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post #1 of 86 Old 02-09-2007, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I have been bouncing around from thread to thread for about a month now gathering as much info as possible. Thanks to everyone for all the great information and help. I am now at the point of starting to frame the cinema and need to dedicate my own thread for opinions and assistance. The name comes from a freind of mine who has been bugging me to finish the basement to create the man cave where we can slip away from the wife and kids during our long gaming sessions. The only problem is the cave part is more in theory than reality as the room is open to the rest of the basement as you can see from the plans.



Unfortunately due to space limitations and my wife's desire to keep the space open, the room is not isolated, but because the space is dedicated for the theater only, I think this is posted in the right section. I am currently working with Bpape for acoustical treatments. Here are some of the pictures from the last few weeks of prepratory work.

New Outside Entrance with precast stairs and Bilco Door






More to come!
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post #2 of 86 Old 02-09-2007, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Bathroom Rough In Work




Gas Line Moved



Water Heater Moved and placed in pan (It is 10 years old)



Grundfos Comfort System Installed



Miscellaneous Plumbing
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post #3 of 86 Old 02-09-2007, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the current state of the bathroom rough in.



I am now ready to start framing next week, but still have some design issues to work out. I am having difficulty visualizing how to work the walls on the left side of the cinema area as well as behind the theater seats especially as the longest length of contiguous wall is only about 5 feet. I was thinking to copy the royal cinema's "false" column design found here with one column and sconce centered along each wall section. The one change I would make is to make the overhang larger and bring the board further from the wall to allow for rope lighting behind. What do you guys think or do you have a better suggestion?



Here is a link to the sconce I like http://www.homedecorators.com/P/Wall...ass_Shade/450/
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post #4 of 86 Old 02-10-2007, 06:03 AM
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Hey Cherokee,

Looking good. Have a look at Buff Bakers layout since your basement is open. You can see all of the images of his beautiful open theater/bar area here:
Jeff's Theater

On the columns, would the rope light be on the same circuit as the sconces or different?

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post #5 of 86 Old 02-10-2007, 07:01 AM
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Has anybody considered going with one of those tankless water heaters as a space savings? They're supposed to be a money saver as well, but I'm just thinking about being able to reclaim space.

Well, this is assuming I had a basement.
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post #6 of 86 Old 02-10-2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegeek View Post

Has anybody considered going with one of those tankless water heaters as a space savings? They're supposed to be a money saver as well, but I'm just thinking about being able to reclaim space.

Well, this is assuming I had a basement.

I looked at them as a supplement to my tank so we wouldn't run out of hot water. I also had a friend look at one to replace his undersized water heater. In both cases I found that they were quite expensive. I can't recall exact figures, but here in the Denver area we were talking over $3000 for a tankless water heater installed. Part of this is the venting material which I think is a different product than you use for a regular water heater. I think you'd need to create a new vent exit from your space with this new material, and I think that's a large portion of the install cost.

-Ryan
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post #7 of 86 Old 02-10-2007, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkjack View Post

Hey Cherokee,

Looking good. Have a look at Buff Bakers layout since your basement is open. You can see all of the images of his beautiful open theater/bar area here:
Jeff's Theater

On the columns, would the rope light be on the same circuit as the sconces or different?

Thanks jikkjack,
Your theater is a real inspiration. I will check out Buffs for ideas as well. I just want that glow effect around the columns, so I was planning on putting the rope lights on their own circuit. All the dimmers in the basement are going to have the new Leviton Z-wave dimmers (that are supposed to release in a week) so I can control everything from my new Harmony 1000 remote. I might have to buy a $60 separate Z-wave light remote until Harmony gets the full programming done including the scene and activity based triggers. I will probably ultimately just end up finding the right level to ratio them with the sconces and then control together with scenes. It may be nice, however to leave them on ever so slightly when the movie is on, like a real theater. That is the beauty of making everything Z-wave compatible and then playing with it through programming.

We are really focusing heavily on using a lot of mood lighting. We did some work in our kitchen about a year ago tiling the backsplash and putting in dimmable hockey puck lighting. It turns out that the kitchen glows with this amazingly warm orange glow when on the lowest setting and just gets you in a great mood. As you come down the stairs in this design, we are knocking out the left side upper wall to open it up to the sitting room. We are also cutting in (3) shadow boxes with recess halogen lights directly in front where we will have this water wall in the center box.

