Window plug suggestions? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By jjcook
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 06-03-2020, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
simplyderp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Window plug suggestions?

Looking for a stopgap solution to soundproof my windows before I commit to fully soundproofing the room. Most of the sound is leaking through the windows, especially in the mid frequencies. They are double pane windows with probably the same thickness glass.

I was considering this product: https://www.acoustimac.com/sp4727g/. It's a wood frame panel with insulation and mass loaded vinyl. It doesn't have a seal, so there will be a 1/8" gap on each side. Would the lack of seal be a problem? Here are the measurements: https://www.acoustimac.com/media/TL15-334.pdf. STC 34. I was quoted $1000 to do all the windows.

Any alternative or better solutions that you'd recommend? Ideally the window sound transmission loss to be equal or greater than the walls. Concerned about fire rating because California

Windows are outlined in purple. Please excuse the mess :P


LG C9, Genelec 8341A, 8030C, Rythmik G25HP, Emotiva XMC-1, GIK Acoustics

Last edited by simplyderp; 06-03-2020 at 01:40 AM.
simplyderp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 06-03-2020, 07:43 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 33,677
Mentioned: 507 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6671 Post(s)
Liked: 6548
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyderp View Post
Looking for a stopgap solution to soundproof my windows before I commit to fully soundproofing the room.

What level of improvement are you hoping to achieve. I looked at the test results and they have an STC of 34 in the test setup which would be sealed around the edges. About the same as a 2x4 framed single layer drywalled room. If you fully commit to soundproofing the room what would that include and would you consider covering some to the windows? or are plugs going to be required in the final version.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #3 of 11 Old 06-03-2020, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
simplyderp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
What level of improvement are you hoping to achieve. I looked at the test results and they have an STC of 34 in the test setup which would be sealed around the edges. About the same as a 2x4 framed single layer drywalled room. If you fully commit to soundproofing the room what would that include and would you consider covering some to the windows? or are plugs going to be required in the final version.
With double pane window + air gap + window plug combo, I'm hoping for the sound isolation to at least be close to the 2x6 framed highly heat insulated walls from 10-20,000hz. I can also add a layer to one of the panes so that they don't resonate as similarly.

For full commit, I'd consider these options depending on the improvement. A lot of constraints so I'll work with a pro consultant before deciding on anything.
  • semi permanent option for window that can be cleanly removed before selling house
  • replace windows, replace doors, double doors.
  • tear down drywall
  • wall within wall if it doesn't kill resale value. room is 21x13x11
  • can lower the ceiling height
  • $5-20k

LG C9, Genelec 8341A, 8030C, Rythmik G25HP, Emotiva XMC-1, GIK Acoustics
simplyderp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 Old 06-03-2020, 01:58 PM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 33,677
Mentioned: 507 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6671 Post(s)
Liked: 6548
You could probably build your own plugs that would have more damped mass (higher STC) and would seal tightly. You have to put a value on your time and you would probably spend at least half of their bid on materials. If you were to build your own you should consider how you might reuse them when you fatten the walls and need permanent plugs. I think a big question is do you want lids fitting over the windows mounted on the room side of the drywall, plugs that fit inside the recess like a wine bottle cork or a combination cork with a lip. Like a champagne cork.

Last edited by BIGmouthinDC; 06-03-2020 at 02:49 PM.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #5 of 11 Old 06-03-2020, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
simplyderp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
You could probably build your own plugs that would have more damped mass (higher STC) and would seal tightly. You have to put a value on your time and you would probably spend at least half of their bid on materials. If you were to build your own you should consider how you might reuse them when you fatten the walls and need permanent plugs. I think a big question is do you want lids fitting over the windows mounted on the room side of the drywall, plugs that fit inside the recess like a wine bottle cork or a combination cork with a lip. Like a champagne cork.
They have an option for higher density MLV (2 lb / sq ft) compared to the one tested (1 lb / sq ft). I think either "lid" or "cork" style would work. It might be more cost effective to purchase prebuilt depending on how effective it is vs. DIY.

