That MOMENT when you realize… that’s gonna be a problem! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 04-08-2020, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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That MOMENT when you realize… that’s gonna be a problem! SOLVED!?

Started a dedicated theatre build quite a while ago. Had to put it on hold for other priorities in life, a.k.a. growing kids 😊.
Been back on it since winter and almost done.

While re-doing the math for the screen wall, since it was done quite a while ago, I’ve come to realize that I never took into account that the throw measurement needs to be from the tip of the lens to the surface of the screen. Gotta love it!!
I have a structural beam at 146” from the screen wall and I had planned for a 120” acoustic transparent screen.

Well, therein lies the problem!

Mocking up the projector (Sony 295es), and measuring, I’m left with 136” to the screen wall. That’s really bites. I’m way too short to have a 120” screen let alone my speakers behind it.
After going round and round and round and looking all over this section, I can’t figure out what to do with the screen wall.
I have already accepted that I need to reduce to a 110” screen that would sit on the wall with my speakers out front.
Not what I really wanted, but I guess it will work. I’ve just removed my minimalist screen wall and I’m kinda stumped.

Can anybody give me some ideas on how finish the wall after mounting the screen?
As I was initially looking to have the speakers behind the screen, I have material for 2 layers of linacoustic but I’m not sure if that should still be applied?
I SOOOOOO need to get out of the house, but that’s probably not gonna happen for a while ☹

Thanks,
Mike

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post #2 of 40 Old 04-08-2020, 09:02 PM
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You could extend the throw distance with a mirror. You can also recess the speakers into the wall to decrease the space needed behind the screen. You could mount the projector on the other side of the beam. More info needed.
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post #3 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 06:02 AM
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You could weld the mount to the beam. Or attach a 2x6 to the beam and screw into that. You could have the beam moved $$$. As Big suggests, more info and pictures would help too.
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post #4 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 06:09 AM
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You can hang the projector behind the beam and shoot the image just below it, that Sony projector has adequate vertical lens shift
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post #5 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 07:52 AM
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Please provide photos, drawings, diagrams. This will really help us help you.

+1 as BIG said, use a mirror.


This accomplishes allot of your needs for you.
1 - It will help you gain throw distance.
2 - By using a mirror, it may allow you to gain enough throw distance to still use an 120" AT screen with your speakers behind it like you really want.
3 - It would also allow you to add a panamorphic lens in the future if you go with a 2.35 AR.
4 - Allow you keep with the current plan of a Sony 295, otherwise you could change out to a UST PJ, but that would come with a huge cost.
5 - Having a mirror installed and fully aligned and image calibrated makes for a great conversation piece with friends and family.
6 - You don't have to compromise on everything.
7 - Great members on AVS to help you through it, no matter which direction you choose to go.

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post #6 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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WOW, thanks for the suggestions guys!!

VERY much appreciated.

I’ve attached a quick side view sketch of the room that I did this morning. This will hopefully provide more useful information.

Just some quick answers to your suggestions:

• The screen wall is external with the foundation right behind it so not too much to gain there to recess the speakers.

• I definitely tried to figure out mounting around the beam. With the 2nd row riser, and the seating positions, it really didn’t seem to work. It would be a distraction to the 2nd row viewers as it would be in their field of view. I would have LOVED this option to work… but with the mock up and seating, it just really doesn’t feel & look right. I also contemplated boring the beam to shoot through it… but then came back to reality ☹

• I’ve looked into a rear mounting location (behind 2nd row) but the beam would require the projector to be mounted too low as well.

• The structural beam is unfortunately made of wood so no welding. If I had realized my error back in the beginning, knowing what I know now, I would’ve had a steel beam installed even at the $$$ price tag. Unfortunately, hindsight is always 20/20.

For a short bit, I even considered a UST projector but there don’t seem to be any audio transparent screens for UST’s, so no advantage trying to keep my screen wall there either.

As I had never heard of using mirrors, I googled the setup. Although it looks interesting, I’m not sure I’m comfortable mounting that setup. Adjusting angles and setup that up makes me cringe and also wondering about the effect of vibrations and dust?!

Thanks again for the input guys!!!

Mike
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post #7 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
• I definitely tried to figure out mounting around the beam. With the 2nd row riser, and the seating positions, it really didn’t seem to work. It would be a distraction to the 2nd row viewers as it would be in their field of view. I would have LOVED this option to work… but with the mock up and seating, it just really doesn’t feel & look right.

I've hung many projectors Sony and JVC over the second row chair backs. You can't hit it standing on the riser because of the chairs and you can't hit it with your head when sitting down because of your body mechanics of sitting.
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post #8 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjaymz View Post
Please provide photos, drawings, diagrams. This will really help us help you.

+1 as BIG said, use a mirror.


