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post #1 of 10 Old 04-07-2020, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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New Construction HT Speaker Location

Hi all,

Building a new house and looking for some advice on 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 speaker / subwoofer placement and type in a new build (room layout attached). Here are my thoughts:

1. Here is the easy part... 77" TV on top wall with either 3 higher end LCR in-wall or freestanding L/R + matching center
2. Here is where is gets tricky... I'm struggling with the side surrounds in a 7.2.4 setup as the closet on the right is really throwing this off. I think I may be able to shrink the closest size a bit and put an in-wall surround on right side then on the other side of the room to the left of that window. Then I could put two rear in-wall surrounds on the bottom walls before they start arching upward
3. Instead of the above, should I scrap the 7 speaker idea and put in-wall speakers in rear at ear level or on wall surrounds and stick with a 5.2.4 plan
4. One other idea I had is getting a sealed subwoofer (possibly the SVS 4000) and building a recessed enclosure into the wall for this to streamline aesthetics. Any issues with this?
.
I know there is a lot of things here, but any thoughts / suggestions would be appreciated. If someone has a better idea for ideal layout, would love to hear it as it is a unique space
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post #2 of 10 Old 04-07-2020, 07:36 PM
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See drawing - I have placed the couch at 1/3 room length which is ideal for negating mode nulls in a rectangular room. Not sure how your shape affects room modes so it may not be necessary. You could put it further back to bring the surrounds more in line with the seating.

The placement of the entry and those doors really restricts your options.

You could rotate you layout 90deg as per 2nd drawing. Depending on your seating there may not be enough room for surrounds and access. In-walls would help but you would need to build out a stub wall in the recess area.
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post #3 of 10 Old 04-07-2020, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
See drawing - I have placed the couch at 1/3 room length which is ideal for negating mode nulls in a rectangular room. Not sure how your shape affects room modes so it may not be necessary. You could put it further back to bring the surrounds more in line with the seating.

The placement of the entry and those doors really restricts your options.

You could rotate you layout 90deg as per 2nd drawing. Depending on your seating there may not be enough room for surrounds and access. In-walls would help but you would need to build out a stub wall in the recess area.
This is actually incredibly helpful as I hadn't considered putting the rears on that back wall... but makes complete sense. I could also shrink that door a bit (to perhaps 2' flat to give more room for the side surrounds). The second picture won't work unfortunately as that is a window on the left wall, which we can't remove at this point.

You may be aware from the drawing but the height of the darker outer walls is 6'8" with the wall following the roof line and angling up to 9'. In the first drawing, all Atmos speakers would be in front of couch. Is that an issue? Should I just get angled speakers to solve that if so?
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post #4 of 10 Old 04-07-2020, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jmo519 View Post
This is actually incredibly helpful as I hadn't considered putting the rears on that back wall... but makes complete sense. I could also shrink that door a bit (to perhaps 2' flat to give more room for the side surrounds). The second picture won't work unfortunately as that is a window on the left wall, which we can't remove at this point.

You may be aware from the drawing but the height of the darker outer walls is 6'8" with the wall following the roof line and angling up to 9'. In the first drawing, all Atmos speakers would be in front of couch. Is that an issue? Should I just get angled speakers to solve that if so?
Plan C attached. Since you only have a 77" TV probably best to bring the seating forward a bit. That is an awesome surround and rear surround positioning - pretty close to all 7 speakers equidistant from MLP

Rear Atmos will be physically lower than front Atmos but can still be mounted on the same 45deg angle. Since the rears will now also be angled toward the MLP, the front Atmos would ideally be angled the same way. In-ceilings wil be hard to do this way so bookshelfs would be an easier solution. Also bookshelfs would allow the rears to be mounted almost anywhere in that rear alcove area.
And bookshelfs make better Atmos speakers as you can point them exactly at the listeners instead of straight down at the dog lying on the rug.
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post #5 of 10 Old 04-08-2020, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
Plan C attached. Since you only have a 77" TV probably best to bring the seating forward a bit. That is an awesome surround and rear surround positioning - pretty close to all 7 speakers equidistant from MLP

Rear Atmos will be physically lower than front Atmos but can still be mounted on the same 45deg angle. Since the rears will now also be angled toward the MLP, the front Atmos would ideally be angled the same way. In-ceilings wil be hard to do this way so bookshelfs would be an easier solution. Also bookshelfs would allow the rears to be mounted almost anywhere in that rear alcove area.
And bookshelfs make better Atmos speakers as you can point them exactly at the listeners instead of straight down at the dog lying on the rug.
I had thought bringing the speakers up may have been the best route. For the WAF (and just slick overall aesthetics), I was originally pushing for in walls on the surrounds; however, bookshelves (with perhaps a nice built-in platform) may be the best route to go for the sides (and likely the rears, to your point of angling as needed).

On the Atmos, any visceral reaction to having the rear two mounted on an angle and 1-2 feet below front? Is there a reason to consider just doing a 7.1.2 setup? I presume room correction will compensate for distance but just curious if this warrants moving down to just 9 speakers (not trying to talk myself out of 11, just curious ).
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post #6 of 10 Old 04-08-2020, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jmo519 View Post
I had thought bringing the speakers up may have been the best route. For the WAF (and just slick overall aesthetics), I was originally pushing for in walls on the surrounds; however, bookshelves (with perhaps a nice built-in platform) may be the best route to go for the sides (and likely the rears, to your point of angling as needed).

On the Atmos, any visceral reaction to having the rear two mounted on an angle and 1-2 feet below front? Is there a reason to consider just doing a 7.1.2 setup? I presume room correction will compensate for distance but just curious if this warrants moving down to just 9 speakers (not trying to talk myself out of 11, just curious ).

