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post #1 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The Cinema Rouge II

In February 2008, I began work on a home theater in Michigan - the Cinema Rouge Home Theater. After four years of learning the science of home theater building through this forum, I finally opened the theater in December 2011 just in time to watch the ball drop on New Years Eve.

We enjoyed the theater for four full years before I moved to Charlotte, NC in furtherance of my career. The home sale was quite easy. I firmly believe the buyers bought a home theater with an attached house. They asked me to leave everything, including all of the electronics that I probably would have taken. After thinking about the potential changes in technology and improvements in AV equipment over the coming years, I figured I'd want new stuff when I eventually built a new theater, so I left it all for the new buyers of the Cinema Rouge.

Having a theater was awesome. So much so, we are excited to have the Cinema Rouge II underway.

I documented much of the original theater here on AVS, and I am still using it to refresh my own memory about things I did. But there were a number of mistakes I made, so I am hoping I have learned what to do differently. Nonetheless, I am going to try to chronicle the new build here so I can look back fondly on this theater build. And maybe get answers to some questions along the way. And heaven forbid I need a third home theater, I'll know what to tell the contractor to build for me.

Here's hoping this isn't another four year project ...
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post #2 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 12:39 PM
 
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Love your Tombstone quote. Can't wait to see this build.

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post #3 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Truth be told, the project is partially under way, and has been for about a year.

The house we bought had a game/media room above the garage - roughly 15 x 19. I felt it was too small to do what I wanted to do with the room, namely two rows of seating and a large CIH screen.

Here was the old screen wall. The entrance was on the left side, just past the cutout in the wall for a few components.



This was the back of the room, with two windows in the back and a full bath on the right.



Not only was this room a tad bit too small for my plans, but I felt the two windows, the bathroom, and the open hallway entrance to the room was going to make it challenging to soundproof.

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post #4 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 01:15 PM
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Oh my.............


A 4:3 screen....and Foosball.


Well there are some definite ideas / changes to consider. I'd like to see a sketch of the new room's floor plan, including all window /door locations.


Mistakes? We don't need no stinkin' mistakes!



You want performance and cosmetics at a reasonable budget? I'm your Huckleberry.
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post #5 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 01:19 PM
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You could probably go with two rows of seats if you go with a regular screen unless you go with in-walls for the front maybe. Your first theater looks really nice and you had more length to work with, but I bet you make this one great as well.

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post #6 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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The solution? More house.

We decided the best course of action was to turn the existing "theater" into a pub/gameroom, and build an addition further over to garage to fulfill our aspirations for a real theater.

We have two two-car garages at a right angle to each other. The existing theater room, bath, and guest room extend 30 feet or so over the first of the two garages, but not all the way to the far corner of the garage. Between the garages, in the corner, is a room with a bathroom we use for a home gym, and there was nothing above the gym (except an HVAC unit in the attic, which was a big code violation, air ducts terminating in the garage spaces).





I have no qualms about tackling the home theater aspect of things, but I don't pretend to do roofing, stucco, sheathing, and many more of the structural framing things associated with building a second story addition to the house. We contracted that part out - to have a builder build us "Unfinished Storage." We would take care of the rest.

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post #7 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
I bet you make this one great as well.
Thanks! Here's hoping!

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post #8 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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So, here's the concept:



It's unfinished storage on the plans, so I could have the builder close his permit with no finished floor, no drywall on the walls or ceiling, no electrical other than a single light bulb. Bare studs, bare ceiling joists, and bare subfloor. And a solid core slab door I may use/modify for the finished room. And no windows.

To make the exterior more visually appealing, we brought the exterior corner forward so it lined up with the man door between the garage doors. That gave me a 4' x 6' closet off of the pub. (The pub is the large unnamed room on the floor plan.) The theater room is 24'8" x 16'2" between the studs. I moved the door all the way to the right side of the plan so it is at the back of the theater, not the middle of the theater, so I could have a long unbroken wall in the pub.





We kicked off the design of the room last March, and commenced construction on Monday, May 13, 2019 - one year ago tomorrow. So I'm not quite a year behind in starting my build thread.

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post #9 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Construction of the Addition

It went quickly ... 9 weeks from start to finish for the project.











And two angles of the finished room. They did a good job matching the stucco. Way better than I would have done.





Finished up on July 11, 2019.

Didn't get the first lien put on the house until July 25th. Apparently the builder decided not to pay his sub contractors. The lumber company is large enough to make a problem for everyone, so they attached a lien after I had made final payment, and then sued us in December to enforce it. They had no legal standing, since our contract was paid in full and closed before they ever attached a lien. But it took until February 2020 to get the suit dropped and the lien cancelled. But by February everything was good to go, and I decided to move forward.
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post #10 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Drywall Delivery

After the room got built (and for some reason I don't have any pictures of just the bare room), it sat for several months. In November, I had three tons of drywall delivered through the windows on the second floor. Two guys took the sheets off the crane, and carried them through the guest room, through the bath room, through the pub, and stood them on the perimeter walls in the room. Definitely worth the price of delivery!









