border of led's around the mirror, and I got white acrylic from Piedmont Plastics. They are a phenomenal company and really helped me. I have a local store and they would only sell me a 4'x8' sheet, but they were happy to use their CNC machine to cut it for me. The brand I got is called OPTIX and you can't see the led's through it at all unless they are pressed directly to the material. Piedmont literally has thousands of options from colored to clear and in a dozen thicknesses. The one I got was 1/8" thick. Really high quality stuff.
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Roll Tide.
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post #27 of 65 Old 01-21-2020, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Stage finished yesterday. Built out of 2 x 12 with 16" centers then filled with R30. Floated it on 2 layers of roofing felt and off the walls 1/4". Measuring for carpet today and soffit construction begins. All of the oak for the project should be in later this afternoon.



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post #28 of 65 Old 01-21-2020, 09:47 AM
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Looks Nice!!
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post #29 of 65 Old 01-22-2020, 05:17 AM - Thread Starter
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it sure is fun laying out a soffit when not one wall is plumb and not one corner is straight!

Took half the day to get it right, snap some lines, and get the bottom 2x4 for the L brackets hung. Measured 64 times and cut once. Should have some nice progress pics after today. Thank you "Daydream Theater" for excellent inspiration! Electricians back today to install whole home surges and to do what they can ahead of the soffit completion.
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post #30 of 65 Old 01-22-2020, 08:34 AM
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it sure is fun laying out a soffit when not one wall is plumb and not one corner is straight!
I hear you! Fitting the fabric frames in my room was about the same, just the difference from the drywall mud in the corners made it much harder then I expected to get things right.

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