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post #1 of 36 Old 03-17-2020, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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My First "Budget" Home Theater - Help Needed

Hello Everyone,

Basement finishing finally started and i'm needing to make some decisions and would love to get your input on if i'm on the right track and what I should adjust and tweak.
I would like to isolate sound as much as possible from the master bedroom which is directly above family room which is next to the theater room to avoid an angry wife! 😉

I'm also working within a budget so thus far I was planning to:
* Install resilient channel on the ceiling, shared wall with family room and shared wall with stairs
* Do I need use the clips or can I drill the channel directly into the joists? Any recommended budget noise clips?
* Double 5/8 drywall with green glue on walls with resilient channel
* Do I need DD on exterior walls or am I okay with single layer of 1/2 or 5/8?
* Originally I was looking into Rockwool Safe n Sound but wondering if I can get away with regular insulation to control costs.
* If I don't use Rockwool Safe n Sound, is there a recommended budget option that I should use for walls and ceiling that helps with sound isolation?

Project Screen Dilemma:
Considering the necessary evil hvac ductwork and the fact that a soffit has to be built to wrap it along with the plumbing pipes should I center the screen on wall-to-wall or wall-to-soffit? I really wanted a 135" screen but considering the soffit i'll most likely have to go down to 110"
The design render shows a 135" screen to scale but the soffit isn't accurate, with it extending out i'll most likely have to reduce its size.
Also, i'm only planning on 2 rows of seating hoping for 3 seats for each row.

Although I was thinking to use niched area towards the back for equipment, there's a concrete wall behind it so there's no room for rear access, does anyone have suggestions on where I should place the equipment in this room configuration? does it make sense to move it all to the area under the stairs, if so, how do others control devices when they aren't in the same room? will a harmony remote suffice?


Equipment
Audio 5.2.4 - Speakers: L/R - Klipsch RP-280, C - RP-450C, Surrounds - RP-250s, Atmos - Micca M-8C x4
Projector: Epson 5040UB
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post #2 of 36 Old 03-17-2020, 09:28 PM
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Subbed because I have some of the same questions. What are your theater dimensions? Thx and good luck!
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post #3 of 36 Old 03-18-2020, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Subbed because I have some of the same questions. What are your theater dimensions? Thx and good luck!
13’ x 22’
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post #4 of 36 Old 03-18-2020, 06:06 AM
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* Install resilient channel on the ceiling, shared wall with family room and shared wall with stairs
* Do I need use the clips or can I drill the channel directly into the joists? Any recommended budget noise clips?
* Double 5/8 drywall with green glue on walls with resilient channel
* Do I need DD on exterior walls or am I okay with single layer of 1/2 or 5/8?
* Originally I was looking into Rockwool Safe n Sound but wondering if I can get away with regular insulation to control costs.
* If I don't use Rockwool Safe n Sound, is there a recommended budget option that I should use for walls and ceiling that helps with sound isolation?


flanking sound will severely limit your results if you don't do ALL the walls. with Clips, Channel DDW and GG. Pro designs even address the floor floating a subfloor on a rubber pad.
yes clips are required the budget friendly clip is the IB1 soundproodingcompany.com or A237 on ebay
quit saying resilient channel it is hat channel, big difference
if you do clips, channel and DDW with GG you can use the cheapest fiberglass insulation you can find. The Damped Isolated Mass is doing all the heavy lifting and insulation just mitigates cavity resonances. Insulation for theater low frequencies is a waste of money, won't do squat


Don't overlook every hole you cut in the drywall and use either putty pads of backer boxes
beefy airtight door.
sound attenuating duct work if connected to the rest of the house.
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move those water pipes
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post #6 of 36 Old 03-18-2020, 02:50 PM
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As what Big said, use the hat channel and the cheaper clips that's what I am planning on doing. For the walls you could the IB-3 clips at the top to decouple it and strips of horse mats under the bottom plate.
I see the one wall against the concrete is in and you could still cut the studs down to put in the IB-3 clips.

They stay two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue is the best for mass. If you want to control footfall from above you could add double layers of 5/8" DW and GG between the joist screwed into the sub-floor above.

If you do all this, pink fluffy should be good for insulation.