Not sure I follow you


The bed level surrounds can be in-walls or bookshelfs - which ever you prefer. Angling the rear surrounds is beneficial but not absolutely necessary if you want to run in-walls - just maybe bring them in closer together but still within Dolby 7.1 specs. I was only talking about angling the Atmos speakers.



In regards to the Atmos speakers it doesn't matter as much about the fronts and rears being the same height - it is more important to have them on the same angle.

7.1.2 would be easier for you and sound good - but 7.1.4 will definitely sound great and there aren't really any issues I can see stopping you doing .4


I will do some more mud drawings for you tomorrow (my time) to explain a bit better.
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post #7 of 10 Old 04-08-2020, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure I follow you


The bed level surrounds can be in-walls or bookshelfs - which ever you prefer. Angling the rear surrounds is beneficial but not absolutely necessary if you want to run in-walls - just maybe bring them in closer together but still within Dolby 7.1 specs. I was only talking about angling the Atmos speakers.



In regards to the Atmos speakers it doesn't matter as much about the fronts and rears being the same height - it is more important to have them on the same angle.

7.1.2 would be easier for you and sound good - but 7.1.4 will definitely sound great and there aren't really any issues I can see stopping you doing .4


I will do some more mud drawings for you tomorrow (my time) to explain a bit better.
Bringing the side surround speakers (and seating position) up to where you have them in drawing C is what I meant, sorry for confusion. For the Atmos based on where they are drawn, they would be pointed at a 45 (ish) degree angle outward. For reference, I'm using Paradigm Elite speakers in this room. Would your thought be to use these (https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceili...ci-elite-e80-r) as the rear Atmos (again mounted 1-2 feet lower and at an angle) and these (https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceili...ci-elite-e80-a) as the front 2?

Again, maybe it just makes sense to forego the back 2 if they don't add much and muddy things a bit... will I really gain a lot from doing the 7.1.4 vs. the 7.1.2?
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-08-2020, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmo519 View Post
Bringing the side surround speakers (and seating position) up to where you have them in drawing C is what I meant, sorry for confusion. For the Atmos based on where they are drawn, they would be pointed at a 45 (ish) degree angle outward. For reference, I'm using Paradigm Elite speakers in this room. Would your thought be to use these (https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceili...ci-elite-e80-r) as the rear Atmos (again mounted 1-2 feet lower and at an angle) and these (https://www.paradigm.com/en/in-ceili...ci-elite-e80-a) as the front 2?

Again, maybe it just makes sense to forego the back 2 if they don't add much and muddy things a bit... will I really gain a lot from doing the 7.1.4 vs. the 7.1.2?
The 45deg angles I am referring to is the height angle. See drawing again (not to scale or accurate in any way) for side view.
So the rear Atmos is on the raked ceiling and lower than the front, but still at 45 deg, same as front. The rear will be delayed and level reduced so that sound arrives at the same time and volume as the front and since it is arriving on the same angle will appear to be identically placed. However with in-ceilings you can see you will be off-axis to the front speaker and this may sound different.

This is where bookshelfs come in so you can aim them directly at MLP - see second drawing.

Atmos speakers should be in line with front L&R so if you have to mount them in the alcove area then bookshelfs will be necessary - see 3rd drawing for rearview

And 7.x.4 is far superior to 7.x.2 - .2 sounds good but .4 sounds great
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post #9 of 10 Old 04-09-2020, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by niterida View Post
The 45deg angles I am referring to is the height angle. See drawing again (not to scale or accurate in any way) for side view.
So the rear Atmos is on the raked ceiling and lower than the front, but still at 45 deg, same as front. The rear will be delayed and level reduced so that sound arrives at the same time and volume as the front and since it is arriving on the same angle will appear to be identically placed. However with in-ceilings you can see you will be off-axis to the front speaker and this may sound different.

This is where bookshelfs come in so you can aim them directly at MLP - see second drawing.

Atmos speakers should be in line with front L&R so if you have to mount them in the alcove area then bookshelfs will be necessary - see 3rd drawing for rearview

And 7.x.4 is far superior to 7.x.2 - .2 sounds good but .4 sounds great
Thanks for all the advice here. I'd really like to keep the Atmos all in ceiling if possible. I went over to the house today and did a bit of measuring and attached a picture of how we modified the door and created a bay for in-wall side surrounds. The rear surrounds have been brought up as well to the wall below the knee bend on the far right of this picture. The back of the couch / chairs will be in line (or very close to) the edge of the wall right by the stairs there. Given this, I'm curious if I could get away with putting rear Atmos in the ceilings where I've put the green circle. This is just behind the MLP but in line with the side surrounds. Any issues here?
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post #10 of 10 Old 04-10-2020, 04:10 AM
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Thanks for all the advice here. I'd really like to keep the Atmos all in ceiling if possible. I went over to the house today and did a bit of measuring and attached a picture of how we modified the door and created a bay for in-wall side surrounds. The rear surrounds have been brought up as well to the wall below the knee bend on the far right of this picture. The back of the couch / chairs will be in line (or very close to) the edge of the wall right by the stairs there. Given this, I'm curious if I could get away with putting rear Atmos in the ceilings where I've put the green circle. This is just behind the MLP but in line with the side surrounds. Any issues here?
The in-ceilings you have drawn are not far enough behind you for .4 Atmos - they are almost directly overhead.
Yes it will work and sound OK but putting the rears at 45 degrees is going to sound a whole lot better.
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