What I'd do differently next time. - Page 38 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 1152 Old 01-22-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bmackrell View Post
I wish I would have thought to isolate the bracing I installed between the joists in the ceiling for my projector mounting area. after all the sound proofing (double sheet rock w/Green Glue) there's now way to go back. When my family walks, or in the case of my kids, runs/jumps across the family room directly above the theater it shakes the projector. It's actually quite annoying.
Can you explain this a bit more on how you would have done it? I'm in the process of researching what to do/basic design and this one really caught my attention. That would be super annoying!

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post #1112 of 1152 Old 01-25-2018, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmackrell View Post
I wish I would have thought to isolate the bracing I installed between the joists in the ceiling for my projector mounting area. after all the sound proofing (double sheet rock w/Green Glue) there's now way to go back. When my family walks, or in the case of my kids, runs/jumps across the family room directly above the theater it shakes the projector. It's actually quite annoying.
I'm just starting my theater. I got the permit approved yesterday and I have the day off tomorrow to start putting up some walls. What would you have done to avoid this? My projector shakes all the time right now when my kids run across the floor or walk like elephants (this happens quite frequently).
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post #1113 of 1152 Old 01-26-2018, 07:03 AM
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You can either try additional bracing where the projector is going but you will still probably get vibrations passed through so trying to isolate that area from the surrounding joists might be best.

You'll have to research some of the construction threads and look for techniques and devices to isolate beams.

I would also suggest you run a large conduit to the area the project will be going for upgrade-ability and also apply a piece of plywood after isolating the area so you have lots of options when attaching the projector mount.

Good Luck,

BillMac
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post #1114 of 1152 Old 01-27-2018, 12:06 PM
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You can see how I decoupled in this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post49404961

However, if I had room I would have used new joists laying on top of the top plates of the walls but there wasn't space in the existing bay with the boxes for the ceiling speakers. It still gets some vibrations through though, so I'm not sure it was worth the effort.


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post #1115 of 1152 Old 01-27-2018, 03:51 PM
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I would ONLY use products that do NOT require special integration for control.

Amplifiers - 12v triggers or signal sensing triggers
Projector - 12v trigger input ideal
Motorized screens and shades - 12v trigger ideally (or a fixed screen so you don't even mess with this at all)

Basically, you end up with a lot more expensive control system once you have to go to control4/crestron/AMX etc. At least a system that can be handled with the new homekit/alexa/googlehome concepts is now helpful (if available).

Go ahead and do an IR repeater in the room since they cost so little. It is reliable and is generally cross compatible. If you can IR control your receiver, then you can have the receiver 12v trigger everything else in theory.

Think about this in product selection and life will be dramatically simpler and more reliable in your media room.

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post #1116 of 1152 Old 01-28-2018, 03:55 AM
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Next time I would skip all RGB lighting. In my eyes the result does not make the investment worth it with Z-Wave modules, trafos etc.
Not to mention setup time, error searches.

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post #1117 of 1152 Old 01-28-2018, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenne977 View Post
I'm just starting my theater. I got the permit approved yesterday and I have the day off tomorrow to start putting up some walls. What would you have done to avoid this? My projector shakes all the time right now when my kids run across the floor or walk like elephants (this happens quite frequently).
Basically, unless you have a concrete floor above, you need to isolate the projector from the joists above. If the floor joists run across the theater, and you have "X" bracing (2x2's in a X pattern which stiffen your floor. (You could substitute X bracing in these two space if you have solid bracing.)) figure out how big a piece of lumber that you could fit under the X and not touching (even when someone is jumping on the floor above) the bracing. Run two new joists in adjacent joist spaces and support them on beams or foundation at each end. Even 2 - 2x4's on edge would hold the weight of a projector on a 16' span. If you are building a wall within a wall, support them on the isolated wall. Bolts should go through the drywall (with enough room for the DW to move without touching the bolt. Fill the gap with green glue or acoustic seal.) to support the projector. The drywall, if it is screwed to joists, even via isolators, should not touch the projector joists

It really doesn't matter what kind of bracket or bracing you use for reinforcement, if the floor moves when you walk on it, the whole assembly, including the projector, will move with it.
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post #1118 of 1152 Old 01-28-2018, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
You can see how I decoupled in this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post49404961

However, if I had room I would have used new joists laying on top of the top plates of the walls but there wasn't space in the existing bay with the boxes for the ceiling speakers. It still gets some vibrations through though, so I'm not sure it was worth the effort.