LG C9, Genelec 8341A, 8030C, Rythmik G25HP, Emotiva XMC-1, GIK Acoustics
simplyderp is offline  
post #6 of 11 Old 06-04-2020, 06:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
You could probably build your own plugs that would have more damped mass (higher STC) and would seal tightly. You have to put a value on your time and you would probably spend at least half of their bid on materials. If you were to build your own you should consider how you might reuse them when you fatten the walls and need permanent plugs. I think a big question is do you want lids fitting over the windows mounted on the room side of the drywall, plugs that fit inside the recess like a wine bottle cork or a combination cork with a lip. Like a champagne cork.

I'll soon need to do this, too. I will have only one window to do and it will be behind my screen. I had planned to do a "plug" style, so that the surface is reasonably flush with the walls. I figured a frame built with 2x4's, drywall, then the cavity filled with Roxul. Am I on the right track? What would you suggest to make it a fairly tight seal but still removable in an emergency?


Also, because I know that you know, what is your opinion on cellulose wall insulation as opposed to Roxul or mineral fiber. Met with my builder today and he's a cellulose guy through and through and says that it also has decent sound-proofing properties. Should I stick to my Roxul guns here?

Last edited by Shooter41; 06-04-2020 at 06:32 PM.
Shooter41 is offline  
post #7 of 11 Old 06-05-2020, 05:17 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 33,677
Mentioned: 507 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6671 Post(s)
Liked: 6548
copied this from a source https://bettersoundproofing.com/best...ose_Insulation STC is the more relevant data for wall assemblies. There is a variety of cellulose densities. If you are building with clips and channel double layers or DW with GG the choice of insulation is not important, go cheap. Insulation damps cavity resonances. Sound is transmitted through a wall by way of the structure not the air cavities. That means Damped Isolated Mass rules in your walls and your future plug.



Cellulose vs Roxul Rockwool

  • Cellulose, depending on its density, has an STC range from 44 to 68 and an NRC between 0.8 and 0.9. Made of 75 to 85% recycled paper, it can be used in pre and post construction applications. It’s a good sound absorber, and reduces feedback, and echo.
  • Roxul Rockwool batts are 3.5” thick and have an STC rating of 45 and an NRC rating of 1.05. It is more rigid than other batts but is a pre-construction product. Rockwool has good mid to upper sound absorption ratings, and even the low end is respectable. It also helps reduce reverberation and feedback sounds.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #8 of 11 Old 06-05-2020, 12:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post
copied this from a source https://bettersoundproofing.com/best...ose_Insulation STC is the more relevant data for wall assemblies. There is a variety of cellulose densities. If you are building with clips and channel double layers or DW with GG the choice of insulation is not important, go cheap. Insulation damps cavity resonances. Sound is transmitted through a wall by way of the structure not the air cavities. That means Damped Isolated Mass rules in your walls and your future plug.



Cellulose vs Roxul Rockwool

  • Cellulose, depending on its density, has an STC range from 44 to 68 and an NRC between 0.8 and 0.9. Made of 75 to 85% recycled paper, it can be used in pre and post construction applications. It’s a good sound absorber, and reduces feedback, and echo.
  • Roxul Rockwool batts are 3.5” thick and have an STC rating of 45 and an NRC rating of 1.05. It is more rigid than other batts but is a pre-construction product. Rockwool has good mid to upper sound absorption ratings, and even the low end is respectable. It also helps reduce reverberation and feedback sounds.

I appreciate the link. What about the window plug? Is my solution decent or no? Ideas for the seal?
Shooter41 is offline  
post #9 of 11 Old 06-05-2020, 01:25 PM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 33,677
Mentioned: 507 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6671 Post(s)
Liked: 6548
something off the weather stripping aisle at home depot, I like a couple layers of DW with GG for the plug plus insulation
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #10 of 11 Old 06-05-2020, 02:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,135
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Check out this post from Roger Dressler on his window plug using felt underlayment: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post54128153
Shooter41 likes this.
jjcook is offline  
post #11 of 11 Old 06-05-2020, 03:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
Check out this post from Roger Dressler on his window plug using felt underlayment: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...l#post54128153

Excellent! Thanks...
Shooter41 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off