Since you have the 5040 have you thought of going with a acoustical transparent scope screen say a 135" 2.35:1? With this screen you would have almost a 108" 16:9 screen inside of it and be able to sit 9.5' to 10' eyes to screen, maybe closer. This screen should fit below your soffet for your duct work. The 5040 has lens memory and is easy to setup for both sizes of screen.

http://www.displaywars.com/135-inch-...07,8-inch-16x9


https://www.screeninnovations.com/to...ze-calculator/

Do you plan on 3 rows of two? 2 rows of three would be better. Seatcraft have seats with 3 chairs per row that are 92" wide and Fusion makes the Jives that are 88" wide and still have storage compartments.

https://4seating.com/seatcraft-theat...r-seating.html

http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionColle...Jive-1013.html

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post #7 of 36 Old 03-18-2020, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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As what Big said, use the hat channel and the cheaper clips that's what I am planning on doing. For the walls you could the IB-3 clips at the top to decouple it and strips of horse mats under the bottom plate.
I see the one wall against the concrete is in and you could still cut the studs down to put in the IB-3 clips.

They stay two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue is the best for mass. If you want to control footfall from above you could add double layers of 5/8" DW and GG between the joist screwed into the sub-floor above.

If you do all this, pink fluffy should be good for insulation.

Since you have the 5040 have you thought of going with a acoustical transparent scope screen say a 135" 2.35:1? With this screen you would have almost a 108" 16:9 screen inside of it and be able to sit 9.5' to 10' eyes to screen, maybe closer. This screen should fit below your soffet for your duct work. The 5040 has lens memory and is easy to setup for both sizes of screen.

http://www.displaywars.com/135-inch-...07,8-inch-16x9


https://www.screeninnovations.com/to...ze-calculator/

Do you plan on 3 rows of two? 2 rows of three would be better. Seatcraft have seats with 3 chairs per row that are 92" wide and Fusion makes the Jives that are 88" wide and still have storage compartments.

https://4seating.com/seatcraft-theat...r-seating.html

http://www.rtheaters.com/FusionColle...Jive-1013.html
Thanks for the info and guidance.

I'll order some of the IB1/A237 clips, I'm assuming that will be much better than directly drilling the "hat channel" onto the studs, what's the best way to calculate how much i'll need based on my room measurements? Also, is it okay to install the hat channel 24" apart or should I stick with 16"?
Here's the one I was planning to order double leg: https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...4426596013.htm

I also found this one slightly more expensive: https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...961-c-5695.htm

Seems like this one will take up more ceiling height.

The contractor was planning to do basic insulation and 1/2" drywall and unfortunately these details weren't really disclosed on the contract so most probably now that i'm learning more about proper soundproofing all of this additional material is considered change orders.

I know its not ideal but can i get away with 1 tube of green glue per sheet? its not cheap and if i can buy less of it I can offset the cost of additional drywall to do the whole room. I'm hoping for better sound isolation but know that it won't be perfect especially with all of the ductwork and flanking noise but I want it to at least perform twice as good as the basic 1/2" drywall on stud directly. I also constantly wonder if i'll go through all of that work and the sound will just easily travel out and in via the vents that will be opened in the theater room.

I'm going to also ask him about moving the water pipes so I don't have to extend the soffit that much but if I do that he'll have to figure out how to move the duct at the end of the vent too.

I have thought about the cinema scope screen and do know that its better for movies but we tend to watch a lot of 16:9 (Netflix, Youtube) content and my understanding is that video games are usually 16:9 too and i'm not sure if I'll be okay with decreased height of 2.35 and black bars on each side of the screen. From normal movie watching on TVs I feel like most of us are already used to seeing black bars on top and bottom so i was thinking that's an okay compromise for the 16:9 screen. For sure as things gets closer i'll setup the projector and experiment with memory lens as well the different screen sizes to see what works.

One of the reasons I bought the Klipsch speakers is for their look so I would hate to hide it behind a screen.

I'm liking the Seatcraft seats, if it can fit and have space for the the platform steps my preference would be to have 2 rows of 3 seats.

What are your thoughts on equipment placement? leave it in the theater room or keep in in the closet under the stairs, any recommendations for AV racks/cabinets to use?
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post #8 of 36 Old 03-18-2020, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AmaziN01 View Post
Here's the one I was planning to order double leg: https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...4426596013.htm

That is not hat channel that is RC2 do not use you can't use clips with it. The other is the right hat channel, I get it for under $4 a piece at a drywall supplier. Always cheaper than the big boxes.
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post #9 of 36 Old 03-18-2020, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by AmaziN01 View Post
Thanks for the info and guidance.
... but can i get away with 1 tube of green glue per sheet?
I would stick to 2 tubes per sheet if you want it to work evenly on the entire sheet of drywall. Sorry, I wish it was cheaper too. I think you can buy it in larger quantities for less (maybe ~5 gal buckets) and use an auto-loader with it--this might help save some money

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post #10 of 36 Old 03-19-2020, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmaziN01 View Post
Thanks for the info and guidance.

