What I'd do differently next time. - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 1152 Old 05-31-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jag Gill View Post
Would you guys mind sharing pictures of the finished results or links to the build threads? Thanks.
Unfortunately my theater is currently a storage room with seats, sound and sight-lines carved out. It sounds great that way, btw, but doesn't look very good. No build thread...
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post #992 of 1152 Old 05-31-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jag Gill View Post
Would you guys mind sharing pictures of the finished results or links to the build threads? Thanks.
Hi JagGill. At the bottom of my posts there is a link "Hawaii Home Theater". If you click on that it should send you to my build thread. If that doesn't work please let me know. Otherwise here is a full link as well:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...-complete.html

Hopefully that works as well. If you have any questions about anything just post in the build thread and I'll be happy to respond. Have a great day.
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post #993 of 1152 Old 06-01-2016, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jgmac98 View Post
thanks Just Jim. I ran the power to the switch and then from the switch to the outlet, so I'm SOL, unless I leave the switch on all the time and get one of those wireless switch adapter things that plug into one outlet, I may do that in the future, but for now I like the look of the switch for the subs... purely a cosmetic thing (and if this is my biggest problem then I am doing pretty good I think).
You've made me think about the sub I'm putting in my kitchen seating area. Liking your idea of switching the sub off when not in use, I'm going to fish a 14/3 to the sub area for a split plug. But the switched sub power will run through a relay that will be activated by the power trigger (or in my case a power outlet) on the back of my receiver so that it will come on automatically when the receiver is turned on. Call me lazy.

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post #994 of 1152 Old 06-01-2016, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by just jim View Post
You've made me think about the sub I'm putting in my kitchen seating area. Liking your idea of switching the sub off when not in use, I'm going to fish a 14/3 to the sub area for a split plug. But the switched sub power will run through a relay that will be activated by the power trigger (or in my case a power outlet) on the back of my receiver so that it will come on automatically when the receiver is turned on. Call me lazy.


my original plan was to have it run off the back of my reciever as well, but my wife brought up a good idea about being able to turn off the subwoofers when our kids are trying to sleep while we watch a movie.
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post #995 of 1152 Old 06-01-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by jgmac98 View Post
my original plan was to have it run off the back of my reciever as well, but my wife brought up a good idea about being able to turn off the subwoofers when our kids are trying to sleep while we watch a movie.
Actually thought of that, as my daughter is above the kitchen and does complain about volume. She is 22 and should have moved out by now! But I digress.

The switch and relay will be in series.

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post #996 of 1152 Old 06-01-2016, 11:16 AM
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She is 22 and should have moved out by now!
I can recommend some demo discs that would encourage her to do just that.