Thanks to everyone for all the help and comments. This really makes doing a project like this so much more enjoyable and ultimately my Wife and Son get to benefit from a much nicer basement. I really appreciate everybody's time and help!!!
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post #8 of 86 Old 02-10-2007, 10:08 AM
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That looks great. My father and i did a very similar thing in his basement. Its a lot of fun doing those kinds of projects.
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post #9 of 86 Old 02-10-2007, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcveigh View Post

I looked at them as a supplement to my tank so we wouldn't run out of hot water. I also had a friend look at one to replace his undersized water heater. In both cases I found that they were quite expensive. I can't recall exact figures, but here in the Denver area we were talking over $3000 for a tankless water heater installed. Part of this is the venting material which I think is a different product than you use for a regular water heater. I think you'd need to create a new vent exit from your space with this new material, and I think that's a large portion of the install cost.

-Ryan

I looked hard at it as well. There are only a few brands that are any good. A lot of them suffer from control oscilations. It was going to be just about $3000 installed. I chose not to do it mostly as I would need put it in the same general area as my normal gas heater, and the pole was there anyway, so I really would not have gained much usable space. I also would have had to pay an arm and a leg for the stainless steel exhaust pipe. There is one major advantage though, as they are direct vent and take the entire water heater out of any calculations for confined space combustion air requirements. I have to have two 120 sq in vents in my wall to the furnace area to join it to the main room from a combustion air perspective. I still would not have enough air if I did not have my 6" fresh air pipe which is barely visible in my water heater pan picture above.

Hey my Harmony 1000 remote just came in from USPS as I was writing this post, I am really psyched now to fire it up.
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post #10 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are the newest rocks for my cave!

Harmony 1000 RF remote. I am still waiting on the RF Extender.


First impressions are amazing touch screen speed and accuracy. Fast IR signals. Software decent but still slightly crippled. Best high end cost to performance ratio if you can pick up for $380 like I did off of Ebay. I was extremely worried about how easy it was to channel surf and control my DTV HR20-700 DVR, but the speed and accuracy of the touchscreen really makes it a non issue. In many ways it is actually easier than the poor ergonomic design of my Harmony 880 remote I use upstairs.

I need to find a flexible mount solution (maybe a Universal PDA style car mount) so that I can mount it so it comes up in the front middle of the 3 theater chairs. If anybody can think of something or has already solved this problem I would love to hear from your.

I also picked up my Mitsubishi 1080p HC-5000 BL projector.


I chose the Mitsu for the extremenly low price I was able to pick it up for relative to the other new 1080p sets as well as the low sound level and unbelievable sharpness for gaming performance. I only fired it up so far in a make shift setup on my tan walls in my family room, but the picture is amazing with a PS3 feeding it a 1080p signal through HDMI.

I still need help soon with the wall design, but I purchased the sconce linked above this weekend as well. Now if I could only get my contractor in here to help me.
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post #11 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 05:16 AM
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Cherokee - looks great. My bathroom rough-in is to come, soon I hope. I put a similar device on my water tank. They forgot the pan though. Better than nothing.

On the tankless - two problems besides costs. 1. convenience - apparantly it takes a while to deliver warm water to the faucet. 2. sizing - I guess its hard to get them in sizes to handle many many applications running at once (e.g. dishwasher + laundry + shower). I think the efficiency of space and energy makes the appealing, but last time I looked those two issues made it not worth pursuing.
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post #12 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

Cherokee - looks great. My bathroom rough-in is to come, soon I hope. I put a similar device on my water tank. They forgot the pan though. Better than nothing.

On the tankless - two problems besides costs. 1. convenience - apparantly it takes a while to deliver warm water to the faucet. 2. sizing - I guess its hard to get them in sizes to handle many many applications running at once (e.g. dishwasher + laundry + shower). I think the efficiency of space and energy makes the appealing, but last time I looked those two issues made it not worth pursuing.

