Gimmepilotwings build thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 42 Old 03-11-2020, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Gimmepilotwings build thread

I am in the planning stage of my theater build/basement finishing. The house is being built and I have roughly 4-8 weeks before I can move in and start work. I have a finite budget for the entire basement. I would like to save as much as I can towards the actual home theater portion. It is about 1200 sqft. It is completely unfinished. There is some insulation on the outside walls, I assume due to code in Colorado.

Some pictures include a plot plan that includes some dimensions, a floor plan that can be modified. None of the walls are built except for the utility closet. There are also some pics of the place and a video I can share if requested.

Requirements:

1. There must be one bedroom downstairs. I have planned this for the NW corner of the basement. This is not moving, but the size of it can.
2. There must be one bathroom as well. The plumbing is already in place, and I do not want to do move it due to the expenses involved.

Sound requirements:

I would like to soundproof the home theater as much as possible. Where I want to place the theater will have 3 concrete walls and an open area currently that is open to the rest of the basement. I have not determined the exact size of the home theater, but it will be placed in the SW corner of the basement. That corner is ideal in the fact that it has no windows, three sides that are concrete walls, and is located beneath a guest bedroom that will not be used very often. I would like to keep the sound from traveling upstairs as much as I can. It isn't a big concern if sound travels from outside of the home theater, and into the rest of the basement. With that said, I will be likely be installing clips, DD, GG across the entire ceiling to help with this.

Random Thoughts/Problems:

I will try to do some of the work myself to cut cost. (Some framing, insulation, running cables etc. while leaving things like HVAC, plumbing, and electrical connections to the experts)

The ceilings are 9' tall across the entire basement. However, there are metal I-joists placed in various places across the basement for load bearing about 12-14' below that 9 feet level. Trying to decide if I am going to lose that space and lower the ceilings to around 8' or if there is a way to work around it.


Questions:

I was going to ask a lot of these questions in the soundproofing thread, but I wanted to start my own theater thread first...

Do I need to do much soundproofing on the rest of the basement that will not be the home theater? Flanking is a concern. Only really worried about sound traveling upstairs. Do I need to use backer boxes across the entire basement, or only in the theater portion?

I haven't pulled up the insulation that is currently attached to the concrete walls to see if there is a gap in between, or if it is attached directly to the concrete. If it is attached, do I need to yank it out everywhere to leave a 1/2" gap? Should I only yank it out in the theater?

There is a sump pump in the SW corner of the basement where I would like to place the theater. Should I move the screen forward? How do I soundproof that? Do I even need to, since it is in the concrete slab and we should only hear sound from it if the basement floods?

There is also a set of pipes for a radon mitigation system. Should I insulate around it and build a soffit?

I will have a ton of questions about different equipment to purchase, where to place the AV gear, etc. but thought I would get started here.

Any kind of help that anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.
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Last edited by gimmepilotwings; 03-11-2020 at 10:46 PM.
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post #2 of 42 Old 03-11-2020, 02:47 PM
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my biggest concern with this space is if your are planning on erecting framed walls what is left for room width in the narrow section?
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post #3 of 42 Old 03-11-2020, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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my biggest concern with this space is if your are planning on erecting framed walls what is left for room width in the narrow section?
Thank you so much for your reply. I have read a lot of what you posted in the soundproofing thread.
(I'm about 90 pages in)

The narrow section as is, is 13' across. If the framing that is around the three concrete walls is away from the walls by an inch or two, then all I would need to do would be to install clips, channel, DD and GG taking up a few inches on either side leaving about 12', right? I know it isn't ideal and I wish that I had a few more feet to work with, but it is what it is. I will only be entertaining sporadically, and I won't need more than 5 or 6 seats total, so the width, while not ideal is doable.

Do you have any other suggestions?
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post #4 of 42 Old 03-11-2020, 04:38 PM
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Hi.....


This is what I'd call a Pocket Theater. Essentially a Niche that needs filling.


Such a confined area calls for a Screen Wall. It certainly doesn't call for an excessively built out Audio system. Judicious choices made to co-exist with a sensible Plan is what are needed going forward from this point.


Acoustic Insulation / Isolation....and how extreme it needs to be determines both method and cost. In a Room that will wind up being at best 12'-4" wide....and with 2 Rows of Seats that means having a depth in excess of 18', serious consideration must be given as to what can be and should be done....and what to avoid trying to do. Enclosing the space is of paramount need...otherwise you can forget about any serious attempt at both sound quality and acoustic considerations...the later involving both sound heard and sound transfer'ed.


I'll come back later this evening with Top View and Side elevation drawings that address the most important aspects, including Framing.

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post #5 of 42 Old 03-11-2020, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Hi.....