This accomplishes allot of your needs for you.
1 - It will help you gain throw distance.
2 - By using a mirror, it may allow you to gain enough throw distance to still use an 120" AT screen with your speakers behind it like you really want.
3 - It would also allow you to add a panamorphic lens in the future if you go with a 2.35 AR.
4 - Allow you keep with the current plan of a Sony 295, otherwise you could change out to a UST PJ, but that would come with a huge cost.
5 - Having a mirror installed and fully aligned and image calibrated makes for a great conversation piece with friends and family.
6 - You don't have to compromise on everything.
7 - Great members on AVS to help you through it, no matter which direction you choose to go.
All valid points sirjaymz. Thanks!
From surfing all over these threads... #7 is an understatement.
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post #9 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
I've hung many projectors Sony and JVC over the second row chair backs. You can't hit it standing on the riser because of the chairs and you can't hit it with your head when sitting down because of your body mechanics of sitting.
I was more worried about the noise right above their heads. I guess a hush box would solve that though.
I think I will un-box my chairs and mock it up... again! lol
I'll snap a couple of pics while I'm at it as well.

Thanks,
Mike
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post #10 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:39 AM
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as drawn your riser is too shallow for recliners and too far forward. clearance of 5 1/2 ft under the beam standing on the riser. what is behind the second row? Also the second row does not have an unobstructed view of the screen, drawn in the proposed screen heights bottom and top

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post #11 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:42 AM
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picture of projector over chair backs shooting under a beam. those loose wires got secured
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post #12 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
as drawn your riser is too shallow for recliners and too far forward. clearance of 5 1/2 ft under the beam standing on the riser. what is behind the second row? Also the second row does not have an unobstructed view of the screen, drawn in the proposed screen heights bottom and top
Yeah, the 2nd row chairs might not be exactly in position.
They require minimal space from the wall to recline and when they are fully reclined and the 1st row as well, there is no interference with the 1st & 2nd row viewers.

The steps up the riser are such that the beam shouldn't be an issue for head clearance. It is a bit tight though as I am 6' and just pass.

Behind the 2nd row is the back wall.

The screen is just randomly positioned in that sketch.
It will need to be lifted to prevent obstruction and probably require the projector to be lowered if behind the structured beam.

Mike
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post #13 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
picture of projector over chair backs shooting under a beam. those loose wires got secured
Those are beautiful setups. I'm quite a bit more confined for space.
I see the idea of the mounting though.
Thank you.
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post #14 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 09:29 AM
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it there is a back wall a shelf mount may be easier to work with and you can do a hush box
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post #15 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
it there is a back wall a shelf mount may be easier to work with and you can do a hush box
I'm going to setup a couple of chairs and snap some pics with he projector mocked up.
It will only be later tonight as I'm 'working' from home at the moment.

A shelf would be easy to add on the back wall if that end up working within the space confinements.

Appreciate the help Big!
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post #16 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 01:04 PM
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My Sony is directly above seating with no issues from its fans. Super quiet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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post #17 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
My Sony is directly above seating with no issues from its fans. Super quiet.


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That's very good to hear, cause it's going to be pretty close if I go that route.

Thanks!
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post #18 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
as drawn your riser is too shallow for recliners and too far forward. clearance of 5 1/2 ft under the beam standing on the riser. what is behind the second row? Also the second row does not have an unobstructed view of the screen, drawn in the proposed screen heights bottom and top
Big,

Had my two helpers set up a couple of chairs in the room to grab some pics.



Ran a wire from the top of the screen to the top of the mock projector (actual size):



When sitting in the chair, the bottom of the projector would only be approx 8.5" - 9" from my head. I'm 6'.





View to screen from 2nd row. It would be close, but I'm sure we could get the front viewers to recline a pinch worst case.
The screen is a 110" at the moment and it is directly on the back wall.



Side views:





Comments? Suggestions??

Thanks!
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post #19 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
I've hung many projectors Sony and JVC over the second row chair backs. You can't hit it standing on the riser because of the chairs and you can't hit it with your head when sitting down because of your body mechanics of sitting.
This is exactly what I was thinking also. No one can bump their head on that projector because they stand in front of it and when under it are sitting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
I was more worried about the noise right above their heads. I guess a hush box would solve that though.
I think I will un-box my chairs and mock it up... again! lol
I'll snap a couple of pics while I'm at it as well.

Thanks,
Mike
The Sony 295ES isn't very loud even on high lamp in my opinion. As long as your main seating position is good, I woudln't worry too much about the rear seat overflow being bothered by the fan noise. These people will be amazed no matter what your room looks like.

The other option is perhaps putting the projector directly behind the beam and carving out a lens sized hole in the beam for the light to get through.

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This is exactly what I was thinking also. No one can bump their head on that projector because they stand in front of it and when under it are sitting.


The Sony 295ES isn't very loud even on high lamp in my opinion. As long as your main seating position is good, I woudln't worry too much about the rear seat overflow being bothered by the fan noise. These people will be amazed no matter what your room looks like.