Michael
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post #997 of 1152 Old 06-16-2016, 01:11 PM
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If you use RSIC (sound clips) and metal hat channel to de-couple your double drywall from your 2 x 4 walls, make sure that your drywall contractor knows WHERE to place drywall screws into the metal hat channel.<br><br>
Otherwise (as happened to me), installers will naturally try to put drywall screws where the 2 x 4s are, which means placing long screws will hit the front face of the RSIC clips, mechanically coupling the drywall to the 2 x 4s (and defeating the reason to use RSIC clips in the first place!!)
That's exactly why after talking to the local sheetrock guys working on the rest of the house, I told them to STAY OUT of the theater area and had Dennis send Steve and his crew. Might have cost more but definitely worth it!
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post #998 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 08:28 AM
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I wish I would have run larger conduit to the front of my HT. After trying to resolve a hum from my speakers caused by my subs being plugged into the rca outs of my processor I determined it went away when they were plugged into the same power strip as the processor. So I ran a long power cable through the conduit from the media cabinet to the sub in the front of the room. I spent about 3 hours trying to get that cable through my conduit, I had to pull out all my existing cables (3 speaker cables and 1 rca for the sub) then attach them all as one and push/pull it through the conduit. Unfortunately now, the cables are probably so twisted in there as they were run together that I can't pull one out without pulling all of them Such a PItA! If I had run a 2" or even better, 3" conduit I would have been fine, 1-1/2" just doesn't work so well.
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post #999 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by KanosWRX View Post
I wish I would have run larger conduit to the front of my HT. After trying to resolve a hum from my speakers caused by my subs being plugged into the rca outs of my processor I determined it went away when they were plugged into the same power strip as the processor. So I ran a long power cable through the conduit from the media cabinet to the sub in the front of the room. I spent about 3 hours trying to get that cable through my conduit, I had to pull out all my existing cables (3 speaker cables and 1 rca for the sub) then attach them all as one and push/pull it through the conduit. Unfortunately now, the cables are probably so twisted in there as they were run together that I can't pull one out without pulling all of them Such a PItA! If I had run a 2" or even better, 3" conduit I would have been fine, 1-1/2" just doesn't work so well.
FYI: Having low voltage and mains power in the same conduit is an electrical code violation. Same hold true in most, if not all, jurisdictions for when you combine low voltage terminations and mains switches or receptacles in the same wall-, floor- or ceiling-mounted junction box.
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post #1000 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by blafarm View Post
FYI: Having low voltage and mains power in the same conduit is an electrical code violation. Same hold true in most, if not all, jurisdictions for when you combine low voltage terminations and mains switches or receptacles in the same wall-, floor- or ceiling-mounted junction box.

Turns out the power cable wasn't needed after all.. So I just unplugged it on both ends for now, will pull it out one day when I need to run another cable as it isn't hurting or could cause any problems or anything now
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post #1001 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KanosWRX View Post
Turns out the power cable wasn't needed after all.. So I just unplugged it on both ends for now, will pull it out one day when I need to run another cable as it isn't hurting or could cause any problems or anything now
That's good news. I was not trying to be judgmental -- just wanted to help you to avoid a headache if you were inspected during construction, or during a future property sale.
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post #1002 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 02:59 PM
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That's good news. I was not trying to be judgmental -- just wanted to help you to avoid a headache if you were inspected during construction, or during a future property sale.
Actually I spoke to soon, it turns out I still get a very small hum from my front heights when the sub is powered by a different outlet then the Processors . So I am still using the power through the conduit right now. It's such a minor hum though I'll keep looking for other ways to eliminate it. For now I know what's in my walls and don't plan on going through and cutting anywhere near there . But I'll know for future reference. I don't think it's going to hurt anything right now anyways.
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post #1003 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 03:21 PM
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The issue has less to do with you "cutting anywhere near there" -- and more to do with the fact that low voltage wire is simply not made for high voltage transmission. Also, the devices that low voltage wire interconnects are not protected against problems that might occur if they are fed high voltage at their inputs, as they are simply not designed for that (think: audio, video, alarm, control, network) that have the following risk (fire, electrical shock, fried equipment).

Unfortunately, it is impossible to know if you even slightly damaged any of the insulation on the wires you pulled. You mentioned how hard it was and how twisted the bundle became. That observation represents a point of concern.

And then there's the junction box and terminations, where damaged and/or exposed conductors can also happen. In some cases and jurisdictions, low and high voltage can coexist in the same junction box if they are physically partitioned

However, getting back to your principal problem, running AC with DC in parallel is a surefire way to introduce noise into any DC signal, whether it be analog of digital. To avoid noise and interference, AC and DC should never be run parallel and, if necessary, should only cross at 90 degrees.
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post #1004 of 1152 Old 06-17-2016, 04:57 PM
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Code and safety issues aside (which frankly are not easy to ignore), you might run a simple test where you run a separate extension cord, and separate audio cables, to your required destination -- such that their paths are no where near each other.

And if, for some reason, they absolutely must cross paths, do so at a 90 degree angle. That will tell you if you have a fundamental hum or ground loop problem -- or if the noise is a product of the wires in your conduit running parallel to each other.