How well does this work using the IB-3’s? Satisfied with the results?
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post #1119 of 1152 Old 01-28-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
How well does this work using the IB-3’s? Satisfied with the results?
Previously my mount was bolted into just one joist, and so although the IB clips given it some reduction in vibration, the source of vibrations is now two joists rather than one. They are less jolting, but if the kids jump directly above it does still vibrate. Maybe that's a good result, I was just hoping for better.

As Just Jim describes, if you can run two new joists just for the projector. That was my plan, I just didn't have the room in the joist bay I needed to use.

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post #1120 of 1152 Old 02-05-2018, 11:46 PM
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List of Posts 0-1119

Greetings,

Long time lurker (12 years), first time poster. I figured I would save some folks some time and make a list of the first 1119 posts of this thread. I'm sure there are misspelled words and some contradictions, but I tried to make the list similar to what was posted.

My most current laptop doesn't have word on it, so I included an old copy of word 1997-2004 and a pdf copy of it from my other laptop just to be on the safe side.

I hope it works and you all can enjoy, or at least save you some time.

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post #1121 of 1152 Old 02-22-2018, 03:36 PM
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Large screen sizes - > 135 inches diag

In many HT designs I have seen, I feel the screen sizes are restricted to under 100". Typically it looks like a large TV.
I use wall to project image of 135" and am planning to move the projector behind so that it can be 150-160". This is the size I believe where the height of my basement wall would be the limiting factor.

Is there any reason most designs stick to screen sizes under 100" in general?
Any drawbacks of going larger screen size?
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post #1122 of 1152 Old 02-24-2018, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCruz View Post
In many HT designs I have seen, I feel the screen sizes are restricted to under 100". Typically it looks like a large TV.

I use wall to project image of 135" and am planning to move the projector behind so that it can be 150-160". This is the size I believe where the height of my basement wall would be the limiting factor.



Is there any reason most designs stick to screen sizes under 100" in general?

Any drawbacks of going larger screen size?


The main issue with very large screens is distributing light over such a large area compromises significantly 4k HDR presentations. Sufficient light output is difficult enough on a 100” screen (especially compared to an LCD or even OLED). Viewing distance should also be considered.


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post #1123 of 1152 Old 02-27-2018, 06:24 AM
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What would I do different next time, so far only one thing....

Hold some money on the carpenter until you can visually inspect his work. Don't leave the money with your wife to give him at the end of the day before you see what he did.

At least this way, he can't say 'Good luck trying to fix it' if you still owe him money.
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post #1124 of 1152 Old 03-06-2018, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCruz View Post
In many HT designs I have seen, I feel the screen sizes are restricted to under 100". Typically it looks like a large TV.
I use wall to project image of 135" and am planning to move the projector behind so that it can be 150-160". This is the size I believe where the height of my basement wall would be the limiting factor.

Is there any reason most designs stick to screen sizes under 100" in general?
Any drawbacks of going larger screen size?
Lack of imagination comes to mind. If they aren't hardcore movie buffs (with a dedicated theater), many folks go small to be more multipurpose.

In the vein of full disclosure, my theater has a 142" 2.35:1 screen on a 13.5' wall.
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post #1125 of 1152 Old 03-07-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post
The main issue with very large screens is distributing light over such a large area compromises significantly 4k HDR presentations. Sufficient light output is difficult enough on a 100” screen (especially compared to an LCD or even OLED). Viewing distance should also be considered.


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I was thinking about projector images rather than LCD/OLED TVs.. Sure TVs would have a practical size and cost limit say beyond 80"
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post #1126 of 1152 Old 03-07-2018, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
There is a neat little trick to try to save as much ceiling height as possible. I am attaching a diagram. So instead of losing almost 2.5 - 3 inches just to clips and hat channel, with this method you only lose 1/2" over just putting 2 layers of drywall right on the ceiling joists. That 1/2" loss is well worth the soundproofing benefit to me.
Just out of curiosity, is there any advantage to hanging drywall on clips as opposed to putting a drop ceiling with Acoustic tiles?
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post #1127 of 1152 Old 03-07-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCruz View Post
Just out of curiosity, is there any advantage to hanging drywall on clips as opposed to putting a drop ceiling with Acoustic tiles?
What is your objective? Soundproofing? If so, then yes. Drop ceilings are terrible at sound proofing. You would be better off with a regular single layer of drywall than using drop ceiling tiles for sound proofing. Sure, there are some marketing materials out there that say that some places sell "soundproofing ceiling tiles," but I wouldn't believe it.

