Does size matter that much? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Does size matter that much?

The house we purchased has pre-existing wiring in the room we are are using for the theater and I have been using speaker wire on the floor to use a bigger gauge wire with the idea of replacing the existing wire with 12 gauge wire.


After going up in the attic the holes they drilled in the horizontal wood framing for the wire are exactly the same size as the 16 gauge wire and there is no give in the wire at all. I could expand the hole in the top framing wood but there is another horizontal board about 4 feet down as well so unfortunately replacing the wire isn't an easy job at all for my skill level.



The 16 gauge wire distance is roughly 50 feet and I am running JTR 212 HTR speakers off of a Emotiva XPA-3 amp.



I need some advice:
- If I stick with the 16 gauge wire am I loosing speaker performance due to the smaller gauge and distance?

- Should I replace the 16 gauge wire for 12 guage wire up to the final wall run and splice it to the 16 gauge so only last 10 feet is 16 gauge?

- Should I pay for a professional AV installer to run 12 gauge wire all the way?


Thanks much for any input.
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post
The 16 gauge wire distance is roughly 50 feet and I am running JTR 212 HTR speakers off of a Emotiva XPA-3 amp.
This might help:

http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

I think 16g is a bit on the "light" side....

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post #3 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 11:05 AM
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here is some useful information, yes doing part of the run with 12 will help. The effect of wire size is on the net resistance of the run to the speaker. So if you decrease it on a good majority of the run you should be good. You could prove it to yourself by splicing 12 onto the part you can, then doing an A/B test of your speakers with the combo wire compared to a full 12 ga run you just run on the floor for the test. You could do it by ear or if you have the right gear do a near field frequency response measurement.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

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post #4 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 12:00 PM
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The title of this thread made me lmao.
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post #5 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
The title of this thread made me lmao.

You're probably not the only one....

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post #6 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
The title of this thread made me lmao.

I figured it would be quicker to get some help with a good title.
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post #7 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post
I figured it would be quicker to get some help with a good title.


And maybe just me, but I'd not splice if it can be avoided. While it would work, you are introducing potential failure points if not done properly. You'd probably be O.k., but just something to think about.

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post #8 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 05:51 PM
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solder the splice, no failure
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post #9 of 18 Old 04-04-2020, 06:20 PM
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How about a six foot drill bit to drill thru that mid-wall partition? Only about $30 at Home Depot.
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post #10 of 18 Old 04-05-2020, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
solder the splice, no failure
Hence, my qualification of "if not done properly".... I should have elaborated....

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyc30 View Post
How about a six foot drill bit to drill thru that mid-wall partition? Only about $30 at Home Depot.
Yep, better than tearing out drywall if that can be avoided.

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post #11 of 18 Old 04-05-2020, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyc30 View Post
How about a six foot drill bit to drill thru that mid-wall partition? Only about $30 at Home Depot.

I tried to use a 5' one from a 1 gang size hole but it just went on an angle to outside of the house. Going to try to figure out some way to go from top down. There are a bunch of electrical wires and almost no clearance for a bit from above so all I have left is to get through one header.
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-05-2020, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post
I tried to use a 5' one from a 1 gang size hole but it just went on an angle to outside of the house. Going to try to figure out some way to go from top down. There are a bunch of electrical wires and almost no clearance for a bit from above so all I have left is to get through one header.

Yeah, I had to do this for my rear surround wiring - too close to the roof line, no way to get me and a drill above the header, so I had to remove sheet rock and go from below it and up through. Not fun. But it worked out in the end. Let's just say my sheet rock skills need some work...

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #13 of 18 Old 04-05-2020, 07:41 PM
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as I said before I don't think he needs to do all this work, a short piece of 16 g at the end of the line won't make a measurable difference. All it satisfies is ones OCD. Have you ever looked at the wiring inside an amp or a speaker box, I have and it's not 12 g.
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post #14 of 18 Old 04-06-2020, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
as I said before I don't think he needs to do all this work, a short piece of 16 g at the end of the line won't make a measurable difference. All it satisfies is ones OCD. Have you ever looked at the wiring inside an amp or a speaker box, I have and it's not 12 g.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the long runs are 16 gauge and the issue at hand is upgrading that to 12 gauge due to the long runs and lower impedance speakers. In wall/ceiling wiring to be upgraded, with the remainder being the 16 gauge, no?

7.2.4 System: Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60
Mains:
Paradigm Prestige 85F and 55C; Side / Rear Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III / Tribe I; Amplification: D-Sonic M3a-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w)
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #15 of 18 Old 04-06-2020, 10:22 AM
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"Should I replace the 16 gauge wire for 12 guage wire up to the final wall run and splice it to the 16 gauge so only last 10 feet is 16 gauge?"


I'm saying if only 20% of the wire is 16, skip the work of drilling inside a wall with a 5 ft drill. Just spice it.
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post #16 of 18 Old 04-10-2020, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
"Should I replace the 16 gauge wire for 12 guage wire up to the final wall run and splice it to the 16 gauge so only last 10 feet is 16 gauge?"


I'm saying if only 20% of the wire is 16, skip the work of drilling inside a wall with a 5 ft drill. Just spice it.
I find my wires go best with curry.
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post #17 of 18 Old 04-10-2020, 12:48 PM
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Sorry, I haven't been the same since one of my favorite curbside contact-less Mexican restaurants closed. These are the spices I was thinking about.



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post #18 of 18 Old 04-10-2020, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I wound up having a 'professional' take care of it. The header is 3 layers with plating.



Instead of going through the header they took and angle and drilled through the drywall inside of the crown molding cavity and went through to the drywall at the bottom.


Hope the information/trick above helps someone else to save a chunk of change.
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