DC, See my other post on the heater issue. I would call them back and get them to put in the pan!!! It only takes less than 1 hour to cut the main feed pipes, raise up the heater on 3 blocks and stick the pan under there. If you are worried about spending too much more money, just limit them to 1 hour and finish doing the PVC piping yourself. Your condnsate line from your Furnace is inches from that heater. No sense dumping the contents of that heater onto the floor as 50 gallons could still do a lot of damage to carpeting, especially if you are on vacation or something. My heater is 10 years old and it is not a case of if, but simply when. I almost replaced it as part of this job, but figured I needed the cash for other things on the project.
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post #13 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 09:32 AM
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I have a tankless hot water heater. They are expensive, and do take about 30 seconds to run hot water. The idea is your not keeping 30, 40 gallons of water hot all the time. My gas bill is very cheap. I live in Colorado and my gas bill this winter has been average of $35 a month. Thermostat set at an average of 68. 2000sqft house.
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post #14 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
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DC, See my other post on the heater issue. I would call them back and get them to put in the pan!!! It only takes less than 1 hour to cut the main feed pipes, raise up the heater on 3 blocks and stick the pan under there. If you are worried about spending too much more money, just limit them to 1 hour and finish doing the PVC piping yourself. Your condnsate line from your Furnace is inches from that heater. No sense dumping the contents of that heater onto the floor as 50 gallons could still do a lot of damage to carpeting, especially if you are on vacation or something. My heater is 10 years old and it is not a case of if, but simply when. I almost replaced it as part of this job, but figured I needed the cash for other things on the project.


Actually the pan was supposed to be put in by my HVAC guys who were going to fabricate it. They messed up the delivery (there was a death in the family), so they are going to put it in afterwards. I had my doubts that they'd do it, but they say they will. My utilities aren't near my sump. The condensate is pumped out by small pump.

The jack-hammering I mentioned in the other thread is for an ejector pump and roughing in my bath. I have a lot going on these days!

Oh, and we are about 20-30 minutes from Fall River, just up Rte 24.
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post #15 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorton1 View Post

I have a tankless hot water heater. They are expensive, and do take about 30 seconds to run hot water. The idea is your not keeping 30, 40 gallons of water hot all the time. My gas bill is very cheap. I live in Colorado and my gas bill this winter has been average of $35 a month. Thermostat set at an average of 68. 2000sqft house.


30 seconds isn't bad at all. Are you on a geothermal heat pump or something to keep your bills so low?
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post #16 of 86 Old 02-11-2007, 02:52 PM
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No no geothermal heat pump, would be nice though . The builder i had build the house has won some awards for the most efficient homes in Colorado. Extra insulation above and beyond code, super efficient windows, tankless water heater etc.
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post #17 of 86 Old 02-12-2007, 03:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I really need some help with some suggestions for my walls to the right and left of the door into the storage area, as well as behind and right of (3) theater seats. Will columns work with separate acoustical panels framed in the middle under the sconces or are the areas just too small. What about covering the entire wall and doing Jason's "false column" trick? I really some suggestions from guys who have seen what looks best with this type of room.
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post #18 of 86 Old 02-12-2007, 04:47 AM
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Cherokee - BPape is the right person for that question for your acoustics. I did a quick mock-up of column placement for you on your original blueprint. I added a blue square for the room and columns are in red. Ignore the size of red, they are just for visualization. I believe the only faux (or floating column) you need is the back wall behind the seats. I would expose the other 3 columns like Jeff did here in his open basement design.

My only concern with your layout is the door on the left wall and equipment access makes it hard to add another column on that wall so you may be limited to 4 columns instead of 6.


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post #19 of 86 Old 02-12-2007, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Jason for the suggestions, Talking to Bryan more today, I think I am coming around to the fact that even false columns on the walls are probably not a good idea with such limited wall space. The current design from Bryan has me fabricating bass traps in the corners, which will basically take up 18" with trim of a wall that is only barely over 3'. I will probably need to go with 12" wide panels and use combinations of two on the larger walls with approximately 6" spacing and one on the smaller walls. I was thinking of making a nice square stained wood piece for behind the sconces, which would be generally centered between the two panels or directly over a single panel. I will probably use the thicker 2" panels.

Can somebody point me to a construction link where somebody else used 2" panels to see how they look? Hopefully somebody else has some good ideas to spruce up the look a bit.
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post #20 of 86 Old 02-20-2007, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is the latest update.