To soundproof, you need several things, mass (won't get that with ceiling tiles), decoupling (depending on how you are hanging things, this might be OK) absorption (mostly in-wall with insulation, but "acoustical drop ceiling tiles" might absorb some frequencies), damping, and as few holes/seams as possible (so many seams with drop ceilings). Throw in there that a lot of people have drop ceilings that rattle or tiles that vibrate when exposed to some home theater levels of bass and LFE.

The biggest advantage that a drop ceiling has is that you can run wires up there. That is really about it from a soundproofing perspective, and I would argue sound quality perspective *IF* it rattles and such. The acoustical drop ceiling panels can help with room acoustics to some degree, but usually they are only part of the solution there. Keeping sound in (and out) is soundproofing and you can have a greatly soundproofed room that does that well, but sounds terrible inside the room (acoustics). Treating the sound inside the room can benefit from a properly installed drop ceiling's panels, but you would get more bang for your buck with broadband acoustical absorption panels than the drop ceiling alone, and those panels can look pretty awesome and be cheap to add. Best of course is a fully measured and treated room with specific absorption and diffusion treatments, but if we are just putting non-measured treatments (like "acoustical drop ceiling panels") in the room, why not put something in that will treat a lot more frequencies, and look good too?

DIY Custom Printed Movie Poster (and other art) Acoustic Panels - CHEAP
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post #1128 of 1152 Old 03-09-2018, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
What is your objective? Soundproofing? If so, then yes. Drop ceilings are terrible at sound proofing. You would be better off with a regular single layer of drywall than using drop ceiling tiles for sound proofing. Sure, there are some marketing materials out there that say that some places sell "soundproofing ceiling tiles," but I wouldn't believe it.

To soundproof, you need several things, mass (won't get that with ceiling tiles), decoupling (depending on how you are hanging things, this might be OK) absorption (mostly in-wall with insulation, but "acoustical drop ceiling tiles" might absorb some frequencies), damping, and as few holes/seams as possible (so many seams with drop ceilings). Throw in there that a lot of people have drop ceilings that rattle or tiles that vibrate when exposed to some home theater levels of bass and LFE.

The biggest advantage that a drop ceiling has is that you can run wires up there. That is really about it from a soundproofing perspective, and I would argue sound quality perspective *IF* it rattles and such. The acoustical drop ceiling panels can help with room acoustics to some degree, but usually they are only part of the solution there. Keeping sound in (and out) is soundproofing and you can have a greatly soundproofed room that does that well, but sounds terrible inside the room (acoustics). Treating the sound inside the room can benefit from a properly installed drop ceiling's panels, but you would get more bang for your buck with broadband acoustical absorption panels than the drop ceiling alone, and those panels can look pretty awesome and be cheap to add. Best of course is a fully measured and treated room with specific absorption and diffusion treatments, but if we are just putting non-measured treatments (like "acoustical drop ceiling panels") in the room, why not put something in that will treat a lot more frequencies, and look good too?

DIY Custom Printed Movie Poster (and other art) Acoustic Panels - CHEAP
This is very good info, I was under the impression that tiles are better. Thanks for such nice detailed response.
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post #1129 of 1152 Old 03-15-2018, 04:01 AM
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I would have picked a different room to use, having a very narrow curved staircase to get up as well as windows on all 4 walls made things interesting.

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post #1130 of 1152 Old 03-15-2018, 05:29 AM
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Door(s), buy them. I was ambitious and added a sheet of MDF to each of two doors. Very time consuming and expensive.
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post #1131 of 1152 Old 03-15-2018, 09:17 AM
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Doors: Do have them prepainted, even the multiple layers MDF variety.
Do not try to get a nice finish after they are hung on the frame...
Same for the border trim. So much easier to paint beforehand and not do it attached to the frame.

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post #1132 of 1152 Old 05-31-2018, 11:03 AM
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I would redo my theater with the below, me watching movies only.

1.Sound Proof to the maximum.
2.Better Gauge speaker wires (10/12 AWG, mine runs on 16AWG) room size is 20.5LX12.5WX7.7H
3.Subwoofers better buy the biggest you can, of course the $$ (I have a placed an order for 18", presently running on dual 12" subs).
4.Dedictaed 20AMP power lines everywhere you can think off (Sub-woofers, Racks)
5.Theaters seats try them before you buy them.
6.Automated screen masking
7.In the excitement to get theater finished do not rush into finishing theater.
8.Trust the experts but verify.
9.Anything in your field of vision like scones/reflective materials will distract you.
10.Learn REW or get some expert from AVS to do it for you.
11.Run conduits for speaker area and overhead and everywhere you can think of

Most of the items has been documented in this post.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...l#post55641388

I found AVS members to be extremely knowledgeable than the dealers/installers I have came across.