I'll order some of the IB1/A237 clips, I'm assuming that will be much better than directly drilling the "hat channel" onto the studs, what's the best way to calculate how much i'll need based on my room measurements? Also, is it okay to install the hat channel 24" apart or should I stick with 16"?
Here's the one I was planning to order double leg: https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...4426596013.htm

I also found this one slightly more expensive: https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...961-c-5695.htm

Seems like this one will take up more ceiling height.

The contractor was planning to do basic insulation and 1/2" drywall and unfortunately these details weren't really disclosed on the contract so most probably now that i'm learning more about proper soundproofing all of this additional material is considered change orders.

I know its not ideal but can i get away with 1 tube of green glue per sheet? its not cheap and if i can buy less of it I can offset the cost of additional drywall to do the whole room. I'm hoping for better sound isolation but know that it won't be perfect especially with all of the ductwork and flanking noise but I want it to at least perform twice as good as the basic 1/2" drywall on stud directly. I also constantly wonder if i'll go through all of that work and the sound will just easily travel out and in via the vents that will be opened in the theater room.

I'm going to also ask him about moving the water pipes so I don't have to extend the soffit that much but if I do that he'll have to figure out how to move the duct at the end of the vent too.

I have thought about the cinema scope screen and do know that its better for movies but we tend to watch a lot of 16:9 (Netflix, Youtube) content and my understanding is that video games are usually 16:9 too and i'm not sure if I'll be okay with decreased height of 2.35 and black bars on each side of the screen. From normal movie watching on TVs I feel like most of us are already used to seeing black bars on top and bottom so i was thinking that's an okay compromise for the 16:9 screen. For sure as things gets closer i'll setup the projector and experiment with memory lens as well the different screen sizes to see what works.

One of the reasons I bought the Klipsch speakers is for their look so I would hate to hide it behind a screen.

I'm liking the Seatcraft seats, if it can fit and have space for the the platform steps my preference would be to have 2 rows of 3 seats.

What are your thoughts on equipment placement? leave it in the theater room or keep in in the closet under the stairs, any recommendations for AV racks/cabinets to use?

As Big said use the second one that is hat channel that doesn't have the holes in it.

There is a big difference from 1/2" and 5/8" drywall and the cost shouldn't be that bad, you are probably only talking $1.50 or less in a price difference.

I know what you mean about the price of Green glue and 1 would probably be ok, but 2 is recommended. Now the 5 gallon buckets cover about 365 sqft vs 12 tubes of 28 oz's is 192 sqft and if you buy in bulk they may be cheaper. Now I think the tubes are less mess, but saving money is the thing to do. If someone is installing the drywall and green glue on clips and channel I would try to be on site when it is done or give them specific instructions on how to do it. I have attached a word doc that Big has posted many times on here.

This may help in setting up the clips and channel. https://isostore.com/resilient-sound-clip-calculator

Also some good reading is; https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/

I have a 120" 16:9 screen and many of the local guys in my area have scope screens and it very cool. I am looking to keeping my 120" 16:9 screen by going with a 151" 2.25:1 screen and it will fit inside of it. I kind of like the idea of the bars on the sides instead of the top and bottom. If you go with say 92" row of 3 chairs that would be inside a 109" 16:9 that is inside a 136" 2.35:1. You could make masking panels for the sides.
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post #11 of 36 Old 03-19-2020, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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As Big said use the second one that is hat channel that doesn't have the holes in it.

There is a big difference from 1/2" and 5/8" drywall and the cost shouldn't be that bad, you are probably only talking $1.50 or less in a price difference.

I know what you mean about the price of Green glue and 1 would probably be ok, but 2 is recommended. Now the 5 gallon buckets cover about 365 sqft vs 12 tubes of 28 oz's is 192 sqft and if you buy in bulk they may be cheaper. Now I think the tubes are less mess, but saving money is the thing to do. If someone is installing the drywall and green glue on clips and channel I would try to be on site when it is done or give them specific instructions on how to do it. I have attached a word doc that Big has posted many times on here.