Finished basic framing and HVAC work. Ran surround sound an A/V cables. Electrical starts tomorrow. All acoustic treatments, bass trap materials ordered from Bpape. Cabinets and Granite Ordered. I am still waiting on the RF receiver for the Harmony 1000 remote control so I can pre-test the extension cable for the IR blaster so that it reaches my HC-5000 projector before I burry it in the ceiling. I also found a nice adjustable mount for the remote for use in a cup holder of the Theater seats. I also ordered a cinema restroom sconce from Ken at StargateCinema, thanks for hooking me up Ken!!! My sconce lights come in Friday. Here are the framing pics.

Look from the Theater into the wet bar area. 2 person bar area in front of door and 8' worth of Cherry cabinets with wine refrigerator and granite tops behind.


Refrigerator Area


Sitting Room which will have big L couch.


Back side of stairway looking from sitting room. Wall will be cut back to a half height knee wall with cap wood below ceiling to open up the stairwell to the sitting room. I ran a 35' HDMI cable to this area and will probably install a 42" or 47" plasma on the wall here. I do not want to spend a lot of money and saw a 47" 720p Vizio unit at Costco for $999, does anybody have this TV?


Shadow Light Boxes. Center box will have a water wall in it.
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post #21 of 86 Old 02-20-2007, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Continued.

Small Powder Room with Pedestal sink to right and toilet to left. Lighted Movie Poster Box will be on the left outside wall and specialty restroom sconce on the right.


Mini stage area for screen. 6 1/2" soffit with three recessed lights above. Speaker false wall is inside where framing is and will be built after drywall. Pipe on right is also inside right speaker area. Screen will be a Carada 106" I was actually standing directly behind where the 3 theater seats will be. I was thinking about putting the theater posts with red velvet rope behind the seats to add to the theater scenery since the seats stick out into the area anyway, what do you guys think?


Looking from the stage back at the area for the theater seats. You can see the pantry in the background


Looking from the bar area back into the Theater room with the unfinised area in the background. You can see the open ceiling where the rope lighting will go around infront of the soffits.


Utility Area


Looking back at powder room. Bass Trap in corner with built in A/V Rack on right.
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post #22 of 86 Old 02-20-2007, 04:02 PM
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Looks good, you're ahead of me (well, my guys).

Does your furnace have fresh air being fed in for combustion purposes, or need it?
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post #23 of 86 Old 02-20-2007, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

Looks good, you're ahead of me (well, my guys).

Does your furnace have fresh air being fed in for combustion purposes, or need it?

Yes to both. Look just to the right of the left door framing 2x4. That is a 6" make up air duct directly from outside. I have to put a 120 in2 duct top and bottom into this room to meet code and connect to the rest of the basement. At the end of the day, this was another of the major noise flanking paths that just proved too much to economically overcome to try to isolate the entire basement for noise. Instead I am doing only the basic things - 5/8" drywall on the ceiling, Insulation everywhere humanly possible, Air tight IC rated recessed lights that are sealed with acoustic caulk and solid core doors in strategic places.

I am not sure about being ahead of you, but we are darn close to each other. We need to communicate more if we find some primo sources for stuff. Have you decided on the model seats yet? I am torn between cost savings with the Studio Series and Quality with the Berklines. Can anybody comment on both seats? Are the Berklines worth twice the price?
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post #24 of 86 Old 03-04-2007, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is an update on the Mancave Cinema:

Well we are basically done all the electrical we can do at this point. What a mess we had to fix from the original builder. It turned out that the brother of the builder was a licenced electrical PE, so he was able to sign off on the drawings without inspectors every double checking things. He had the basement 15 amp lighting circuit feeding my garbage disposal in my kitchen, outlets upstairs as well as my Kitchen island. They even broke code by putting too many wires in a standard outlet receptical for the light and then running 12/2 wire out of the 15 A circuit up to my Kitchen Island just to make it look like it was properly on a 20 A circuit! Anyway, I think my contractor was about to kill me because I had 4 separate 3 way circuits in this basemnt as well as all the other lighting runs. He said at the end that he had as much wiring in this basement as he had installed in several homes.

My upstairs Dining room is also being used as a storage space for all the building materials, including lights, 703 fiberglass boxes, fabric, carada screen, etc.