The other option is perhaps putting the projector directly behind the beam and carving out a lens sized hole in the beam for the light to get through.
Thanks for the input markmon1
The projector is still in its box, so that's good to hear.
I always thought my seat would be center, rear as I always sit near the back of a theater.
Maybe something I will look at when it's all done.

I mentioned up near the beginning about boring the beam.
I got a feeling that's probably going to be a big no-no from a structural engineering point although I'd have NO problem with it.
It's still probably not the best solution.

Thanks!
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post #21 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 07:06 PM
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P.S. I can't figure out how to embed pics. Can someone let me in on the secret?! lol

Two options on embedding pictures:
- right below the comment box you will see another box that says Drag Files Here to Attach
- If you look up in the menu bar you will see a icon that is a square with a little mountain in it. Click on this button and paste the URL of the picture you want to embed.
-- Dropbox isn't necessarily the best site to use when embedding URLs, something to do with their access control

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post #22 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Two options on embedding pictures:
- right below the comment box you will see another box that says Drag Files Here to Attach
- If you look up in the menu bar you will see a icon that is a square with a little mountain in it. Click on this button and paste the URL of the picture you want to embed.
-- Dropbox isn't necessarily the best site to use when embedding URLs, something to do with their access control
Definitely must be something with DropBox.
I actually tried both of those on my previous post and there were just empty blanks where the pics should have been.
I used links for the moment but it's not as practical.

What is the hosting site of choice for this?
I used to use Photobucket, but I thought they stopped hosting.
Haven't posted a pic in ages.

Thanks for the help!
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post #23 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacque Jacque Shellacque View Post
Thanks for the input markmon1
The projector is still in its box, so that's good to hear.
I always thought my seat would be center, rear as I always sit near the back of a theater.
Maybe something I will look at when it's all done.

I mentioned up near the beginning about boring the beam.
I got a feeling that's probably going to be a big no-no from a structural engineering point although I'd have NO problem with it.
It's still probably not the best solution.

Thanks!
You might consider building the room around you being in the front center. With native 4K, you need to be very close to the screen to see and appreciate it. You won't get that in the back row. You have a very sharp projector. You will want to push close to your screen to benefit from its abilities.

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post #24 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 07:23 PM
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Do you have any pictures of how the soffit box was built, there are construction designs that waste a lot of headroom, also what are your plans for the big gap behind the front row?
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post #25 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have any pictures of how the soffit box was built, there are construction designs that waste a lot of headroom, also what are your plans for the big gap behind the front row?
All I can find at the moment are bits and pieces of it. It is 3 pieces glued together. It spans the outer wall to the staircase. Approx. 12ft







When the 1st row reclines all the way and the 2nd row is reclined all the way, there really isn't too much clearance.
That was the distance we calculated so nobody gets a foot in the head.
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post #26 of 40 Old 04-09-2020, 08:15 PM
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OK they didn't waste space covering it with drywall, but they probably could have recessed it flat with the drywall ceiling and hung the joists off the sides rather than sitting on top. Would add cost to the project but about now you would understand the value. And no, you can't bore a hole in it.
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post #27 of 40 Old 04-10-2020, 05:57 AM
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Not sure what speakers you were planning, but you could opt for some nice inwalls and hang the screen just off the drywall instead of building a false wall. Your subs will be in-room, but you'll save a foot on the false wall. Triad is one brand that makes very good speakers that could work very well in your room. I have Triad Silvers and really enjoy them.

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post #28 of 40 Old 04-10-2020, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure what speakers you were planning, but you could opt for some nice inwalls and hang the screen just off the drywall instead of building a false wall. Your subs will be in-room, but you'll save a foot on the false wall. Triad is one brand that makes very good speakers that could work very well in your room. I have Triad Silvers and really enjoy them.
Thanks for the thoughts BllDo!

Unfortunately, since this project was shelved for quite some time, all my audio equipment is still new in their boxes.
I'm really going to try and use them.
They had been opened for testing, then packed up again and are still there.

My speakers, which are not really small, are:

Def Tech BP7004BL
Def Tech BP2X
Def Tech BPX
Def Tech C/L/R 2300

Hopefully they aren't dried out... don't know if that's possible or not?!

I already bit the bullet and had to change my receiver for 4K content.
Somebody will get a bargain at some point on an Integra DTR-7.8 still NIB.

Thanks again for the input!

Mike
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post #29 of 40 Old 04-10-2020, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
also what are your plans for the big gap behind the front row?
Big,

Here are of couple of pics for why we left that gap between row 1 & 2.
When the viewers are reclined, albeit this is almost an exaggeration, there really isn't much room between the 2 rows.





Thanks,
Mike
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post #30 of 40 Old 04-10-2020, 08:25 PM
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I run the riser to the back of the front row so you have a wider platform to walk on
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