You can also see a mini split in the last photo. That was quite a challenge. As I mentioned in a previous post, there was an air handler in the attic above the gym, that heated/cooled the gym and one of the garages. But terminating the ducts into the garage is a code violation. The theater was going to go right where the old unit was, so it obviously had to go. But I needed HVAC in the garage, because I use it as a wood shop, and I don't want rust on everything. Plus I prefer to do that hobby in some semblance of comfort.

I had a four-head mini split installed. Ductless, it can be used in the garage. So I put a head in the gym, one large one in the garage/shop, one in the theater, and a fourth one in the pub. The pub is at the end of the run, so it tends to get less of the central air than other rooms. So the new mini split head works as a booster of sorts. Was less than $1000 difference to add the fourth head, so I went ahead and had it piped in with the rest of them.

And that is where the room has stayed until the last week or so. A bare storage room with a mini split HVAC and a single light bulb.
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post #11 of 128 Old 05-12-2020, 08:30 PM
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Looks great! Glad the debacle is over for you. Looking forward to seeing this develop!
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post #12 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I did these plans to get a conceptual idea of where to put the riser, stage, columns, fixtures, etc. It's not an exact rendering because I don't show anything theater related yet, or even color scheme. But here is a dimensioned drawing of my room and a few dollhouse views from the CAD program.

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post #13 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 11:50 AM
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So you are going with two rows and a bar area? What seating are you going to us in front of the bar? Recliners won't leave you much room, are going with commercial theater seats? The room is a nice size to work with.

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post #14 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Four recliners in the front, and 5 flip up chairs in the back. Then a few stools at the bar.

Still debating the bar. I think I have room for the bar the way it is drawn out. But the front seats will be fixed, so to speak, so when I get the riser built I may change my mind about the bar if it feels cramped.

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post #15 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 01:08 PM
 
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Four recliners in the front, and 5 flip up chairs in the back. Then a few stools at the bar.



Still debating the bar. I think I have room for the bar the way it is drawn out. But the front seats will be fixed, so to speak, so when I get the riser built I may change my mind about the bar if it feels cramped.
You have or are already building a pub, correct? I have found people that try to incorporate a bar into a theater space wreck the home theater feeling unless they have a big separation between bar and theater. I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to build a robust platform and put in a back row of recliners instead of fold down theater seating. Just my two cents. Unless this is supposed to be more of a hangout space/multimedia space . Then your design makes more sense.

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post #16 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I have found people that try to incorporate a bar into a theater space wreck the home theater feeling unless they have a big separation between bar and theater.
That is something I am concerned about, yes, trying to do too much in the theater space itself.
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post #17 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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This was the thought:



Maybe the bar is a bridge too far.
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post #18 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 02:55 PM
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Snickers1 did this at his place. Very similar to what you are planning. The back bar was overflow seating and he had stools available at the real bar adjacent to the theater space that he could pull over.
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This was the thought:







Maybe the bar is a bridge too far.
I am not your friend, yet. LOL. Maybe I won't be after my opinion but those movie fold down seats aren't befitting a theater of the grandeur of your house or your theater. It looks crammed in as well. I would rather a pony wall maybe on the sides and perhaps behind the second second of recliners on the riser to give some architectural flair. You could put a dark wooden fold down very little depth bench on the back wall. Out of view basically but when needed you could fold the bench down for extra seating. You could even recess the bench into the wall. Just need to work out the correct height to see over the second row. Just spitballing here. With the pony wall you would still have the aesthetic you were going for. Did we just become best friends? 2

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post #20 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 03:18 PM
 
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Snickers1 did this at his place. Very similar to what you are planning. The back bar was overflow seating and he had stools available at the real bar adjacent to the theater space that he could pull over.
I wish I had seen your post and pictures before I wasted my breath LOL. See my post right after yours You do such beautiful design and execution. Thanks for sharing. That looks amazing.

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post #21 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 03:24 PM
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You do such beautiful design and execution. Thanks for sharing. That looks amazing.
I only provided some inspiration and morale support on that project, all the design and work was done by Rich.
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post #22 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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That's definitely food for thought. Thank you both. I'll continue to noodle on the overall layout. I've got some time. It all starts with a soundproof room, I know.

When I built the theater in Michigan, I cheated on the soundproofing. I left up the original drywall (it was a finished bonus room) and added a second layer of drywall with green glue. Better than nothing, I suppose, but I always knew it could have been better. I could hear the rain on the roof, for example. So this room is going to get the full treatment, so to speak. Decoupled walls and ceiling on clips and channels. Decoupled floor on rubber underlayment.