This may help in setting up the clips and channel. https://isostore.com/resilient-sound-clip-calculator

Also some good reading is; https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/

I have a 120" 16:9 screen and many of the local guys in my area have scope screens and it very cool. I am looking to keeping my 120" 16:9 screen by going with a 151" 2.25:1 screen and it will fit inside of it. I kind of like the idea of the bars on the sides instead of the top and bottom. If you go with say 92" row of 3 chairs that would be inside a 109" 16:9 that is inside a 136" 2.35:1. You could make masking panels for the sides.
Thanks for the info and helpful resources, just doing ceiling and interior walls it came to 130 clips and 352 linear feet of channel which is about 30 using that calculator. Depending on cost I might do the same for exterior walls as well to reduce flanking noise. Unfortunately coronavirus has put a delay on everything and contractor is self quarantined so we'll see how things shape up to be in the following weeks.

I did some research and found a local drywall supplier in Omaha that has the Hat channels for only $3 a piece, so much better than Menards
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I know what you mean about the price of Green glue and 1 would probably be ok, but 2 is recommended. Now the 5 gallon buckets cover about 365 sqft vs 12 tubes of 28 oz's is 192 sqft and if you buy in bulk they may be cheaper. Now I think the tubes are less mess, but saving money is the thing to do. If someone is installing the drywall and green glue on clips and channel I would try to be on site when it is done or give them specific instructions on how to do it. I have attached a word doc that Big has posted many times on here.
The auto loader is actually supper simple to use and keep clean just have an extra 5 gallon pail with water in it and hang it there when installing the drywall.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmaziN01 View Post
Thanks for the info and helpful resources, just doing ceiling and interior walls it came to 130 clips and 352 linear feet of channel which is about 30 using that calculator. Depending on cost I might do the same for exterior walls as well to reduce flanking noise. Unfortunately coronavirus has put a delay on everything and contractor is self quarantined so we'll see how things shape up to be in the following weeks.



I did some research and found a local drywall supplier in Omaha that has the Hat channels for only $3 a piece, so much better than Menards
If you are in the Omaha area, there are some guys there where you can check out their theater's and they could give you some insight and advice

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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If you are in the Omaha area, there are some guys there where you can check out their theater's and they could give you some insight and advice

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Please tag them if you know them, would love to meet other home theater enthusiasts here
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Originally Posted by AmaziN01 View Post
Please tag them if you know them, would love to meet other home theater enthusiasts here
@desertdome is a good person to talk to. He sells AV equipment and does calibrations and lives in Omaha.

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The auto loader is actually supper simple to use and keep clean just have an extra 5 gallon pail with water in it and hang it there when installing the drywall.
AND fill it with water when your done for the day/ so that it works the next day when you go to finish (or finish all in one day!!!).

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Following. Have a similar sized space I'm building out. Doing a 135" diagonal screen.

edit: you're shooting the screen the long way though, and I'm doing the opposite. Still interested to see how you frame things.

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post #18 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
quit saying resilient channel it is hat channel, big difference
if I'm primarily concerned with footfall sound (living room hardwood floors above my theatre, young kids) should I do resilient channel and then 1/8" plywood/ green glue / 5/8" drywall? Have to keep the ceiling thickness down since I'm only 6'10" floor to joist right now so I don't want to do do two layers of drywall. with either rockwool or pink insulation in the joists.

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You could cut strips of 5/8 drywall and GG them between your joists. That might help some.

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You could cut strips of 5/8 drywall and GG them between your joists. That might help some.
That's an idea. I'm mostly concerned with joist transmission of footfall though so not sure. I may just do 1/2" glued to 5/8"
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post #21 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 03:09 PM
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if I'm primarily concerned with footfall sound (living room hardwood floors above my theatre, young kids) should I do resilient channel and then 1/8" plywood/ green glue / 5/8" drywall? Have to keep the ceiling thickness down since I'm only 6'10" floor to joist right now so I don't want to do do two layers of drywall. with either rockwool or pink insulation in the joists.
I would strongly consider doing the double drywall with green glue between the joists. Our theater is under the master bathroom which has a tile floor and you can faintly hear footfall if the theater is quiet. In our case not a huge deal becuase its such a low traffic area but if it wasn't it would be enough to bug me. FWIW I have room inside a room construction with clips and hat channel on the ceiling. Walls are 5/8" DW/GG/5/8" DW and ceiling is 5/8" OSB/GG/ 5/8" DW pink fluffy or OC Safe n Sound, as well as Dynomat on the pipes.
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post #22 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 04:58 PM
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I would strongly consider doing the double drywall with green glue between the joists. Our theater is under the master bathroom which has a tile floor and you can faintly hear footfall if the theater is quiet. In our case not a huge deal becuase its such a low traffic area but if it wasn't it would be enough to bug me. FWIW I have room inside a room construction with clips and hat channel on the ceiling. Walls are 5/8" DW/GG/5/8" DW and ceiling is 5/8" OSB/GG/ 5/8" DW pink fluffy or OC Safe n Sound, as well as Dynomat on the pipes.
so many acronyms - what is OSB?