You might also try lifting the ground on one or more devices that have a 3-prong grounded power cables. Ground lifters look like this:

http://www.cctvforum.com/images/impo...1/172017_1.jpg

Also, make sure ALL of your components are powered by the same electrical circuit in your breaker box. If they are not, use extension cords, if possible, to temporarily migrate ALL components (audio, video, network, etc.) to the same breaker and see if your noise goes away.

These are just the beginning steps in troubleshooting a problem that has plagued even the most carefully designed systems.
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post #1005 of 1152 Old 06-18-2016, 07:59 PM
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So in my HT I have my wall sockets going to a 15amp circuit, everything else is on the two 20amps next to the media cabinet. I have found the only way to eliminate any hum is to have the two subs plugged into the same outlets as the pre-amp. I think the only true fix would be to have an electrician re-wire it so the wall sockets are on the same circuit as the 20 amp circuit that pre-amp is on. Then that should solve the issue as I found when I run the long extension cable from the 20amp outlet to the subs there is no hum. It's only when they are on the separate 15amp that I get the light hum. In my research I read in the breaker panel circuits are wired in and out of phase, usually every other one is a different phase 0-180. I am wondering if the 15 amp is one phase and the 20 amp another.

BTW the cheater plugs didn't help either.

As for the wires in the conduit, it actually wasn't hard to pull them through when I ran all 5 at once at the end. Granted once they were pulled through it would be very difficult to pull any one out now. I just have to pull them all back out if I want to run anything different.. not a big deal knowing what I know now. The speaker wires are all CL2 rated in-wall speaker wires, so I am not to worried about them. And I get no hum with them being next to the very heavy gauge AC wire I ran with them, everything is silent finally.

"Also, make sure ALL of your components are powered by the same electrical circuit in your breaker box. If they are not, use extension cords, if possible, to temporarily migrate ALL components (audio, video, network, etc.) to the same breaker and see if your noise goes away."

So that is exactly what I needed to do/and did to resolve the issue. So that the subs could be powered by the same circuit as my other equipment. Just that the 50ft cable for now is in my conduit in the walls.. granted not ideal.. but until I can get an electrician to re-wire my HT wall sockets to the same 20amp circuit as my media closet (If indeed that is the final fix) this is the best option for me.

"and more to do with the fact that low voltage wire is simply not made for high voltage transmission"

Maybe I didn't word something right.. I am not running any high voltage current over a low voltage line, nothing like that.

So I guess the lesson learned for this thread would be.. Make sure all your subs are on the same circuit that your AVR/Pre-Amp is on. If not make sure they are in the same phase state in the breaker box.

Last edited by KanosWRX; 06-18-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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post #1006 of 1152 Old 06-19-2016, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by KanosWRX View Post
"and more to do with the fact that low voltage wire is simply not made for high voltage transmission"

Maybe I didn't word something right.. I am not running any high voltage current over a low voltage line, nothing like that.
I understood that you were not running high voltage through low voltage wiring. However, if insulation is damaged during wire pulls, high voltage can make its way to low voltage wiring and then you have a really big problem (as stated in my previous emails).

Glad you migrated the gear to the same circuit. That is a very common problem and, in the big scheme of things, not that hard to fix (unless, of course, you have maxed-out the load on the circuit).