This is what I'd call a Pocket Theater. Essentially a Niche that needs filling.


Such a confined area calls for a Screen Wall. It certainly doesn't call for an excessively built out Audio system. Judicious choices made to co-exist with a sensible Plan is what are needed going forward from this point.


Acoustic Insulation / Isolation....and how extreme it needs to be determines both method and cost. In a Room that will wind up being at best 12'-4" wide....and with 2 Rows of Seats that means having a depth in excess of 18', serious consideration must be given as to what can be and should be done....and what to avoid trying to do. Enclosing the space is of paramount need...otherwise you can forget about any serious attempt at both sound quality and acoustic considerations...the later involving both sound heard and sound transfer'ed.


I'll come back later this evening with Top View and Side elevation drawings that address the most important aspects, including Framing.
Thanks. I appreciate why advice that you would want to give. I don't mind it being a pocket theater per se. Like I mentioned before, I'm not building it to entertain; I'm building it for me. I

I can definitely afford to add length to the room, in place of the width. That entire side of the house is unfinished and can be extended 20-25' if necessary or more.

I am a bang for the buck kind of guy.

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post #6 of 42 Old 03-13-2020, 01:17 PM
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What's the plumbing stubouts look like? I wonder if there's any wiggle room to play with the bathroom depth and orientation?
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post #7 of 42 Old 03-18-2020, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the plumbing stubouts look like? I wonder if there's any wiggle room to play with the bathroom depth and orientation?
Thank you for the reply. Life is pretty crazy right now.

I don't think there is a lot of room to play with the bathroom area. My biggest concern is the cost of ripping up the concrete and re-doing the plumbing. If it costs a few thousand dollars to do that, well that money could be used on speakers instead.

I have verified with the builder that the three walls in the proposed theater area are floating walls so it is already decoupled on 3 sides, which is great news for me. I will need to build a 4th wall, and the ceiling.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do the ceiling?

I hadn't considered putting the office deep in that corner. I figured since the walls were decoupled and being 6 inches thick on concrete, it would save money elsewhere. However, one thing that I didn't mention is that there would be one window on the outside wall that I didn't draw up that would have to be addressed. Yet another reason I was considering the space I was.
I will have to consider this and see how that would affect my budget.

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post #8 of 42 Old 03-18-2020, 12:05 PM
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Floating walls are not decoupled from the ceiling/floor joists and they will conduct vibration (sound) to the floor above. Due to the nature of how firmly they are attached they may be more efficient at transferring vibration than walls standing firmly on the concrete below. If you you want to isolate the walls/ceiling you will need to mount the drywall on a clip and channel system. Two layers of 5/8 with Green Glue dampening.

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post #9 of 42 Old 03-18-2020, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Floating walls are not decoupled from the ceiling/floor joists and they will conduct vibration (sound) to the floor above. Due to the nature of how firmly they are attached they may be more efficient at transferring vibration than walls standing firmly on the concrete below. If you you want to isolate the walls/ceiling you will need to mount the drywall on a clip and channel system. Two layers of 5/8 with Green Glue dampening.
Of course they aren't decoupled from the floor. They have to be attached to something right?

I definitely plan on doing the clip, DD, GG etc. at least in the room where the theater will be. I hoping to avoid that in the rest of the basement, but will do that at least on the ceiling if necessary.
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post #10 of 42 Old 03-18-2020, 04:19 PM
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floating walls for expansive soil issues are hung from the floor joists above and hover above the concrete, I can see them in your one picture. They present a real challenge in sound proofing the walls as the drywall usually can't extend to the floor leaving a big gap. A few guys have used a couple layers of MLV mass loaded vinyl to seal that gap and hope for the best. That one wall to the left of the pole in your picture appears unfinished no bottom plate and spikes and I can't make out if there are spikes in the other.
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post #11 of 42 Old 03-19-2020, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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floating walls for expansive soil issues are hung from the floor joists above and hover above the concrete, I can see them in your one picture. They present a real challenge in sound proofing the walls as the drywall usually can't extend to the floor leaving a big gap. A few guys have used a couple layers of MLV mass loaded vinyl to seal that gap and hope for the best. That one wall to the left of the pole in your picture appears unfinished no bottom plate and spikes and I can't make out if there are spikes in the other.
Interesting. Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know any builds that have floating walls for expansive soil issues?
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post #12 of 42 Old 03-19-2020, 09:49 PM
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Interesting. Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know any builds that have floating walls for expansive soil issues?
Look on the Colorado get together thread, I remember a build from one of the guys in fort collins that was doing floating floors, I'd ask around there if no one gives you a heads up.