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post #23 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 05:15 PM
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so many acronyms - what is OSB?
Sorry about that:

OSB - Oriented strand board
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oriented...9696/205821485

GG - Green Glue
DW - Dry wall
OC - Owens corning (similar to Rockwool)

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post #24 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
if I'm primarily concerned with footfall sound (living room hardwood floors above my theatre, young kids) should I do resilient channel and then 1/8" plywood/ green glue / 5/8" drywall? Have to keep the ceiling thickness down since I'm only 6'10" floor to joist right now so I don't want to do do two layers of drywall. with either rockwool or pink insulation in the joists.

As mentioned above the best method of reducing footfall sounds is to attach damped mass directly to the bottom of the subfloor. That translates to attaching two layers of 5/8 drywall strips directly to the subfloor with Green Glue and a few screws. Be careful they only go into the sub-floor and not the hardwood layer. Description of this method on Soundproofingcompany.com. That method doesn't reduce head room.

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post #25 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 05:31 PM
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so many acronyms - what is OSB?
Sorry about that:

OSB - Oriented strand board
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oriented...9696/205821485

GG - Green Glue
DW - Dry wall
OC - Owens corning (similar to Rockwool)
Thanks!!
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post #26 of 36 Old 04-14-2020, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
if I'm primarily concerned with footfall sound (living room hardwood floors above my theatre, young kids) should I do resilient channel and then 1/8" plywood/ green glue / 5/8" drywall? Have to keep the ceiling thickness down since I'm only 6'10" floor to joist right now so I don't want to do do two layers of drywall. with either rockwool or pink insulation in the joists.

As mentioned above the best method of reducing footfall sounds is to attach damped mass directly to the bottom of the subfloor. That translated to attaching two layers of 5/8 drywall strips directly to the subfloor with Green Glue and a few screws. Be careful they only go into the sub-floor and not the hardwood layer. Description of this method on Soundproofingcompany.com. That method doesn't reduce head room.
Thank you I will check that out 🙂

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post #27 of 36 Old 04-15-2020, 09:42 PM
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what do you guys use to deaden duct sound? I'll be building a box around my ducts and attaching drywall (now probably 2x 5/8"). I assume I'll want to insulate the ducts with something. These are rectangular aluminum returns. HVAC will be on the other side of the wall, about 3 feet away.

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post #28 of 36 Old 04-17-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
what do you guys use to deaden duct sound? I'll be building a box around my ducts and attaching drywall (now probably 2x 5/8"). I assume I'll want to insulate the ducts with something. These are rectangular aluminum returns. HVAC will be on the other side of the wall, about 3 feet away.
I have seen Dynamat used, but it is expensive on the main trunks or build a duct muffler around them. I have three supplies for my main level running through my joist and I was thinking of changing the metal ducts out for flex ducts and adding 5/8" drywall in the joist area with Green Glue and fill the empty space with pink fluffy. Basically this is a duct muffle. Probably just adding insulation around the ducts and and sealing it with drywall may be enough since I plan on doing clips, channel, 2 layers of 5/8" type X drywall and Green Glue. For HVAC for the room I am going to build a supply and return dead vent and pull and discharge air in my basement and not tie into my current system. I rather have the room cool then hot.

Check out https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/ for more information on soundproofing.
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post #29 of 36 Old 04-17-2020, 09:40 AM
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one best practice is serpentine duct silencers that you can build into ceiling, walls, soffits etc. Not one I did but the same concept.
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post #30 of 36 Old 04-17-2020, 10:21 AM
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I have seen Dynamat used, but it is expensive on the main trunks or build a duct muffler around them. I have three supplies for my main level running through my joist and I was thinking of changing the metal ducts out for flex ducts and adding 5/8" drywall in the joist area with Green Glue and fill the empty space with pink fluffy. Basically this is a duct muffle. Probably just adding insulation around the ducts and and sealing it with drywall may be enough since I plan on doing clips, channel, 2 layers of 5/8" type X drywall and Green Glue. For HVAC for the room I am going to build a supply and return dead vent and pull and discharge air in my basement and not tie into my current system. I rather have the room cool then hot.

Check out https://www.soundproofingcompany.com/ for more information on soundproofing.
Thanks, taking a look. I'm not clear on what "dead vent" is unless it's just to move air around and not heat anything. I would need heat.

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