My advice: Be as careful as you can with these matters. Play by the rules. Use a licensed electrician. Your health and that of your family (electric shock), your property (fire), and your AV gear (fried) are all at stake. And your insurance company will reject any and all claims when they find a code violation like that -- and they will find it.
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post #1007 of 1152 Old 06-19-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by KanosWRX View Post
I wish I would have run larger conduit to the front of my HT. After trying to resolve a hum from my speakers caused by my subs being plugged into the rca outs of my processor I determined it went away when they were plugged into the same power strip as the processor. So I ran a long power cable through the conduit from the media cabinet to the sub in the front of the room. I spent about 3 hours trying to get that cable through my conduit, I had to pull out all my existing cables (3 speaker cables and 1 rca for the sub) then attach them all as one and push/pull it through the conduit. Unfortunately now, the cables are probably so twisted in there as they were run together that I can't pull one out without pulling all of them Such a PItA! If I had run a 2" or even better, 3" conduit I would have been fine, 1-1/2" just doesn't work so well.
I wonder if you had changed the power wire (that runs to the sub outlet) in the electrical panel to the next breaker position, if that would have solved the buzzing problem? This would shift the power from one phase to the other. For those who don't know, in a 240V panel, every second post or single breaker is on one phase and the alternate is on the second phase. This is why when you joining two consecutive posts (double breaker) you get 240 volts. Anyways, running a sub off the phase opposite to the amp running the other speakers can give a buzz (it did for me). When you said the buzz went away when you plugged it into the same power bar as the processor you are essentially doing the same thing (ensuring that both are on the same phase), but as has been pointed out, you now have line voltage in the same conduit as low voltage. It would be "simple" to switch wires in the panel to see if this works and if it does, just abandon the extension cord in the conduit (unplug it ).

Edit
OK If I had read the last couple of entries before offering my 2 cents, I would have realized that there got "there". The only thing that I would clarify is that any outlets to be used for A/V equipment should be dedicated. That is to say, they should not also feed anything else, especially with osculating power such as lights, motors or compressors (fridge...in the bar...) which create electrical noise.

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Last edited by just jim; 06-19-2016 at 12:05 PM. Reason: addition
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post #1008 of 1152 Old 06-20-2016, 07:30 AM
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So in my HT I have my wall sockets going to a 15amp circuit, everything else is on the two 20amps next to the media cabinet. I have found the only way to eliminate any hum is to have the two subs plugged into the same outlets as the pre-amp. I think the only true fix would be to have an electrician re-wire it so the wall sockets are on the same circuit as the 20 amp circuit that pre-amp is on.
No need to hire an electrician. Just swap out the breaker in your panel so that it is on the same phase as the 20 amp circuits. So if the 20 amps are on breakers 12 and 14, just move the 15 amp circuit to 16 or 10. (or put them all on the odd ranges) The breaker should be relatively easy to swap with another one that doesn't matter as much. (lights for example)

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post #1009 of 1152 Old 06-20-2016, 06:37 PM
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So tonight I took a look at my circuit breaker, all the circuits to the HT are on the right side, it goes from HT lights and wall sockets to another 15 amp, then to the left 20 amp socket in the media closet, then below that the right socket. So the HT lights and wall sockets should be in phase with the left media closet socket. So I tried plugging in all my equipment to that socket and plugging in the subs back into the wall sockets. The hum was still there tried all on the right and the hum was there . So I guess it's not a phase issue. I tried a isolator on my RCA cable, all it seemed to do is reduce the volume and as I turned it back up to a normal level the hum was still there. The only fix is to actually plug the Subs into either of the 20amp circuits in the media closet. And to throw another wrench into this, in my moving of things around now I am back to getting a hum in all my speakers when the hdmi cable is plugged in... I am out of ideas, any other thoughts? The only thing I can think of now is figure out how to put the wall sockets on the 20 amp circuit, don't even know if that's possible without tearing up walls. And the only way to fix the hdmi hum is a ground loop lifter . This just sucks.
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post #1010 of 1152 Old 06-20-2016, 07:24 PM
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It still sounds like a ground loop problem.
You may want to check your outlets with one of these:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Too...A&gclsrc=aw.ds
just to make sure the grounds are really grounded.
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #1011 of 1152 Old 06-20-2016, 08:30 PM
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I can recommend some demo discs that would encourage her to do just that.