The journey continues to build a perfect theater .
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post #1133 of 1152 Old 06-17-2018, 07:29 AM
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I am installing a screen wall in front of our theater room and I am struggling with the decision to add in wall speakers vs. floorstanding. I also want to know how people install subwoofers in front screen walls. I understand the "box in a box" thing is a bad idea, so what do people do for subs in a screen wall? Is there a resource on this topic I am missing?
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post #1134 of 1152 Old 06-18-2018, 03:07 AM
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Wrong thread.
This is about what you screwed up and would do differently in your next build.

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post #1135 of 1152 Old 06-18-2018, 08:11 AM
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My apologies. Thank you.
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post #1136 of 1152 Old 06-18-2018, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Iwanthd View Post
I am installing a screen wall in front of our theater room and I am struggling with the decision to add in wall speakers vs. floorstanding. I also want to know how people install subwoofers in front screen walls. I understand the "box in a box" thing is a bad idea, so what do people do for subs in a screen wall? Is there a resource on this topic I am missing?

It is the wrong thread, but briefly...in-wall speakers generally involve some compromises as compared to non-in-walls (whether floorstanding or "bookshelf"), though there are some very good, and very expensive, in-walls out there these days. If you can fit traditional speakers behind your screen wall (and if you can fit a sub back there you can definitely fit speakers), you'll get way more for your money that way. A screen wall is usually mostly fabric stretched over a light frame, so putting a sub back there is unlikely to be a problem, assuming that's a viable room location for the sub (in other words, what matters is finding a location for the sub where it best excites room modes in a way that produces good bass at your listening position(s), not so much its interaction with the false screen wall).


If we continue this conversation here we're going to piss people off, so best to take this to another existing thread or start your own thread.
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post #1137 of 1152 Old 06-18-2018, 10:19 AM
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Understood. Thanks for your help!
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post #1138 of 1152 Old 06-19-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by avtvhdbass View Post
3.Subwoofers better buy the biggest you can, of course the $$ (I have a placed an order for 18", presently running on dual 12" subs).

Just a tip if you haven't considered it and have the room: use your 12's up front and place the 18" nearfield for couch shake duty. Crossover the highpass to a lower frequency, and try to level match the 12's to the 18 if the ability to localize it bothers you.


My brother runs his nearfield 16x 12's at full subwoofer range frequencies. Sounds amazing but I occasionally get distracted by the direction it's coming from. I prefer to get shotgun blasted from the direction of the screen and have only the low stuff right on top of me.

Quit readin my signature ya stupid signature reader.
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post #1139 of 1152 Old 07-16-2018, 07:50 AM
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I need your opinions. I have a media room with the front walls and ceiling painted flat black and I'm very happy with the color. But, behind the seating area I have walls that are painted a[gawd awful pumpkin orange and I'm wondering if it would be ok (reflection/viewing-wise) to paint over the orange with an off white or other relatively lighter color? Would that affect the viewing points in front of them negatively in any manner? Thanks.

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post #1140 of 1152 Old 07-16-2018, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsip View Post
I need your opinions. I have a media room with the front walls and ceiling painted flat black and I'm very happy with the color. But, behind the seating area I have walls that are painted a[gawd awful pumpkin orange and I'm wondering if it would be ok (reflection/viewing-wise) to paint over the orange with an off white or other relatively lighter color? Would that affect the viewing points in front of them negatively in any manner? Thanks.

I'm assuming you have a standard front projector, not a TV (or rear projection setup). If so, the blackest black your system can display is the color of your screen, when the room is as dark as it gets, minus any stray light that hits those areas, both directly from the projector and reflected from elsewhere. A white rear wall is going to reflect a lot of light. That said, a projector can look damn good even in a fully white room (that's otherwise light controlled). So it's really a question of how finicky you are about maximizing the black levels/contrast. And the dividends on your light control in your room will be higher for a higher-end, higher-contrast projector. If you are going to have some lighter walls, it seems to me the side walls may be better candidates for that than the back wall. Also, since you mentioned the possibility of colors other than off-white, be mindful that you can cast color onto your screen, e.g. a green or blue (or orange) can reflect a surprising amount of colored light in the direction of your screen.
Tsip and kagtha like this.

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