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post #181 of 192 Old 04-24-2020, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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And then a year later went with bigger Thiel and Thiel sub and special Thiel crossover. Turns out that was not necessary.
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My current setup.
Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, the /filmcast, AV Rant.
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post #182 of 192 Old 04-24-2020, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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More useful was upgrading the seating in late 2011 and early 2012.
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My current setup.
Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, the /filmcast, AV Rant.
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post #183 of 192 Old 04-24-2020, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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In 2013, an upgrade to in wall Thiels for the surrounds. That was impressive in terms of form factor but also started to show the limits of Thiel for this application.

Then the following year I would discover Triad, and while I tried a few different form factors (their Golds, their Bronzes, some LCR, some on wall, some in wall, even some ceiling speakers for ATMOS, etc) I have kept with them in the seven years since. For those keeping score, I switched out speakers on average more than once a year for the first six years, and then stayed with one family of speakers for the next 6 years. Also moved to Rythmik subs at this time and am still using those.

That's not all about the speakers themselves. Rather, it was also about learning what worked best in this room, and doing things like installing an acoustically transparent screen, adding more treatment including more diffusion diffusion, and getting a professional calibration of the audio system.
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post #184 of 192 Old 04-24-2020, 06:03 PM
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An interesting rear view on the evolution of your room.
Wish more owners would do this.
My budget does not allow such extravagant equipment experimentation, but I have done my fair share of trial and error over the years.
Thanks for the update.
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post #185 of 192 Old 04-24-2020, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
An interesting rear view on the evolution of your room.
Wish more owners would do this.
My budget does not allow such extravagant equipment experimentation, but I have done my fair share of trial and error over the years.
Thanks for the update.
You have done great work with your room. And it looks super nicely "finished" in terms of professional trim levels. I'll bet that sounds awesome given the room treatments you have hidden in that space.

My guess is that experimentation might be fun but wouldn't result in big changes to your choices. I say this because I found that getting the room right made far more difference than anything else, and from the looks of it, you have tackled that.

And of course I have no idea what your budget it like, but I can say I only managed to do all that experimentation by being disciplined and a little crazy.

Living close to a metropolitan area I would browse craigslist (or other sources of used gear) and bought everything other than the projector and seats used. And when I was done with something, I turned into back into cash to fund the next thing. I was usually able to sell the gear for about what I paid.

It meant a lot of legwork but the actual cost of the setup, in the end, was far less than retail, which is not chump change but a lot better than if I had bought new, etc etc.

---

Triad might be the most extreme example:

The other awesome thing about Triad is that they sell for cheap on the used market. That isn't why I kept them of course but it made it relatively low risk to try them out. I was able to try out their flagship GOLD LCR for a year, and when I sold them I think I just about broke even.

(Don't tell anyone, but bigger is not always better. The BRONZE LCR actually sound better in my room -- probably because I am so close to them that the drivers being closer together actually makes a difference in terms of integration? or the smaller size creates less baffle diffraction, kind of like how satellite speakers can image better than towers, with less effort? -- and since I didn't need the output capability of the GOLDS, little was lost. I might might might try out some Silvers if I run across them for cheap on the used market BUT I can reach reference level with the current setup so I am not inclined to seek them out.)

Long story on Triad, short: I just checked and I picked up the Triad bronze in wall LCR I'm using in the surround positions for $100 each. The ones in the front were closer to $150 each. Retail when new was c. $600 each.


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Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, the /filmcast, AV Rant.

Last edited by nathan_h; 04-25-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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post #186 of 192 Old 06-01-2020, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Added the Dolby Vision hack to the Vertex/Projector. Makes all the DV content on itunes super nice.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post59657366

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Just wanted to update and say thanks to everyone that advised me, in particular HDFury, Dominic, and Claw.

I was very reluctant to open this can of worms since I have a first gen Vertex, and a jvcRS500, and it sounded like it would be a hassle and perhaps not pleasing in the end.

But after watching a few DV titles from the ATV4K, and seeing that my automation that switches between two different profiles/gammas on the JVC still works, and that the custom 2020 Edid triggers the right color space, and that the DV Version improves upon the signal from the ATV for DV titles, it feels even more like I’ll get another couple years out of this projector.