I'm using Genie RST isolation clips and 25 gauge hat channel Got most of it put up, except where the stacks of drywall cover the bottom four feet.





What has me vexed this evening, though, is the door jamb. It seems no matter what I do, the door jamb itself will extend from the outside of the room to the inside of the room. Is there some sort of a "split" door jamb with rubber in the middle, so the inside of the jamb is decoupled from the outside of the jamb?

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post #23 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 07:12 PM
 
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That's definitely food for thought. Thank you both. I'll continue to noodle on the overall layout. I've got some time. It all starts with a soundproof room, I know.



When I built the theater in Michigan, I cheated on the soundproofing. I left up the original drywall (it was a finished bonus room) and added a second layer of drywall with green glue. Better than nothing, I suppose, but I always knew it could have been better. I could hear the rain on the roof, for example. So this room is going to get the full treatment, so to speak. Decoupled walls and ceiling on clips and channels. Decoupled floor on rubber underlayment.



I'm using Genie RST isolation clips and 25 gauge hat channel Got most of it put up, except where the stacks of drywall cover the bottom four feet.











What has me vexed this evening, though, is the door jamb. It seems no matter what I do, the door jamb itself will extend from the outside of the room to the inside of the room. Is there some sort of a "split" door jamb with rubber in the middle, so the inside of the jamb is decoupled from the outside of the jamb?



Hopefully @BIGmouthinDC will have some time to weigh in. I can't imagine he hasn't seen or done something like that with a door at some point.

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post #24 of 128 Old 05-13-2020, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Just to clarify, I intend to add seals around the door itself, with gasketed stops on three sides and a door bottom seal that drops down when you close the door, so it's not leakage from the door itself I am thinking about. And I'll seal the inside of the wall right up to the door frame. I can even float the double drywall 1/4 inch from the frame and seal it with caulk so my drywall stays decoupled from the door frame.

It's the actual jamb, itself, that seems to bridge from outside to inside. Not sure why sound won't travel through the actual jamb. Or is it so negligible that one not need worry about it? it's just a piece of 1x6 that won't transmit much sound?

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post #25 of 128 Old 05-14-2020, 06:20 AM
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Most pro builds I've seen don't worry the fact the jamb isn't decoupled. Some DIY builds have gone ahead and made a split jamb with something resilient in the gap. It seams to be the easiest to do if you are doing a communicating double door setup, then you are usually starting with two jambs and you can add a gap.

Of greater concern when doing a clip and channel wall system with a door that swings into the room is providing a solid backing for the hinges. You want to be able to add some long screws into the framing not just the edge of the drywall. This can be addressed by adding a wider jack stud or sistering additional material on to the rough in framing. An old sketch attached.


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post #26 of 128 Old 05-14-2020, 06:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
Most pro builds I've seen don't worry the fact the jamb isn't decoupled. Some DIY builds have gone ahead and made a split jamb with something resilient in the gap. It seams to be the easiest to do if you are doing a communicating double door setup, then you are usually starting with two jambs and you can add a gap.

Of greater concern when doing a clip and channel wall system with a door that swings into the room is providing a solid backing for the hinges. You want to be able to add some long screws into the framing not just the edge of the drywall. This can be addressed by adding a wider jack stud or sistering additional material on to the rough in framing. An old sketch attached.


You really go above and beyond for complete strangers. It really is commendable. We need more people like you.

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post #27 of 128 Old 05-14-2020, 06:28 AM
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I think I created that sketch for a paying consulting client. I've saved a few because I know the topic comes up all the time with clips and channel. Maybe someday I'll put them all in a book
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post #28 of 128 Old 05-14-2020, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, Jeff. That does confirm my approach.

And you should write a book! You have a such a wealth of information to share. I've followed your wisdom on this forum for over 12 years, now.

It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Brian
The Cinema Rouge Home Theater, The Cinema Rouge II Home Theater
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post #29 of 128 Old 05-14-2020, 07:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sands_at_Pier147 View Post
Thank you, Jeff. That does confirm my approach.



And you should write a book! You have a such a wealth of information to share. I've followed your wisdom on this forum for over 12 years, now.
I second that emotion. You can make a couple hundred grand just selling to the AVS Forum enthusiast.

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post #30 of 128 Old 05-14-2020, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sands_at_Pier147 View Post
Thank you, Jeff. That does confirm my approach.

And you should write a book! You have a such a wealth of information to share. I've followed your wisdom on this forum for over 12 years, now.
Agreed. I would definitely buy that book. It would save me from combing through all the bookmarked posts he has made over the years with helpful hints and diagrams. I'm sure I'm missing a few too.
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