Michael
As soon as my then 21 year old daughter began looking at apartments, I bought her a living room set and told her I'd pay for the Uhaul and drive it for her. Within 3 weeks, she was gone. Nearly 2 years later, still on her own. A little financial investment goes a long way.
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post #1012 of 1152 Old 06-21-2016, 05:46 AM
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It still sounds like a ground loop problem.
You may want to check your outlets with one of these:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Too...A&gclsrc=aw.ds
just to make sure the grounds are really grounded.
Michael
Did that one already everything was ok. But since this is getting off topic for this thread now, I started a new one over here, https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post44876129 I didn't want to clutter up this thread anymore, hope thats ok.
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post #1013 of 1152 Old 06-21-2016, 07:30 AM
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I would of, and will, anchor my diy screen frame/stand to the wall. I hung my new 138" AT screen yesterday. It felt very sturdy. We were upstairs and heard a loud crash downstairs...it had tipped over. What a disaster! I already had another replacement screen on the way for a couple reasons, so it could've been much worse, but I'm still shaken by it.
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post #1014 of 1152 Old 06-22-2016, 08:45 AM
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I would of, and will, anchor my diy screen frame/stand to the wall. I hung my new 138" AT screen yesterday. It felt very sturdy. We were upstairs and heard a loud crash downstairs...it had tipped over. What a disaster! I already had another replacement screen on the way for a couple reasons, so it could've been much worse, but I'm still shaken by it.
How was it originally held up before the crash?
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post #1015 of 1152 Old 06-22-2016, 09:26 AM
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How was it originally held up before the crash?
A freestanding frame made of 2X4's that I thought was very sturdy. I now have it secured to the wall studs.
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post #1016 of 1152 Old 06-22-2016, 12:06 PM
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As soon as my then 21 year old daughter began looking at apartments, I bought her a living room set and told her I'd pay for the Uhaul and drive it for her. Within 3 weeks, she was gone. Nearly 2 years later, still on her own. A little financial investment goes a long way.
Actually, she has an entire apartment of furniture and small appliances and everything else needed. Unfortunately, it is all in storage... in my house. Apartments in Toronto are out of sight for someone starting out in the teaching profession here. And I am already covering apartments for 2 others in University. But I hear ya!

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post #1017 of 1152 Old 06-25-2016, 08:43 AM
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What I'd do differently - not let the builder convince me to put the entrance at the rear of the room. Rear entry means I can't have two rows of recliners, even though I have a 21' room (designed around front row viewing distance). Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer if I'd held firm on side entry and changed the design of the rest of the house.
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post #1018 of 1152 Old 06-26-2016, 05:18 PM
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What I'd do differently - not let the builder convince me to put the entrance at the rear of the room. Rear entry means I can't have two rows of recliners, even though I have a 21' room (designed around front row viewing distance). Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer if I'd held firm on side entry and changed the design of the rest of the house.
I have a rear entrance, but its at the rear corner, still can fit a row of seats in the back.. how wide is your room? I guess if its less then 16' wide or so then I could see how that would be hard.
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post #1019 of 1152 Old 06-26-2016, 05:37 PM
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I have a rear entrance, but its at the rear corner, still can fit a row of seats in the back.. how wide is your room? I guess if its less then 16' wide or so then I could see how that would be hard.
Right at 16' wide, and door is dead center, 36" wide and opens into the room. Technically I could put recliners in the back, but they'd only have 2.5-3' clearance to the walls (see pics in my build thread here). I've walked that and its a bit too tight, and if they were reclined, there could be only 1' of clearance, which is nowhere near enough. I'll stick with a sofa which is fine, but darn I wish I had done side entry.
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post #1020 of 1152 Old 06-26-2016, 07:49 PM
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Right at 16' wide, and door is dead center, 36" wide and opens into the room. Technically I could put recliners in the back, but they'd only have 2.5-3' clearance to the walls (see pics in my build thread here). I've walked that and its a bit too tight, and if they were reclined, there could be only 1' of clearance, which is nowhere near enough. I'll stick with a sofa which is fine, but darn I wish I had done side entry.
Ah, I see, the door in the middle, yes, that would be a problem. We all learn something after our first build though.. only problem is not many get the opportunity to do it all over again. But that's why we have this thread to help others.
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