Great stuff!

---

Summary of what worked for me, for others who run across this. (I may have this slightly wrong so I will update and edit as necessary.)

Note that I have an RS500, and have a custom HDR curve set up by Chad that is optimized for HDR10 content with peaks of 1000 nits (or slightly more, maybe up to 1500). With HDR10 content I found that this is most pleasing. I'm using high lamp mode and getting a bit more than 100 nits on a large screen with full coverage of P3 within a REC2020 container. Since the RS500 has a broken HDR gamma, I'm using the Vertex to also remove HDR metadata.



First, this assumes you already have macros working AND that you know what user mode to invoke on the JVC for HDR content. In my case that is Mode 2.



Second, although it seems counter intuitive, the REC2020 SDR detection can ALSO be used to detect LLDV HDR. So I told the Vertex to trigger my HDR gamma the JVC when a REC2020 SDR signal is detected. (I don't recall why this works.)







Third, I'm using an ATV4K but suspect other LLDV capable devices also respond to seeing an EDID that asks for LLDV in a REC2020 container.

It goes into slot #10 on this screen.



You need to use a custom EDID if you want to use BT.2020 for LLDV (Mark Swift's BT.2020 LLDV EDID) -- which is what worked well for me. This tells the source device to send the color in a 2020 format, which is perfect for most sources and (most important) perfect for most displays, since that is usually how they handle HDR color.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1581851932

Here is a good step by step about what to do with that file:


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Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, the /filmcast, AV Rant.
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post #187 of 192 Old 06-07-2020, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Back to the story. 2015: This is when I gave the Triad dipole speakers a try.

These were state of the art surround speakers when the original Dolby Surround was the rage (that is the old 4 channel matrixed surround that was the theater standard from the late 70s into the 1990s) and still influencing home theater.

In that system you had a two channel source, and matrixed into that was a center channel and a SINGLE surround channel. Dipole was to make the surround diffuse. But it persisted as an option for small rooms to reduce directionality and hot spotting.....until folks realized that BIpole was a better way to solve that.

If these had been modifiable (like some Triad models were) into BIPOLE speakers I might still have them.
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My current setup.
Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, the /filmcast, AV Rant.
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post #188 of 192 Old 06-07-2020, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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At the end of this year it was time to think about upgrading from the RS20....to an RS500.
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My current setup.
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post #189 of 192 Old 06-07-2020, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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2016 was more speaker upgrades. All the way up to Triad GOLD LCR. Audyssey tried to bump them up.....and I eventually went with a Yamaha receiver. For my money, among the mass market "Japanese" brands, Yamaha has the best sound. Of course later to get ATMOS I would end up with a Marantz again, which was workable.....
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My current setup.
Recommended podcasts: The Next Picture Show, the /filmcast, AV Rant.
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post #190 of 192 Old 06-07-2020, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Reminder and caveat: I was able to do all this experimentation and buying of gear because I would buy it used, and sell it when I got something new to try. So for very little money, I was able to try lots of stuff in my room, live with it for a few months (or sometimes years) until something else seemed worth trying.

But it is not a process without hassle and some risk. Buying and selling used takes effort and time even when it works fine. And on occasion, it doesn't work well -- case in point, this first foray into trying direct radiating Triad Bronze LCR for surround duty. The speakers were significantly damaged in transit (I assume though I guess they might have been damaged before being shipped to me) and were missing the mounts.....and while in the end I got a full refund, it was a bit of a hassle.

No free lunch!
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post #191 of 192 Old 06-07-2020, 08:53 AM
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Nice summary of upgrade-itis!
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post #192 of 192 Old 06-07-2020, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxchaser View Post
Nice summary of upgrade-itis!
Right! Once I got comfortable with the second hand market, I opened a pandora's box and felt relatively safe (ie, it wasn't going to cost a lot of coin) to try whatever seemed interesting or useful. And it sort of became a self managing process, where when a certain quality was reached in one area, another area -- the weakest link --became the focus for a while.


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