Theater room with 2 recessed lights and stage rough in with thee recessed lights


Bathroom with lighted poster box with light switch activation on the left side of the door and a specialty cinema restroom sconce on the right side of the door above the 4 gang box.


Wet bar area with 2 recessed lights and 2 boxes to the left for the ceiling pendants over the bar counter


4 gang box which will have (4) Z-wave dimmers installed to control the lighting for the entire theater


Water Wall


Water wall goes at the bottom of the stairs in the center shadow box. The wall to the left in the stairs still has to be cut down to a half height railing wall


Next week we finish the bathroom lowered ceiling, rough in plumbing and exhaust fan. Frame bar area, cut out stair wall, etc. and then insulate. We should be ready for sheetrock in another week.

Dave
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post #25 of 86 Old 03-04-2007, 08:54 AM
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Holy cow. Awesome stuff going in the Cave! Question: Will you be able to control all of your A/V AND your lighting with the Harmony 1000 RF remote? All of your theater lighting will be on one Z-wave control? I'm new to this and just overwhelmed ... seems like an awesome idea, though.

Also, I would LOVE to eventually have that type of set up but can't afford it now ... what kind of special wiring or conduits should I put in to accomplish that (controlling everything with one remote)?
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post #26 of 86 Old 03-04-2007, 10:47 AM
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post #27 of 86 Old 03-05-2007, 02:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Holy cow. Awesome stuff going in the Cave! Question: Will you be able to control all of your A/V AND your lighting with the Harmony 1000 RF remote? All of your theater lighting will be on one Z-wave control? I'm new to this and just overwhelmed ... seems like an awesome idea, though.

Also, I would LOVE to eventually have that type of set up but can't afford it now ... what kind of special wiring or conduits should I put in to accomplish that (controlling everything with one remote)?

I purchased (5) Z-wave Dimmers and (1) Z-wave scene controller from Leviton that just released on Thursday. The dimmers work just like normal dimmers with preset memory etc. for local mechanical control, but they also all network together to get full scene control capability. The big question with the Z-wave is not the capability, but Harmony's programming on the 1000. At this point I expect to simply get crude control over the lights and scene controller. In the future I expect Harmony to allow scenes to be triggered in activities, so that you can for instance call up scene 2 when you pause a DVD. IMHO everything is still theory until I get it working later this month. To answer your other questions, no special wiring other than normal electrical wiring is necessary and yes it will control my entire A/V rack and lights. I elected to use RF for everything instead of IR so I purchased the Logitech RF extender.
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post #28 of 86 Old 03-05-2007, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Dave in case you didn't see it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020900084.html

LOL, Thanks Bigmouth I was laughing the entire article. This quote especially struck a nerve :

"Others wonder whether some men are reacting to a sense that women are too dominant in their home lives, with their puttering and decorating and desire to slap a doily, knickknack or family photo onto every inch of open tabletop"

My wife drives me crazy with all the damn crap she puts everywhere. I have told her repeatedly that my A/V equipment, TV, etc was off limits but she had to learn the hard way. She put some knick Knacks on my speakers once and I threw them away. She got pissed, but never did it again, lol.
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post #29 of 86 Old 03-05-2007, 04:37 AM
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Looking good man. Are you doing the drywall or contracting it out? If you are doing it yourself, I recommend using a new dust control mud they sell at HD. It is in a light grey container with blue lid. It applies better than standard mud and doesn't hang in the air like regular drywall mud when you go to sand it down.

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post #30 of 86 Old 03-05-2007, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I have a single contractor doing the basement. I am doing parts of it and doing all the design etc. A freind of mine who is a master plumber did all the plumbing. My next concern is to make sure it gets insulated fully, especially the ceiling to help with sound control. There are too many flanking paths to affordably soundproof the room, but I am just doing the basics. I will ask him if he has used that type of mud as that would certainly help the family a lot while they are sanding. I have another freind from high school who is an interior decorator. She is going to be doing a very nice faux finish paint job on the walls in the cinema area to make it really stand out, especially since I did not have enough wall space to go with columns and I decided to do the 2" thick acoustical panels on the wall. We need something to make it look special instead of looking like an audio recording room.
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