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post #13 of 42 Old 05-13-2020, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the plumbing stubouts look like? I wonder if there's any wiggle room to play with the bathroom depth and orientation?
I am in the process of starting the build. I did end up taking Tedd's suggestion of changing the office and the theater room. The framing is going up now.

Doing so, unfortunately means that I have two doors out of the theater instead of one. This means that my screen wall will need to be where I currently have a window. Which leads to the question. How do I 'soundproof' the window for a lack of a better term?

Please note that the stud wall that I am building there is only hanging there temporarily. It is just held up by a few screws on each end at the moment. I had to frame the wall and temporarily hang it until the isolation clips arrive from the soundproofingcompany. Those should arrive today.

I will be putting in a curtain of some kind to cover the window, from there should I use drywall, plywood, insulation?
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Look on the Colorado get together thread, I remember a build from one of the guys in fort collins that was doing floating floors, I'd ask around there if no one gives you a heads up.

Aaron
There are a few, but most of the images are old. One of the threads had drywall all the way to the floor, and it failed code inspection. They then just added a larger/thicker baseboard and sealed it.

I am in the process of doing a whole basement up in Louisville. Just saying these floating walls suck.

D
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There are a few, but most of the images are old. One of the threads had drywall all the way to the floor, and it failed code inspection. They then just added a larger/thicker baseboard and sealed it.



I am in the process of doing a whole basement up in Louisville. Just saying these floating walls suck.



D


I’m in Niwot and thankfully my basement is a structural slab so I didn’t have to do floating walls. It seems like most houses in Colorado aren’t structural slabs :/


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post #16 of 42 Old 05-18-2020, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Any idea on what to do with the window? How should I treat it before the walls go up final?
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post #17 of 42 Old 05-18-2020, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some pictures of how the build is going thus far. The area that has the mini fridge will be a work from home office. I am still doing DD, GG, clip and channel there too.

I have issues that needed addressing including the Window, Sump Pump area, and PVC drain plumbing.
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post #18 of 42 Old 05-18-2020, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the layout that I ultimately decided.

The stairs opening is going to be turned into a wall and I will open the storage from under the stairs from the opposite side.
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post #19 of 42 Old 05-18-2020, 01:21 PM
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With regard to the window, we framed two of ours as though we were going to leave the windows visible/usable. Then we added two vertical 2x4s in each opening, installed Roxul between the studs, and rocked over the openings. When we sell the house don the road, the new owners could perform some careful demo, remove the two vertical 2x4s, add drywall/texture, install sills/trim, and have the windows back.


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post #20 of 42 Old 05-18-2020, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I purchased some commercial electric smart LED recessed lights for the rest of the basement, but they are 6". I was looking for some 4" ones to go into soffits and the like, but I can't find them.

I was wanting LED, smart connectivity, and color changing.


I have tried hunting but haven't been able to find any. What is everyone else doing for soffit lighting?
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This is what is typically recommended

4 in. White Dimmable Recessed Lighting Kit (10-Pack)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/203976637


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post #22 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 06:21 AM
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They use an MR16 GU10 bulb, Phillips hue makes one for that size.
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post #23 of 42 Old 05-19-2020, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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They use an MR16 GU10 bulb, Phillips hue makes one for that size.
Thanks for that. I may have to rethink my requirements. Those are $50 a bulb.
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There are a few, but most of the images are old...Just saying these floating walls suck.

D
Okay, here is what I remember; and probably what I'm going to do: They did the regular floating floors--with the treated board on the bottom and the huge nails and the floating frames, ending the drywall ~ 4" off of the floor

After inspection they attached a piece of MLV with liquid nail to the back of the lowest 2" of the drywall attached to the clips. Then they used liquid nailed and attached a 4" piece of DW/GG/DW to the lower 4" of MLV (it was not taped nor mudded- and the lower[inner theater DW/GG/DW/MLV outer theater pink fluffy] piece was slightly mobile)

The baseboard was then attached to the drywall that covered the seam between the two areas of drywall--The baseboard was added after the floor was put in.

I tried to draw something up below that was close, if you can't see it let me know.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmepilotwings View Post
I purchased some commercial electric smart LED recessed lights for the rest of the basement, but they are 6". I was looking for some 4" ones to go into soffits and the like, but I can't find them.

I was wanting LED, smart connectivity, and color changing.


I have tried hunting but haven't been able to find any. What is everyone else doing for soffit lighting?
My brother told me about Kichler lights that they used in their new house they built a little over a year ago and he said that they mount to a regular outlet box. Sounded kind of something I may look into using in my theater and the rest of my basement. You can make them dim as well I believe.

https://www.kichlerlightinglights.co...caAhabEALw_wcB

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post #26 of 42 Old 05-24-2020, 09:54 AM
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Okay, here is what I remember; and probably what I'm going to do: They did the regular floating floors--with the treated board on the bottom and the huge nails and the floating frames, ending the drywall ~ 4" off of the floor



After inspection they attached a piece of MLV with liquid nail to the back of the lowest 2" of the drywall attached to the clips. Then they used liquid nailed and attached a 4" piece of DW/GG/DW to the lower 4" of MLV (it was not taped nor mudded- and the lower[inner theater DW/GG/DW/MLV outer theater pink fluffy] piece was slightly mobile)



The baseboard was then attached to the drywall that covered the seam between the two areas of drywall--The baseboard was added after the floor was put in.



I tried to draw something up below that was close, if you can't see it let me know.



Aaron
So other than the building sheets for Louisville, CO Springs etc. Is there any Building Code that this follows? I cannot find anything that says I have to have the gap for drywall.

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post #27 of 42 Old 05-24-2020, 04:54 PM
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...Is there any Building Code that this follows...
I can't find one. Stories of inspectors coming around and saying that you need to have the drywall gap...likely the same thread you've seen...is all that I have heard.

Even in my town, the city states that I don't need to have floating walls in city limits. My basement is 115 years old and has not moved since 1986 for sure, given the in stud and in wall nail markings placed back then.

I might just have a 1/4" floating stud wall and drywall to the clips on the stud, given that I will dig down and add a cement floor that might settle--I don't want all of my drywall work to start settling. I will probably use MLV and baseboard to cover the 1/4" floating gap at the bottom. I will do this to try to help decouple the walls and to help with bass transfer up the walls, and I'll use the IB clips to decouple the walls and framed ceiling. The ceiling, I will be working on to avoid projector shaking from foot fall above and bass vibration below--still in the thinking stage.

I think "fire blocking" and "window escapes" are the big things inspectors are all over right now, and they are very picky. The rules about finishing a basement in my town have very little on everything other than--"follow national building codes" but then have 3 pages of diagrams on fire blocking and how to avoid the spread of fire.

If your city doesn't say you have to, I would just do a minimal gap on the bottom only because nothing ticks me off more than having to go back and redo drywall because of settling issues.

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post #28 of 42 Old 05-24-2020, 05:33 PM
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building codes are generally county/city specific, usually an adoption of other codes with local specific modifications Here are links to county/city codes that talk about floating requirements.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GidD2KfYwkKu33

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...FlIXOYoZUJuVLn

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 05-25-2020 at 07:28 AM.
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post #29 of 42 Old 05-25-2020, 07:00 AM
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building codes are generally county.city specific, usually an adoption of other codes with local specific modifications Here are links to county/city codes that talk about floating requirements.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GidD2KfYwkKu33

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...FlIXOYoZUJuVLn
Yup and it looks like this is the main for Colorado:
2018 Colorado IRC Basement Guide from Colorado Chapter of International Code Council (CCICC).

Then each county/city has there own twist on it:
Douglas County: 3" of expansion, top or bottom. No drywall callout, drawing shows less of a drywall gap.
Fort Collins: NONE needed
Broomfield: 1.5 movement minimum, Floating wall "VOID" site specific. 2018 CCICC drawing
Longmont: Specific 1 inch on drywall gap with 1.5 of movement, Same 2015 CCICC drawing
Arapahoe: 1.5 movement, Same 2015 CCICC drawing
Denver: Same 2015 CCICC drawing
Boulder County: Nothing specific other than floating recommended. Detailed Boulder County Building Code
City of Lakewood: Specific 1 inch on drywall gap with 1.5 of movement, Same 2015 CCICC drawing
City of Louisville: 1.5" Gap with Drywall 1.5" above floor.

So it looks like there is zero specifics from the state, but a 1" gap for some and 1.5" for others.
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post #30 of 42 Old 05-28-2020, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by A.T.M. View Post
Okay, here is what I remember; and probably what I'm going to do: They did the regular floating floors--with the treated board on the bottom and the huge nails and the floating frames, ending the drywall ~ 4" off of the floor

After inspection they attached a piece of MLV with liquid nail to the back of the lowest 2" of the drywall attached to the clips. Then they used liquid nailed and attached a 4" piece of DW/GG/DW to the lower 4" of MLV (it was not taped nor mudded- and the lower[inner theater DW/GG/DW/MLV outer theater pink fluffy] piece was slightly mobile)

The baseboard was then attached to the drywall that covered the seam between the two areas of drywall--The baseboard was added after the floor was put in.

I tried to draw something up below that was close, if you can't see it let me know.

Aaron
Interesting. I think I see what they did. Is there anybenefit of doing it this way, rather than ending the drywall and inch from the floor? More area to work with I assume?
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